I'm sure that D&D as an anything will not be mothballed. It is the Gateway Drug of TTRPGs. I don't know anyone who has ever played one that hasn't touched D&D at least once in their lives. Also, is KRE-Os some knock-off Legos?
Sabbat campaigns are to VtM what "evil campaigns" are to D&D
there are people who do them, and do them well
and then there's a whole mess of people who use them to act out their worst possible behaviors and impulses in a roleplaying game setting and they're incredibly irritating and offputting to be around
To be fair, it's not like Camarilla campaigns can't let your utterly shit human beings act out their douchebag fantasies. But for some reason Sabbat campaigns seem like "permission" to those people.
In Vampire (I only know nWoD so...)
I'll just stop you there. oWoD doesn't pretend it has a two-tone color palette. It liberally slaps grey all around. Vampires aren't necessarily evil or bad. Werewolves aren't necessarily righteous or good.
Camarilla campaigns are theoretically about "good" vampires, who only indulge their inner animals to feed if they're poor and unfortunate enough not to have enough chattel to avoid hunting. The obligation to maintain the Masquerade is enormous for Camarilla vampires, so screwing up can be game over, whereas it's only a minor inconvenience in Sabbat campaigns.
So I mentioned my shadowrun player with the troll rolling 30 dice to resist damage, I'm prepping for the next game, figured I'd give the rundown here to make sure it's being done right.
Troll, natural body of 9
Adept, 2 levels of Improved Physical attribute for body
So that's 11 dice for body, 16 for ballistic armor, for a total of 27 dice. I think at the time he had the attribute boost, but he might have changed it, since I've been allowing changes while we're learning the system. Armor encumbrance wouldn't do anything since it's not double his body yet. Now, he only has 1 hand free, and gets -1 to all actions while holding the shield, but in terms of making a solid ball of resistance, seems like he's done a pretty good job.
Actually, its really easy to take out a troll. Did you know that stun damage is not rolled against Body? Its rolled against Willpower. So, go with non-lethal options that ignore armor. Knockout gasses, poisons, magic that stuns, etc. I had a character punch a troll out in one round once because I chose to do stun damage with my blows and the troll wasn't wearing armor.
Sabbat campaigns are to VtM what "evil campaigns" are to D&D
there are people who do them, and do them well
and then there's a whole mess of people who use them to act out their worst possible behaviors and impulses in a roleplaying game setting and they're incredibly irritating and offputting to be around
To be fair, it's not like Camarilla campaigns can't let your utterly shit human beings act out their douchebag fantasies. But for some reason Sabbat campaigns seem like "permission" to those people.
In Vampire (I only know nWoD so...)
I'll just stop you there. oWoD doesn't pretend it has a two-tone color palette. It liberally slaps grey all around. Vampires aren't necessarily evil or bad. Werewolves aren't necessarily righteous or good.
Camarilla campaigns are theoretically about "good" vampires, who only indulge their inner animals to feed if they're poor and unfortunate enough not to have enough chattel to avoid hunting. The obligation to maintain the Masquerade is enormous for Camarilla vampires, so screwing up can be game over, whereas it's only a minor inconvenience in Sabbat campaigns.
I could see the Masquerade being more than just a minor inconvenience. If a vampire made a Youtube video saying "Hey, I'm a Vampire" (surprisingly there are lots of them on Youtube atm), the Camarilla, or human hunters, or other supernaturals will hunt you down and kill you. Then someone will spam the video saying "Its all CGI, I've seen better on Twilight!" and people wouldn't give a damn anymore. Hell, even if you walked through the streets killing people out-right, the Camarilla would kill you, cause it to look like some mad crazy homeless guy, sweep the whole thing under the rug and you would be dead. While upholding the Masquerade is stupid to you, breaking it would be more trouble than its worth with the Camarilla floating around.
If I remember right, even the Sabbat mostly recognized the need for the Masquerade, and really only broke it when it was convenient. (i.e. would cause the local Cam to spend resources trying to cover it up.) Some fresh shovelheads might not quite get the need for secrecy, but I somehow got the impression that being around a couple of years (let alone decades) was enough to teach even the wildest Sabbat that the Masquerade was a necessity.
I also got the impression that (at the higher levels) the differences were largely superficial, and the Sabbat basically started out as a rebellion against powerful elders under the banner of getting rid of the Antedeluvians, but had mostly devolved into new, 'younger' elders running the show for their own ends.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Leper on
If my role play is hindered by rolling to play, then I'd prefer the rolls play right, instead of steam-rolling play-night.
Sabbat campaigns are to VtM what "evil campaigns" are to D&D
there are people who do them, and do them well
and then there's a whole mess of people who use them to act out their worst possible behaviors and impulses in a roleplaying game setting and they're incredibly irritating and offputting to be around
To be fair, it's not like Camarilla campaigns can't let your utterly shit human beings act out their douchebag fantasies. But for some reason Sabbat campaigns seem like "permission" to those people.
In Vampire (I only know nWoD so...)
I'll just stop you there. oWoD doesn't pretend it has a two-tone color palette. It liberally slaps grey all around. Vampires aren't necessarily evil or bad. Werewolves aren't necessarily righteous or good.
Camarilla campaigns are theoretically about "good" vampires, who only indulge their inner animals to feed if they're poor and unfortunate enough not to have enough chattel to avoid hunting. The obligation to maintain the Masquerade is enormous for Camarilla vampires, so screwing up can be game over, whereas it's only a minor inconvenience in Sabbat campaigns.
I could see the Masquerade being more than just a minor inconvenience. If a vampire made a Youtube video saying "Hey, I'm a Vampire" (surprisingly there are lots of them on Youtube atm), the Camarilla, or human hunters, or other supernaturals will hunt you down and kill you. Then someone will spam the video saying "Its all CGI, I've seen better on Twilight!" and people wouldn't give a damn anymore. Hell, even if you walked through the streets killing people out-right, the Camarilla would kill you, cause it to look like some mad crazy homeless guy, sweep the whole thing under the rug and you would be dead. While upholding the Masquerade is stupid to you, breaking it would be more trouble than its worth with the Camarilla floating around.
The Masquerade is prefaced on the idea that it's a very narrow barrier between humanity and the supernatural. It's definitely not designed to be played in an era of massive inter-connectivity and media saturation, where the idea of someone making a video declaring that they are a vampire is so passe as to be ridicule material. The game world is the early 1990s when CNN was new and novel. It's not well-equipped to deal with cell phones and attention whores on the internet.
None of oWoD is, to be honest, and that's not a bad thing.
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
It's possible I was misunderstood last page.
When I said the Sabbat approach to the Masquerade was "no witnesses," that should've been taken in the sense it is meant on TV procedurals and crime movies: kill said witnesses. Given it's the Sabbat, you've also got the option of gaslighting them, traumatizing the humanity out of them and Embracing them, fleshcrafting them if you're a Tzimisce, making some sort of war ghoul out of them in a more general way, or even more Camarilla-like methods to serve your grand plot to defeat the antediluvians.
Another thing that should've come up is that the Sabbat actively embraces Diablerie as a means of putting power in the hands of younger, angrier vampires more willing to use it.
The Camarilla, thematically, is about intergenerational conflict, preserving your humanity in spite of having become a monster, and fighting for influence under the new rules of your world.
The Sabbat is about violently clawing, manipulating, or otherwise maneuvering your way to the top of a writhing heap of violence and inhumanity in the name of destroying the even-bigger monsters that spawned you.
Sabbat campaigns are to VtM what "evil campaigns" are to D&D
there are people who do them, and do them well
and then there's a whole mess of people who use them to act out their worst possible behaviors and impulses in a roleplaying game setting and they're incredibly irritating and offputting to be around
To be fair, it's not like Camarilla campaigns can't let your utterly shit human beings act out their douchebag fantasies. But for some reason Sabbat campaigns seem like "permission" to those people.
In Vampire (I only know nWoD so...)
I'll just stop you there. oWoD doesn't pretend it has a two-tone color palette. It liberally slaps grey all around. Vampires aren't necessarily evil or bad. Werewolves aren't necessarily righteous or good.
Camarilla campaigns are theoretically about "good" vampires, who only indulge their inner animals to feed if they're poor and unfortunate enough not to have enough chattel to avoid hunting. The obligation to maintain the Masquerade is enormous for Camarilla vampires, so screwing up can be game over, whereas it's only a minor inconvenience in Sabbat campaigns.
I could see the Masquerade being more than just a minor inconvenience. If a vampire made a Youtube video saying "Hey, I'm a Vampire" (surprisingly there are lots of them on Youtube atm), the Camarilla, or human hunters, or other supernaturals will hunt you down and kill you. Then someone will spam the video saying "Its all CGI, I've seen better on Twilight!" and people wouldn't give a damn anymore. Hell, even if you walked through the streets killing people out-right, the Camarilla would kill you, cause it to look like some mad crazy homeless guy, sweep the whole thing under the rug and you would be dead. While upholding the Masquerade is stupid to you, breaking it would be more trouble than its worth with the Camarilla floating around.
The Masquerade is prefaced on the idea that it's a very narrow barrier between humanity and the supernatural. It's definitely not designed to be played in an era of massive inter-connectivity and media saturation, where the idea of someone making a video declaring that they are a vampire is so passe as to be ridicule material. The game world is the early 1990s when CNN was new and novel. It's not well-equipped to deal with cell phones and attention whores on the internet.
None of oWoD is, to be honest, and that's not a bad thing.
Its not, but it wouldn't take much to update your setting to deal with this. Hell, modern days might be easier for a vampire to be an out-of-the-coffin vampire thanks to Interview with a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, and Twilight.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Interview was reasonably influential on V:tM as a phenomenon; the recent TV vampire craze, not so much.
The internet and cellular phones, meanwhile, shoot somewhat of a giant hole in the notion of maintaining the Masquerade, as Ardent said. So does the slow transsubstantiation of Goth and Industrial into - being deliberately loose here - dubstep and Futurepop / EBM. You could write a Vampire game that talks about the 21st century - intergenerational conflict should be right up Gen Y's alley - but it'd be a pretty different game.
Sabbat campaigns are to VtM what "evil campaigns" are to D&D
there are people who do them, and do them well
and then there's a whole mess of people who use them to act out their worst possible behaviors and impulses in a roleplaying game setting and they're incredibly irritating and offputting to be around
To be fair, it's not like Camarilla campaigns can't let your utterly shit human beings act out their douchebag fantasies. But for some reason Sabbat campaigns seem like "permission" to those people.
In Vampire (I only know nWoD so...)
I'll just stop you there. oWoD doesn't pretend it has a two-tone color palette. It liberally slaps grey all around. Vampires aren't necessarily evil or bad. Werewolves aren't necessarily righteous or good.
Camarilla campaigns are theoretically about "good" vampires, who only indulge their inner animals to feed if they're poor and unfortunate enough not to have enough chattel to avoid hunting. The obligation to maintain the Masquerade is enormous for Camarilla vampires, so screwing up can be game over, whereas it's only a minor inconvenience in Sabbat campaigns.
I could see the Masquerade being more than just a minor inconvenience. If a vampire made a Youtube video saying "Hey, I'm a Vampire" (surprisingly there are lots of them on Youtube atm), the Camarilla, or human hunters, or other supernaturals will hunt you down and kill you. Then someone will spam the video saying "Its all CGI, I've seen better on Twilight!" and people wouldn't give a damn anymore. Hell, even if you walked through the streets killing people out-right, the Camarilla would kill you, cause it to look like some mad crazy homeless guy, sweep the whole thing under the rug and you would be dead. While upholding the Masquerade is stupid to you, breaking it would be more trouble than its worth with the Camarilla floating around.
The Masquerade is prefaced on the idea that it's a very narrow barrier between humanity and the supernatural. It's definitely not designed to be played in an era of massive inter-connectivity and media saturation, where the idea of someone making a video declaring that they are a vampire is so passe as to be ridicule material. The game world is the early 1990s when CNN was new and novel. It's not well-equipped to deal with cell phones and attention whores on the internet.
None of oWoD is, to be honest, and that's not a bad thing.
Its not, but it wouldn't take much to update your setting to deal with this. Hell, modern days might be easier for a vampire to be an out-of-the-coffin vampire thanks to Interview with a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, and Twilight.
Which completely removes the point. There's a reason VtR made Vampires weak pussies with ineffectual mind control and a baked-in need to hide.
I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s. Playing in that epoch is nostalgic for me. It's probably not for younger/older players.
I started playing RPGs in '08 but I'm a 90s kid. Back then, Interview and Dracula (92 version) where the only vampire movies I knew other than some random vampire in Tells from the Crypt. I still would be interested in playing a vampire in today's Big Brother world. On one hand, people see vampires less as boogymen and more as sex symbols. But with cell phones, cameras at every light, and Youtube, hiding would become harder, and that much more necessary as finding a vampire would be easier for hunters.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I'd be perfectly happy to play a surveillance-state cloud computing vampire, but then I wouldn't be playing Vampire: The Masquerade, in either setting or theme, which I think is the other part of Ardent's point. The mechanics could probably make most of the switch, though.
I do find it funny Shadowrun 2.0 era phones and other gear seems really babyish compared to what Smartphones do now
I know it's not decks but some of the stuf few have now makes the stuff in the books look lame
+1
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Its not, but it wouldn't take much to update your setting to deal with this. Hell, modern days might be easier for a vampire to be an out-of-the-coffin vampire thanks to Interview with a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, and Twilight.
Also consider Buffy. If you're following Seasons 8 and 9 in the comics,
vampires are becoming more accepted and public. Harmony has her own series of shows. Slayers are seen as more of a general enemy than vamps.
Heck, even True Blood is a way of updating V:tM. The Masquerade would be more about self-policing, pretending to be refined/above their animal nature, so that they can fit in/not be hunted.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Whereas, fwiw, 30 Days of Night is actually a pretty good depiction of the kind of thing the Sabbat pulls.
I didn't mean that vampires would be public (although I'm sure someone would like to push that far) but upholding the Masquerade would be harder and that much more important. A modern Vampire game might have to deal with new vampires doing stunts to out themselves. Hunters having better tools to seek out kindred and the Camarilla trying to say afloat with the Sabbat loving every minute of it. Twilight had a Masquerade going on in a public kind of world (which is why the Collens lived in Forks instead of NYC) but I'm sure there are vampires in the cities too.
The nWoD handles the secrecy issue in a couple of ways. For one, it's a genre conceit- you just have to accept it. It's not realistic, but neither are vampires. So there's that initial buy-in of a horror genre.
Second, it's an open secret. People know. The bulk of the population knows something is off about the world, knows that the shadows are darker than they should be, and deliberately ignores and doesn't talk about it out of social convention, fear, and subconscious knowledge that if they don't look too long into the darkness, it's more likely to pass them by. For the mortals who don't do that, there are a vast array of people connected to one or more elements of the supernatural that have genuine knowledge of it, as opposed to just belief (those people exist as well, just like the real world). There are hunters, occultists, conspirators, cultists, blood dolls, allies, lovers, family members, mercenaries specialized in paranormal security, in-the-know corporations, etc. Not to mention psychics, thaumaturges, ghouls, the ensorcelled, etc- the partly supernatural. So there's a tacit masquerade; even the regular ignorant population is complicit in some way. They don't know monsters exist because they don't want to know, because deep down they already know. They just don't acknowledge. Healthy, sane people don't want to know about the horror-story magical reality of the World of Darkness. It doesn't show up on CNN, but people in the World of Darkness have whispered conversations about the weirdly pale man up the block and the recent spree of disappearances. They know the eccentric old priest in their neighborhood appreciates tips about such things, and they know his phone number. The police don't have a vampire squad, but there's there's a detective with a tanked career everyone considers an inevitable suicide case who looks into the freaky shit even though they never get closed and his clearance is in the toilet. That sort of thing.
Third, there's the Masquerade- kept by all the supernatural factions, including hunter conspiracies, for various reasons. Despite the best efforts of the Guardians of the Veil, the Invictus, etc, the masquerade is leaky and porous. Vampires (especially new ones) tell mortals they trust; servants, family members, friends. Even though they aren't supposed to and it often gets the mortal or the vampire (or both) killed. The children and loved ones of werewolves will know something is going on, even if they aren't told the specifics. What really matters isn't so much outing that vampires exist- anyone dedicated enough can find that out. Network Zero will tell you all about it, and mystery cults abound throughout the WoD. The problem is getting made as a vampire; people finding out that YOU are one of them. That monsters exist and they're talking to one. That's when it gets dangerous. That's when you get the hunter response. Or the cultist response. Or the obsessed vampire stalker response. And so on. It's almost like a supercharged version of homosexuality in the 50s; people know it (the supernatural) exists. They don't talk about it except in hushed conversation. Getting found out is a problem for you. But the community exists; of both supporters and opponents.
Fourth, there's the God-Machine. It conceals itself, and in so doing often covers up the paranormal.
But, for genre conceit, social convention and conspiracy meddling reasons, wider society doesn't make vampires-as-a-community. Except, as Hunter establishes, virtually every segment of society has its hunters. They just operate in secret.
I'd be perfectly happy to play a surveillance-state cloud computing vampire, but then I wouldn't be playing Vampire: The Masquerade, in either setting or theme, which I think is the other part of Ardent's point. The mechanics could probably make most of the switch, though.
I'm open in my belief the Storyteller engine isn't that great, but it does handle adversity well. You could probably move oWoD to 2013 without a lot of hiccups, although I'm not sure Masquerade's metaplot would survive. It would be more like True Blood (based on oWoD, incidentally) than VtR, though.
Werewolves would make the jump easily. The Glass Walkers were sort of a lean forward to compensate for the growing importance of personal computers.
Mages can probably manage it, although the metaplot is probably dustbinned as a result.
I think Changelings and Hunters work so far outside the lines that the pressures of tech are obviated by their general fugue states.
I loved the storyteller system, but I only liked the games when they were about the personal trauma of the character and their attempts to hold on to humanity/sanity/reality/existence/whatever.
I didn't find the system to work well for superhero/villains, and I thought it was a waste of the wonderfully angst-ridden source material.
Man, I just spent way too long making an Edge of the Empire character.
I get how the character generation works just fine, but I labored over how to spend my XP in order to express mechanically the kind of character I wanted to role-play. And since it was a droid, I had a lot of XP.
I'd be perfectly happy to play a surveillance-state cloud computing vampire, but then I wouldn't be playing Vampire: The Masquerade, in either setting or theme, which I think is the other part of Ardent's point. The mechanics could probably make most of the switch, though.
I'm open in my belief the Storyteller engine isn't that great, but it does handle adversity well. You could probably move oWoD to 2013 without a lot of hiccups, although I'm not sure Masquerade's metaplot would survive. It would be more like True Blood (based on oWoD, incidentally) than VtR, though.
Werewolves would make the jump easily. The Glass Walkers were sort of a lean forward to compensate for the growing importance of personal computers.
Mages can probably manage it, although the metaplot is probably dustbinned as a result.
I think Changelings and Hunters work so far outside the lines that the pressures of tech are obviated by their general fugue states.
Whereas I think the 20-year period that's come out since they started releasing that stuff blows a giant hole in a lot of the non-mechanical end of Werewolf and Vampire, particularly. How do you interpret today's world as anything other than the Weaver completely ascendant and in charge? :P Weirdly, the Internet is great for the Changeling universe, by contrast.
Yeah, I think the only problem is people already have commitments on Saturdays. I'd try it in pbp, but my weekends are kinda spoken for. If I'm not gaming with friends on Saturday nights, I'm doing social stuff with my wife. Or enjoying a movie and some wine at home with her.
I'd be perfectly happy to play a surveillance-state cloud computing vampire, but then I wouldn't be playing Vampire: The Masquerade, in either setting or theme, which I think is the other part of Ardent's point. The mechanics could probably make most of the switch, though.
I'm open in my belief the Storyteller engine isn't that great, but it does handle adversity well. You could probably move oWoD to 2013 without a lot of hiccups, although I'm not sure Masquerade's metaplot would survive. It would be more like True Blood (based on oWoD, incidentally) than VtR, though.
Werewolves would make the jump easily. The Glass Walkers were sort of a lean forward to compensate for the growing importance of personal computers.
Mages can probably manage it, although the metaplot is probably dustbinned as a result.
I think Changelings and Hunters work so far outside the lines that the pressures of tech are obviated by their general fugue states.
Whereas I think the 20-year period that's come out since they started releasing that stuff blows a giant hole in a lot of the non-mechanical end of Werewolf and Vampire, particularly. How do you interpret today's world as anything other than the Weaver completely ascendant and in charge? :P Weirdly, the Internet is great for the Changeling universe, by contrast.
It's probably the optimism I'm widely known for talking.
I did not expect it to be this hard to start a game of Edge of the Empire in a non-pbp format.
What problems are you having?
Not being able to find players. :P
IRL game was a bust, and then there doesn't seem to be enough interest here given the time available.
Going to have to resort to other forums, it looks like.
Wait, what? Why don't you think there's enough interest here? I've been putting together the framework for a PbP game.
Well, yeah, a PbP would have plenty of interest, but I can't run one due to my schedule, but also I really want a live game. I haven't played in a live game in like.. 7 years.
Yeah, I think the only problem is people already have commitments on Saturdays. I'd try it in pbp, but my weekends are kinda spoken for. If I'm not gaming with friends on Saturday nights, I'm doing social stuff with my wife. Or enjoying a movie and some wine at home with her.
Problem is my IRL friend has Sunday/Monday off, but won't do either of those days so that he can spend them with his girlfriend.
Which makes the available times particularly limited. If it was just my schedule, I could do just about any night, but I'd really like to get him involved. Unfortunately, he may be a weakest link and I may just have to cut him out if he won't bend.
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Having not run a game of Delta Green in a very long time, I am really happy with the way both of my games are turning out. Especially the PbP, it's actually a pretty good game to run this way as I don't need to have every player in the same spot - so I can advance the plot on multiple different threads at once in many cases. The other good thing about PbP is that I have a nice long time to think about things and react to what the players want to do. So bringing in and remembering what elements I have bought in is actually pretty simple.
Also the fact I can put a big bold title in front of individual players narration of their action with the time really helps enforce the sense of impending dread in the game as well. I am going to have to find some way to get the same effect in my IRL game. I am thinking of having a clock on the table that I advance the time of, so they are always conscious of what the in game time actually is.
I like PbP because of much you talked about. I normally don't have stats made for my people until I introduce them to the game, but I had PbP because of the inherent lag between when people post. Mostly its my fault in Noir but some times Ill see its been two days and no one has responsed. But that's the nature of PbP.
Heya, too much Urban Fantasy in my life is making me want to play something.
But what are Urban Fantasy alternatives to NWOD?
I prefer something not too transgressive - I find it tiresome rather than shocking.
I suppose Dresden Files? Unknown Armies I know the name only?
Dresden Files RPG is good, although it's focused, understandably, around the bigger, badder denizens of the Second City; wizards, werewolves, vampires, God-touched knights, etc.
I used to play OWOD back in the day - how does the New compare anyway?
Cheers.
You're going to find a lot of varying opinions. I'm not a big fan, but it's more or less identically playable to oWoD with a different, updated bit of fluff to account for, you know, massive cultural upheaval.
If you aren't looking for transgressive, Unknown Armies would probably be an iffy choice. It has the potential to "go there" if the subject matter is handled too ham-handedly. As an example, there is a study of magic called pornomancy - sounds really salacious, right? Personally I think it's well-executed in that its purpose is to turn its practitioners into pathetic husks of humanity as they seek an enlightenment they'll arguably never find. But in the process it steps all over healthy sexual attitudes, not to mention its treatment of religious belief. Granted, that's just one type of magic, and I don't think its intended purpose is to shock for the sake of shocking. But the game is full of subject matter that can similarly be mishandled pretty easily. So if you're looking for lighter-fare urban fantasy, you may not find what you're looking for there.
That said, it's mechanically interesting, and I maintain that with an appropriate group it's a really good setting. It's easy enough to just not use the organizations or practices you don't want, but bleak and mature themes do abound in the setting.
Posts
D&D ker-o don't seem that bad from the really bad photos I have seen of it
Camarilla campaigns are theoretically about "good" vampires, who only indulge their inner animals to feed if they're poor and unfortunate enough not to have enough chattel to avoid hunting. The obligation to maintain the Masquerade is enormous for Camarilla vampires, so screwing up can be game over, whereas it's only a minor inconvenience in Sabbat campaigns.
Actually, its really easy to take out a troll. Did you know that stun damage is not rolled against Body? Its rolled against Willpower. So, go with non-lethal options that ignore armor. Knockout gasses, poisons, magic that stuns, etc. I had a character punch a troll out in one round once because I chose to do stun damage with my blows and the troll wasn't wearing armor.
I could see the Masquerade being more than just a minor inconvenience. If a vampire made a Youtube video saying "Hey, I'm a Vampire" (surprisingly there are lots of them on Youtube atm), the Camarilla, or human hunters, or other supernaturals will hunt you down and kill you. Then someone will spam the video saying "Its all CGI, I've seen better on Twilight!" and people wouldn't give a damn anymore. Hell, even if you walked through the streets killing people out-right, the Camarilla would kill you, cause it to look like some mad crazy homeless guy, sweep the whole thing under the rug and you would be dead. While upholding the Masquerade is stupid to you, breaking it would be more trouble than its worth with the Camarilla floating around.
I also got the impression that (at the higher levels) the differences were largely superficial, and the Sabbat basically started out as a rebellion against powerful elders under the banner of getting rid of the Antedeluvians, but had mostly devolved into new, 'younger' elders running the show for their own ends.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
None of oWoD is, to be honest, and that's not a bad thing.
When I said the Sabbat approach to the Masquerade was "no witnesses," that should've been taken in the sense it is meant on TV procedurals and crime movies: kill said witnesses. Given it's the Sabbat, you've also got the option of gaslighting them, traumatizing the humanity out of them and Embracing them, fleshcrafting them if you're a Tzimisce, making some sort of war ghoul out of them in a more general way, or even more Camarilla-like methods to serve your grand plot to defeat the antediluvians.
Another thing that should've come up is that the Sabbat actively embraces Diablerie as a means of putting power in the hands of younger, angrier vampires more willing to use it.
The Camarilla, thematically, is about intergenerational conflict, preserving your humanity in spite of having become a monster, and fighting for influence under the new rules of your world.
The Sabbat is about violently clawing, manipulating, or otherwise maneuvering your way to the top of a writhing heap of violence and inhumanity in the name of destroying the even-bigger monsters that spawned you.
Its not, but it wouldn't take much to update your setting to deal with this. Hell, modern days might be easier for a vampire to be an out-of-the-coffin vampire thanks to Interview with a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, and Twilight.
The internet and cellular phones, meanwhile, shoot somewhat of a giant hole in the notion of maintaining the Masquerade, as Ardent said. So does the slow transsubstantiation of Goth and Industrial into - being deliberately loose here - dubstep and Futurepop / EBM. You could write a Vampire game that talks about the 21st century - intergenerational conflict should be right up Gen Y's alley - but it'd be a pretty different game.
I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s. Playing in that epoch is nostalgic for me. It's probably not for younger/older players.
I know it's not decks but some of the stuf few have now makes the stuff in the books look lame
Also consider Buffy. If you're following Seasons 8 and 9 in the comics,
Heck, even True Blood is a way of updating V:tM. The Masquerade would be more about self-policing, pretending to be refined/above their animal nature, so that they can fit in/not be hunted.
Second, it's an open secret. People know. The bulk of the population knows something is off about the world, knows that the shadows are darker than they should be, and deliberately ignores and doesn't talk about it out of social convention, fear, and subconscious knowledge that if they don't look too long into the darkness, it's more likely to pass them by. For the mortals who don't do that, there are a vast array of people connected to one or more elements of the supernatural that have genuine knowledge of it, as opposed to just belief (those people exist as well, just like the real world). There are hunters, occultists, conspirators, cultists, blood dolls, allies, lovers, family members, mercenaries specialized in paranormal security, in-the-know corporations, etc. Not to mention psychics, thaumaturges, ghouls, the ensorcelled, etc- the partly supernatural. So there's a tacit masquerade; even the regular ignorant population is complicit in some way. They don't know monsters exist because they don't want to know, because deep down they already know. They just don't acknowledge. Healthy, sane people don't want to know about the horror-story magical reality of the World of Darkness. It doesn't show up on CNN, but people in the World of Darkness have whispered conversations about the weirdly pale man up the block and the recent spree of disappearances. They know the eccentric old priest in their neighborhood appreciates tips about such things, and they know his phone number. The police don't have a vampire squad, but there's there's a detective with a tanked career everyone considers an inevitable suicide case who looks into the freaky shit even though they never get closed and his clearance is in the toilet. That sort of thing.
Third, there's the Masquerade- kept by all the supernatural factions, including hunter conspiracies, for various reasons. Despite the best efforts of the Guardians of the Veil, the Invictus, etc, the masquerade is leaky and porous. Vampires (especially new ones) tell mortals they trust; servants, family members, friends. Even though they aren't supposed to and it often gets the mortal or the vampire (or both) killed. The children and loved ones of werewolves will know something is going on, even if they aren't told the specifics. What really matters isn't so much outing that vampires exist- anyone dedicated enough can find that out. Network Zero will tell you all about it, and mystery cults abound throughout the WoD. The problem is getting made as a vampire; people finding out that YOU are one of them. That monsters exist and they're talking to one. That's when it gets dangerous. That's when you get the hunter response. Or the cultist response. Or the obsessed vampire stalker response. And so on. It's almost like a supercharged version of homosexuality in the 50s; people know it (the supernatural) exists. They don't talk about it except in hushed conversation. Getting found out is a problem for you. But the community exists; of both supporters and opponents.
Fourth, there's the God-Machine. It conceals itself, and in so doing often covers up the paranormal.
But, for genre conceit, social convention and conspiracy meddling reasons, wider society doesn't make vampires-as-a-community. Except, as Hunter establishes, virtually every segment of society has its hunters. They just operate in secret.
Werewolves would make the jump easily. The Glass Walkers were sort of a lean forward to compensate for the growing importance of personal computers.
Mages can probably manage it, although the metaplot is probably dustbinned as a result.
I think Changelings and Hunters work so far outside the lines that the pressures of tech are obviated by their general fugue states.
I didn't find the system to work well for superhero/villains, and I thought it was a waste of the wonderfully angst-ridden source material.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Not being able to find players. :P
IRL game was a bust, and then there doesn't seem to be enough interest here given the time available.
Going to have to resort to other forums, it looks like.
I get how the character generation works just fine, but I labored over how to spend my XP in order to express mechanically the kind of character I wanted to role-play. And since it was a droid, I had a lot of XP.
I'm sorry, but I would love to play, but Saturdays are no-go for me. I work nights and I haven't had a Saturday off since I started working at McDs.
Whereas I think the 20-year period that's come out since they started releasing that stuff blows a giant hole in a lot of the non-mechanical end of Werewolf and Vampire, particularly. How do you interpret today's world as anything other than the Weaver completely ascendant and in charge? :P Weirdly, the Internet is great for the Changeling universe, by contrast.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
The world has changed.
The Apocalypse is basically at hand as far as Weres are concerned.
Yes, it's changed so that yet more of it is being exploited with technology.
Well, yeah, a PbP would have plenty of interest, but I can't run one due to my schedule, but also I really want a live game. I haven't played in a live game in like.. 7 years.
Problem is my IRL friend has Sunday/Monday off, but won't do either of those days so that he can spend them with his girlfriend.
Which makes the available times particularly limited. If it was just my schedule, I could do just about any night, but I'd really like to get him involved. Unfortunately, he may be a weakest link and I may just have to cut him out if he won't bend.
Also the fact I can put a big bold title in front of individual players narration of their action with the time really helps enforce the sense of impending dread in the game as well. I am going to have to find some way to get the same effect in my IRL game. I am thinking of having a clock on the table that I advance the time of, so they are always conscious of what the in game time actually is.
But what are Urban Fantasy alternatives to NWOD?
I prefer something not too transgressive - I find it tiresome rather than shocking.
I suppose Dresden Files? Unknown Armies I know the name only?
I used to play OWOD back in the day - how does the New compare anyway?
Cheers.
You're going to find a lot of varying opinions. I'm not a big fan, but it's more or less identically playable to oWoD with a different, updated bit of fluff to account for, you know, massive cultural upheaval.
That said, it's mechanically interesting, and I maintain that with an appropriate group it's a really good setting. It's easy enough to just not use the organizations or practices you don't want, but bleak and mature themes do abound in the setting.
Basically 3rd edition set in the modern world, with spellcasting dialed back to a 1-5 progression.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.