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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    wait what, only the top 6% is comfortable?

    That seems like nonsense

    How can you say you're comfortable if you don't have a 70 inch 4K TV?

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    tearing-down of suburban living always feels so mean and i kind of feel bad for suburbanites.

    but it's also funny and extremely true oh god.

    they're not bothered. they can't hear your mockery over their surround sound system in their capacious living room that they never have to turn down because of their neighbors.

    I really need a bigger TV for that room, It's hard to see map details from the couch sometimes.

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    stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    tearing-down of suburban living always feels so mean and i kind of feel bad for suburbanites.

    but it's also funny and extremely true oh god.

    That Gen-X fuck suburbia nihilism is somewhat disingenuous and I don't like to latch onto those kinds of arguments unless I'm in the mood to channel Kurt Cobain.

    What the book I linked does talk about,though, is that a lot of suburban people moving back to urban environments would make everyone's way of life much easier.

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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Most of the wood-boring beetles that are doing massive tree kills have been enabled by climate change leading to warmer temperatures allowing multiple generations per year instead of only one

    And then they kill a lot of trees, which are carbon sinks, and the decomposition turns them into a carbon source thus exacerbating climate change conditions

    lol

    suck it, polar bears!

    I N V E R T E B R A T E S U P R E M A C Y

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    Arch wrote: »
    Arch you need to tell the emerald ash borers that they're jerks they aren't listening to the higher primates I think they need an intervention from other insects

    I heard on the radio they're going to wipe out 90+% of the Ash trees in Wisconsin in a few decades

    lol sorry Wisconsin is fucked

    so is canada and colorado

    YAY FOR MONOCULTURE (a lot of the problems with wood-boring insects are due to shitty management practices early on that we can't really fix. also climate change)

    Wisconsin is fucked for lots of reasons

    in 30 years it's going to be a barren, strip mined toxic waste dump full of hordes of illiterate people working in the gas mines with a giant golden citadel bearing the moniker "Chamber of Commerce brought to you by Koch Industries" looms over the land and then matt damon will like attack them to steal their healthcare and robots and shit will fight and itll have a confusing ending

    override367 on
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    i mean, i definitely see the advantage of having 'your own' thing- being the final arbiter of a thing you care about is awesome! you never have to bow to someone else's caprice or whatever

    but it seems like being a cultural hermit is a horrible tradeoff for the benefit of personal ownership and domain

    unless you're a deeply antisocial person i guess

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    DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2013
    So, I realize i've kinda been going on about how insecure and crab fab I've been feeling in my new job (thanks for bein' there, or at the very least not telling me to shut my whiny dick hole)

    Well, two people from my old team just came over and were all "So sorry to bother you, Deeb. PLS HELP US. WE NEED UR SMARTNESS!"

    I was able to expertly able to answer all their questions and got big "THANK YOUS" and "WE MISS YOU SO MUCH".

    All of this occured while my boss was in the room, and his boss passed by and was in his office.

    I feel so swell. Those butts are STILL making me look good.
    *tear*

    Deebaser on
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    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i definitely see the advantage of having 'your own' thing- being the final arbiter of a thing you care about is awesome! you never have to bow to someone else's caprice or whatever

    but it seems like being a cultural hermit is a horrible tradeoff for the benefit of personal ownership and domain

    unless you're a deeply antisocial person i guess

    I also get the sense that never having to compromise or be accommodating of neighbors contributes to the Suburban Attitude.

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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    Explain to me how a giant company effectively carpooling their employees a net ill for society?

    Like emissions alone make it positive

    Also, like, if the bus catches on fire, that's at least 20 liberatarians gone LIKE THAT.

    It's further Brazilification of society. Eventually, you get to the point where the "two Americas" becomes physical and tangible.

    goddamn hedgie it's a major corporation providing mass transit to its employees. it has the effect of decreasing emissions/ pollution and curbing traffic, in addition to being net economically efficient.

    and this is brazilifying how? that people who work at google get some well-thought-out and net-beneficial perks?

    you are so dissatisfied with and nitpicking of everything that it's really difficult to take any of your objections seriously.

    You're missing the forest for the trees, Will. Google is setting things up so that their employees can live more or less completely in a Google bubble, free of intrusions from that pesky "real world". Facebook is going one step further with corporate dormitories.

    if this were actually true they'd do like MS does with their subsidized campus housing and discourage remote living.

    and in any case, who cares if they were trying to do this? i don't really understand your endgame here. google employees make a lot more money than other people and get good employment perks. money translates to nice things and perks are nice things.

    your basic problem is that rich people get nice things. trying to engineer situations where they are forced into sitting next to a homeless guy on a train does nothing except excite a sense of glee of really sticking to some abstract person you resent.

    (and they won't sit next to the homeless guy on the train. they'll just drive their SUV an hour and back to mountain view, exacerbating traffic and pollution and costing the city and state more money).

    This piece spells out my problem - we're creating a society where the top 1% lives very well, the next 4-5% is comfortable, the next 10% is clinging on, and everyone else is fucked. I don't have a problem with rich people having nice things - I have a problem with the rich creating an American Versailles.

    Edit: Here's another illustration of the problem.

    right, but that's not a problem caused by or indicated by corporate shuttles. that's a problem principally with taxes that are too low, redistributive effects that are too meagre, and social policies that are too stupid.

    like, sure, i get that you resent the rich, but taking every opportunity to put a thumb in their eyes doesn't address the problem at all.

    in fact, it's probably better to encourage things like these google buses, since it's a (rare) instance of a big corporate entity spending their own resources to ease their impact on public resources.

    Wqdwp8l.png
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    stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    My problem with kale chips is just let them speak for themselves.

    Salt them a little or something and maybe I'll give them a go. But when I go to trader joes and I see super nacho cheese kale chips I know that if Im looking for a healthy snack, Id rather eat something that doesn't taste gross, and if I want an unhealthy snack Ill just eat something else nacho cheese flavored that is actually really tasty.

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    TL DR wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    tearing-down of suburban living always feels so mean and i kind of feel bad for suburbanites.

    but it's also funny and extremely true oh god.

    the suburbs are awful

    other than being able to have your own garden

    GOS3y0N.jpg

    City living, dogg

    Not Visible: Giant FUCK YOU graffiti on left, unidentified corpse under mulch.

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    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    Also never ever being in real danger, I think, makes one more susceptible to media fear-mongering.

    When safety is a concrete 'this block but not the next block over', abstract threats like 'some guys somewhere might want to blow up a building in another city' just don't have as much impact.

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    It's weird how little of corporate America is pushing for policies to increase the wages at the bottom given the effect increased consumer spending would have on their profits

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    ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i definitely see the advantage of having 'your own' thing- being the final arbiter of a thing you care about is awesome! you never have to bow to someone else's caprice or whatever

    but it seems like being a cultural hermit is a horrible tradeoff for the benefit of personal ownership and domain

    unless you're a deeply antisocial person i guess

    i mean, i'm pretty antisocial at times

    but i also hate driving three miles to the grocery store to get $10 worth of groceries

    i'd much rather walk down the block

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i definitely see the advantage of having 'your own' thing- being the final arbiter of a thing you care about is awesome! you never have to bow to someone else's caprice or whatever

    but it seems like being a cultural hermit is a horrible tradeoff for the benefit of personal ownership and domain

    unless you're a deeply antisocial person i guess

    Turns out you can experience city culture and also live somewhere else, as long as you also have a car.

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    I'm reminded of a sociology lecture I got about how urban america was insular and nobody knew their neighbors and suburban america was all happy funtimes traditional values everyone counts on each other neighborhoods

    because colleges liberal indoctrination etc

    override367 on
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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    tearing-down of suburban living always feels so mean and i kind of feel bad for suburbanites.

    but it's also funny and extremely true oh god.

    they're not bothered. they can't hear your mockery over their surround sound system in their capacious living room that they never have to turn down because of their neighbors.

    I believe sacrificing intangible benefits for immediate, more tangible ones such as these is fine if you believe in autonomy of self being more important than health of community / health of government / etc

    It's something I disagree with strongly of course. I don't mock suburbanism; I think it is a worse and more inefficient usage of extremely precious materials; not only space and pollution-wise but in social capital and similar realms that make up a democracy

    I guess suburbs are more american than cities because every suburban lot is really a succinct summation of everything that is "Fuck you I got mine"

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    Explain to me how a giant company effectively carpooling their employees a net ill for society?

    Like emissions alone make it positive

    Also, like, if the bus catches on fire, that's at least 20 liberatarians gone LIKE THAT.

    It's further Brazilification of society. Eventually, you get to the point where the "two Americas" becomes physical and tangible.

    goddamn hedgie it's a major corporation providing mass transit to its employees. it has the effect of decreasing emissions/ pollution and curbing traffic, in addition to being net economically efficient.

    and this is brazilifying how? that people who work at google get some well-thought-out and net-beneficial perks?

    you are so dissatisfied with and nitpicking of everything that it's really difficult to take any of your objections seriously.

    You're missing the forest for the trees, Will. Google is setting things up so that their employees can live more or less completely in a Google bubble, free of intrusions from that pesky "real world". Facebook is going one step further with corporate dormitories.

    if this were actually true they'd do like MS does with their subsidized campus housing and discourage remote living.

    and in any case, who cares if they were trying to do this? i don't really understand your endgame here. google employees make a lot more money than other people and get good employment perks. money translates to nice things and perks are nice things.

    your basic problem is that rich people get nice things. trying to engineer situations where they are forced into sitting next to a homeless guy on a train does nothing except excite a sense of glee of really sticking to some abstract person you resent.

    (and they won't sit next to the homeless guy on the train. they'll just drive their SUV an hour and back to mountain view, exacerbating traffic and pollution and costing the city and state more money).

    This piece spells out my problem - we're creating a society where the top 1% lives very well, the next 4-5% is comfortable, the next 10% is clinging on, and everyone else is fucked. I don't have a problem with rich people having nice things - I have a problem with the rich creating an American Versailles.

    Edit: Here's another illustration of the problem.

    no, I don't think so

    I think the core problem is that you really really love the specific social bargains that have grown up over time to distribute material welfare downwards

    which, given the American Dream, are mostly instituted using a weird kind of passive-aggression rather than formal mechanisms of taxation and redistribution

    aRkpc.gif
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    stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    Arch you need to tell the emerald ash borers that they're jerks they aren't listening to the higher primates I think they need an intervention from other insects

    I heard on the radio they're going to wipe out 90+% of the Ash trees in Wisconsin in a few decades

    lol sorry Wisconsin is fucked

    so is canada and colorado

    YAY FOR MONOCULTURE (a lot of the problems with wood-boring insects are due to shitty management practices early on that we can't really fix. also climate change)

    Wisconsin is fucked for lots of reasons

    in 30 years it's going to be a barren, strip mined toxic waste dump full of hordes of illiterate people working in the gas mines with a giant golden citadel bearing the moniker "Chamber of Commerce brought to you by Koch Industries" looms over the land and then matt damon will like attack them to steal their healthcare and robots and shit will fight and itll have a confusing ending

    I see in the future Wisconson will adopt the "Upstate New York" economic policy.

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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    spool32 wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i definitely see the advantage of having 'your own' thing- being the final arbiter of a thing you care about is awesome! you never have to bow to someone else's caprice or whatever

    but it seems like being a cultural hermit is a horrible tradeoff for the benefit of personal ownership and domain

    unless you're a deeply antisocial person i guess

    Turns out you can experience city culture and also live somewhere else, as long as you also have a car.

    i'm not talking about driving in to see the theater or 'spend a night with the wife in the bohemian neighborhood'- i'm talking about immersion. there's a lot more to city living than just being able to go to big-name concerts.

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    LudiousLudious I just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered User regular
    my wife has been having meat guilt lately. She tried to go vegetarian for a while, but that's hard for a girl that doesn't like a lot of vegetables. I don't care either way. I like a lot of vegetarian dishes, but I love meat too. I guess it's like this for me:

    I live in an area where Wal-Mart rules the grocery landscape. I use the small grocery stores that scrape by for the products that are good and buy free-range and sustainable meat when I can. When and if we move to a bigger city I will buy exsclusively free-range and grass fed meats and will actually take the time to research the providers to make sure they're ACTUALLY ethical. As it stands, the best I can do is buy cage free eggs, sustainable fish, and free range chicken when the smaller grocery store here has it.

    As it is, I try to use every part of the animal when we buy meat. Even deli rotisserie chicken carcasses get used for soup. I am definitely against factory farming and all of that horrible shit. I am not against eating meat. I am against needless suffering, but my choices are regionally limited.

    That being said I support her and I have been trying to do my best to support her ethical dilemmas.

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    TehSlothTehSloth Hit Or Miss I Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i definitely see the advantage of having 'your own' thing- being the final arbiter of a thing you care about is awesome! you never have to bow to someone else's caprice or whatever

    but it seems like being a cultural hermit is a horrible tradeoff for the benefit of personal ownership and domain

    unless you're a deeply antisocial person i guess

    Turns out you can experience city culture and also live somewhere else, as long as you also have a car.

    i'm not talking about driving in to see the theater or 'spend a night with the wife in the bohemian neighborhood'- i'm talking about immersion. there's a lot more to city living than just being able to go to big-name concerts.

    But that's the important part really.

    FC: 1993-7778-8872 PSN: TehSloth Xbox: SlothTeh
    twitch.tv/tehsloth
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    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    tearing-down of suburban living always feels so mean and i kind of feel bad for suburbanites.

    but it's also funny and extremely true oh god.

    the suburbs are awful

    other than being able to have your own garden

    GOS3y0N.jpg

    City living, dogg

    Not Visible: Giant FUCK YOU graffiti on left, unidentified corpse under mulch.

    Eh. Up the hill I'd have to deal with college kids, and down the hill I'd have to deal with poors, but my street happens to be kind of an insulated dead-end.

    I did have my car broken into, although that's happened before and this time they actually caught the guy (addict, had the misfortune to bleed on another car he hit). Otherwise I love the neighborhood, the people next door are great, and the garden is a huge plus.

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    WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    It just blows my mind that there are so many people out there who are content having nothing unique about themselves or the place they live, and prefer a homogenous existence devoid of novelty. I mean, don't get me wrong, actually being unique is nigh-impossible in a world of 7 billion people, but it bugs me that they don't even struggle with it. This is why, for all their faults, I fundamentally respect where hipsters are coming from.

    Like, probably the most disgusting thing I've ever seen were the cruise ship ports in the Caribbean. You get off and every island greets you with a TGI Fridays. I mean, we're on Isla Roatan in Honduras; you walk maybe 10 minutes out of the port and you're walking among islanders living in squalor, and yet you get off the boat and you see a TGI Fridays, a collection of comforting suburban mainstays, and a couple novelty T-shirt shops. The people who got on that boat didn't actually travel anywhere, and they sure as hell didn't go to Honduras. They might as well have never left suburbia.

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    stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    It's weird how little of corporate America is pushing for policies to increase the wages at the bottom given the effect increased consumer spending would have on their profits

    But why wait for that money to come back when you can just siphon it out of their pay right now?

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    FrosteeyFrosteey Elaise 1521-2945-8940Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Holy shit you guys should stop arguing from two hyperbolic positions that will never agree

    Suburbs for life

    Never forgive

    Never forget

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    ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Arch wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Most of the wood-boring beetles that are doing massive tree kills have been enabled by climate change leading to warmer temperatures allowing multiple generations per year instead of only one

    And then they kill a lot of trees, which are carbon sinks, and the decomposition turns them into a carbon source thus exacerbating climate change conditions

    lol

    suck it, polar bears!

    I N V E R T E B R A T E S U P R E M A C Y

    They are kinda just better.

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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    In private suburban communities you can call the cops on people worse off than you and not have to think about them anymore

    or you can hassle and shoot black kids and claim it was self-defense

    or you can sit in your backyard and not think about the cancerous gasoline suckers marching their way throughout your streets

    it's an honestly great system of perpetuating stark differences and making it easier not to think about the state of society

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    I need to find someone rad to get some eggs from. The cage free stuff at the grocery... Well I'm not convinced it's really more humane...

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    shalmeloshalmelo sees no evil Registered User regular
    TL DR wrote: »
    Also never ever being in real danger, I think, makes one more susceptible to media fear-mongering.

    When safety is a concrete 'this block but not the next block over', abstract threats like 'some guys somewhere might want to blow up a building in another city' just don't have as much impact.

    It's so true. In my experience, the Americans most frightened by the specter of terrorism live almost exclusively in areas that terrorists would never ever target.

    Steam ID: Shalmelo || LoL: melo2boogaloo || tweets
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    GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    we are probably going to move to the suburbs

    city living kind of blows in some respects

    we want to have a driveway where friends can easily park when they visit, and enough room for a dog

    those 2 things (backyard and a driveway) are so insanely expensive in the city

    so we will move

    919UOwT.png
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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i definitely see the advantage of having 'your own' thing- being the final arbiter of a thing you care about is awesome! you never have to bow to someone else's caprice or whatever

    but it seems like being a cultural hermit is a horrible tradeoff for the benefit of personal ownership and domain

    unless you're a deeply antisocial person i guess

    Turns out you can experience city culture and also live somewhere else, as long as you also have a car.

    i'm not talking about driving in to see the theater or 'spend a night with the wife in the bohemian neighborhood'- i'm talking about immersion. there's a lot more to city living than just being able to go to big-name concerts.

    noise, shitty parking, high rent or high crime or both, lack of privacy, somebody pissing on my steps, no lawn to stand in while I shake my cane at people, forced to buy standard cane because sword-cane is illegal....

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    stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    I need to find someone rad to get some eggs from. The cage free stuff at the grocery... Well I'm not convinced it's really more humane...

    It was a ludicrously quick search but having dealt with services like this in produce, could you find something like this?

    http://organicstoyou.org/home/organic-groceries.html

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    TaminTamin Registered User regular
    @BSoB

    found the programmable remote

    now it'll turn the tv on and off, but the menu button just brings up the same info as hitting the display button. No degauss option.

    so I think we're just going to return it and find something else

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    LudiousLudious I just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered User regular
    you guys are turning me into a goddamned hippie

    turns out my wife's boss is in a relationship with a trans boy (female to male..I have that right, right?) anyway, to avoid too many personal details, I was in a situation where people were talking shit about her and I was definitely not allowed to say anything, and all I could think was you fucking cis shitlords

    and I wasn't even really being sarcastic.

    Between this and the god damned cage free eggs I might as well just go hang a hammer and sickle on my goddamned house so the rednecks will eat me first come apocalypse time.

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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Shitty parking is a symptom of having a car and living in a place where a car is necessary

    Hopefully someday Texas will get public transportation that white people won't sneer at

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Winky wrote: »
    It just blows my mind that there are so many people out there who are content having nothing unique about themselves or the place they live, and prefer a homogenous existence devoid of novelty. I mean, don't get me wrong, actually being unique is nigh-impossible in a world of 7 billion people, but it bugs me that they don't even struggle with it. This is why, for all their faults, I fundamentally respect where hipsters are coming from.

    Like, probably the most disgusting thing I've ever seen were the cruise ship ports in the Caribbean. You get off and every island greets you with a TGI Fridays. I mean, we're on Isla Roatan in Honduras; you walk maybe 10 minutes out of the port and you're walking among islanders living in squalor, and yet you get off the boat and you see a TGI Fridays, a collection of comforting suburban mainstays, and a couple novelty T-shirt shops. The people who got on that boat didn't actually travel anywhere, and they sure as hell didn't go to Honduras. They might as well have never left suburbia.

    to be fair- while noting that i agree with the general premise of what you're saying- it strikes me as a little goofy to say "...having nothing unique about themselves". a lot of our lives are the experiences we face, sure, but eating at applebee's doesn't mean you can't have interesting conversation there or love your family in specific, personal ways. i think it's a little bit affected that we define a rich, interesting life as one where we pass by street performers and hear many languages we don't know.

    i love the cultural potpourri of the big city, and i try to do new things especially when i am in new environments. but it's a pretty cynical view that people who don't do interesting things aren't having interesting or novel thoughts or lives.

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    skippydumptruckskippydumptruck begin again Registered User regular
    I would rather live downtown portland but it is too expensive : (

    as suburbs go beaverton is p good though

    lots of little local businesses nearby, the neighborhood I live in feels distinct, etc

    it would be nice to walk out my front door and be able to cross the street to a coffee shop in the morning instead of driving a couple of miles to one but

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    Explain to me how a giant company effectively carpooling their employees a net ill for society?

    Like emissions alone make it positive

    Also, like, if the bus catches on fire, that's at least 20 liberatarians gone LIKE THAT.

    It's further Brazilification of society. Eventually, you get to the point where the "two Americas" becomes physical and tangible.

    goddamn hedgie it's a major corporation providing mass transit to its employees. it has the effect of decreasing emissions/ pollution and curbing traffic, in addition to being net economically efficient.

    and this is brazilifying how? that people who work at google get some well-thought-out and net-beneficial perks?

    you are so dissatisfied with and nitpicking of everything that it's really difficult to take any of your objections seriously.

    You're missing the forest for the trees, Will. Google is setting things up so that their employees can live more or less completely in a Google bubble, free of intrusions from that pesky "real world". Facebook is going one step further with corporate dormitories.

    if this were actually true they'd do like MS does with their subsidized campus housing and discourage remote living.

    and in any case, who cares if they were trying to do this? i don't really understand your endgame here. google employees make a lot more money than other people and get good employment perks. money translates to nice things and perks are nice things.

    your basic problem is that rich people get nice things. trying to engineer situations where they are forced into sitting next to a homeless guy on a train does nothing except excite a sense of glee of really sticking to some abstract person you resent.

    (and they won't sit next to the homeless guy on the train. they'll just drive their SUV an hour and back to mountain view, exacerbating traffic and pollution and costing the city and state more money).

    This piece spells out my problem - we're creating a society where the top 1% lives very well, the next 4-5% is comfortable, the next 10% is clinging on, and everyone else is fucked. I don't have a problem with rich people having nice things - I have a problem with the rich creating an American Versailles.

    Edit: Here's another illustration of the problem.

    right, but that's not a problem caused by or indicated by corporate shuttles. that's a problem principally with taxes that are too low, redistributive effects that are too meagre, and social policies that are too stupid.

    like, sure, i get that you resent the rich, but taking every opportunity to put a thumb in their eyes doesn't address the problem at all.

    in fact, it's probably better to encourage things like these google buses, since it's a (rare) instance of a big corporate entity spending their own resources to ease their impact on public resources.

    I don't resent the rich, Will. What I do resent are the people focused on using their wealth to calcify the social structure on top, and who use their position to extract wealth from the rest of society with no benefit to anyone other than themselves.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    I totally understand and will probably myself subscribe to suburban living because it's just what happens now. I think a lot of virtues behind wanting to peel back the suburbs and go back to city living only work if culturally we decided to have suburban flight BACK into cities.

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