[chat] sage, please accept these humble props, may they be appropriately inoffensive, inclusive and positive in your [chat] temple of universal harmony
3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
NNID: Hakkekage
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
hi everyone sarksus has bad videogame opinions and i let our deep personal friendship cloud my judgment when i read his positive steam review of Banished (no I will not link it for you)
it's bad, or at the very least not good
don't make my mistake
I'm confused
is the review bad?
fuck gendered marketing
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
hi everyone sarksus has bad videogame opinions and i let our deep personal friendship cloud my judgment when i read his positive steam review of Banished (no I will not link it for you)
has your perspective towards subcultures generally or nerdy subcultures specifically shifted at all over the time you've spent here?
mine have really pretty dramatically. i'm not really sure if it's a function of just getting older or something else in my life or having to occasionally moderate some kind of problematic subcultures full of really poorly-socialized, resentful young people, or just something in my character.
it kind of seems like a few other of our older members have kind of drifted in this vague direction over time, but you seem to have kind of a distinct perspective.
I think that due to your position as a mod, you have to deal with some of the most egregious and aggressive aspects of those subcultures. I hear it from @jacobkosh, too.
To me, people who like anime are people who like anime. To you, people who like anime have a vocal minority contingent to whom it is TYRANNY WORSE THAN HITLER that we don't have a dedicated anime megathread, and who (I assume) will make sure you get reminded of that in your PM box on a regular basis. And isn't liking anime EXACTLY LIKE BEING GAY therefore if you don't let them have an anime megathread then YOU'RE JUST LIKE A HOMOPHOBE.
(Etc., insights)
I think that's going to wear you down. I think that's going to have a similar effect on you as, say, aggressive sexual harassment, except that you're being harassed over somebody else's characteristics (the harasser likes anime) rather than your own (you have a vagina). I think that makes it easier to (correctly) externalize the harassment as assholes being assholes.
But I think that kind of emotional wear and tear is extant even if it doesn't get manifested in the same way or break you down to the same degree. You simply can't have people hostile to you all the time without it souring you. That's why mods burn out. Cops have to deal with it, too, so do ER workers like @Atomika. Anybody in a position of authority.
But you asked about me, and I'm talking about you, which is unfair.
I have noticed that the subcultures for which I've voiced "Ew! Gross!" sentiments are the subcultures that I've either tried out and decided I didn't like (furries, for example) or feel like I might be easily stereotyped as (burners, for example). In that way, it's a form of posturing, trying to escape the stereotypes that I feel I am easily pigeonholed into. "Don't see me as a burner. Just see me as a dude who happens to like doing drugs at outdoor parties occasionally. Just... y'know... in the forest rather than the desert. Where I can take a shower the next morning."
Using furries as an example, I've done the "Ew! Furries!" thing here and elsewhere in the past. But I still end up friends with furries via other communities - mostly through Magic judges or BDSM - so I have to reconcile that I've been "Ew!" towards furries in the past with the fact that there are furries I know now who I like. The easy way to reconcile that is to say to myself, "Well, these furries aren't like those furries. These furries are not as gross." Which is true, but that opens up another question - what makes them nicer?
For me, the reasons I got grossed out by furries were issues of sexual misconduct and personal responsibility. It was people rampantly violating my and others' physical boundaries. It was people putting up sexually explicit furry art in locations where children (who were attracted by the cute cartoon animals) would see it. It was people refusing to take responsibility for stuff that they needed to do because "don't bother me I'm a cat now. meow!" (no, you're a dude who pushes a broom now because that's the chore you chose and I have dishes to wash.) And of course it was the simple hygiene issues because nerd gatherings smell bad.
So for me, it's not so much about being less judgmental, but adjusting the targets of my judgments. You'll see me be really angry towards these sorts of behaviors here. That's why I got really bristly at PantsB's post about how "all behavior is above even personal social, unspoken reproach is as irrational" because, well, duh. The things that grossed me out about furries aren't really unique to furries, and if somebody is a furry but does not engage in those reprehensible behaviors towards which there are very good objective reasons to be critical, then why should I disrespect that person?
I've gone through a similar process with things that I have never had any involvement in. My hatred towards organized sports had to do with my association with them with PE class (which was horrible), grade school bullying (which happened most frequently around sports & PE & recess time), and my problems with high school (which were particularly intense during homecoming and other times I was expected to show spirit towards institution I actively despised). But my girlfriend loves football and so do some of my close friends. For me to be okay around that and not be hostile, I had to identify and dismantle the structure that led to my hostility.
If I get a little testy about the bronies thing, it's not just that I enjoy the TV show. (I do.) It's that when that aforementioned girlfriend was feeling flight-anxiety on our last trip together, I put on MLP on the iPad to calm her down. It's that one of my best friends had a birthday party last weekend, where her favorite birthday gift was a Rainbow Dash sippy cup that she carried around with her all night. So when people go "Oh god, bronies!" I'm like, "Hey man, you're talking about people I love."
But while my personal connections to these subcultures lend this topic an emotional import, they don't define my position statement. I don't really hang out with any Homestuck fans, but I know there are Homestuck fans here, so if somebody is judgmental towards Homestuck fans for liking Homestuck (beyond a Ludious-style insult comic performance art ribbing) I recognize that it doesn't feel good. That's not the kind of community I want to be a part of.
Eventually I'm going to be 90 years old in a nursing home and none of the subcultures outside my four walls will make sense to me. There will be gatherings of people who love things that I can't even imagine right now. Maybe there will be people who like to dress up like vintage kitchen appliances and walk around going "whirrrrrrr!" I don't fucking know. But if I don't want to age into complete cultural irrelevancy, I have to make an effort between things that truly are worth shame versus things that I simply find alien. And that impetus to understand and accept grows, not shrinks, with age.
Let's get non-romantically bro-married k thx
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
I've tried to watch several series that have been recommended to me
and sometimes I'll stomach some of the cliches / chaff and sort of get into the story or characters
and then I'll reach a point in the series where the show says "LOL SEXUALIZED LOLI!" and I'm like
NOPE
NOPE
NOPE.
I see anime as like
if you took all the dumb cliches of old 90's videogames and the sort of weird groupthink and just turned that into a genre, almost entirely lacking self-awareness and devoted entirely to its own stereotypes and embracing them as a kind of comfort
and that makes me really glad that, despite the drama it can cause, the gaming industry is going through a painful and awkward and necessary revision and re-examining its underlying tropes and biases and stereotypes
Banished is pretty good, just pretty light on content (game is essentially over once you get a sustainable trading economy going)
maybe it's just not your kind of game?
sir i'll have you know i have a zillion hours logged in anno, dwarf fortress, gnomoria, and any kind of city builder/logistics/gardening game u can imagine
Banished is pretty good, just pretty light on content (game is essentially over once you get a sustainable trading economy going)
maybe it's just not your kind of game?
sir i'll have you know i have a zillion hours logged in anno, dwarf fortress, gnomoria, and any kind of city builder/logistics/gardening game u can imagine
hi everyone sarksus has bad videogame opinions and i let our deep personal friendship cloud my judgment when i read his positive steam review of Banished (no I will not link it for you)
it's bad, or at the very least not good
don't make my mistake
Wrong
hey i paid the twenty bucks for it, i'm more invested in it being good than n e one
but due to my strict code of ethics i have to "calls it like i sees it"
thanks for that! it was really insightful and well-thought out and interesting. i guess i should expect nothing less from you.
you know, it's funny: a couple of weeks ago i found myself kind of lecturing a friend of mine because he was being really nasty about religious people. i think i kind of ended up echoing that discussion in a conversation on here a few days ago with i think atomika. it basically involved a lot of your thoughts here - that it's important to try to engage people on a human level and find commonality than it is to see individuals as manifestations of a culture (or subculture).
and you know, i think it's true and at the same time it can be pretty difficult to do.
i used to live in a really evangelical-heavy part of west texas and i really resented the right-wing christians i found myself surrounded by. they were small-minded and hateful and bigoted and sanctimonious and proud of their ignorance, i thought, and every day i was greeted to another example that reinforced my reduction of who they were. it was hard for me to see them as anything but that.
but now, fifteen years hence, it's much easier for me to look back at them and pay more attention to the human needs that their religion fulfilled. it's easier to see the times where they were moved to generosity or patience or kindness by their religion. like, i don't think they're any less wrong, really. i'm just able to see them a little more completely, i guess.
part of it, oddly, was that a large part of letting go of my personal identification with subcultures and subversion involved letting go of a kind of reflexive cynicism that i had been nursing (elements of which are almost ubiquitous in subcultures) - the idea that "other people" were weak or stupid or amoral or cruel or worthy of contempt or whatever else. like, i realized that i genuinely liked most of the people i met, or at least admired some things about them, and if that were true then how could i hold this cynical worldview.
and i think that kind of ironically, to bring it back around, this was kind of what led to my personal dissociation with "nerd" subcultures - that living in that kind of self-imposed defensive crouch was a poor way to live and that i shouldn't really endorse it.
which i still believe! but probably it ends up overly coloring the way i engage with
you know
fuckin nerds
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LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
Huh, so the site of the Battle of Blair Mountain was removed from WV's historic registry list so it could be strip mined. That certainly is a thing.
jesus fuck
Yep.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
Attack on Titan: Suffers from weird emotional beats (exaggeration of facial expressions/reactions is an annoying anime trope), uneven pacing (STAHP FLASHBACKING AT CLIMACTIC MOMENTS), and ridiculously long monologues (as I mentioned in the thread shut up and do the thing)
But it is still a good show. And not for the genre of anime--just a good, entertaining show.
3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
NNID: Hakkekage
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LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
man fuck people who express the things they like to others in public, the nerve
you're supposed to be a bitter emotionless bundle of conformity like me who derives nothing from day to day existence
override367 on
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Ell, there are a lot of counterfactuals that annoy me but the idea that the war is prevented with a stronger Prime Minister (like say Churchill) just drives me up the fucking wall.
Which war?
WW2: Europe's Bogus Journey.
Hmm, I've been thinking about that lately. The way I see it, Chamberlain, who took (takes?) so much of the blame did almost everything right, keeping the lead-up to of WWI in mind.
Now, in hindsight that didn't work out, but I hardly can blame him for that.
Eh, he could have done a better job with the military build up and so forth. But wars happen due to complex social and political trends, not the actions of individual leaders. This tends to be one of the last bastions of Great Man Theory taught as history.
Americans also have a faulty view of the era. We didn't suffer nearly as much as Europe did in WWI. People like Chamberlain were ready to do just about anything to avoid another Great War.
Attack on Titan: Suffers from weird emotional beats (exaggeration of facial expressions/reactions is an annoying anime trope), uneven pacing (STAHP FLASHBACKING AT CLIMACTIC MOMENTS), and ridiculously long monologues (as I mentioned in the thread shut up and do the thing)
But it is still a good show. And not for the genre of anime--just a good, entertaining show.
maybe i should just give in and watch the show. i hated the manga but everyone says the show is good...
Attack on Titan: Suffers from weird emotional beats (exaggeration of facial expressions/reactions is an annoying anime trope), uneven pacing (STAHP FLASHBACKING AT CLIMACTIC MOMENTS), and ridiculously long monologues (as I mentioned in the thread shut up and do the thing)
But it is still a good show. And not for the genre of anime--just a good, entertaining show.
I don't really know about AoT.
I mean, I really like some of the characters and their quirks.
But then Titans happens and characters I'm invested in get eaten.
I know it's supposed to be dark but shit. Let some of the poor souls get to at least the end before eaten and subsequently vomited up.
Posts
[chat] sage, please accept these humble props, may they be appropriately inoffensive, inclusive and positive in your [chat] temple of universal harmony
NNID: Hakkekage
I'm confused
is the review bad?
Bebop is p great
excellent western space opera before Firefly, impressive music, and shrooms episode
NNID: Hakkekage
I hope this doesn't awaken anything in me
*searches for the disagree button*
i'm excited to see what content will be added and waiting patiently for it to be made for Best Computer
not sure why, but this bit reminded me of the mr. saturns from earthbound
ZOOM
Some of the best music in an anime too.
yes it is harder to see things when your opinions are bad
Wrong
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Mostly cause it's jazz
really catchy jazz
NNID: Hakkekage
it is not my fault that every single person who likes anime is a pedophile
i am just stating facts
don't shoot the messenger, as they say
i'm just telling you that they're all one IM away from winding up sitting across a table from Chris Hansen
it's not like i am saying anything that is in any way controversial, or could rationally be disagreed with
Let's get non-romantically bro-married k thx
Huh, so the site of the Battle of Blair Mountain was removed from WV's historic registry list so it could be strip mined. That certainly is a thing.
jesus fuck
and I actually find the vast majority of them to be absolutely horrible.
but shit saying all anime ever is bad means you don't like Hayao Miyazaki films and I like to believe everyone on this forum is at least human
I've tried to watch several series that have been recommended to me
and sometimes I'll stomach some of the cliches / chaff and sort of get into the story or characters
and then I'll reach a point in the series where the show says "LOL SEXUALIZED LOLI!" and I'm like
NOPE
NOPE
NOPE.
I see anime as like
if you took all the dumb cliches of old 90's videogames and the sort of weird groupthink and just turned that into a genre, almost entirely lacking self-awareness and devoted entirely to its own stereotypes and embracing them as a kind of comfort
and that makes me really glad that, despite the drama it can cause, the gaming industry is going through a painful and awkward and necessary revision and re-examining its underlying tropes and biases and stereotypes
sort of a "there but for the grace of God go we"
I crabbed too softly at work today.
@Geth
Are you human?
sir i'll have you know i have a zillion hours logged in anno, dwarf fortress, gnomoria, and any kind of city builder/logistics/gardening game u can imagine
On the black screen
sorry Cowboy Bebop is really good and technically anime
God is Geth
please
enlighten us mere mortals
hey i paid the twenty bucks for it, i'm more invested in it being good than n e one
but due to my strict code of ethics i have to "calls it like i sees it"
On the black screen
thanks for that! it was really insightful and well-thought out and interesting. i guess i should expect nothing less from you.
you know, it's funny: a couple of weeks ago i found myself kind of lecturing a friend of mine because he was being really nasty about religious people. i think i kind of ended up echoing that discussion in a conversation on here a few days ago with i think atomika. it basically involved a lot of your thoughts here - that it's important to try to engage people on a human level and find commonality than it is to see individuals as manifestations of a culture (or subculture).
and you know, i think it's true and at the same time it can be pretty difficult to do.
i used to live in a really evangelical-heavy part of west texas and i really resented the right-wing christians i found myself surrounded by. they were small-minded and hateful and bigoted and sanctimonious and proud of their ignorance, i thought, and every day i was greeted to another example that reinforced my reduction of who they were. it was hard for me to see them as anything but that.
but now, fifteen years hence, it's much easier for me to look back at them and pay more attention to the human needs that their religion fulfilled. it's easier to see the times where they were moved to generosity or patience or kindness by their religion. like, i don't think they're any less wrong, really. i'm just able to see them a little more completely, i guess.
part of it, oddly, was that a large part of letting go of my personal identification with subcultures and subversion involved letting go of a kind of reflexive cynicism that i had been nursing (elements of which are almost ubiquitous in subcultures) - the idea that "other people" were weak or stupid or amoral or cruel or worthy of contempt or whatever else. like, i realized that i genuinely liked most of the people i met, or at least admired some things about them, and if that were true then how could i hold this cynical worldview.
and i think that kind of ironically, to bring it back around, this was kind of what led to my personal dissociation with "nerd" subcultures - that living in that kind of self-imposed defensive crouch was a poor way to live and that i shouldn't really endorse it.
which i still believe! but probably it ends up overly coloring the way i engage with
you know
fuckin nerds
Yep.
But it is still a good show. And not for the genre of anime--just a good, entertaining show.
NNID: Hakkekage
my dick is currently preheated to 350 degrees
you're supposed to be a bitter emotionless bundle of conformity like me who derives nothing from day to day existence
Yeah I tend to go hide in bars if I have to spend any time in a car with my mother too.
cannot unsee
Americans also have a faulty view of the era. We didn't suffer nearly as much as Europe did in WWI. People like Chamberlain were ready to do just about anything to avoid another Great War.
maybe i should just give in and watch the show. i hated the manga but everyone says the show is good...
On the black screen
I don't really know about AoT.
I mean, I really like some of the characters and their quirks.
But then Titans happens and characters I'm invested in get eaten.
I know it's supposed to be dark but shit. Let some of the poor souls get to at least the end before eaten and subsequently vomited up.