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New Berserk Series!

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Posts

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Don't let it worry you man, pedants are a diamond dozen

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    XandarthXenogear_0001
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    I will cut you

  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular

    Griffith is in love with Guts. Period. End of discussion.

    It may not be Sexual lust, but for all intensive purposes, it was complete and total infatuation.

    This is something that gets debated a lot, and unlike most fan ships there is grounds here.

    But personally, I don't think Griffith's malicious obsession with Guts stemmed from a broken heart. See, instead of thinking of Griffith as a closet homosexual, I found it more appropriate to call him a closet dictator.

    He may have won over Guts and the other Hawk members with his charisma and friendly personality, but deep into his core he considers them his pawns rather than his brothers (and sister). Guts was to be his most trusted pawn, the one that would bring him victory in every battle and follow his commands without question.

    But when Guts chose to walk his own path and leave Griffith, the mere notion that one of his pawns would leave his side crushed him utterly. Again, it could be argued that his breakdown is the result of many emotions, love included, but as someone with a repressed dark side to him, it's more conceivable to believe that it was the inconceivable audacity that his greatest pawn would disobey him.

    I think a telling moment would be that weird dream sequence where Griffith is imagining a family life where he's married to Casca and Guts is a dog. In the end, that's what Guts is to him, a loyal dog that would never betray him.

    His proverbial middle finger to Guts during the Eclipse could be seen as malicious, but I interpreted more as a sign that he's telling Guts "I don't need you anymore". This detached dismissal is supported by his continued cold behavior toward Guts in subsequent meetings, saying things like "Oh, that guy? He's no concern to me."

    Wydrion
  • WydrionWydrion BLBEUEBLA! BLBEUEBLA! Registered User regular
    Extending that notion, with him 'abandoning' Guts in the way that Griffith felt abandoned, I think that it would make sense, at least tonally, if Griffith ascended to godhood (replacing the Idea of Evil, destroying the Idea of Evil, maybe destroying himself afterward) would fit into his 'ascend at any cost' motivations, which would leave Guts without being able to resolve his anger/grief/vengeance, as the ultimate middle finger to him.

    I mean, since he was a youth and was abused, he has been obsessed with gaining power, for what it seems is just the sake of gaining power to see how far he can go. It's like a game, where his own life and the lives of others are just pieces to him. This switch was flipped when Guts left him, where he was previously grounded and saw himself as human, and wanted to take those he surrounded himself with him to the top - after that, he lost his humanity and now only has that singular goal in mind. He pretends to care for the demons and humans following him now, but ultimately they are still just pawns to him. And the most frightening thing is that people would still follow him because he has never shown any weakness except to Guts and to Casca, and the immediate certainty of his choices betrays what should be the hard decisions set before him.

    So tl;dr I almost expect the series to end with Guts finally confronting Griffith, and then suddenly being deprived of his whole reason for existing post-Eclipse. But that's a long, long time in the future, so who knows.

  • WydrionWydrion BLBEUEBLA! BLBEUEBLA! Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Just an update - the DVD/Blu-ray for the 3rd movie is now out in Japan. (technically yesterday to us.)

    I haven't seen any kind of reviews beyond what people saw in the theaters, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled. Anyone crazy enough to import it?

    Edit: I guess on skullknight.net people have been reviewing it. General consensus is that it's better than the first two but obviously not perfect.

    Wydrion on
    Geth
  • Xenogear_0001Xenogear_0001 Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    God. The only thing I've ever seen of Berserk was the entirety of the Eclipse from the original series. Think about that for a second--that's my first, and only, impression of Berserk. I'm morbidly curious to read the manga, but that could take quite some time, and I wouldn't even know where to find it.

    Xenogear_0001 on
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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    The manga is published by dark horse iirc, so it should be easy to find.

    There really is some excellent storytelling in there. I can't really deny that it's gotten a bit tired lately, but it's a surprisingly psychological story, and the art gets incredibly nice later on.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    The manga is published by dark horse iirc, so it should be easy to find.
    The first five volumes are: 1 to 2 month wait, temporarily out of stock, in stock, 1 to 4 week wait, and not listed by Amazon respectively.

    Good luck!

  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Have the 3 new movies been popular enough for them to adapt the latter manga stories? Seeing Emperor Ganishka animated would be amazing.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • WydrionWydrion BLBEUEBLA! BLBEUEBLA! Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    God. The only thing I've ever seen of Berserk was the entirety of the Eclipse from the original series. Think about that for a second--that's my first, and only, impression of Berserk. I'm morbidly curious to read the manga, but that could take quite some time, and I wouldn't even know where to find it.


    We're not allowed to talk about 'piratey' things on this forum, but anyone who has read the entire manga and claims they did it through Dark Horse is a goddamn liar. That being said they're releasing a new volume very soon (37) which might spur them to reprint some older issues, but it's not likely.

    I would recommend you watch the rest of the anime first, and then find some way to read the manga from the beginning. You'll appreciate Miura's attention to detail so much more.

    Wydrion on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Reading the Berserk manga (legally) all the way though is a freaking investment I tell you. Not so much time because most of the volumes are easy reads but Dark Horse prices them annoyingly expensive.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Slacker1913Slacker1913 Registered User regular
    I think at $10 per book it still remains my most expensive comic book collection.

    Eh, I'll get around to it.
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    The manga is published by dark horse iirc, so it should be easy to find.

    There really is some excellent storytelling in there. I can't really deny that it's gotten a bit tired lately, but it's a surprisingly psychological story, and the art gets incredibly nice later on.

    Parts of the story have taken a long time to progress. Hopefully things will start moving again soon.
    But yeah, the art looks great, and the story is rather good.

  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    I think at $10 per book it still remains my most expensive comic book collection.
    If you can find them for $10, jump on it. They retail for $15, iirc.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Why is it taking so long for a fan sub of the 3rd movie?

    Whyyyy?!?!?!?!?1

    desc wrote: »
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  • cptruggedcptrugged Buster Machine Registered User regular
    God. The only thing I've ever seen of Berserk was the entirety of the Eclipse from the original series. Think about that for a second--that's my first, and only, impression of Berserk. I'm morbidly curious to read the manga, but that could take quite some time, and I wouldn't even know where to find it.

    That's a shame really. If that was another person who showed you the end of a show that was actually a pretty decent who I'd punch them in the dick. If you did it to yourself. Still a shame. It was a good show that just had the most rage inducing ending I've ever seen in my time watching anime.

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    I will cut you

    diamond-shapes-thumb.png

  • Xenogear_0001Xenogear_0001 Registered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    God. The only thing I've ever seen of Berserk was the entirety of the Eclipse from the original series. Think about that for a second--that's my first, and only, impression of Berserk. I'm morbidly curious to read the manga, but that could take quite some time, and I wouldn't even know where to find it.

    That's a shame really. If that was another person who showed you the end of a show that was actually a pretty decent who I'd punch them in the dick. If you did it to yourself. Still a shame. It was a good show that just had the most rage inducing ending I've ever seen in my time watching anime.

    Nope, all my own doing. I stumbled upon it on Youtube somehow (completely uncensored, too!) and was unable to not watch it. Shit was intense, man. I did enough research to figure out what was happening there--I can see why it would piss so many off.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    God. The only thing I've ever seen of Berserk was the entirety of the Eclipse from the original series. Think about that for a second--that's my first, and only, impression of Berserk. I'm morbidly curious to read the manga, but that could take quite some time, and I wouldn't even know where to find it.

    That's a shame really. If that was another person who showed you the end of a show that was actually a pretty decent who I'd punch them in the dick. If you did it to yourself. Still a shame. It was a good show that just had the most rage inducing ending I've ever seen in my time watching anime.

    Nope, all my own doing. I stumbled upon it on Youtube somehow (completely uncensored, too!) and was unable to not watch it. Shit was intense, man. I did enough research to figure out what was happening there--I can see why it would piss so many off.

    If you can believe it, the anime toned it down from the manga to a certain degree. But you should try to find some way to read the manga - the story is actually quite good (even if it takes its sweet time to get there).

    Miura really needs to get with making new chapters, though :/

  • FirebirdFirebird Harbinger....of.....~something. Registered User regular
    Hell, I appreciated the Eclipse for making me as pissed off as it did, since no other manga managed to do that...
    That event made me realize how much I actually cared about the fate of its characters, and it's quite deserving of the titular title.

    It also helps that Guts really has one the best character developments I have seen in any other media.

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  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Firebird wrote: »
    Hell, I appreciated the Eclipse for making me as pissed off as it did, since no other manga managed to do that...
    That event made me realize how much I actually cared about the fate of its characters, and it's quite deserving of the titular title.

    It also helps that Guts really has one the best character developments I have seen in any other media.

    Yeah, Guts is by no means a static, one-dimensional character. Dude is undergoing constant change. Some things remain immutable, but overall he's been changing since the start of the story.

  • Slacker1913Slacker1913 Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    I think at $10 per book it still remains my most expensive comic book collection.
    If you can find them for $10, jump on it. They retail for $15, iirc.
    I was getting them from Amazon as they were coming out and for some reason all of them were reduced from $15 to $10.
    Now if only Miura would get on with it. People who are complaining about G.R.R. Martin being a slow writer have no idea. :(

    Eh, I'll get around to it.
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular

    Griffith is in love with Guts. Period. End of discussion.

    It may not be Sexual lust, but for all intensive purposes, it was complete and total infatuation.
    I think a telling moment would be that weird dream sequence where Griffith is imagining a family life where he's married to Casca and Guts is a dog. In the end, that's what Guts is to him, a loyal dog that would never betray him.

    I think you need to go watch that scene again- at least the english dub. Casca calls for "Guts" to stop teasing "Pippin" the dog (I took this as a benign nod of affection toward Pippin, not an implication of slight) and "go wash your hands!" She even speaks about how "Guts" is their "beautiful little boy."

    That entire sequence is meant to give Griffith a true choice- sacrifice the Hawks for his selfish ambitions, or let it go and live in peace. His actions and betrayal during the eclipse have less weight and meaning if he does not understand the consequences of not only what he is about to do, but what he is giving up by doing so. He becomes more sympathetic if you assume that Griffith is frightened of his future (being a cripple, being abandoned), but the dream shows him the potential future is really not that bad. Griffith's internal monologue states this explicitly "Well then... my life will be a peaceful one." It's not exactly what he had wanted, but it's his own fault for blowing it by sleeping with the princess and pissing off the King of Midland. So, despite his massive fuckup, Griffith's life will work out pretty well after all. He rejects it, though, in place of his own self-centered bullshit. I actually wish that "dream" sequence was presented to him by the Godhand to show him outright that "this, this is what you are rejecting in favor of sacrificing everyone for your dream." It makes the entire Eclipse more tragic- Griffith wasn't forced into this- he wanted to do it because to him it's the Griffith show and everyone else is just a side character.

    I hope to shit they finally finish the goddamn manga, I've been out of college a good 7 years or so since I've first seen it, and it moves at such a glacial pace. I keep thinking of that seen from Monty Python and the Holy Grail "GET ON WITH IT!"

    Wydrion
  • WydrionWydrion BLBEUEBLA! BLBEUEBLA! Registered User regular
    So I sat through all of the third movie - while the 3D was not perfect, it was a lot better than it was before.

    There were also a lot of atmospheric scenes, where you just kind of sit there and take it all in. Strange choices of background music, sometimes there was none at all, just ambient sound.

    ...The eclipse:
    I feel like the anime portrayed it as a horrific clusterfuck better. In the movie, there was a lot of quiet wandering by a lot of the cast, as if there was only one small roving band of demons going around picking them off one by one. The music for Casca's rape was also very strange. I'm going to make a distinction here - I found the rape in the anime heartbreaking and sick, but here I found it merely disgusting. It was still sad, but there was a cheapness about it - this is one of those times when less is more. It worked in the manga because you're just seeing still scenes, and you can let your imagination fill in the blanks (or not), but I think we could have done without the excessive humping. We get it.

    That being said, the lead-up to the 'sacrifice', that was pretty awesome. They gave some more characterization to Conrad and especially Ubik, who were often secondary to Void and Slan in the manga.

    The little flashback to King Gaiseric basically cements the fact that he's Skull Knight, as everyone already believed to be true, so the movie wins points for that.

    All in all I'd say if you've sat through the previous two, you'll most likely enjoy it. Let's just hope they can treat sexual content in the future with more tact than a hentai B-movie.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    As happy as I was when the movies were coming out

    They just feel like a big let down, really. The original anime just feels like it got what the actual important parts of the story were, and the movies really don't.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    I think you need to go watch that scene again- at least the english dub. Casca calls for "Guts" to stop teasing "Pippin" the dog (I took this as a benign nod of affection toward Pippin, not an implication of slight) and "go wash your hands!" She even speaks about how "Guts" is their "beautiful little boy."

    That entire sequence is meant to give Griffith a true choice- sacrifice the Hawks for his selfish ambitions, or let it go and live in peace. His actions and betrayal during the eclipse have less weight and meaning if he does not understand the consequences of not only what he is about to do, but what he is giving up by doing so. He becomes more sympathetic if you assume that Griffith is frightened of his future (being a cripple, being abandoned), but the dream shows him the potential future is really not that bad. Griffith's internal monologue states this explicitly "Well then... my life will be a peaceful one." It's not exactly what he had wanted, but it's his own fault for blowing it by sleeping with the princess and pissing off the King of Midland. So, despite his massive fuckup, Griffith's life will work out pretty well after all. He rejects it, though, in place of his own self-centered bullshit.
    I'd hesitate to call it bullshit. In that potential future, he'd have Caska, but he wouldn't actually _be_ anybody. It's not all that surprising that given his character, between having a small, content and peaceful life, or standing astride the world with people crying his name in adulation, it's not all that surprising which one he chose.
    I hope to shit they finally finish the goddamn manga, I've been out of college a good 7 years or so since I've first seen it, and it moves at such a glacial pace. I keep thinking of that seen from Monty Python and the Holy Grail "GET ON WITH IT!"

    By all reports from Miura, the story in somewhere around reaching the halfway point from the grand arc he has in his head. I dread we're ever going to get to the end. :P

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    I haven't caught up on the manga for awhile . . . but seeing as how he only puts out like a volume a year, I feel like this shouldn't be too stupid a question

    Are they
    off the boat yet?

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  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    I think you need to go watch that scene again- at least the english dub. Casca calls for "Guts" to stop teasing "Pippin" the dog (I took this as a benign nod of affection toward Pippin, not an implication of slight) and "go wash your hands!" She even speaks about how "Guts" is their "beautiful little boy."

    That entire sequence is meant to give Griffith a true choice- sacrifice the Hawks for his selfish ambitions, or let it go and live in peace. His actions and betrayal during the eclipse have less weight and meaning if he does not understand the consequences of not only what he is about to do, but what he is giving up by doing so. He becomes more sympathetic if you assume that Griffith is frightened of his future (being a cripple, being abandoned), but the dream shows him the potential future is really not that bad. Griffith's internal monologue states this explicitly "Well then... my life will be a peaceful one." It's not exactly what he had wanted, but it's his own fault for blowing it by sleeping with the princess and pissing off the King of Midland. So, despite his massive fuckup, Griffith's life will work out pretty well after all. He rejects it, though, in place of his own self-centered bullshit.
    I'd hesitate to call it bullshit. In that potential future, he'd have Caska, but he wouldn't actually _be_ anybody. It's not all that surprising that given his character, between having a small, content and peaceful life, or standing astride the world with people crying his name in adulation, it's not all that surprising which one he chose.
    I hope to shit they finally finish the goddamn manga, I've been out of college a good 7 years or so since I've first seen it, and it moves at such a glacial pace. I keep thinking of that seen from Monty Python and the Holy Grail "GET ON WITH IT!"

    By all reports from Miura, the story in somewhere around reaching the halfway point from the grand arc he has in his head. I dread we're ever going to get to the end. :P

    I'm kind of resigned to never seeing it to the end. I'm just along for the ride to see how far it goes.

  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    I haven't caught up on the manga for awhile . . . but seeing as how he only puts out like a volume a year, I feel like this shouldn't be too stupid a question

    Are they
    off the boat yet?
    The last Gutts chapter had them about to arrive. It's on a "side" story.

    Transporter on
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard Registered User regular
    Well, while on vacation, I just saw the second movie. Man did they truncate a lot while padding retardedly in other areas. Also the omission of
    Zodd in the scene where Butts... <--that was a typo, but it's hilarious enough that I'm going to keep it. ...in the scene where "Butts" fights Boscogn had me sputtering.
    Lot of character development was stripped, I keep hearing people lamenting Bonfire of Dreams, assassination plot cut, much of the foreshadowing of Gutt's departure gone, etc. Overall enjoyable, understandably condensed in some places, ridiculously so in others, and nonsensically padded in some.

    Well from what I hear the third movie is better.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Well shit.
    http://blog.livedoor.jp/shonenmanga/archives/30868454.html

    Series apparently on infinite hiatus due to author health.

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    I've already treated the series as if it was on hiatus for years. Unfortunate, though.
    The storyline has progressed so slowly in the past few years that I didn't think we'd see the end anyway.

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    It's a bit fitting to just never end.

  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    There's this one artist guy, Kuji Mitsuhisa I think his name was, who worked alongside Miura for quite a few years before moving on to his own projects, notably a manga series similarly low-medieval themed called Wolfsmund.

    If Miura ever bites the bucket, I hope that guy comes back to Berserk to, at the very least, make an attempt at collecting any unfinished material and notes Miura might have had and tie the series up.

    Zephiran on
    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Looks like the link is actually a joke from 2chan. Which makes sense given that we haven't seen the news on ANN or something like that.

    Might as well be real given how long this break has been :/

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    It doesn't exactly help that the current arc has been going for years, and hasn't exactly progressed the story much. I don't think there's any way to realistically stretch it further, thankfully.

  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited May 2014
    Finally watched all three of the Studio 4C films.

    The CG crap was definitely a big mark against them, especially the frequent use of them even during dialog sequences. You can always spot them a mile away and it instantly downgraded the smooth animation to Drinky Crow levels. I don't know if it was due to a budget reason or what, but it was ghastly. It's telling that the best looking fight in the entire trilogy was the one between Guts and Silat in Movie 3, since it didn't utilize any CG at all.

    The other big mark was the omission/changing of several key sequences. I know you can't fit everything from the manga into three films, but they had no reason to remove
    Zodd showing up and tossing Guts a humongous sword during the Doldery raid

    Those negatives aside, Movie 3 was definitely the best of the bunch and the whole Eclipse sequence was handled perfectly. Some truly gruesome sequences you would never see in a Hollywood adaption (since it would be billed closer to a superhero movie than a horror film) mixed in with some genuine human emotion with its core characters.
    I wonder if Sagisu got flashbacks composing for End of Evangelion. A lot of the imagery during the non-feasting portions of the Eclipse did have a similar look to them.

    It was especially a treat hearing the dub cast handle (briefly) the events after the Eclipse. For anyone who watched the TV series but hadn't checked out the manga, that was almost like a 10 minute sequel after years of wondering.

    Also....
    Motherfucking Skull Knight

    I hope the rest of the series continues in animated form, but I realize how difficult that's going to be due to its graphic nature. Only OVAs or more movies would do the trick, especially as Japanese TV has gotten even less lenient (they censored a cigarette in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure because the character was underage.[/spoiler]

    Also the manga has finally started up again after a long hiatus, so I guess people can discuss that too. I still need to catch up.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard Registered User regular
    Yeah, your spoiled omission was a big WTF moment for me as well.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    As a sidenote, the manga had a new chapter last month, with another one coming this month.

    For people who stopped paying attention in the OVER A YEAR that there wasn't an update.

  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    Another omission
    I was a tad disappointed that the revelation of Casca and Guts being rape survivors wasn't revealed to the both of them. I felt it made Guts a more grounded character in the manga. In the movie, he remains a hulking mercenary beast.

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