how fucking refreshing to hear *actual* news. No pundits, no hearsay, no flim-flam, no sensationalism, no fear mongering.
just the facts. its so invigorating.
This is pretty much my worry about the situation too. Ebola can be controlled in the first world. It's not a magic virus. We know what it does, and how to stop it spreading. We can do a 95% quality job of this with just good information that...
i) Viruses exist, and can kill you. Bodily fluids are FULL of viruses so stay away from them.
ii) Plenty of masks, gloves and alcohol handwashing gels for healthcare workers and others who want them
iii) The knowledge that if you get sick, you should isolate yourself as best you can
iv) Good precautions around those who die from the disease
This should be our goal for Africa, you get to that, then the disease will die out in a month (not that this will be trivial, it will take a serious response by national agencies who are willing to use good infection control themselves). However, a modern US hospital with 1 case to deal with should not be aiming for 95%. They should be able to achieve absolutely no chance of any follow on infection. 2 shows that they must have systematic failings in their protocol. Now, they are clearly still doing a 95% good job, so this shouldn't be infecting large numbers, but thats not our goal here. They need to not take in further patients with infectious disease, and have a full review of their protocols. The problem is the US for profit hospital system, and the massive variety in the quality of contagion control. The patient, when there are such small numbers of them, should have been handled by an experienced CDC team who flew in specifically for this. 2 follow on cases is AWFUL for a modern hospital. You could do better than that with 19th century technology combating a Measles patient.
I used to work in a healthcare environment. A lot of my worry about ebola springs from knowing just how dysfunctional even the "top ranked" hospitals are these days. The free market has left the American medical system in a pretty bad state during normal functioning, so it's hard to be optimistic that it will all come magically together in an emergency because of our First Worldness.
And one thing to understand about the United States at this point of time is that, while we have no shortage of highly paid experts, we've spent the last few decades overworking our medical support staff while requiring them to get additional training and certifications on their own dime, served by "entrepreneurs" whose major qualifications are that they can cheaply and quickly deliver Continuing Education Credit courses. Since it won't be the CDC scientific staff emptying bed pans, this is a major issue when it comes to major outbreaks.
That is certainly a concern
along with the fact that damn near every hospital in the country was built by a lowest bidder and maintained by people making minimum wage who are basically the same as most people. Go to work, do whatever someone asks me to, no more no less.
which is generally fine!
unless you're in a hospital setting and MORE needs to be done to maintain a clean setting.
Our local hospital (which I will not name due to massive ongoing lawsuits) is a cesspool. It is horrible in almost every concievable way.
My firm (which I will also not name) was contracted to do a series of inspections (we were eventually laid off because we were costing them too much money (i.e. our recommended fixes would have cost them too much money)). We found over 5,000 examples of health and/or safety violations in a hospital less then 5 years old.
this is a picture of two holes in a wall. If you bent down, you could see directly into the room on the interior side of the wall.
this room is their 'sterile lab'.
I highly doubt this has been fixed.
[/img]snip[/img]
I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that 90% of the hospitals in the country are run in a similar manner.
"Essentially any hospital in the country can take care of Ebola. You don't need a special hospital room to do it," Dr. Tom Frieden, current Director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said Oct.
This is what the man in authority is telling me, so it must be true
This statement is 100% true, you don't need a special room. However you DO need staff who do the right thing and follow protocol properly. If you have to be around an Ebola patient who is dying, that is almost the only time the viral load gets high enough that the virus becomes very infectious. The Dallas hospital failed on a human level, and the failure would have been the same if they had been operating in a clean room with negative pressure.
The executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons says that despite what the CDC is saying, Ebola might be transmitted by breathing.
“What we’re suggesting is that it is very dangerous to assume that one cannot ever acquire Ebola from an aerosol or from breathing,” said Dr. Jane Orient.
Two healthcare workers at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas have now been infected with the disease, despite insisting that protocol was followed. Dr. Orient won’t rule out an airborne infection.
When a patient vomits, has diarrhea, undergoes medical procedures, or even flushes the toilet, “there’s just a cloud that contains pathogen virus particles,” says Dr. Orient.
Dr. Orient says that when an aerosol dries up, droplet nuclei remain suspended in the air for a long time. A recent research study suggests that Ebola could remain infectious in an aerosol for more than an hour.
GOP Senate candidates Rand Paul and Sharron Angle are both associated with a radical group of right-wing, conspiracy-theorist doctors, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Angle, who's running against incumbent Democrat Harry Reid in Nevada, headlined a rally for the group in San Diego on August 7. And TPM relays that Paul, the opthamologist who's running against the Democratic state Attorney General Jack Conway in Kentucky, is a full-on member of the group. [...]
Last year, our own Stephanie Mencimer reported on the AAPS' association with the tea parties and the bizarre beliefs of its members. The archives of the group's main publication, the Journal of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, "present a kind of alternate-universe scientific world, in which abortion causes breast cancer and vaccines cause autism, but HIV does not cause AIDS," Mencimer wrote. Here are some highlights:
Yet despite the lab coats and the official-sounding name, the docs of the AAPS are hardly part of mainstream medical society. Think Glenn Beck with an MD. The group (which did not return calls for comment for this story) has been around since 1943. Some of its former leaders were John Birchers, and its political philosophy comes straight out of Ayn Rand. Its general counsel is Andrew Schlafly, son of the legendary conservative activist Phyllis. The AAPS statement of principles declares that it is "evil" and "immoral" for physicians to participate in Medicare and Medicaid, and its journal is a repository for quackery. Its website features claims that tobacco taxes harm public health and electronic medical records are a form of "data control" like that employed by the East German secret police. An article on the AAPS website speculated that Barack Obama may have won the presidency by hypnotizing voters, especially cohorts known to be susceptible to "neurolinguistic programming"—that is, according to the writer, young people, educated people, and possibly Jews.....
I bring you two quotes that may or may not fit a time like this. Pick the one that best suits your personality.
And we'll have fun, fun, fun now that daddy took the T-Bird away!
This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
Better to not have one than to have the one Obama tried to nominate.
There was no episode where Doogie Houser MD became surgeon general, Obama.
The age of the candidate doesn't matter in a political position like Surgeon General. In most cases the actual person holding the seat doesn't matter either. If he is able to listen to his aids, who are going to be the real people who understand the issue, I would even support Neil Patrick Harris for Surgeon General.
It wasn't his age so much as the "has only been out of med school for four years". If you think that's appropriate for surgeon general, that's your opinion that you have every right to.
For me, I think that's one Obama nomination that I think congress was actually right to not let go through.
I'd actually argue that someone fresher from med school is more more likely to be up to date. Do you have any idea how much medical knowledge has advanced in the past 20 years? And you expect someone who was in med school before that, while likely running his own practice and dealing with actually being a doctor, to have kept up on all everything except his very narrow specialty?
I'd trust a newer doctor than an older one with anything that hasn't already been well documented for longer than a decade. Traumas and such? Sure. But diseases and such? Newer doc, hands down.
InkSplat on
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
It wasn't his age so much as the "has only been out of med school for four years". If you think that's appropriate for surgeon general, that's your opinion that you have every right to.
For me, I think that's one Obama nomination that I think congress was actually right to not let go through.
I'd actually argue that someone fresher from med school is more more likely to be up to date. Do you have any idea how much medical knowledge has advanced in the past 20 years? And you expect someone who was in med school before that, while likely running his own practice and dealing with actually being a doctor, to have kept up on all everything except his very narrow specialty?
I'd trust a newer doctor than an older one with anything that hasn't already been well documented for longer than a decade. Traumas and such? Sure. But diseases and such? Newer doc, hands down.
When it comes to policy-making though, might there be something to be said for experience with patients, conditions, systems, environments, coworkers, etc? Some of my doctor friends have talked about how they've mellowed out/hardened up in different places over time, as they've had different experiences. A lot of them got way less douchey after their first few ER rotations....
The executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons says that despite what the CDC is saying, Ebola might be transmitted by breathing.
“What we’re suggesting is that it is very dangerous to assume that one cannot ever acquire Ebola from an aerosol or from breathing,” said Dr. Jane Orient.
Two healthcare workers at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas have now been infected with the disease, despite insisting that protocol was followed. Dr. Orient won’t rule out an airborne infection.
When a patient vomits, has diarrhea, undergoes medical procedures, or even flushes the toilet, “there’s just a cloud that contains pathogen virus particles,” says Dr. Orient.
Dr. Orient says that when an aerosol dries up, droplet nuclei remain suspended in the air for a long time. A recent research study suggests that Ebola could remain infectious in an aerosol for more than an hour.
GOP Senate candidates Rand Paul and Sharron Angle are both associated with a radical group of right-wing, conspiracy-theorist doctors, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Angle, who's running against incumbent Democrat Harry Reid in Nevada, headlined a rally for the group in San Diego on August 7. And TPM relays that Paul, the opthamologist who's running against the Democratic state Attorney General Jack Conway in Kentucky, is a full-on member of the group. [...]
Last year, our own Stephanie Mencimer reported on the AAPS' association with the tea parties and the bizarre beliefs of its members. The archives of the group's main publication, the Journal of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, "present a kind of alternate-universe scientific world, in which abortion causes breast cancer and vaccines cause autism, but HIV does not cause AIDS," Mencimer wrote. Here are some highlights:
Yet despite the lab coats and the official-sounding name, the docs of the AAPS are hardly part of mainstream medical society. Think Glenn Beck with an MD. The group (which did not return calls for comment for this story) has been around since 1943. Some of its former leaders were John Birchers, and its political philosophy comes straight out of Ayn Rand. Its general counsel is Andrew Schlafly, son of the legendary conservative activist Phyllis. The AAPS statement of principles declares that it is "evil" and "immoral" for physicians to participate in Medicare and Medicaid, and its journal is a repository for quackery. Its website features claims that tobacco taxes harm public health and electronic medical records are a form of "data control" like that employed by the East German secret police. An article on the AAPS website speculated that Barack Obama may have won the presidency by hypnotizing voters, especially cohorts known to be susceptible to "neurolinguistic programming"—that is, according to the writer, young people, educated people, and possibly Jews.....
I bring you two quotes that may or may not fit a time like this. Pick the one that best suits your personality.
And we'll have fun, fun, fun now that daddy took the T-Bird away!
This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
These people need to be tasered like the arsehole journalist in Die Hard 2. For the public good.
Making the assumption that the health care workers contracted the disease because they took off their suits incorrectly, touched infectious material on their suits, then transferred the material via touch to their faces... should there not be concern about what else the health care workers touched? I mean, there was clearly enough material there to infect themselves with; why would it not be considered a health risk for the workers to then leave residue of that material on, say, doorknobs or documents as they handled them?
Better to not have one than to have the one Obama tried to nominate.
There was no episode where Doogie Houser MD became surgeon general, Obama.
The age of the candidate doesn't matter in a political position like Surgeon General. In most cases the actual person holding the seat doesn't matter either. If he is able to listen to his aids, who are going to be the real people who understand the issue, I would even support Neil Patrick Harris for Surgeon General.
It wasn't his age so much as the "has only been out of med school for four years". If you think that's appropriate for surgeon general, that's your opinion that you have every right to.
For me, I think that's one Obama nomination that I think congress was actually right to not let go through.
I'd actually argue that someone fresher from med school is more more likely to be up to date. Do you have any idea how much medical knowledge has advanced in the past 20 years? And you expect someone who was in med school before that, while likely running his own practice and dealing with actually being a doctor, to have kept up on all everything except his very narrow specialty?
I'd trust a newer doctor than an older one with anything that hasn't already been well documented for longer than a decade. Traumas and such? Sure. But diseases and such? Newer doc, hands down.
Nothing about or in medical school is preparation for being surgeon general, which is a high, high administrative position.
Nothing.
I don't know what you think medical students are up to, but I assure you it isn't learning how to administrate. That's some totally different university program.
I'll grant you that they might have more current information about diseases and treatments, which is why the surgeon general shouldn't fill his or her staff with just other older more experienced people.
Better to not have one than to have the one Obama tried to nominate.
There was no episode where Doogie Houser MD became surgeon general, Obama.
The age of the candidate doesn't matter in a political position like Surgeon General. In most cases the actual person holding the seat doesn't matter either. If he is able to listen to his aids, who are going to be the real people who understand the issue, I would even support Neil Patrick Harris for Surgeon General.
It wasn't his age so much as the "has only been out of med school for four years". If you think that's appropriate for surgeon general, that's your opinion that you have every right to.
For me, I think that's one Obama nomination that I think congress was actually right to not let go through.
I'd actually argue that someone fresher from med school is more more likely to be up to date. Do you have any idea how much medical knowledge has advanced in the past 20 years? And you expect someone who was in med school before that, while likely running his own practice and dealing with actually being a doctor, to have kept up on all everything except his very narrow specialty?
I'd trust a newer doctor than an older one with anything that hasn't already been well documented for longer than a decade. Traumas and such? Sure. But diseases and such? Newer doc, hands down.
Nothing about or in medical school is preparation for being surgeon general, which is a high, high administrative position.
Nothing.
I don't know what you think medical students are up to, but I assure you it isn't learning how to administrate. That's some totally different university program.
I'll grant you that they might have more current information about diseases and treatments, which is why the surgeon general shouldn't fill his or her staff with just other older more experienced people.
But the one running the show?
Experience, experience, experience.
I don't know how similar hospital administrators are to other professional admin positions, but if they're very close at all, 'experience' is mostly 'experience yelling at the secretary and eating at expensive restaurants' rather than building a specialized skill set.
Better to not have one than to have the one Obama tried to nominate.
There was no episode where Doogie Houser MD became surgeon general, Obama.
The age of the candidate doesn't matter in a political position like Surgeon General. In most cases the actual person holding the seat doesn't matter either. If he is able to listen to his aids, who are going to be the real people who understand the issue, I would even support Neil Patrick Harris for Surgeon General.
It wasn't his age so much as the "has only been out of med school for four years". If you think that's appropriate for surgeon general, that's your opinion that you have every right to.
For me, I think that's one Obama nomination that I think congress was actually right to not let go through.
I'd actually argue that someone fresher from med school is more more likely to be up to date. Do you have any idea how much medical knowledge has advanced in the past 20 years? And you expect someone who was in med school before that, while likely running his own practice and dealing with actually being a doctor, to have kept up on all everything except his very narrow specialty?
I'd trust a newer doctor than an older one with anything that hasn't already been well documented for longer than a decade. Traumas and such? Sure. But diseases and such? Newer doc, hands down.
Nothing about or in medical school is preparation for being surgeon general, which is a high, high administrative position.
Nothing.
I don't know what you think medical students are up to, but I assure you it isn't learning how to administrate. That's some totally different university program.
I'll grant you that they might have more current information about diseases and treatments, which is why the surgeon general shouldn't fill his or her staff with just other older more experienced people.
But the one running the show?
Experience, experience, experience.
I don't know how similar hospital administrators are to other professional admin positions, but if they're very close at all, 'experience' is mostly 'experience yelling at the secretary and eating at expensive restaurants' rather than building a specialized skill set.
Sorry, but I don't think the fresh MBA is more qualified to be CEO than someone with years of experience and I don't think fresh out of medical school makes a better surgeon general than someone with years of experience.
School is great and all, but it's really not the greatest preparation for being at the top of an extensive organization, or else we have literally been doing everything wrong forever and should turn everything upside down right now.
I don't know what you think medical students are up to, but I assure you it isn't learning how to administrate. That's some totally different university program.
Like Health Care Management?
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I don't know what you think medical students are up to, but I assure you it isn't learning how to administrate. That's some totally different university program.
Like Health Care Management?
Sure.
medical school is all about memorizing ridiculous (seriously, ridiculous) quantities of information until the eyes bleed and the mind screams in pain.
That's how we make doctors. It's really not training for administrative positions, which is why doctors out of med school... practice medicine, for years, generally speaking, before they obtain administrative positions!
Anyway, this is a tangent and the bottom line is that Obama's choice got shot down and he should nominate someone else instead of sulking.
Sorry, but I don't think the fresh MBA is more qualified to be CEO than someone with years of experience
This seems a bit foolish to me, given that 'years of experience' does not mean 'years of good work'. This is true of every profession I've interacted with; there are trade-offs between new people to a job (mostly that such people don't know existing systems or relationships like the back of their hand yet) and veterans (they tend to become inflexible after a while, and build habits - not all of which are good habits).
There are lots of good admin that have experience, but the track record is what's going to indicate that - not just how many years they've been at the grindstone for.
Anyway, this is a tangent and the bottom line is that Obama's choice got shot down and he should nominate someone else instead of sulking.
Sorry, but I don't think the fresh MBA is more qualified to be CEO than someone with years of experience
This seems a bit foolish to me, given that 'years of experience' does not mean 'years of good work'. This is true of every profession I've interacted with; there are trade-offs between new people to a job (mostly that such people don't know existing systems or relationships like the back of their hand yet) and veterans (they tend to become inflexible after a while, and build habits - not all of which are good habits).
There are lots of good admin that have experience, but the track record is what's going to indicate that - not just how many years they've been at the grindstone for.
You're absolutely right that years of experience doesn't equal good work.
Which is even more reason to nominate someone with many years of experience to such a high position, because you have an extensive track record to look and see exactly what you're getting.
Unless you think the president's cabinet is filled by pulling names out of a hat, as opposed to an extensive vetting process?
I don't know what you think medical students are up to, but I assure you it isn't learning how to administrate. That's some totally different university program.
Like Health Care Management?
Sure.
medical school is all about memorizing ridiculous (seriously, ridiculous) quantities of information until the eyes bleed and the mind screams in pain.
That's how we make doctors. It's really not training for administrative positions, which is why doctors out of med school... practice medicine, for years, generally speaking, before they obtain administrative positions!
Anyway, this is a tangent and the bottom line is that Obama's choice got shot down and he should nominate someone else instead of sulking.
B-but he has a MBA in Health Care Management ... whatever
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Why are you talking about Obama in the Ebola thread?
I don't get the connection.
Exactly.
That's why this is a tangent, right?
This argument started when it was pointed out that the U.S. does not currently have a surgeon general. The position has been unfilled. The sole nominee that the President put up had about 4 years of experience since medical school.
So we're in the middle of a major health crisis in Africa, a major obesity and diabetes problem at home, and we do not have a surgeon general, which is pretty terrible all things considered.
Why are you talking about Obama in the Ebola thread?
I don't get the connection.
Obama is almost an anagram for Ebola
Wake up sheeple
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I don't know what you think medical students are up to, but I assure you it isn't learning how to administrate. That's some totally different university program.
Like Health Care Management?
Sure.
medical school is all about memorizing ridiculous (seriously, ridiculous) quantities of information until the eyes bleed and the mind screams in pain.
That's how we make doctors. It's really not training for administrative positions, which is why doctors out of med school... practice medicine, for years, generally speaking, before they obtain administrative positions!
Anyway, this is a tangent and the bottom line is that Obama's choice got shot down and he should nominate someone else instead of sulking.
B-but he has a MBA in Health Care Management ... whatever
Hmm, NYT didn't mention that, that's certainly a good thing. Anyway, lets just agree to disagree about this and move on.
Murthy hasn't actually been voted on. Because the NRA said they'd score the vote so it's been held in limbo without a vote. Why that is isn't strictly in the purview of this thread though.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
A surgeon general fresh out of med school just seems completely ridiculous. Next thing there will be a chief justice who is fresh out of law school. You need people with experience in these roles. And yes, 4 years is almost nothing.
A surgeon general fresh out of med school just seems completely ridiculous. Next thing there will be a chief justice who is fresh out of law school. You need people with experience in these roles. And yes, 4 years is almost nothing.
He has a fresh medical degree but also a degree in management, and has managed several companies. Saying he's ridiculously inexperienced at being an administrator is either dishonest or you have no idea who he is. Your comparison is wildly off target.
He's even an active player in politics (very pro Obamacare), which I don't know if its something you guys want or not in your surgeon general. Seems the main reason he wasn't picked was because he's anti guns and that has something to do with being in charge of healthcare? I don't know, american politics get weird fast.
Is it true what was said on the fox segment that politicians try to use Ebola to oust current government out? Like Ebola is a non-issue in America right, it's at worst a completely medical issue for the hospitals. How does someone score political points with this? Thanking Obama for Ebola loudly?
Well, wife had some interesting information last night.
She spent a good part of the day working with a representative for <major drug company> who is doing site visits in preparation for a big clinical trial. Apparently he had just been at another site meeting with management and reviewing their labs and procedures. That site was Texas Presbyterian.
He hadn't realized it was the place with ebola problems until my wife mentioned it, and while I can't get into details about what he said in the meeting, his concerns were in line with what we've been hearing about that hospital.
Yay. Not that I have any reason to be concerned, but I thought it was funny how that worked out.
One of my good friends is actually a ER nurse at Presbyterian.
I had been checking with her to see how she was doing and she's clearly stressed. She just texted me that she's taking a leave of abesense from work and going to put herself in isolation for 21 days.
Re: the nurse taking the flight. Obviously the whole thing with her calling the CDC, reporting a mildly elevated temperature, and not being told not to fly is a fairly huge procedural fuck up. No matter how low a risk, if it can be avoided all together for minimal effort it really should have been avoided.
But as she wasn't even hot enough to properly qualify as a fever, the risk to that plane is extremely low. Remember that Duncan's family who were home caring for him for a number of days of serious symptoms, as yet seem to be fine. The peak of infectivity seems to be pretty much just at the point it kills you.
@Jam Warrior
What is the likelihood of it being spread via mail?
Not trying to scaremonger.
I work in a mailroom currently and people are having a freakout due to a letter that originated from one of the Ebola patients.
The chances are exceptionally low - possible (anything is possible) but you're probably just as likely to get infected by an unrelated person elsewhere as getting it from a letter a day or two after it was handled by a patient.
If you handled the letter immediately after it was licked and sealed by someone symptomatic with ebola, the chances are still very low but probably high enough to keep an eye on your temperature and overall well being.
So, not freak out territory, not really even concerned territory, but 'aware' territory is not unreasonable.
Let me use my experience with doctors to tell you the difference between a 4 year vs 20 year practicing physician.
A doctor fresh out of med school is going to be on the up and up on the latest medications, and treatment regimens. You see this in transplant especially. A 20-40 year practicing physician is going to refer a transplant patient to the steroid using programs because that's what they know and that's what they're familiar with. A 4 year med student is going to look at the results and the treatments and look at what is better for the patient. So they might refer them to the newer program that opts not to use steroids for long term immune system management. This is a discussion we actually had with my g/f's physician when she switched her hospital. He wasn't too familiar with it and wasn't keen on recommending her to them.
A surgeon general doesn't need to be a CEO, they're making decisions based on information as a whole. They'd be more likely to recommend something like mobile hospitals for ebola, because they're a new thing that is working remarkably well. The old codgy doctor who schmoozes with drug companies and golfs with the head of the local hospital because that's how business was done 20 years ago, is going to send people to the ER because that's... that's just how it was done. I mean for christ sake the on-call doctor (who just retired) tried to send my g/f to the ER for a head cold recently, I told him no and we went to urgent care instead. So a 10 hour wait was 1.
I'd be wayyyyy more comfortable with a newer doctor as a surgeon general. I mean he got his MBA and MD in 2003, so he's easily been doing this for a very long time.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Re: the nurse taking the flight. Obviously the whole thing with her calling the CDC, reporting a mildly elevated temperature, and not being told not to fly is a fairly huge procedural fuck up. No matter how low a risk, if it can be avoided all together for minimal effort it really should have been avoided.
But as she wasn't even hot enough to properly qualify as a fever, the risk to that plane is extremely low. Remember that Duncan's family who were home caring for him for a number of days of serious symptoms, as yet seem to be fine. The peak of infectivity seems to be pretty much just at the point it kills you.
From what I recall, the only individuals who became ill from Patrick Sawyer's flight to Lagos were those that helped him off the plane, and he was ridiculously ill at that point.
Posts
just the facts. its so invigorating.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
That Jeepguy always looking on the bright side of horrific epidemic killing billions of americans.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This statement is 100% true, you don't need a special room. However you DO need staff who do the right thing and follow protocol properly. If you have to be around an Ebola patient who is dying, that is almost the only time the viral load gets high enough that the virus becomes very infectious. The Dallas hospital failed on a human level, and the failure would have been the same if they had been operating in a clean room with negative pressure.
I'm sorry Preacher but there's so much wrong with your post I can't even appreciate ironically (as I know it is intended).
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
So... Who is this jagoff and what is the AAPS?
I bring you two quotes that may or may not fit a time like this. Pick the one that best suits your personality.
I'd actually argue that someone fresher from med school is more more likely to be up to date. Do you have any idea how much medical knowledge has advanced in the past 20 years? And you expect someone who was in med school before that, while likely running his own practice and dealing with actually being a doctor, to have kept up on all everything except his very narrow specialty?
I'd trust a newer doctor than an older one with anything that hasn't already been well documented for longer than a decade. Traumas and such? Sure. But diseases and such? Newer doc, hands down.
When it comes to policy-making though, might there be something to be said for experience with patients, conditions, systems, environments, coworkers, etc? Some of my doctor friends have talked about how they've mellowed out/hardened up in different places over time, as they've had different experiences. A lot of them got way less douchey after their first few ER rotations....
These people need to be tasered like the arsehole journalist in Die Hard 2. For the public good.
Making the assumption that the health care workers contracted the disease because they took off their suits incorrectly, touched infectious material on their suits, then transferred the material via touch to their faces... should there not be concern about what else the health care workers touched? I mean, there was clearly enough material there to infect themselves with; why would it not be considered a health risk for the workers to then leave residue of that material on, say, doorknobs or documents as they handled them?
Nothing about or in medical school is preparation for being surgeon general, which is a high, high administrative position.
Nothing.
I don't know what you think medical students are up to, but I assure you it isn't learning how to administrate. That's some totally different university program.
I'll grant you that they might have more current information about diseases and treatments, which is why the surgeon general shouldn't fill his or her staff with just other older more experienced people.
But the one running the show?
Experience, experience, experience.
I don't know how similar hospital administrators are to other professional admin positions, but if they're very close at all, 'experience' is mostly 'experience yelling at the secretary and eating at expensive restaurants' rather than building a specialized skill set.
Sorry, but I don't think the fresh MBA is more qualified to be CEO than someone with years of experience and I don't think fresh out of medical school makes a better surgeon general than someone with years of experience.
School is great and all, but it's really not the greatest preparation for being at the top of an extensive organization, or else we have literally been doing everything wrong forever and should turn everything upside down right now.
Like Health Care Management?
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Sure.
medical school is all about memorizing ridiculous (seriously, ridiculous) quantities of information until the eyes bleed and the mind screams in pain.
That's how we make doctors. It's really not training for administrative positions, which is why doctors out of med school... practice medicine, for years, generally speaking, before they obtain administrative positions!
Anyway, this is a tangent and the bottom line is that Obama's choice got shot down and he should nominate someone else instead of sulking.
This seems a bit foolish to me, given that 'years of experience' does not mean 'years of good work'. This is true of every profession I've interacted with; there are trade-offs between new people to a job (mostly that such people don't know existing systems or relationships like the back of their hand yet) and veterans (they tend to become inflexible after a while, and build habits - not all of which are good habits).
There are lots of good admin that have experience, but the track record is what's going to indicate that - not just how many years they've been at the grindstone for.
lolwut?
You're absolutely right that years of experience doesn't equal good work.
Which is even more reason to nominate someone with many years of experience to such a high position, because you have an extensive track record to look and see exactly what you're getting.
Unless you think the president's cabinet is filled by pulling names out of a hat, as opposed to an extensive vetting process?
I don't get the connection.
B-but he has a MBA in Health Care Management ... whatever
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Exactly.
That's why this is a tangent, right?
This argument started when it was pointed out that the U.S. does not currently have a surgeon general. The position has been unfilled. The sole nominee that the President put up had about 4 years of experience since medical school.
So we're in the middle of a major health crisis in Africa, a major obesity and diabetes problem at home, and we do not have a surgeon general, which is pretty terrible all things considered.
Obama is almost an anagram for Ebola
Wake up sheeple
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Did he have a poor track record within that 4 year span?
Also, you do have an acting Surgeon General, or so the internet tells me (and who doesn't trust the Internet, really?).
Hmm, NYT didn't mention that, that's certainly a good thing. Anyway, lets just agree to disagree about this and move on.
Ebola is the name on the real birth certificate.
This is a pretty comprehensive list of travel restrictions..
Oh well now you're just being ridiculous
You don't put the ebola on the outside of the bullets.
ffs did you not even watch the 2003 masterpiece documentary "Underworld"?
He has a fresh medical degree but also a degree in management, and has managed several companies. Saying he's ridiculously inexperienced at being an administrator is either dishonest or you have no idea who he is. Your comparison is wildly off target.
He's even an active player in politics (very pro Obamacare), which I don't know if its something you guys want or not in your surgeon general. Seems the main reason he wasn't picked was because he's anti guns and that has something to do with being in charge of healthcare? I don't know, american politics get weird fast.
Is it true what was said on the fox segment that politicians try to use Ebola to oust current government out? Like Ebola is a non-issue in America right, it's at worst a completely medical issue for the hospitals. How does someone score political points with this? Thanking Obama for Ebola loudly?
She spent a good part of the day working with a representative for <major drug company> who is doing site visits in preparation for a big clinical trial. Apparently he had just been at another site meeting with management and reviewing their labs and procedures. That site was Texas Presbyterian.
He hadn't realized it was the place with ebola problems until my wife mentioned it, and while I can't get into details about what he said in the meeting, his concerns were in line with what we've been hearing about that hospital.
Yay. Not that I have any reason to be concerned, but I thought it was funny how that worked out.
I had been checking with her to see how she was doing and she's clearly stressed. She just texted me that she's taking a leave of abesense from work and going to put herself in isolation for 21 days.
Hope she's ok
But as she wasn't even hot enough to properly qualify as a fever, the risk to that plane is extremely low. Remember that Duncan's family who were home caring for him for a number of days of serious symptoms, as yet seem to be fine. The peak of infectivity seems to be pretty much just at the point it kills you.
The chances are exceptionally low - possible (anything is possible) but you're probably just as likely to get infected by an unrelated person elsewhere as getting it from a letter a day or two after it was handled by a patient.
If you handled the letter immediately after it was licked and sealed by someone symptomatic with ebola, the chances are still very low but probably high enough to keep an eye on your temperature and overall well being.
So, not freak out territory, not really even concerned territory, but 'aware' territory is not unreasonable.
A doctor fresh out of med school is going to be on the up and up on the latest medications, and treatment regimens. You see this in transplant especially. A 20-40 year practicing physician is going to refer a transplant patient to the steroid using programs because that's what they know and that's what they're familiar with. A 4 year med student is going to look at the results and the treatments and look at what is better for the patient. So they might refer them to the newer program that opts not to use steroids for long term immune system management. This is a discussion we actually had with my g/f's physician when she switched her hospital. He wasn't too familiar with it and wasn't keen on recommending her to them.
A surgeon general doesn't need to be a CEO, they're making decisions based on information as a whole. They'd be more likely to recommend something like mobile hospitals for ebola, because they're a new thing that is working remarkably well. The old codgy doctor who schmoozes with drug companies and golfs with the head of the local hospital because that's how business was done 20 years ago, is going to send people to the ER because that's... that's just how it was done. I mean for christ sake the on-call doctor (who just retired) tried to send my g/f to the ER for a head cold recently, I told him no and we went to urgent care instead. So a 10 hour wait was 1.
I'd be wayyyyy more comfortable with a newer doctor as a surgeon general. I mean he got his MBA and MD in 2003, so he's easily been doing this for a very long time.
From what I recall, the only individuals who became ill from Patrick Sawyer's flight to Lagos were those that helped him off the plane, and he was ridiculously ill at that point.