like, in the beginning of the show, he's dealing with mobsters and serial killers and nobody really has like, weird nicknames and he doesn't even called himself the Arrow or anything else for that matter
and it takes a while for some honest to god costumed villains to show up, and even the first few are more like, lunatics who happen to wear something that sorta kinda resembles a costume if you squint?
then in season 2 there's actual honest to god supervillains with superpowers and shit and it's all fucking crazytown since
I feel like that's a part that doesn't quite completely work for me.
There's a few too many people running around with comically medieval weaponry now.
The show is certainly getting a bit pulpier as it goes.
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
edit: another great thing is the Flash Arrow crossover
one of the best moments of either series is when Ollie is like MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAAAAD and the Flash is like "so fucking what that doesn't justify anything you do"
no the best moment of either series is when the Flash appears out of nowhere and Diggle throws his french fries into the air in shock and stares at him for a good eight seconds and then says "you're fast" like a concussed eight-year-old.
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
i think it's dumb/contrived that he stopped killing people
especially since diggle is killing people all over the place because he is using guns all the time?
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
but he still shoots people all the time so really it's fine
i disagree
I like the idea of the no-kill thing and I like that the show in S1 played off the violence he caused by basically having people ask him several times "What makes you not a fucking serial killer?". But at the same time, it gets a bit silly.
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
edit: another great thing is the Flash Arrow crossover
one of the best moments of either series is when Ollie is like MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAAAAD and the Flash is like "so fucking what that doesn't justify anything you do"
no the best moment of either series is when the Flash appears out of nowhere and Diggle throws his french fries into the air in shock and stares at him for a good eight seconds and then says "you're fast" like a concussed eight-year-old.
diggle's reaction to the Flash is the best fucking shit
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
i think it's dumb/contrived that he stopped killing people
especially since diggle is killing people all over the place because he is using guns all the time?
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
but he still shoots people all the time so really it's fine
i disagree
the whole superhero "i don't kill people" shtick really only works for superheroes who are so exceptionally powerful that it's a matter of discipline more than practicality
for a street level guy who's actually handicapping himself by using a silly outdated weapon it just doesn't make sense
i think they could have gone there by a different route and had it be more convincing, but the motivation they gave him for it was pretty bleh (that character/relationship was just awful though, that's part of it)
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
i think it's dumb/contrived that he stopped killing people
especially since diggle is killing people all over the place because he is using guns all the time?
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
but he still shoots people all the time so really it's fine
i disagree
the whole superhero "i don't kill people" shtick really only works for superheroes who are so exceptionally powerful that it's a matter of discipline more than practicality
for a street level guy who's actually handicapping himself by using a silly outdated weapon it just doesn't make sense
i think they could have gone there by a different route and had it be more convincing, but the motivation they gave him for it was pretty bleh (that character/relationship was just awful though, that's part of it)
The motivation is the best part of it. Like with the Nolan Batmans that are clearly a huge inspiration to the show, they don't just set it in stone at the start. They create it. They establish the motivation behind it and explain it.
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
this is a weird position to take!
"all violence is equally awful so fuck it go nuts who cares kill everything"
that's not my position
my position is that he is taking a weirdly arbitrary moral position
any logic that suggests killing his opponents is wrong will necessarily lead to the conclusion that shooting literally hundreds of people with arrows is pretty fuckin' awful too
and things like
not killng Merlyn when he had the chance? come onnnnnn
i'd like to see a superhero who's a utilitarian for once
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
i think it's dumb/contrived that he stopped killing people
especially since diggle is killing people all over the place because he is using guns all the time?
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
but he still shoots people all the time so really it's fine
i disagree
the whole superhero "i don't kill people" shtick really only works for superheroes who are so exceptionally powerful that it's a matter of discipline more than practicality
for a street level guy who's actually handicapping himself by using a silly outdated weapon it just doesn't make sense
i think they could have gone there by a different route and had it be more convincing, but the motivation they gave him for it was pretty bleh (that character/relationship was just awful though, that's part of it)
The motivation is the best part of it. Like with the Nolan Batmans that are clearly a huge inspiration to the show, they don't just set it in stone at the start. They create it. They establish the motivation behind it and explain it.
So it's like Nolan's Batmans? I'm now less interested.
like, in the beginning of the show, he's dealing with mobsters and serial killers and nobody really has like, weird nicknames and he doesn't even called himself the Arrow or anything else for that matter
and it takes a while for some honest to god costumed villains to show up, and even the first few are more like, lunatics who happen to wear something that sorta kinda resembles a costume if you squint?
then in season 2 there's actual honest to god supervillains with superpowers and shit and it's all fucking crazytown since
I feel like that's a part that doesn't quite completely work for me.
There's a few too many people running around with comically medieval weaponry now.
The show is certainly getting a bit pulpier as it goes.
so
funny thing
a compound bow is actually a pretty practical weapon for an assassin
they're remarkably accurate to a decent range with sufficient training, and they're dramatically more silent than even the most suppressed gun imaginable
and arrows are actually exceptionally lethal in real life, we kinda used them as a weapon of hunting and war for a good reason
with modern design techniques you can actually design some incredibly fucking brutal arrowheads and arrows made out of some pretty messed up materials
and if you were super fancy in some kind of comic book world, hell, make trick arrows with fancy payloads
when you absolutely positively have to make that dude dead as fuck
so for example when Komodo shows up and they're like "How many professional assassins use bows?" and Felicity is like "Uh there's like over 30 dudes who are famous for that"
it's actually really not that absurd, if you're in a world where that kind of professional assassins are an actual thing
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
i think it's dumb/contrived that he stopped killing people
especially since diggle is killing people all over the place because he is using guns all the time?
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
but he still shoots people all the time so really it's fine
i disagree
the whole superhero "i don't kill people" shtick really only works for superheroes who are so exceptionally powerful that it's a matter of discipline more than practicality
for a street level guy who's actually handicapping himself by using a silly outdated weapon it just doesn't make sense
i think they could have gone there by a different route and had it be more convincing, but the motivation they gave him for it was pretty bleh (that character/relationship was just awful though, that's part of it)
The motivation is the best part of it. Like with the Nolan Batmans that are clearly a huge inspiration to the show, they don't just set it in stone at the start. They create it. They establish the motivation behind it and explain it.
So it's like Nolan's Batmans? I'm now less interested.
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
edit: another great thing is the Flash Arrow crossover
one of the best moments of either series is when Ollie is like MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAAAAD and the Flash is like "so fucking what that doesn't justify anything you do"
no the best moment of either series is when the Flash appears out of nowhere and Diggle throws his french fries into the air in shock and stares at him for a good eight seconds and then says "you're fast" like a concussed eight-year-old.
diggle's reaction to the Flash is the best fucking shit
I feel like if a guy using a bow against people with guns is too much for your suspension of disbelief, comic book shows probably aren't for you
+1
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I guess I both disagree on like a fundamental conceptual level but also I really liked that character in Arrow (he grew on me, in the manner of mold, perhaps, but still...) and I like that this has been included as a step in Oliver's journey instead of him just showing up in episode 1 with a fully formed set of comic book ideals
I like how Arrow started out with him basically just killing everyone who got in his way and he didn't really turn into a hero until season 2
i think it's dumb/contrived that he stopped killing people
especially since diggle is killing people all over the place because he is using guns all the time?
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
but he still shoots people all the time so really it's fine
i disagree
the whole superhero "i don't kill people" shtick really only works for superheroes who are so exceptionally powerful that it's a matter of discipline more than practicality
for a street level guy who's actually handicapping himself by using a silly outdated weapon it just doesn't make sense
i think they could have gone there by a different route and had it be more convincing, but the motivation they gave him for it was pretty bleh (that character/relationship was just awful though, that's part of it)
The motivation is the best part of it. Like with the Nolan Batmans that are clearly a huge inspiration to the show, they don't just set it in stone at the start. They create it. They establish the motivation behind it and explain it.
So it's like Nolan's Batmans? I'm now less interested.
it's really not like Nolan's batmen.
I'm back to being interested again. Likening something to the Nolan Batmen is a huge turnoff for me.
I feel like an assassin who wanted an accurate, long-ranged, silent weapon would still not use a bow? they'd use a crossbow or a rifle with some quieter alternative for delivering the payload.
like, in the beginning of the show, he's dealing with mobsters and serial killers and nobody really has like, weird nicknames and he doesn't even called himself the Arrow or anything else for that matter
and it takes a while for some honest to god costumed villains to show up, and even the first few are more like, lunatics who happen to wear something that sorta kinda resembles a costume if you squint?
then in season 2 there's actual honest to god supervillains with superpowers and shit and it's all fucking crazytown since
I feel like that's a part that doesn't quite completely work for me.
There's a few too many people running around with comically medieval weaponry now.
The show is certainly getting a bit pulpier as it goes.
so
funny thing
a compound bow is actually a pretty practical weapon for an assassin
they're remarkably accurate to a decent range with sufficient training, and they're dramatically more silent than even the most suppressed gun imaginable
and arrows are actually exceptionally lethal in real life, we kinda used them as a weapon of hunting and war for a good reason
with modern design techniques you can actually design some incredibly fucking brutal arrowheads and arrows made out of some pretty messed up materials
and if you were super fancy in some kind of comic book world, hell, make trick arrows with fancy payloads
when you absolutely positively have to make that dude dead as fuck
so for example when Komodo shows up and they're like "How many professional assassins use bows?" and Felicity is like "Uh there's like over 30 dudes who are famous for that"
it's actually really not that absurd, if you're in a world where that kind of professional assassins are an actual thing
It's not the bow that bothers me that much.* It's all the other shit. Like an entire order of assassins that apparently hasn't heard of a gun (at least so far as I've seen up to about S2E17) but uses like swords and shit instead.
*Especially in S1 they do a good job of both showing why he uses a bow and how he uses it to his advantage. As his fighting style changes it gets a bit sillier as he does alot more standing around in the open and running into fist-punching range.
superheroes bend over backwards to not kill people because then they can have a revolving cast of characters who go to jail then escape and it broadens the potential audience by having people get politely knocked out rather than killed
this is because the guys who 'don't kill' could never actually be 100% non lethal they would for sure be accidentally killing people left and right
it tends to be really awkward and strikes me as archaic limitation of when comic books couldn't tell complicated stories with violence. there's a happy medium between grimdark and boyscout
it's not like being a vigilante killer is that much worse than being a hyperviolent vigilante who brutalizes and tortures criminals
this is a weird position to take!
"all violence is equally awful so fuck it go nuts who cares kill everything"
that's not my position
my position is that he is taking a weirdly arbitrary moral position
any logic that suggests killing his opponents is wrong will necessarily lead to the conclusion that shooting literally hundreds of people with arrows is pretty fuckin' awful too
and things like
not killng Merlyn when he had the chance? come onnnnnn
i'd like to see a superhero who's a utilitarian for once
he kills people when he has to, though
like
he does make utilitarian, absolutely must kill people choices
he greased the first Count Vertigo not shortly after his vow not to kill because there was literally no other option to save Felicity's life
he's killed since then when he's had to, like, there was no option to not kill so he did what he had to
when he's had the option to not kill, he's opted not to
which is what superheroes do
if they can opt not to kill
they opt not to
not killing Merlyn specifically is this super complicated, really conflicted character choice that is wrapped up in a bunch of shit
like how Merlyn is Thea's father, like how Malcolm has been a friend of his family for basically his entire life
so no, he's not going to just cold blood grease Merlyn no matter how many chances he gets to do so
especially since the person who called him out on how he was going down the path of wantonly, cold-bloodedly murdering people was Malcolm's son
Posts
I think he insists on it a bit too much, but I mean
so he's still willing to kill if necessary
which is a thing I like about Captain America
I feel like that's a part that doesn't quite completely work for me.
There's a few too many people running around with comically medieval weaponry now.
The show is certainly getting a bit pulpier as it goes.
no the best moment of either series is when the Flash appears out of nowhere and Diggle throws his french fries into the air in shock and stares at him for a good eight seconds and then says "you're fast" like a concussed eight-year-old.
i disagree
this is now news to me
this is exciting news to me
apparently if an employer makes me a written job offer and I accept the offer in writing
what this actually means is "call me back the next morning and make me a significantly shittier offer"
it does not, in fact, mean that we have an agreement about my employment
This is new and exciting news
I am newly excited.
Batman, or Batman Beyond batman?
I like the idea of the no-kill thing and I like that the show in S1 played off the violence he caused by basically having people ask him several times "What makes you not a fucking serial killer?". But at the same time, it gets a bit silly.
diggle's reaction to the Flash is the best fucking shit
just
a mixture of shock and horror
his world is upside down now
he does not like this world
where men who exist that can do these things
no sir he does not care for this world at all
the whole superhero "i don't kill people" shtick really only works for superheroes who are so exceptionally powerful that it's a matter of discipline more than practicality
for a street level guy who's actually handicapping himself by using a silly outdated weapon it just doesn't make sense
i think they could have gone there by a different route and had it be more convincing, but the motivation they gave him for it was pretty bleh (that character/relationship was just awful though, that's part of it)
Do not take that job.
it shows us that
Ollie straight up murders henchmen by the score without giving it a thought
it takes other people to tell him he's kind of a psychopath
this is a weird position to take!
"all violence is equally awful so fuck it go nuts who cares kill everything"
What.
Fuck that person.
So sorry for your situation
The motivation is the best part of it. Like with the Nolan Batmans that are clearly a huge inspiration to the show, they don't just set it in stone at the start. They create it. They establish the motivation behind it and explain it.
I am Beyond Batman.
that's not my position
my position is that he is taking a weirdly arbitrary moral position
any logic that suggests killing his opponents is wrong will necessarily lead to the conclusion that shooting literally hundreds of people with arrows is pretty fuckin' awful too
and things like
i'd like to see a superhero who's a utilitarian for once
I'm sure they made sure to not sign anything but that's so damned close to a broken contract that they're not remotely trustworthy.
So it's like Nolan's Batmans? I'm now less interested.
Right, I agree. I'm debating whether I even want to leave the original offer open.
so
funny thing
a compound bow is actually a pretty practical weapon for an assassin
they're remarkably accurate to a decent range with sufficient training, and they're dramatically more silent than even the most suppressed gun imaginable
and arrows are actually exceptionally lethal in real life, we kinda used them as a weapon of hunting and war for a good reason
with modern design techniques you can actually design some incredibly fucking brutal arrowheads and arrows made out of some pretty messed up materials
and if you were super fancy in some kind of comic book world, hell, make trick arrows with fancy payloads
when you absolutely positively have to make that dude dead as fuck
so for example when Komodo shows up and they're like "How many professional assassins use bows?" and Felicity is like "Uh there's like over 30 dudes who are famous for that"
it's actually really not that absurd, if you're in a world where that kind of professional assassins are an actual thing
it's really not like Nolan's batmen.
I'm back to being interested again. Likening something to the Nolan Batmen is a huge turnoff for me.
not that bows aren't effective.
oh my god SPEAKING OF WHICH
ARCHERY DODGEBALL IS A THING THAT EXISTS
there's one in toronto
but I mean he's the arrow not the bolt
It's not the bow that bothers me that much.* It's all the other shit. Like an entire order of assassins that apparently hasn't heard of a gun (at least so far as I've seen up to about S2E17) but uses like swords and shit instead.
*Especially in S1 they do a good job of both showing why he uses a bow and how he uses it to his advantage. As his fighting style changes it gets a bit sillier as he does alot more standing around in the open and running into fist-punching range.
guns work but aren't quiet if we are applying real life logic
that would actually be a solid name
the Quarrel
hahaha amazing
this is because the guys who 'don't kill' could never actually be 100% non lethal they would for sure be accidentally killing people left and right
it tends to be really awkward and strikes me as archaic limitation of when comic books couldn't tell complicated stories with violence. there's a happy medium between grimdark and boyscout
"Quiver"
Though that sounds more like a porn name.
hmmm.
he kills people when he has to, though
like
he does make utilitarian, absolutely must kill people choices
he's killed since then when he's had to, like, there was no option to not kill so he did what he had to
when he's had the option to not kill, he's opted not to
which is what superheroes do
if they can opt not to kill
they opt not to
not killing Merlyn specifically is this super complicated, really conflicted character choice that is wrapped up in a bunch of shit
like how Merlyn is Thea's father, like how Malcolm has been a friend of his family for basically his entire life
so no, he's not going to just cold blood grease Merlyn no matter how many chances he gets to do so
especially since the person who called him out on how he was going down the path of wantonly, cold-bloodedly murdering people was Malcolm's son