I disagree that Angel on a whole was better than Buffy.
But again, yes, season 6 fucked Xander and Willow's characters up pretty good.
Bored now.
Anyway, I'm going to throw my weight on the pile of Buffy having the best individual episodes ("Hush," "Once More With Feeling," the memory loss one(s?), etc), but that Angel had better consistancy and was overall more introspective and interesting. The last seasons of Buffy inevitably got a little too deep into navel-grazing, and Angel ended before that could start happening.
Angel had the muppet episode.
That was fantastic.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I disagree that Angel on a whole was better than Buffy.
But again, yes, season 6 fucked Xander and Willow's characters up pretty good.
Bored now.
Anyway, I'm going to throw my weight on the pile of Buffy having the best individual episodes ("Hush," "Once More With Feeling," the memory loss one(s?), etc), but that Angel had better consistancy and was overall more introspective and interesting. The last seasons of Buffy inevitably got a little too deep into navel-grazing, and Angel ended before that could start happening.
Buffy seasons 2-5 is basically the standard by which I judge every other TV series so I still consider Buffy the best of the three.
I disagree that Angel on a whole was better than Buffy.
But again, yes, season 6 fucked Xander and Willow's characters up pretty good.
Bored now.
Anyway, I'm going to throw my weight on the pile of Buffy having the best individual episodes ("Hush," "Once More With Feeling," the memory loss one(s?), etc), but that Angel had better consistancy and was overall more introspective and interesting. The last seasons of Buffy inevitably got a little too deep into navel-grazing, and Angel ended before that could start happening.
Buffy seasons 2-5 is basically the standard by which I judge every other TV series so I still consider Buffy the best of the three.
I think Buffy season 3 is basically the best 22 hours of television ever created.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I'm not excited about the premise, but then I went into Firefly with misgivings as well (largely thanks to the promos with an excited voice shouting about an intergalactic hooker).
I disagree that Angel on a whole was better than Buffy.
But again, yes, season 6 fucked Xander and Willow's characters up pretty good.
Bored now.
Anyway, I'm going to throw my weight on the pile of Buffy having the best individual episodes ("Hush," "Once More With Feeling," the memory loss one(s?), etc), but that Angel had better consistancy and was overall more introspective and interesting. The last seasons of Buffy inevitably got a little too deep into navel-grazing, and Angel ended before that could start happening.
Angel had the muppet episode.
That was fantastic.
One of the best episodes of anything in television's entire history. It's as classic, to me, as Abbott and Costello's "Who's On First?"
And Buffy Season 3... that was the one with the Mayor as the Big Bad, right? That *was* a fantastic season.
There's so many amazing stand alone episodes it's hard to pick a favorite. Zeppo and OMWF are definately up there. I also think The Body is one of the most ridiculously brutal episodes of TV ever. And Hush is great. And many more i can't think of off the top of my head.
I disagree that Angel on a whole was better than Buffy.
But again, yes, season 6 fucked Xander and Willow's characters up pretty good.
Bored now.
Anyway, I'm going to throw my weight on the pile of Buffy having the best individual episodes ("Hush," "Once More With Feeling," the memory loss one(s?), etc), but that Angel had better consistancy and was overall more introspective and interesting. The last seasons of Buffy inevitably got a little too deep into navel-grazing, and Angel ended before that could start happening.
Angel had the muppet episode.
That was fantastic.
One of the best episodes of anything in television's entire history. It's as classic, to me, as Abbott and Costello's "Who's On First?"
I think the quality followed David Boreanaz around, for some unknown reason. When both were on, Angel was always better overall. Buffy's strongest seasons are before he leaves. Of course, Buffy still had a ton of awesome episode after that, but there's was too much mediocre stuff interspersed. Angel S1-5 had better overall quality then Buffy S4-7.
Cordelia Chase, started out as the bitchy cheerleader that you waited for the monster to eat, turned into the only true hero of the entire scoobies. I mean who didn't get tired of Buffy going "im the only one, im the only one. no one knows my pain" emo girl? And Angel angst? Cordy was the perfect blend of bitchy,snarky and the genuinly heroic.
The episode where she chooses to keep her pre-cog power in order to save angel was brilliant. And her apperance in S5 showed how much of the comedy in angel depended on her.
though
Angels grand speech to Illyria interupted by Wes shooting Knox. funniest moment in the series IMO
"Where you even listening?"
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
I think Buffy season 3 is basically the best 22 hours of television ever created.
I admit that Buffy Season 3 had an incredible narrative structure. I mean, it's no Babylon 5 or anything, what with the pre-planned 5 year story arc, but I don't think it was ever meant to be.
The big thing that Joss excels at is creating memorable characters, and that can carry a fandom a long way.
I think the quality followed David Boreanaz around, for some unknown reason. When both were on, Angel was always better overall. Buffy's strongest seasons are before he leaves. Of course, Buffy still had a ton of awesome episode after that, but there's was too much mediocre stuff interspersed. Angel S1-5 had better overall quality then Buffy S4-7.
It's still true. He's super enigmatic. There is really no reason that Bones should be around still, it's a quirky CSI. *I* really like the show but it's not often what I like actually coincides with the majority. I reckon David Boreanaz is the load-bearing wall of that show. I reckon...
badfish on
"What you had there is what we refer to as a focused non-terminal repeating phantasm or a Class 5 full-roaming vapor."
First, you can't have an awesome Buffy discussion without mentioning "Restless." The last episode of season 4... I think that one was actually my favorite... but the others mentioned are also awesome.
Everyone saying that, overall, Angel was better seem to be completely blocking out the first two seasons of that show. Those seasons were absolutely awful... if only by comparison. The show didn't find its voice until season 3.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
First, you can't have an awesome Buffy discussion without mentioning "Restless." The last episode of season 4... I think that one was actually my favorite... but the others mentioned are also awesome.
Everyone saying that, overall, Angel was better seem to be completely blocking out the first two seasons of that show. Those seasons were absolutely awful... if only by comparison. The show didn't find its voice until season 3.
Now this I disagree with. I though season 2 of Angel was arguably the best, while 3 was pretty bad.
First, you can't have an awesome Buffy discussion without mentioning "Restless." The last episode of season 4... I think that one was actually my favorite... but the others mentioned are also awesome.
Everyone saying that, overall, Angel was better seem to be completely blocking out the first two seasons of that show. Those seasons were absolutely awful... if only by comparison. The show didn't find its voice until season 3.
The second season was fine, but the first was sort of weak. It was like the show didn't know how to write for Angel outside his context as Buffy's True Love. And the Irish wank from the first half of that season was so meh. Everything started to come into place once Westley showed up, and my favorite episodes all happened once Fred entered the picture.
I also loved that the law firm was a staple throughout the show's run, as opposed to the Buffy tactic of wiping out the cast of bad guys after each season.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
First, you can't have an awesome Buffy discussion without mentioning "Restless." The last episode of season 4... I think that one was actually my favorite... but the others mentioned are also awesome.
Everyone saying that, overall, Angel was better seem to be completely blocking out the first two seasons of that show. Those seasons were absolutely awful... if only by comparison. The show didn't find its voice until season 3.
The second season was fine, but the first was sort of weak. It was like the show didn't know how to write for Angel outside his context as Buffy's True Love. And the Irish wank from the first half of that season was so meh. Everything started to come into place once Westley showed up, and my favorite episodes all happened once Fred entered the picture.
I also loved that the law firm was a staple throughout the show's run, as opposed to the Buffy tactic of wiping out the cast of bad guys after each season.
I'm just getting these horrible flash backs in my mind from those early seasons... Cordilia getting impregnated by a demon, the trip to Lorne's home dimension (seriously? This gave us Fred, but it also gave us that reject from Hercules: The Legendary Journey). I did like when Angel went bad... that was a good arc (especially the scene at the Wolfram and Hart Wine Tasting) But overall, not great.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
A New Man is where Giles gets turned into a demon by Ethan
Something Blue is the episode where Willow does some ill advised magic and Giles goes blind, Buffy forgets who she is and falls in love with Spike, etc.
Harsh Light of Day is was Spike's return to the show, where he goes after the ring that will make him (or any vampire) invincible.
Who Are You? is when Buffy and Faith switch bodies.
and Superstar is the one where Jonathan casts a spell that makes him the best guy in the universe.
Season three of Buffy is probably the best of them all, and I'll tell you why. The first season was still new and a bit unsure of itself, the second re-evaluated itself and the result was better, and the third season just refined what they had learnt from the previous season. It just felt more confident and sparked more. I think that when they left the school is when they lost the cohesiveness of the show.
Angel was great. It had a wobbly fourth season but season five makes up for it and then some.
This news is interesting although I'm not nearly as much of a Whedon fan as I used to be.
That's one of the best. His gradual descent into bitter semi-insane semi-evilness. You could really see W&H fucking with his mind. And then you find out, that's pretty much their purpose. It sets an interesting tone for the show, that the villain isn't out to kill the hero, their out to corrupt him.
And Season 1 had some weak episodes, but it was still pretty good. It had enough strong ones to balance it out.
Ah yes, Superstar was really fun. Harsh Light of Day was kinda weak imo, though Spike coming back = awesome. Something Blue was great. And Who are You was pretty good too.
idk, i just didn't like the arc of S4 and it had some really terrible episodes. S2, S3, and S5 were much better.
First, you can't have an awesome Buffy discussion without mentioning "Restless." The last episode of season 4... I think that one was actually my favorite... but the others mentioned are also awesome.
Everyone saying that, overall, Angel was better seem to be completely blocking out the first two seasons of that show. Those seasons were absolutely awful... if only by comparison. The show didn't find its voice until season 3.
The second season was fine, but the first was sort of weak. It was like the show didn't know how to write for Angel outside his context as Buffy's True Love. And the Irish wank from the first half of that season was so meh. Everything started to come into place once Westley showed up, and my favorite episodes all happened once Fred entered the picture.
I also loved that the law firm was a staple throughout the show's run, as opposed to the Buffy tactic of wiping out the cast of bad guys after each season.
I'm just getting these horrible flash backs in my mind from those early seasons... Cordilia getting impregnated by a demon, the trip to Lorne's home dimension (seriously? This gave us Fred, but it also gave us that reject from Hercules: The Legendary Journey). I did like when Angel went bad... that was a good arc (especially the scene at the Wolfram and Hart Wine Tasting) But overall, not great.
The Lorne home dimension arc was done at the last minute because for whatever reason Juliet Landau and Julie Benz weren't availible for the end of the season. Dru and Darla were always intended to be the focus of S2. I agree with you it felt a bit out of place next to the awesomeness of the rest of the season. But I thought Wes manning up to take over Angel investigations and the rift between Angel and his friends was amazing stuff.
The rest of the stuff you listed was all in season 1
So far i haven't really disliked much of Angel... Except for some individual episodes (like the cordy preggers one). The only part i havent' really liked is Conor, but even he seems to be getting a little better. Or maybe that's wishful thinking.
Connor was a toolbox. I never liked him, even after his rehabilitation.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Well, that is kinda the point. Connor's a teenager. Whiny, self-absorbed and you just want to punch him in the face and tell him to shut the fuck up. He was a well done character.
Joss Whedon actually seems pretty optimistic about Dollhouse considering that most of the people who cancelled Firefly have stopped working there in the 5/6 years since then.
Posts
Angel had the muppet episode.
That was fantastic.
Buffy seasons 2-5 is basically the standard by which I judge every other TV series so I still consider Buffy the best of the three.
I think Buffy season 3 is basically the best 22 hours of television ever created.
One of the best episodes of anything in television's entire history. It's as classic, to me, as Abbott and Costello's "Who's On First?"
And Buffy Season 3... that was the one with the Mayor as the Big Bad, right? That *was* a fantastic season.
There's so many amazing stand alone episodes it's hard to pick a favorite. Zeppo and OMWF are definately up there. I also think The Body is one of the most ridiculously brutal episodes of TV ever. And Hush is great. And many more i can't think of off the top of my head.
He's a wee little puppet man!
It's pretty great. My favorite Buffy episode.
"Hey, they're not baking a cake!"
"Go for the heart!"
Anyway, I'm definitely giving this new show a shot. Loved Buffy, Angel, Firefly so he's got a pretty good track record in my estimation.
The episode where she chooses to keep her pre-cog power in order to save angel was brilliant. And her apperance in S5 showed how much of the comedy in angel depended on her.
though
"Where you even listening?"
Also, Loren is awesome.
I admit that Buffy Season 3 had an incredible narrative structure. I mean, it's no Babylon 5 or anything, what with the pre-planned 5 year story arc, but I don't think it was ever meant to be.
The big thing that Joss excels at is creating memorable characters, and that can carry a fandom a long way.
It's still true. He's super enigmatic. There is really no reason that Bones should be around still, it's a quirky CSI. *I* really like the show but it's not often what I like actually coincides with the majority. I reckon David Boreanaz is the load-bearing wall of that show. I reckon...
Everyone saying that, overall, Angel was better seem to be completely blocking out the first two seasons of that show. Those seasons were absolutely awful... if only by comparison. The show didn't find its voice until season 3.
I've been watching Angel one episode after another so it's hard for me to remember where each season starts/stops.
Now this I disagree with. I though season 2 of Angel was arguably the best, while 3 was pretty bad.
The second season was fine, but the first was sort of weak. It was like the show didn't know how to write for Angel outside his context as Buffy's True Love. And the Irish wank from the first half of that season was so meh. Everything started to come into place once Westley showed up, and my favorite episodes all happened once Fred entered the picture.
I also loved that the law firm was a staple throughout the show's run, as opposed to the Buffy tactic of wiping out the cast of bad guys after each season.
S4 actually has a lot of really good individual episodes.
Those 2, A New Man, Something Blue, The Harsh Light of Day, New Moon Rising, Who Are You?, even Superstar.
Just because it has Beer Bad and Where the Wild Things Are don't hold those against it!
Also I feel Adam had a lot of potential as a villian that was just never realized due to budgetary constraints.
I know New Moon Rising and A New Man.... but that's about it. And oh yes, i remember Beer Bad and Where the Wild things are.... Ugh.
I'm just getting these horrible flash backs in my mind from those early seasons... Cordilia getting impregnated by a demon, the trip to Lorne's home dimension (seriously? This gave us Fred, but it also gave us that reject from Hercules: The Legendary Journey). I did like when Angel went bad... that was a good arc (especially the scene at the Wolfram and Hart Wine Tasting) But overall, not great.
Something Blue is the episode where Willow does some ill advised magic and Giles goes blind, Buffy forgets who she is and falls in love with Spike, etc.
Harsh Light of Day is was Spike's return to the show, where he goes after the ring that will make him (or any vampire) invincible.
Who Are You? is when Buffy and Faith switch bodies.
and Superstar is the one where Jonathan casts a spell that makes him the best guy in the universe.
Angel was great. It had a wobbly fourth season but season five makes up for it and then some.
This news is interesting although I'm not nearly as much of a Whedon fan as I used to be.
idk, i just didn't like the arc of S4 and it had some really terrible episodes. S2, S3, and S5 were much better.
The Lorne home dimension arc was done at the last minute because for whatever reason Juliet Landau and Julie Benz weren't availible for the end of the season. Dru and Darla were always intended to be the focus of S2. I agree with you it felt a bit out of place next to the awesomeness of the rest of the season. But I thought Wes manning up to take over Angel investigations and the rift between Angel and his friends was amazing stuff.
The rest of the stuff you listed was all in season 1
There's very few Bumper stickers i've ever thought about getting, but the "Joss Whedon is my master" one is on the short list. As is Roslyn/Adama '08.
Yeah, that's when he gets good. Up till then he just causes trouble and pisses people off.