I really wish I had confidence that the democratic party isn't gonna fuck this all up somehow...
Don't worry, I'm assured that a Trump Presidency will open the eyes of the "sheeple" and bring about the glorious revolution, we're all good.
If accelerationism worked Bernie Sanders would be the Republican candidate after Bush's Presidency. We would be living in a futuristic utopia and Dick Cheney would be jailed in the phantom zone.
As with "trickle down economics", that just means we didn't do it right last time.
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
I'm not particularly enthused with the theory that It's good for democrats to have Trump as the republican nominee. In fact it slightly makes my blood boil.
We're talking about a man who has a security force composed of biker gangs that he intends to take to a convention where one of the other candidates can call out the national guard.
Does anyone else see this going horribly wrong? Just me? Ok.
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
I'm not particularly enthused with the theory that It's good for democrats to have Trump as the republican nominee. In fact it slightly makes my blood boil.
We're talking about a man who has a security force composed of biker gangs that he intends to take to a convention where one of the other candidates can call out the national guard.
Does anyone else see this going horribly wrong? Just me? Ok.
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
Right now Trump is doing well with the Republican base, this is a group of people significantly different than the group that votes in the general election.
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
Right now Trump is doing well with the Republican base, this is a group of people significantly different than the group that votes in the general election.
and a few months ago he was only doing well with the fringe crazies of the gop and would bow out as soon as it was clear that that wasn't a big enough demographic to win primaries
i said it before, i will not stop being afraid of him winning the presidency until the day he concedes or loses the general
PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
A small part of the reason I support Sanders is because he's been polling in the double digits above Trump.
Like, I don't want Trump to lose I want him to be crushed. I want a 50 state blowout. I want the message sent to Trump and his supporters that America isn't about that bullshit.
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
I am guessing its because, ideally you want the president of the greatest country in the world to be the greatest example of that nation's intellectual citizenry, rather than the one who is not a racist, warmongering hype-beast floating to the top of the polls on balloon of toxic mental miasma.
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
Right now Trump is doing well with the Republican base, this is a group of people significantly different than the group that votes in the general election.
The nation is pretty evenly split though among the two parties
And Trump seems to have energized Republicans, in a way which makes me think that a party that already has high turnout will have even higher turnout
Meanwhile, Sanders not winning will have deflated a not-insignificant number of Democrats, and there are plenty of Never Hillary people as well, that'll probably just abstain or do something smart-assed like writing in Bernie or something
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
Right now Trump is doing well with the Republican base, this is a group of people significantly different than the group that votes in the general election.
The nation is pretty evenly split though among the two parties
And Trump seems to have energized Republicans, in a way which makes me think that a party that already has high turnout will have even higher turnout
Meanwhile, Sanders not winning will have deflated a not-insignificant number of Democrats, and there are plenty of Never Hillary people as well, that'll probably just abstain or do something smart-assed like writing in Bernie or something
The country might be close to evenly split, but the distribution of voters gives Democrats an advantage in the electoral college and Trump has historically bad unfavorables with pretty much every group that isn't old white men
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
Right now Trump is doing well with the Republican base, this is a group of people significantly different than the group that votes in the general election.
and a few months ago he was only doing well with the fringe crazies of the gop and would bow out as soon as it was clear that that wasn't a big enough demographic to win primaries
i said it before, i will not stop being afraid of him winning the presidency until the day he concedes or loses the general
And if we're really worried about Bernie supporters not voting for Hillary, then we might as well worry about Hillary supporters not voting for Bernie in the extremely unlikely case he wins, in which case it doesn't matter who the Democratic nominee is, we're screwed.
Besides, Sanders might be going to the bitter end, but he's not as politically ambitious or morally bankrupt as the GOP nominees; once it becomes clear he doesn't have a path to victory, he'll probably encourage his supporters to vote for Hillary, if only to keep Trump from getting the nomination.
For the record, if you're a Sanders supporter who'd rather not vote and risk Trump getting elected because the alternative is voting for Hillary, what the fuck is wrong with you?
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
Right now Trump is doing well with the Republican base, this is a group of people significantly different than the group that votes in the general election.
and a few months ago he was only doing well with the fringe crazies of the gop and would bow out as soon as it was clear that that wasn't a big enough demographic to win primaries
i said it before, i will not stop being afraid of him winning the presidency until the day he concedes or loses the general
And if we're really worried about Bernie supporters not voting for Hillary, then we might as well worry about Hillary supporters not voting for Bernie in the extremely unlikely case he wins, in which case it doesn't matter who the Democratic nominee is, we're screwed.
Besides, Sanders might be going to the bitter end, but he's not as politically ambitious or morally bankrupt as the GOP nominees; once it becomes clear he doesn't have a path to victory, he'll probably encourage his supporters to vote for Hillary, if only to keep Trump from getting the nomination.
I'd like to believe this, but it became clear he didn't have a path to victory at the latest last Tuesday. If he keeps going after tonight, and all signs point to him doing so, I don't know if he is going to do shit for Hillary. Hell, when asked about it, he's been saying the responsibility is her's to attract his supporters if she's the nominee. This could just be "saving face" talk, but that's not what Bernie is suppose to be about.
For the record, if you're a Sanders supporter who'd rather not vote and risk Trump getting elected because the alternative is voting for Hillary, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Its still early in the primary, you have a bunch of loud assholes proclaiming that they'll burn the country down to save it, but come November after months of Trump saying Hillary only got to where she is because of her vagoo, most people will go out to vote that asshole into a crater.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The 08 primaries between Obama and Clinton were pretty contentious, too. I'll believe there's a significant amount of Sanders supporters who refuse to support Hillary in a general election against Trump when I see it.
The 08 primaries between Obama and Clinton were pretty contentious, too. I'll believe there's a significant amount of Sanders supporters who refuse to support Hillary in a general election against Trump when I see it.
I don't doubt that all those Ron Paul supporters which made their way to the bernie coalition were never going to vote for her in the first place
I've seen one, their argument was that Clinton is gonna win anyway so there's no harm in it.
Oh wait, and there was another that basically threw a tantrum and said they'd still vote for everything but the president.
I think they're right in assuming that Hillary will win, but even if Hillary is a lock there's still other stuff that needs every vote it can get.
Okay, well this is where everyone gets to dogpile on me, I guess.
I'm probably not voting for Hillary in the general. It's not a hate thing; let me be clear on that front. I just don't like her politics. I don't like how she's taken advantage of the free bribery Citizen's United has spawned. I don't like her tossing over a million dollars to have paid shills troll popular social media sites. On her record, I feel like a lot of it is sketchy.
At the end of the day, she doesn't belong on the Left in my opinion. In a just universe she would be the paragon of a sane Right where the Southern Strategy never happened and the only Tea Party people would talk about would be the one that took place in the 1700's. And that's not a bad thing, on balance. I think everyone would be better off if that party existed.
But I still wouldn't vote for it. At the end of the day, this nation has a lot of problems, and politics as usual is doing a damn fine job of addressing exactly none of them. Now, I have the luxury of not living in a swing state, so I don't have to sweat a protest vote. I'm highly skeptical of Clinton, but she could still get my vote. If she "swings to the center" for the general then there's basically no chance of that. But I'll do my civic duty and watch the debates and make a decision when the time comes.
The end result is that just because I voted in a primary doesn't mean my vote in the general is already cast, and shouldn't be taken for granted. I hate the idea of hostage voting, where one party is awful so the other can be just a little bit better (but still awful) and you have to choose the lesser evil or the bunny gets it. Fuck that. I'm not about it. And I know, I probably pissed a lot of you fine people off for admitting it, but there it is.
Okay, well this is where everyone gets to dogpile on me, I guess.
I'm probably not voting for Hillary in the general. It's not a hate thing; let me be clear on that front. I just don't like her politics. I don't like how she's taken advantage of the free bribery Citizen's United has spawned. I don't like her tossing over a million dollars to have paid shills troll popular social media sites. On her record, I feel like a lot of it is sketchy.
At the end of the day, she doesn't belong on the Left in my opinion. In a just universe she would be the paragon of a sane Right where the Southern Strategy never happened and the only Tea Party people would talk about would be the one that took place in the 1700's. And that's not a bad thing, on balance. I think everyone would be better off if that party existed.
But I still wouldn't vote for it. At the end of the day, this nation has a lot of problems, and politics as usual is doing a damn fine job of addressing exactly none of them. Now, I have the luxury of not living in a swing state, so I don't have to sweat a protest vote. I'm highly skeptical of Clinton, but she could still get my vote. If she "swings to the center" for the general then there's basically no chance of that. But I'll do my civic duty and watch the debates and make a decision when the time comes.
The end result is that just because I voted in a primary doesn't mean my vote in the general is already cast, and shouldn't be taken for granted. I hate the idea of hostage voting, where one party is awful so the other can be just a little bit better (but still awful) and you have to choose the lesser evil or the bunny gets it. Fuck that. I'm not about it. And I know, I probably pissed a lot of you fine people off for admitting it, but there it is.
I read somewhere today that Hillary and Sanders voted together 93% of the time. Their record isn't that different.
You can say it's "voting for the lesser evil" but when it comes down to it it's not. She's not "evil". She's not even that far off Bernie when it comes to her platform. She's "Good". Maybe not "Perfect", but neither is Bernie. I mean, people act like Hillary VS Trump would be like Grown Ups VS Grown Ups 2, when we're talking about Grown Ups VS Ghostbusters 2.
Why the hell would I vote Hillary when I know I'd be fighting a huge number of her policies
Because we have a bad electoral system that prevents anyone but representatives of the two biggest parties from having a snowball's chance in hell of winning the presidency, and voting for the candidate you don't like helps in a small way to keep fucking Donald trump or Ted Cruz from winning
On the other hand, you live in California so you're effectively going to vote for Hillary no matter what you do so you may as well check whatever box you like or just stay home because again, we have a bad electoral system
if you live in a safe state, vote for whoever the fuck you wanna. i live in wyoming, which is a bastion of republicanism and backwards hillbilly bullshit and will forevermore be, so i'm just gonna vote for Jill Stein.
The problem I have with Hillary is that she will fight congress for two years and spend two years running for reelection.
That is not what we need right now
The problem I have with Hillary is that she will fight congress for two years and spend two years running for reelection.
That is not what we need right now
What would Bernie do differently?
Because unless we get congress that's any president left of the Tea Party.
The problem I have with Hillary is that she will fight congress for two years and spend two years running for reelection.
That is not what we need right now
What would Bernie do differently?
Because unless we get congress that's any president left of the Tea Party.
At this point, I think you could make one of the Koch brothers president and members of congress in the tea party caucus would obstruct just out of habit.
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
Yeah uh,
any Democrat president is going to just be butting heads with Congress for the foreseeable future.
We're less voting for change and more voting to stop shit going backwards really.
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
Okay, well this is where everyone gets to dogpile on me, I guess.
I'm probably not voting for Hillary in the general. It's not a hate thing; let me be clear on that front. I just don't like her politics. I don't like how she's taken advantage of the free bribery Citizen's United has spawned. I don't like her tossing over a million dollars to have paid shills troll popular social media sites. On her record, I feel like a lot of it is sketchy.
At the end of the day, she doesn't belong on the Left in my opinion. In a just universe she would be the paragon of a sane Right where the Southern Strategy never happened and the only Tea Party people would talk about would be the one that took place in the 1700's. And that's not a bad thing, on balance. I think everyone would be better off if that party existed.
But I still wouldn't vote for it. At the end of the day, this nation has a lot of problems, and politics as usual is doing a damn fine job of addressing exactly none of them. Now, I have the luxury of not living in a swing state, so I don't have to sweat a protest vote. I'm highly skeptical of Clinton, but she could still get my vote. If she "swings to the center" for the general then there's basically no chance of that. But I'll do my civic duty and watch the debates and make a decision when the time comes.
The end result is that just because I voted in a primary doesn't mean my vote in the general is already cast, and shouldn't be taken for granted. I hate the idea of hostage voting, where one party is awful so the other can be just a little bit better (but still awful) and you have to choose the lesser evil or the bunny gets it. Fuck that. I'm not about it. And I know, I probably pissed a lot of you fine people off for admitting it, but there it is.
I think you're on the majority and not the minority side in this particular forum. I haven't seen many people support Hillary.
But I want to disagree with you pretty strongly on one part. You aren't a hostage by voting for someone who is the "lesser of two evils." You're voting for the person who best represents your views out of a given menu of options. If you're going to focus on what candidates disagree with you on instead of what they agree with you on, then obviously you're going to be disappointed that they don't perfectly share your ideological purity.
Politics is a process where you learn what other people want and balance that against what you want. By participating in the process you guarantee that you don't get everything you want in exchange for having your issues balanced against everyone elses. If you don't like that, then that's fine. The political process just isn't something you're going to be happy with; not under a two party system or under a parlimentary system, just, period.
Leaders who don't perfectly represent your interests aren't something created by politics; that's the problem politics is supposed to solve.
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
The problem I have with Hillary is that she will fight congress for two years and spend two years running for reelection.
That is not what we need right now
What would Bernie do differently?
Because unless we get congress that's any president left of the Tea Party.
I don't know
I know a large chunk of congress with just dick around as usual because of her and just to annoy her.
They'll do it to him too. Basically, they'll do it as long as the person in that office isn't theirs.
They're not being obstructionist to spite the president, they're doing so because they have no chance of pushing forward their agenda and trying to compromise leads to getting primaried from the Tea Party, so might as well play chicken over and over again in hopes that people will blame the executive branch (as far too many people do) instead of voting them out.
No I don't.
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
Okay, well this is where everyone gets to dogpile on me, I guess.
I'm probably not voting for Hillary in the general. It's not a hate thing; let me be clear on that front. I just don't like her politics. I don't like how she's taken advantage of the free bribery Citizen's United has spawned. I don't like her tossing over a million dollars to have paid shills troll popular social media sites. On her record, I feel like a lot of it is sketchy.
At the end of the day, she doesn't belong on the Left in my opinion. In a just universe she would be the paragon of a sane Right where the Southern Strategy never happened and the only Tea Party people would talk about would be the one that took place in the 1700's. And that's not a bad thing, on balance. I think everyone would be better off if that party existed.
But I still wouldn't vote for it. At the end of the day, this nation has a lot of problems, and politics as usual is doing a damn fine job of addressing exactly none of them. Now, I have the luxury of not living in a swing state, so I don't have to sweat a protest vote. I'm highly skeptical of Clinton, but she could still get my vote. If she "swings to the center" for the general then there's basically no chance of that. But I'll do my civic duty and watch the debates and make a decision when the time comes.
The end result is that just because I voted in a primary doesn't mean my vote in the general is already cast, and shouldn't be taken for granted. I hate the idea of hostage voting, where one party is awful so the other can be just a little bit better (but still awful) and you have to choose the lesser evil or the bunny gets it. Fuck that. I'm not about it. And I know, I probably pissed a lot of you fine people off for admitting it, but there it is.
I read somewhere today that Hillary and Sanders voted together 93% of the time. Their record isn't that different.
You can say it's "voting for the lesser evil" but when it comes down to it it's not. She's not "evil". She's not even that far off Bernie when it comes to her platform. She's "Good". Maybe not "Perfect", but neither is Bernie. I mean, people act like Hillary VS Trump would be like Grown Ups VS Grown Ups 2, when we're talking about Grown Ups VS Ghostbusters 2.
That line about 93% of the time is pretty misleading when you're talking about campaign finance reform and the undue influence of money in politics making up a lot of the remaining 7%. Say what you will about her talking points when she's a candidate her record of voting for the bankruptcy bill after taking large legalized bribes from the banking industry alone is enough to give me pause. Lobbying for opening up trade agreements with Panama on the false pretense of "creating jobs" allowing for the massive tax dodging is something I would expect out of an CNBC Republican, not the Democratic nominee. Her flipping on single payer health insurance after giving paid speeches to health and pharmaceutical companies is another thing that makes me doubt she's really going to turn on those who have given and continue to give hundreds of millions of dollars to her and her family.
So, no, it's not Grown Ups VS Grown Ups 2...but it is a money funneling scam just like Sandler's movies.
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
Okay, well this is where everyone gets to dogpile on me, I guess.
I'm probably not voting for Hillary in the general. It's not a hate thing; let me be clear on that front. I just don't like her politics. I don't like how she's taken advantage of the free bribery Citizen's United has spawned. I don't like her tossing over a million dollars to have paid shills troll popular social media sites. On her record, I feel like a lot of it is sketchy.
At the end of the day, she doesn't belong on the Left in my opinion. In a just universe she would be the paragon of a sane Right where the Southern Strategy never happened and the only Tea Party people would talk about would be the one that took place in the 1700's. And that's not a bad thing, on balance. I think everyone would be better off if that party existed.
But I still wouldn't vote for it. At the end of the day, this nation has a lot of problems, and politics as usual is doing a damn fine job of addressing exactly none of them. Now, I have the luxury of not living in a swing state, so I don't have to sweat a protest vote. I'm highly skeptical of Clinton, but she could still get my vote. If she "swings to the center" for the general then there's basically no chance of that. But I'll do my civic duty and watch the debates and make a decision when the time comes.
The end result is that just because I voted in a primary doesn't mean my vote in the general is already cast, and shouldn't be taken for granted. I hate the idea of hostage voting, where one party is awful so the other can be just a little bit better (but still awful) and you have to choose the lesser evil or the bunny gets it. Fuck that. I'm not about it. And I know, I probably pissed a lot of you fine people off for admitting it, but there it is.
I read somewhere today that Hillary and Sanders voted together 93% of the time. Their record isn't that different.
You can say it's "voting for the lesser evil" but when it comes down to it it's not. She's not "evil". She's not even that far off Bernie when it comes to her platform. She's "Good". Maybe not "Perfect", but neither is Bernie. I mean, people act like Hillary VS Trump would be like Grown Ups VS Grown Ups 2, when we're talking about Grown Ups VS Ghostbusters 2.
That line about 93% of the time is pretty misleading when you're talking about campaign finance reform and the undue influence of money in politics making up a lot of the remaining 7%. Say what you will about her talking points when she's a candidate her record of voting for the bankruptcy bill after taking large legalized bribes from the banking industry alone is enough to give me pause. Lobbying for opening up trade agreements with Panama on the false pretense of "creating jobs" allowing for the massive tax dodging is something I would expect out of an CNBC Republican, not the Democratic nominee. Her flipping on single payer health insurance after giving paid speeches to health and pharmaceutical companies is another thing that makes me doubt she's really going to turn on those who have given and continue to give hundreds of millions of dollars to her and her family.
So, no, it's not Grown Ups VS Grown Ups 2...but it is a money funneling scam just like Sandler's movies.
I'm not sure what the last time a company did an inversion in Panama was. I thought that usually it was Ireland. I could be wrong. CNBC Republicans wouldn't care about that type of thing. You must be thinking of MSNBC Republicans. I'd need to see what impact that actually had on tax dodging and on what types of individuals to make a decision about it. I do know that for the most part everyone actually just uses Delaware for that.
Joking aside, money buys a lot of things, but one of the funny things about this election cycle: we found out it doesn't actually buy votes in an election. Ask the Koch brothers where the money they spent this year went to. This doesn't answer the question of whether or not money affected her vote on the bankruptcy bill, but we'll get there later.
That brings us to single payer. Hillary Clinton has been on the national stage since 1992, during the infamous days of the ill fated "Hillarycare." Of course her policy position might change between 1992 and 2016. Why precisely should she try to double down on something that went no where? Why would she try to scrap the health care reform that her predecessor somehow miracle'd into existence and take up an inverted phantom liberal form of repeal and replace?
The bankruptcy bill itself looks pretty eh but ultimately I actually think she was awesome. She voted for it when it wouldn't pass and then would have voted against it when it would in 2005 when she had a bit of a better warchest; although she was absent in 2005 because her presence wasn't going to affect it.
This was the perfect crime. She didn't take money from the banking industry. She robbed it and they paid her for the privilege of being robbed.
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
i'm nervous about trump getting the nom because i've been told by people from all over the political spectrum that he's doomed to crash and burn any day now and it just keeps not happening so saying "yeah don't worry if trump wins the nomination hillary will kick his ass" does nothing to reassure me whatsoever
Don't get me wrong, I still think Trump will not win a general election. That being said, it is really uncomfortable that he's currently the second most likely, no matter how unlikely that actually is, person to become our next president. Like, it horrifies me to my bones. It horrifies me in the way I imagine people over 70 get horrified at the phrase "interracial couple," or how I must imagine the terms "Muslims" and "Atheists" horrify most of the GOP.
Posts
As with "trickle down economics", that just means we didn't do it right last time.
We're talking about a man who has a security force composed of biker gangs that he intends to take to a convention where one of the other candidates can call out the national guard.
Does anyone else see this going horribly wrong? Just me? Ok.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Not for the Democrats
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Right now Trump is doing well with the Republican base, this is a group of people significantly different than the group that votes in the general election.
and a few months ago he was only doing well with the fringe crazies of the gop and would bow out as soon as it was clear that that wasn't a big enough demographic to win primaries
i said it before, i will not stop being afraid of him winning the presidency until the day he concedes or loses the general
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Like, I don't want Trump to lose I want him to be crushed. I want a 50 state blowout. I want the message sent to Trump and his supporters that America isn't about that bullshit.
I am guessing its because, ideally you want the president of the greatest country in the world to be the greatest example of that nation's intellectual citizenry, rather than the one who is not a racist, warmongering hype-beast floating to the top of the polls on balloon of toxic mental miasma.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
The nation is pretty evenly split though among the two parties
And Trump seems to have energized Republicans, in a way which makes me think that a party that already has high turnout will have even higher turnout
Meanwhile, Sanders not winning will have deflated a not-insignificant number of Democrats, and there are plenty of Never Hillary people as well, that'll probably just abstain or do something smart-assed like writing in Bernie or something
Trump's still about 400 delegates away, so it depends on whether or not Kasich and Cruz's plan to try and win the last two primaries actually works.
Which, considering how the election has gone for them so far, is an unlikely scenario. To say the least.
The country might be close to evenly split, but the distribution of voters gives Democrats an advantage in the electoral college and Trump has historically bad unfavorables with pretty much every group that isn't old white men
Except there's a fairly significant body of research that suggests Hillary has a far better chance in the general than Trump. And the GOP basically handed Trump the election by turning their primary system into a complete and total clown show with eighteen different candidates, which is definitely not something that's likely to happen in the general.
And if we're really worried about Bernie supporters not voting for Hillary, then we might as well worry about Hillary supporters not voting for Bernie in the extremely unlikely case he wins, in which case it doesn't matter who the Democratic nominee is, we're screwed.
Besides, Sanders might be going to the bitter end, but he's not as politically ambitious or morally bankrupt as the GOP nominees; once it becomes clear he doesn't have a path to victory, he'll probably encourage his supporters to vote for Hillary, if only to keep Trump from getting the nomination.
As I recall the closest Mitt came to leading was right after the first debate. That was just a slight dip though.
I'd like to believe this, but it became clear he didn't have a path to victory at the latest last Tuesday. If he keeps going after tonight, and all signs point to him doing so, I don't know if he is going to do shit for Hillary. Hell, when asked about it, he's been saying the responsibility is her's to attract his supporters if she's the nominee. This could just be "saving face" talk, but that's not what Bernie is suppose to be about.
Its still early in the primary, you have a bunch of loud assholes proclaiming that they'll burn the country down to save it, but come November after months of Trump saying Hillary only got to where she is because of her vagoo, most people will go out to vote that asshole into a crater.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I don't doubt that all those Ron Paul supporters which made their way to the bernie coalition were never going to vote for her in the first place
Oh wait, and there was another that basically threw a tantrum and said they'd still vote for everything but the president.
I think they're right in assuming that Hillary will win, but even if Hillary is a lock there's still other stuff that needs every vote it can get.
I'm probably not voting for Hillary in the general. It's not a hate thing; let me be clear on that front. I just don't like her politics. I don't like how she's taken advantage of the free bribery Citizen's United has spawned. I don't like her tossing over a million dollars to have paid shills troll popular social media sites. On her record, I feel like a lot of it is sketchy.
At the end of the day, she doesn't belong on the Left in my opinion. In a just universe she would be the paragon of a sane Right where the Southern Strategy never happened and the only Tea Party people would talk about would be the one that took place in the 1700's. And that's not a bad thing, on balance. I think everyone would be better off if that party existed.
But I still wouldn't vote for it. At the end of the day, this nation has a lot of problems, and politics as usual is doing a damn fine job of addressing exactly none of them. Now, I have the luxury of not living in a swing state, so I don't have to sweat a protest vote. I'm highly skeptical of Clinton, but she could still get my vote. If she "swings to the center" for the general then there's basically no chance of that. But I'll do my civic duty and watch the debates and make a decision when the time comes.
The end result is that just because I voted in a primary doesn't mean my vote in the general is already cast, and shouldn't be taken for granted. I hate the idea of hostage voting, where one party is awful so the other can be just a little bit better (but still awful) and you have to choose the lesser evil or the bunny gets it. Fuck that. I'm not about it. And I know, I probably pissed a lot of you fine people off for admitting it, but there it is.
I read somewhere today that Hillary and Sanders voted together 93% of the time. Their record isn't that different.
You can say it's "voting for the lesser evil" but when it comes down to it it's not. She's not "evil". She's not even that far off Bernie when it comes to her platform. She's "Good". Maybe not "Perfect", but neither is Bernie. I mean, people act like Hillary VS Trump would be like Grown Ups VS Grown Ups 2, when we're talking about Grown Ups VS Ghostbusters 2.
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Could you elaborate?
because the alternative is Trump
Because we have a bad electoral system that prevents anyone but representatives of the two biggest parties from having a snowball's chance in hell of winning the presidency, and voting for the candidate you don't like helps in a small way to keep fucking Donald trump or Ted Cruz from winning
On the other hand, you live in California so you're effectively going to vote for Hillary no matter what you do so you may as well check whatever box you like or just stay home because again, we have a bad electoral system
http://www.audioentropy.com/
if you live in a safe state, vote for whoever the fuck you wanna. i live in wyoming, which is a bastion of republicanism and backwards hillbilly bullshit and will forevermore be, so i'm just gonna vote for Jill Stein.
That is not what we need right now
What would Bernie do differently?
Because unless we get congress that's any president left of the Tea Party.
At this point, I think you could make one of the Koch brothers president and members of congress in the tea party caucus would obstruct just out of habit.
any Democrat president is going to just be butting heads with Congress for the foreseeable future.
We're less voting for change and more voting to stop shit going backwards really.
I think you're on the majority and not the minority side in this particular forum. I haven't seen many people support Hillary.
But I want to disagree with you pretty strongly on one part. You aren't a hostage by voting for someone who is the "lesser of two evils." You're voting for the person who best represents your views out of a given menu of options. If you're going to focus on what candidates disagree with you on instead of what they agree with you on, then obviously you're going to be disappointed that they don't perfectly share your ideological purity.
Politics is a process where you learn what other people want and balance that against what you want. By participating in the process you guarantee that you don't get everything you want in exchange for having your issues balanced against everyone elses. If you don't like that, then that's fine. The political process just isn't something you're going to be happy with; not under a two party system or under a parlimentary system, just, period.
Leaders who don't perfectly represent your interests aren't something created by politics; that's the problem politics is supposed to solve.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
I don't know
I know a large chunk of congress with just dick around as usual because of her and just to annoy her.
They're not being obstructionist to spite the president, they're doing so because they have no chance of pushing forward their agenda and trying to compromise leads to getting primaried from the Tea Party, so might as well play chicken over and over again in hopes that people will blame the executive branch (as far too many people do) instead of voting them out.
That line about 93% of the time is pretty misleading when you're talking about campaign finance reform and the undue influence of money in politics making up a lot of the remaining 7%. Say what you will about her talking points when she's a candidate her record of voting for the bankruptcy bill after taking large legalized bribes from the banking industry alone is enough to give me pause. Lobbying for opening up trade agreements with Panama on the false pretense of "creating jobs" allowing for the massive tax dodging is something I would expect out of an CNBC Republican, not the Democratic nominee. Her flipping on single payer health insurance after giving paid speeches to health and pharmaceutical companies is another thing that makes me doubt she's really going to turn on those who have given and continue to give hundreds of millions of dollars to her and her family.
So, no, it's not Grown Ups VS Grown Ups 2...but it is a money funneling scam just like Sandler's movies.
I'm not sure what the last time a company did an inversion in Panama was. I thought that usually it was Ireland. I could be wrong. CNBC Republicans wouldn't care about that type of thing. You must be thinking of MSNBC Republicans. I'd need to see what impact that actually had on tax dodging and on what types of individuals to make a decision about it. I do know that for the most part everyone actually just uses Delaware for that.
Joking aside, money buys a lot of things, but one of the funny things about this election cycle: we found out it doesn't actually buy votes in an election. Ask the Koch brothers where the money they spent this year went to. This doesn't answer the question of whether or not money affected her vote on the bankruptcy bill, but we'll get there later.
That brings us to single payer. Hillary Clinton has been on the national stage since 1992, during the infamous days of the ill fated "Hillarycare." Of course her policy position might change between 1992 and 2016. Why precisely should she try to double down on something that went no where? Why would she try to scrap the health care reform that her predecessor somehow miracle'd into existence and take up an inverted phantom liberal form of repeal and replace?
The bankruptcy bill itself looks pretty eh but ultimately I actually think she was awesome. She voted for it when it wouldn't pass and then would have voted against it when it would in 2005 when she had a bit of a better warchest; although she was absent in 2005 because her presence wasn't going to affect it.
This was the perfect crime. She didn't take money from the banking industry. She robbed it and they paid her for the privilege of being robbed.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.