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The Grand Unified Thread for [Game of Thrones] (Book spoiler guidelines in OP)

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    how did shireen get greyscale anyways?

    follow my music twitter soundcloud tumblr
    9pr1GIh.jpg?1
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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    Podly wrote: »
    how did shireen get greyscale anyways?

    In the last season of the show, it's explained that some merchant gave her a toy as a gift, and the toy had greyscale stuff on it, and she got infected after playing with it. So basically an assassination attempt / biological weapon attack by some asshole who didn't like Stannis or the Baratheons.

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    Podly wrote: »
    how did shireen get greyscale anyways?

    In the last season of the show, it's explained that some merchant gave her a toy as a gift, and the toy had greyscale stuff on it, and she got infected after playing with it. So basically an assassination attempt / biological weapon attack by some asshole who didn't like Stannis or the Baratheons.

    I think the real interesting question is how they managed to stop the spread of the scale. I think the show only mentioned the huge time and effort involved, but no details.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Options
    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Smurph wrote: »
    Podly wrote: »
    how did shireen get greyscale anyways?

    In the last season of the show, it's explained that some merchant gave her a toy as a gift, and the toy had greyscale stuff on it, and she got infected after playing with it. So basically an assassination attempt / biological weapon attack by some asshole who didn't like Stannis or the Baratheons.

    I think the real interesting question is how they managed to stop the spread of the scale. I think the show only mentioned the huge time and effort involved, but no details.

    Yeah that is definitely a big deal and makes Shireen special. It's kind of implied that magic was involved.

    Possible Winds stuff:
    If they burn Shireen to bring Jon back, lots of people say that would satisfy Mel's "Wake dragons from stone" prophecy since Jon is a Targ and greyscale makes your skin stone-like. But of course Mel wouldn't realize that god Mel you're so dumb.

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    JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    Yea, that feels like a huge distance from where he was when last we saw him. Not sure how to get to there from here.

    Bear in mind the story of how azor ahais sword was forged.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Jeedan wrote: »
    Yea, that feels like a huge distance from where he was when last we saw him. Not sure how to get to there from here.

    Bear in mind the story of how azor ahais sword was forged.

    Book:
    My concerns aren't with the magical logic of it so much as the character of BookStannis as well as basic logistics.

    Stannis isn't really a True Believer and is also like half a continent away from Shireen at the moment.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    All of the fantasy stuff has become really goofy in a way that undermines the serious stuff.

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    HeirHeir Ausitn, TXRegistered User regular
    Not sure if it's been mentioned with regards to the Ironborns in the show:
    Some people seemed mad that the followers of Euron would be willing to kill his niece and nephew.

    But...remember during the Kingsmoot that Theon (or maybe his sister, I can't remember which) specifically accuse Euron of killing their father and say they should execute him. So while it's not perfect, it does lend some understandability of why people would be willing to kill them...they had already insinuated if Yara won she would have Euron killed.

    camo_sig2.png
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    BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Heir wrote: »
    Not sure if it's been mentioned with regards to the Ironborns in the show:
    Some people seemed mad that the followers of Euron would be willing to kill his niece and nephew.

    But...remember during the Kingsmoot that Theon (or maybe his sister, I can't remember which) specifically accuse Euron of killing their father and say they should execute him. So while it's not perfect, it does lend some understandability of why people would be willing to kill them...they had already insinuated if Yara won she would have Euron killed.
    Yeah, she'd have Euron killed. For regicide, because he killed Balon.

    Also, kinslaying has a special taboo in Westeros. That shit's like double murder.

    Bobble on
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    Not sure if it's been mentioned with regards to the Ironborns in the show:
    Some people seemed mad that the followers of Euron would be willing to kill his niece and nephew.

    But...remember during the Kingsmoot that Theon (or maybe his sister, I can't remember which) specifically accuse Euron of killing their father and say they should execute him. So while it's not perfect, it does lend some understandability of why people would be willing to kill them...they had already insinuated if Yara won she would have Euron killed.
    Yeah, she'd have Euron killed. For regicide, because he killed Balon.

    Also, kinslaying has a special taboo in Westeros. That shit's like double murder.
    Show Euron
    In his defense, the guy ran on the Kinslaying platform and the people voted for him in a landslide. He pretty much has to kill them now or the Iron Press is going to have a field day about his do-nothing administration.

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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    So, about Show Euron:
    He's a rich 'outsider' who proudly proclaims to have done awful things, an interest in doing more awful things, and declared that he will construct a yuuuuuuge fleet to make Westeros great again?

    Yes yes, being a Lannister with golden hair and an unsettling... affection for a family member is also fitting, but given some of the bullshit I've seen about him failing to settle on fees, he certainly doesn't always pay his debts.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    MuffinatronMuffinatron Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    In terms of show euron, in the books:
    He kills one of the king candidates after the moot for refusing to follow him. I imagine going after Theon and Asha (sorry, Yara) is a similar kind of deal. Get behind me or get dead. Though it could've been handled better.

    Muffinatron on
    PSN: Holy-Promethium
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    Show Euron blows.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Hachface wrote: »
    Show Euron blows.

    No, he doesn't have a horn in this one.

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Hachface wrote: »
    Show Euron blows.

    No, he doesn't have a horn in this one.

    I was looking forward to that actually heh.

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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Smurph wrote: »
    Podly wrote: »
    how did shireen get greyscale anyways?

    In the last season of the show, it's explained that some merchant gave her a toy as a gift, and the toy had greyscale stuff on it, and she got infected after playing with it. So basically an assassination attempt / biological weapon attack by some asshole who didn't like Stannis or the Baratheons.

    I think the real interesting question is how they managed to stop the spread of the scale. I think the show only mentioned the huge time and effort involved, but no details.

    greyscale is only 100% fatal if you're an adult. kids often survive it

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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    .
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Smurph wrote: »
    Podly wrote: »
    how did shireen get greyscale anyways?

    In the last season of the show, it's explained that some merchant gave her a toy as a gift, and the toy had greyscale stuff on it, and she got infected after playing with it. So basically an assassination attempt / biological weapon attack by some asshole who didn't like Stannis or the Baratheons.

    I think the real interesting question is how they managed to stop the spread of the scale. I think the show only mentioned the huge time and effort involved, but no details.

    greyscale is only 100% fatal if you're an adult. kids often survive it

    It's kind of like if zombie virus mixed with chicken pox.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Hachface wrote: »
    Show Euron blows.

    Show Euron is a victim of the show runners being unwilling to keep too many balls in the air at once and dropping the iron islands plot line for a couple years. See also: the Riverlands and the Blackfish and "whoops they took Riverrun with some army which we didn't know was there."

    Book spoilers that totally aren't spoilers, just comparisons of when things happen.
    Show folks, remember those leeches? Balon's the first one of the three Kings to die. The Kingsmoot happens while Theon's first getting tortured.

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    I made a thing, and it's mostly this threads fault.
    qlbEVkzm.jpg

    All because of this:
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Whoa. Saw this blog post from April 2014 (hell, I even checked the Wayback Machine to make sure there wasn't some kind of temporal tampering, it was first captured in July 2014) relating to the big reveal from tonight:
    https://ventrellaquest.com/2014/04/20/got-got/
    Martin: (laughing) You don’t know how close to the truth you are!

    Doodmann on
    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Show Euron blows.

    Show Euron is a victim of the show runners being unwilling to keep too many balls in the air at once and dropping the iron islands plot line for a couple years. See also: the Riverlands and the Blackfish and "whoops they took Riverrun with some army which we didn't know was there."

    Book spoilers that totally aren't spoilers, just comparisons of when things happen.
    Show folks, remember those leeches? Balon's the first one of the three Kings to die. The Kingsmoot happens while Theon's first getting tortured.

    Conservation of Characters and Keeping it Simple have done a few nasty things to the story they are adapting over the years.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Hachface wrote: »
    Show Euron blows.

    So does book Euron! Actually all the Iron Islanders are boring.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    MuffinatronMuffinatron Registered User regular
    Actually all the Iron Islanders are boring.
    Victarion would like to have a word.

    PSN: Holy-Promethium
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    Hachface wrote: »
    Show Euron blows.

    So does book Euron! Actually all the Iron Islanders are boring.

    Why must you turn this thread into a house of lies

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    simonwolfsimonwolf i can feel a difference today, a differenceRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    I made a thing, and it's mostly this threads fault.
    http://i.imgur.com/qlbEVkz.jpg

    All because of this:
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Whoa. Saw this blog post from April 2014 (hell, I even checked the Wayback Machine to make sure there wasn't some kind of temporal tampering, it was first captured in July 2014) relating to the big reveal from tonight:
    https://ventrellaquest.com/2014/04/20/got-got/
    Martin: (laughing) You don’t know how close to the truth you are!

    psst @Doodman just fyi your picture is over 500kb and could get you dinged

    (also it's really good!)

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Fixed it, I just wanted you to see the detail!

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Watching episode 5 again with my wife. Something I missed on the first time through:
    The Faceless Men founded Braavos?!

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Watching episode 5 again with my wife. Something I missed on the first time through:
    The Faceless Men founded Braavos?!

    It makes sense since
    they're apparently completely above the law

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Actually all the Iron Islanders are boring.
    Victarion would like to have a word.

    (Book)
    Emo rape Viking is not more interesting than regular rape Viking.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Rape Viking. I like that.

    My friend and I have been calling them Hillbilly Pirates.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Watching episode 5 again with my wife. Something I missed on the first time through:
    The Faceless Men founded Braavos?!

    It makes sense since
    they're apparently completely above the law

    Yea, books...
    Yeah, it explains the utter reverence that the Braavosi have towards them. Oh yeah, the masters they mention?

    More Books
    Valaryians. Implied they're behind some of the explosions that wrecked the place.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Faceless Men (book info):
    The show greatly simplified and, in my opinion, cheapened the Faceless Men's origins. The way the show tells it is that the Faceless Men were some sort of Slave Liberation grouo rebelling against their masters in Old Valyria. That origin doesn't really explain their religious adherence to death or the fact that they will literally kill anyone if the proper tribute is paid.

    In the book, it's told that the first Faceless Man was a Valyrian noble. Day after day he'd hear slaves praying to their gods for death, so that they could be spared the terrible life they led under their Valyrian masters. The Many Faced God comes from the noble's observations. These slaves were praying to all these different gods, but they were all wishing for the same thing: death and freedom. Thus the belief that there's only one God and he wears many faces.

    The noble, with his newfound religious enlightenment, began to do the Many Faced God's work by killing the slaves who prayed for it. Then, one day, he heard a slave praying for death, but not his own. This slave prayed for the death of his master. The noble approached the slave and told him that he'd kill the master if, and only if, the slave devoted his life to the Many Faces God and joined in his work.

    It's probably my favorite piece of history in ASoIaF. Not sure why they even changed it, it wouldn't have taken much more dialogue, and it explains the Faceless Men's ways, it just makes sense.

    Zomro on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Zomro wrote: »
    Faceless Men (book info):
    The show greatly simplified and, in my opinion, cheapened the Faceless Men's origins. The way the show tells it is that the Faceless Men were some sort of Slave Liberation grouo rebelling against their masters in Old Valyria. That origin doesn't really explain their religious adherence to death or the fact that they will literally kill anyone if the proper tribute is paid.

    In the book, it's told that the first Faceless Man was a Valyrian noble. Day after day he'd hear slaves praying to their gods for death, so that they could be spared the terrible life they led under their Valyrian masters. The Many Faced God comes from the noble's observations. These slaves were praying to all these different gods, but they were all wishing for the same thing: death and freedom. Thus the belief that there's only one God and he wears many faces.

    The noble, with his newfound religious enlightenment, began to do the Many Faced God's work by killing the slaves who prayed for it. Then, one day, he heard a slave praying for death, but not his own. This slave prayed for the death of his master. The noble approached the slave and told him that he'd kill the master if, and only if, the slave devoted his life to the Many Faces God and joined in his work.

    It's probably my favorite piece of history in ASoIaF. Not sure why they even changed it, it wouldn't have taken much more dialogue, and it explains the Faceless Men's ways, it just makes sense.

    Didn't the books also imply
    That the Faceless Men may have triggered the Doom?

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I might have missed it but did the show say what their price was
    If I remember the books right, their price depends on the person, a begger might have a person killed for giving them the wheeled board he uses to get around on where as a nobel would have to give them all of the coin in his treasury

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    I might have missed it but did the show say what their price was
    If I remember the books right, their price depends on the person, a begger might have a person killed for giving them the wheeled board he uses to get around on where as a nobel would have to give them all of the coin in his treasury

    That's my favorite part of their mythos.
    Zomro wrote: »
    Faceless Men (book info):
    The show greatly simplified and, in my opinion, cheapened the Faceless Men's origins. The way the show tells it is that the Faceless Men were some sort of Slave Liberation grouo rebelling against their masters in Old Valyria. That origin doesn't really explain their religious adherence to death or the fact that they will literally kill anyone if the proper tribute is paid.

    In the book, it's told that the first Faceless Man was a Valyrian noble. Day after day he'd hear slaves praying to their gods for death, so that they could be spared the terrible life they led under their Valyrian masters. The Many Faced God comes from the noble's observations. These slaves were praying to all these different gods, but they were all wishing for the same thing: death and freedom. Thus the belief that there's only one God and he wears many faces.

    The noble, with his newfound religious enlightenment, began to do the Many Faced God's work by killing the slaves who prayed for it. Then, one day, he heard a slave praying for death, but not his own. This slave prayed for the death of his master. The noble approached the slave and told him that he'd kill the master if, and only if, the slave devoted his life to the Many Faces God and joined in his work.

    It's probably my favorite piece of history in ASoIaF. Not sure why they even changed it, it wouldn't have taken much more dialogue, and it explains the Faceless Men's ways, it just makes sense.

    Didn't the books also imply
    That the Faceless Men may have triggered the Doom?
    Unclear. There was an implication, but the MFG gets credit for all deaths. There was also talk of the Valyrians messing with something terrible and previously unknown in those mines.

    Or it was just a natural Krakatoa^10 geological event.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I might have missed it but did the show say what their price was
    If I remember the books right, their price depends on the person, a begger might have a person killed for giving them the wheeled board he uses to get around on where as a nobel would have to give them all of the coin in his treasury

    I loved the idea that it wasn't really a price, it was a sacrifice. A meaningless sacrifice isn't really a sacrifice.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Zomro wrote: »
    Faceless Men (book info):
    The show greatly simplified and, in my opinion, cheapened the Faceless Men's origins. The way the show tells it is that the Faceless Men were some sort of Slave Liberation grouo rebelling against their masters in Old Valyria. That origin doesn't really explain their religious adherence to death or the fact that they will literally kill anyone if the proper tribute is paid.

    In the book, it's told that the first Faceless Man was a Valyrian noble. Day after day he'd hear slaves praying to their gods for death, so that they could be spared the terrible life they led under their Valyrian masters. The Many Faced God comes from the noble's observations. These slaves were praying to all these different gods, but they were all wishing for the same thing: death and freedom. Thus the belief that there's only one God and he wears many faces.

    The noble, with his newfound religious enlightenment, began to do the Many Faced God's work by killing the slaves who prayed for it. Then, one day, he heard a slave praying for death, but not his own. This slave prayed for the death of his master. The noble approached the slave and told him that he'd kill the master if, and only if, the slave devoted his life to the Many Faces God and joined in his work.

    It's probably my favorite piece of history in ASoIaF. Not sure why they even changed it, it wouldn't have taken much more dialogue, and it explains the Faceless Men's ways, it just makes sense.


    Not really? The show's interpretation is basically as valid and supported by the books as yours.

    A Feast For Crows Chapter 22

    It is possible that the first Faceless Man took the slave's life as price for killing his master, but there's no evidence of that in the books, and there's nothing definite saying that the first Faceless man was originally a noble.
    "What kind of tale?" She asked, wary.

    "The tale of beginnings. If you would be one of us, you had best know who we are and how we came to be. Men may whisper of the Faceless Men of Braavos, but we are older than the Secret City. Before the Titan rose, before the Unmasking of Uthero, before the Founding, we were. We have flowered in Braavos amongst these northern fogs, but we first took root in Valyria, amongst the wretched slaves who toiled in the deep mines beneath the Fourteen Flames that lit the Freehold's nights of old. Most mines are dank and chilly places, but from cold dead stone, but the Fourteen Flames were living mountains with veins of molten rock and hearts of fire. So the miners of old Valyria were always hot, and they grew hotter as the shafts were driven deeper, ever deeper. The slaves toiled in an oven. The rocks around them were too hot to touch. The air stank of brimstone and would sear their lungs as they breathed it. The soles of their feet would burn and blister, even through the thickest sandals. Sometimes, when they broke through a wall in search of gold, they would find steam instead, or boiling water, or molten rock. Certain shafts were cut so low that the slaves could not stand upright, but had to crawl or bend. An there were wyrms in that red darkness too."

    "Earthworms?" she asked, frowning.

    "Firewyrms. Some say they are akin to dragons, for wyrms breathe fire too. Instead of soaring through the sky, they bore through stone and soil. If the old tales can be believed, there were wyrms amongst the Fourteen Flames even before the dragons came. The young ones are no larger than that skinny arm of yours, but they can grow to monstrous size and have no love for me."

    "Did they kill the slaves?"

    "Burnt and blackened corpses were oft found in shafts where the rocks were cracked or full of holes. Yet still the mines drove deeper. Slaves perished by the score, but their masters did not care. Red gold and yellow gold and silver were reckoned to be more precious than the lives of slaves, for slaves were cheap in the old Freehold. During war, the Valyrians took them by the thousands. In times of peace they bred them, though only the worst were sent down to die in the red darkness."

    "Didn't the slaves rise up and fight?"

    "Some did," he said, "Revolts were common in the mines, but few accomplished much. The dragonlords of the old Freehold were strong in sorcery, and lesser men defied them at their peril. The first Faceless Man was one who did."

    "Who was he?" Arya blurted, before she stopped to think.

    "No one," he answered. "Some say he was a slave himself. Others insist he was a freeholder's son, born of noble stock. Some will even tell you he was an overseer who took pity on his charges. The truth is, no one knows. Whoever he was, he moved amongst the slaves and would hear them at their prayers. Men of a hundred different nations labored in the mines, and each prayed to his own god in his own tongue, yet all were praying for the same thing. It was release they asked for, an end to pain. A small thing, and simple. Yet their gods made no answer, and their suffering went on. Are their gods all deaf? he wondered . . . until a realization came upon him, one night in the red darkness.

    "All gods have their instruments, men and women who serve them and help to work their will on earth. The slaves were not crying out to a hundred different gods, as it seemed, but to one god with a hundred different faces . . . and he was that god's instrument. That very night he chose the most wretched of the slaves, the one who had prayed most earnestly for release, and freed him from his bondage. The first gift had been given."

    "Arya drew back from him. "He killed the slave?" That did not sound right. "He should have killed the masters!"

    "He would bring the gift to them as well . . . but that is a tale fro another day, one best shared with no one." He cocked his head. "And who are you, child?"
    I might have missed it but did the show say what their price was
    If I remember the books right, their price depends on the person, a begger might have a person killed for giving them the wheeled board he uses to get around on where as a nobel would have to give them all of the coin in his treasury
    It was in general 2/3 of everything you have in life. For poor people that generally means their life, for rich they can usually pay and live.

    In one of Arya and the Waif's "Am I lying?" game things, the waif tells a story about her father buying a faceless man, and says that the house of black and white took all of his wealth in exchange. Arya says that was a lie, and the house of black and white only took 2/3 of his wealth, and the waif responded with some "Just so" or something.

    Psykoma on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Actually all the Iron Islanders are boring.
    Victarion would like to have a word.

    (Book)
    Emo rape Viking is not more interesting than regular rape Viking.

    Sure he is. He's delightfully crazy.

  • Options
    Thorn413Thorn413 Registered User regular
    Psykoma wrote: »
    Zomro wrote: »
    Faceless Men (book info):
    The show greatly simplified and, in my opinion, cheapened the Faceless Men's origins. The way the show tells it is that the Faceless Men were some sort of Slave Liberation grouo rebelling against their masters in Old Valyria. That origin doesn't really explain their religious adherence to death or the fact that they will literally kill anyone if the proper tribute is paid.

    In the book, it's told that the first Faceless Man was a Valyrian noble. Day after day he'd hear slaves praying to their gods for death, so that they could be spared the terrible life they led under their Valyrian masters. The Many Faced God comes from the noble's observations. These slaves were praying to all these different gods, but they were all wishing for the same thing: death and freedom. Thus the belief that there's only one God and he wears many faces.

    The noble, with his newfound religious enlightenment, began to do the Many Faced God's work by killing the slaves who prayed for it. Then, one day, he heard a slave praying for death, but not his own. This slave prayed for the death of his master. The noble approached the slave and told him that he'd kill the master if, and only if, the slave devoted his life to the Many Faces God and joined in his work.

    It's probably my favorite piece of history in ASoIaF. Not sure why they even changed it, it wouldn't have taken much more dialogue, and it explains the Faceless Men's ways, it just makes sense.


    Not really? The show's interpretation is basically as valid as yours.

    A Feast For Crows Chapter 22
    "What kind of tale?" She asked, wary.

    "The tale of beginnings. If you would be one of us, you had best know who we are and how we came to be. Men may whisper of the Faceless Men of Braavos, but we are older than the Secret City. Before the Titan rose, before the Unmasking of Uthero, before the Founding, we were. We have flowered in Braavos amongst these northern fogs, but we first took root in Valyria, amongst the wretched slaves who toiled in the deep mines beneath the Fourteen Flames that lit the Freehold's nights of old. Most mines are dank and chilly places, but from cold dead stone, but the Fourteen Flames were living mountains with veins of molten rock and hearts of fire. So the miners of old Valyria were always hot, and they grew hotter as the shafts were driven deeper, ever deeper. The slaves toiled in an oven. The rocks around them were too hot to touch. The air stank of brimstone and would sear their lungs as they breathed it. The soles of their feet would burn and blister, even through the thickest sandals. Sometimes, when they broke through a wall in search of gold, they would find steam instead, or boiling water, or molten rock. Certain shafts were cut so low that the slaves could not stand upright, but had to crawl or bend. An there were wyrms in that red darkness too."

    "Earthworms?" she asked, frowning.

    "Firewyrms. Some say they are akin to dragons, for wyrms breathe fire too. Instead of soaring through the sky, they bore through stone and soil. If the old tales can be believed, there were wyrms amongst the Fourteen Flames even before the dragons came. The young ones are no larger than that skinny arm of yours, but they can grow to monstrous size and have no love for me."

    "Did they kill the slaves?"

    "Burnt and blackened corpses were oft found in shafts where the rocks were cracked or full of holes. Yet still the mines drove deeper. Slaves perished by the score, but their masters did not care. Red gold and yellow gold and silver were reckoned to be more precious than the lives of slaves, for slaves were cheap in the old Freehold. During war, the Valyrians took them by the thousands. In times of peace they bred them, though only the worst were sent down to die in the red darkness."

    "Didn't the slaves rise up and fight?"

    "Some did," he said, "Revolts were common in the mines, but few accomplished much. The dragonlords of the old Freehold were strong in sorcery, and lesser men defied them at their peril. The first Faceless Man was one who did."

    "Who was he?" Arya blurted, before she stopped to think.

    "No one," he answered. "Some say he was a slave himself. Others insist he was a freeholder's son, born of noble stock. Some will even tell you he was an overseer who took pity on his charges. The truth is, no one knows. Whoever he was, he moved amongst the slaves and would hear them at their prayers. Men of a hundred different nations labored in the mines, and each prayed to his own god in his own tongue, yet all were praying for the same thing. It was release they asked for, an end to pain. A small thing, and simple. Yet their gods made no answer, and their suffering went on. Are their gods all deaf? he wondered . . . until a realization came upon him, one night in the red darkness.

    "All gods have their instruments, men and women who serve them and help to work their will on earth. The slaves were not crying out to a hundred different gods, as it seemed, but to one god with a hundred different faces . . . and he was that god's instrument. That very night he chose the most wretched of the slaves, the one who had prayed most earnestly for release, and freed him from his bondage. The first gift had been given."

    "Arya drew back from him. "He killed the slave?" That did not sound right. "He should have killed the masters!"

    "He would bring the gift to them as well . . . but that is a tale fro another day, one best shared with no one." He cocked his head. "And who are you, child?"
    I might have missed it but did the show say what their price was
    If I remember the books right, their price depends on the person, a begger might have a person killed for giving them the wheeled board he uses to get around on where as a nobel would have to give them all of the coin in his treasury
    It was in general 2/3 of everything you have in life. For poor people that generally means their life, for rich they can usually pay and live.

    That does make me wonder whether:

    (book stuff)
    we'll get to find out what price Euron had to pay to have his brother killed.

  • Options
    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Actually all the Iron Islanders are boring.
    Victarion would like to have a word.

    (Book)
    Emo rape Viking is not more interesting than regular rape Viking.

    Sure he is. He's delightfully crazy.

    And stupid. He and Cersei are some of the most fun chapters for me because he really lets you experience their obliviousness and their internal rationalizations for it.

  • Options
    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    Thorn413 wrote: »
    Psykoma wrote: »
    Zomro wrote: »
    Faceless Men (book info):
    The show greatly simplified and, in my opinion, cheapened the Faceless Men's origins. The way the show tells it is that the Faceless Men were some sort of Slave Liberation grouo rebelling against their masters in Old Valyria. That origin doesn't really explain their religious adherence to death or the fact that they will literally kill anyone if the proper tribute is paid.

    In the book, it's told that the first Faceless Man was a Valyrian noble. Day after day he'd hear slaves praying to their gods for death, so that they could be spared the terrible life they led under their Valyrian masters. The Many Faced God comes from the noble's observations. These slaves were praying to all these different gods, but they were all wishing for the same thing: death and freedom. Thus the belief that there's only one God and he wears many faces.

    The noble, with his newfound religious enlightenment, began to do the Many Faced God's work by killing the slaves who prayed for it. Then, one day, he heard a slave praying for death, but not his own. This slave prayed for the death of his master. The noble approached the slave and told him that he'd kill the master if, and only if, the slave devoted his life to the Many Faces God and joined in his work.

    It's probably my favorite piece of history in ASoIaF. Not sure why they even changed it, it wouldn't have taken much more dialogue, and it explains the Faceless Men's ways, it just makes sense.


    Not really? The show's interpretation is basically as valid as yours.

    A Feast For Crows Chapter 22
    "What kind of tale?" She asked, wary.

    "The tale of beginnings. If you would be one of us, you had best know who we are and how we came to be. Men may whisper of the Faceless Men of Braavos, but we are older than the Secret City. Before the Titan rose, before the Unmasking of Uthero, before the Founding, we were. We have flowered in Braavos amongst these northern fogs, but we first took root in Valyria, amongst the wretched slaves who toiled in the deep mines beneath the Fourteen Flames that lit the Freehold's nights of old. Most mines are dank and chilly places, but from cold dead stone, but the Fourteen Flames were living mountains with veins of molten rock and hearts of fire. So the miners of old Valyria were always hot, and they grew hotter as the shafts were driven deeper, ever deeper. The slaves toiled in an oven. The rocks around them were too hot to touch. The air stank of brimstone and would sear their lungs as they breathed it. The soles of their feet would burn and blister, even through the thickest sandals. Sometimes, when they broke through a wall in search of gold, they would find steam instead, or boiling water, or molten rock. Certain shafts were cut so low that the slaves could not stand upright, but had to crawl or bend. An there were wyrms in that red darkness too."

    "Earthworms?" she asked, frowning.

    "Firewyrms. Some say they are akin to dragons, for wyrms breathe fire too. Instead of soaring through the sky, they bore through stone and soil. If the old tales can be believed, there were wyrms amongst the Fourteen Flames even before the dragons came. The young ones are no larger than that skinny arm of yours, but they can grow to monstrous size and have no love for me."

    "Did they kill the slaves?"

    "Burnt and blackened corpses were oft found in shafts where the rocks were cracked or full of holes. Yet still the mines drove deeper. Slaves perished by the score, but their masters did not care. Red gold and yellow gold and silver were reckoned to be more precious than the lives of slaves, for slaves were cheap in the old Freehold. During war, the Valyrians took them by the thousands. In times of peace they bred them, though only the worst were sent down to die in the red darkness."

    "Didn't the slaves rise up and fight?"

    "Some did," he said, "Revolts were common in the mines, but few accomplished much. The dragonlords of the old Freehold were strong in sorcery, and lesser men defied them at their peril. The first Faceless Man was one who did."

    "Who was he?" Arya blurted, before she stopped to think.

    "No one," he answered. "Some say he was a slave himself. Others insist he was a freeholder's son, born of noble stock. Some will even tell you he was an overseer who took pity on his charges. The truth is, no one knows. Whoever he was, he moved amongst the slaves and would hear them at their prayers. Men of a hundred different nations labored in the mines, and each prayed to his own god in his own tongue, yet all were praying for the same thing. It was release they asked for, an end to pain. A small thing, and simple. Yet their gods made no answer, and their suffering went on. Are their gods all deaf? he wondered . . . until a realization came upon him, one night in the red darkness.

    "All gods have their instruments, men and women who serve them and help to work their will on earth. The slaves were not crying out to a hundred different gods, as it seemed, but to one god with a hundred different faces . . . and he was that god's instrument. That very night he chose the most wretched of the slaves, the one who had prayed most earnestly for release, and freed him from his bondage. The first gift had been given."

    "Arya drew back from him. "He killed the slave?" That did not sound right. "He should have killed the masters!"

    "He would bring the gift to them as well . . . but that is a tale fro another day, one best shared with no one." He cocked his head. "And who are you, child?"
    I might have missed it but did the show say what their price was
    If I remember the books right, their price depends on the person, a begger might have a person killed for giving them the wheeled board he uses to get around on where as a nobel would have to give them all of the coin in his treasury
    It was in general 2/3 of everything you have in life. For poor people that generally means their life, for rich they can usually pay and live.

    That does make me wonder whether:

    (book stuff)
    we'll get to find out what price Euron had to pay to have his brother killed.

    More book stuff
    Maybe the chest of gold and jewels he presented at the kingsmoot was all he had left

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