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The Russian/Trump Investigation - Sessions' stonewalling session
Elki
get busyModerator, ClubPA mod
get busyModerator, ClubPA mod
Kicking off the new week with a combination of previous threads. Now that we're out of the craziest week of non-stop stories so far - maybe. *starts a countdown clock*
This thread is for talking about:
The election interference and collusion investigation, both in the FBI and congress.
The firing of James Comey, and continuing fallout of it.
The search for a new FBI director.
The special counsel, Robert Mueller.
Any further claims about wiretapping of Donald Trump.
Things we will not be talking about:
Impeachment, until further notice. So far this includes a lot of speculation with the investigation itself remaining unresolved, so we're leaving it off the table until a notable event happens.
The media.
Official prevention of cross contamination post.
Trump's foreign trip and other foreign policy issues: Foreign Policy Thread
Trump admin/family corruption and grift not related to Russia: Corruption/Grift/Ethics Violations in the Trump Administration
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Trump admin/government's treatment of the press: Freedom of the Press Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread
Reminder: Watergate comparison/discussion is on topic here, but don't get too into the weeds on it.
/straps in for another week
This thread is for talking about:
The election interference and collusion investigation, both in the FBI and congress.
The firing of James Comey, and continuing fallout of it.
The search for a new FBI director.
The special counsel, Robert Mueller.
Any further claims about wiretapping of Donald Trump.
Things we will not be talking about:
Impeachment, until further notice. So far this includes a lot of speculation with the investigation itself remaining unresolved, so we're leaving it off the table until a notable event happens.
The media.
Official prevention of cross contamination post.
Trump's foreign trip and other foreign policy issues: Foreign Policy Thread
Trump admin/family corruption and grift not related to Russia: Corruption/Grift/Ethics Violations in the Trump Administration
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Trump admin/government's treatment of the press: Freedom of the Press Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread
Reminder: Watergate comparison/discussion is on topic here, but don't get too into the weeds on it.
/straps in for another week
So It Goes on
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This discussion has been closed.
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Aside from Spicer's comments, have we gotten any reaction from Trump himself? Seeing as he was flying when Friday's news hit.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Because holy shit. Let's try not to get totally numb to everything. I know I'm forgetting to do that.
EDIT: Also the notion that Trump and co. want us to believe that firing the director of the FBI should be regarded as some kind of savvy political quid pro quo is fucking hilarious in a "I'm laughing because the downfall of American global hegemony has at last arrived" kind of way.
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Things will pick up when the investigation digs up an interesting morsel, then Trump's admin reacts making it worse - keeping it in two cycles rather than one etc.
Listening to the radio, a special counsel will likely lead to things quieting for a bit too as people are going to wait to hear what Mueller finds.
Supposedly he's very tired. The demands of the trip are exhausting him.
Low energy. Sad.
I wonder if he'll get back and be convinced to just stop talking about it, as the furore about it is going to die down (at least publicly) without him bumping it back up with every tweet.
I hope he doesn't learn that lesson, a huge part of his self-destruction is going to be from him sending people out to liedefend him when he's been slighted, if he learns to ignore it, it's going to be harder to pin him to the wall.
Fairly detailed timeline up until last Thursday. It is missing the stuff that broke on Friday, which was fairly major.
E: Which is to say, the news that Trump bragged to the Russians in his meeting that he fired Comey to get the pressure off of himself. Also the news that one of the WH senior staff was a "person of interest" in a Russia-related investigation (speculated to be Kushner).
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/us/politics/trump-white-house-government-ethics-lobbyists.html?smid=tw-share
While not directly linked to the Russia issue, it does probably offer a preview into the defense methods of the White House. And I think it indicates they're willing to use legal loopholes to stymie the investigation. Which should be fun.
They will invoke a conflict of interest clause within the US Department of Government Ethics that states that Mueller cannot investigate persons that the law firms he previously worked for represented. The White House will claim that it doesn't matter that he didn't personally work to represent Trump or his associates.
In normal conditions, I could see some validity to that claim as Mueller could have garnered inside information that could be used against Trump. However, in this case, I am confident that the USDoGE will recognize that there's more than enough Trump corruption to invalidate the need to use any potentially tainted information in the investigation.
Mueller probably isn't going to give periodic updates, so unless someone leaks something out of the White House this week this'll probably get buried for awhile.
I attribute that to him being in a metal can with very limited external access. NPR's message this morning was how he had managed to stay on message, but how he was very bat at remaining on-message over time. He's going to explode about this at some point.
Yes ? You say "I cannot answer those questions, as it would be self-incrimination".
In a Canadian context, the committee then says "ok, it's going to be a confidential closed door meeting. Start talking."
I don't know what the US equivalent is.
Contempt of Congress isn't as big a thing as Contempt of Court. Contempt of Court you can potentially spend forever in jail (and since you hold your own key this is legal), but the worst I've heard of from Contempt of Congress is a fine that nobody involved here would think twice of.
Is it possible he thinks they mean to make him testify that has a sub-standard peen?
Ok, so as dumb as they (Trump's runnin' crew) are, I know they know what a subpoena is.
But I also know that if it really were a subpoena to address their sub peenas, it would make them really mad and unnecessarily defensive.
he'll come back and start tweeting again and make it all headlines once more
For Flynn how it looks doesn't matter. He's political poison with legal problems that have the potential for many years in jail. He's not running for anything and this is time for him to find a good lawyer and say absolutely nothing; how it looks is the least of his problems.
Yeah, I think the only thing that would really change anything here is how Trump reacts to this shit. He's previously demonstrated an extreme willingness to defend Flynn.
He's the most likely person to end up in jail from this administration.
Flynn is a dumpster human being, but I'd rather see him cooperate and get a deal if it means more people are caught up in this thing who deserve to be.
But what if he takes the 5th? Remember in the debates he slammed Hilary for her and her aides taking the 5th, because only mobsters take the 5th.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-pleading-the-fifth_us_57ed79dee4b024a52d2de46d
Oh, right. I forgot.
"I plead the Fifth; you want me to say anything, you have to give me immunity."
I meant it looks bad for Trump. This was his National Security Advisor!
There is a fairly strong legal argument that if he is compelled to say anything in front of Congress then he gets a de facto grant of immunity. If you want Flynn in prison then you probably do not want his testimony compelled.
If you want Trump in prison on the other hand...
I'm pretty sure that Flynn has realized that Trump is more than willing to let Flynn sink for Trump's wrongdoing.
And I personally don't think that anyone should give Flynn an immunity deal or even a generous one. The Trump ship is full of leaks and is sinking. I think that the same information can be garnered from other resources.
Remember Flynn was just an associate of the campaign. Maybe an intern? Didn't even trust him to get coffee. Unlike obama who gave him clearance!