I'm going to hold out judgment on this announcement.
Certainly it's good news that the licenses are back in the hands of someone who helped create them and I doubt he is going to whore them out as blatantly as past holders (for example, slapping the Shadowrun name on a so-so FPS that has almost nothing to do with the actual concept of Shadowrun).
However, that doesn't mean that they'll be able to produce good games. Now, if Mr. Wesiman announces a partnership with a top-notch game development studio or two, then I'll be happy. A Crimson Skies or Mechwarrior MMORPG would rock my socks.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
I'm going to hold out judgment on this announcement.
Certainly it's good news that the licenses are back in the hands of someone who helped create them and I doubt he is going to whore them out as blatantly as past holders (for example, slapping the Shadowrun name on a so-so FPS that has almost nothing to do with the actual concept of Shadowrun).
However, that doesn't mean that they'll be able to produce good games. Now, if Mr. Wesiman announces a partnership with a top-notch game development studio or two, then I'll be happy. A Crimson Skies or Mechwarrior MMORPG would rock my socks.
They were never out of Weisman's hands -- he worked for Microsoft Games Studio. However, he didn't have the final say, as far as I could tell.
Honestly I'd settle for a remake of Mechwarrior 2. AFAIK it doesn't run on modern machines at all, DOSbox or not (I've certainly not been able to get it to work), and it would definitely benefit from a graphical revamp. As far as remakes go, not many games deserve it as much as Mechwarrior 2.
Though I'd be perfectly happy if they just made a new game with the core sim gameplay. But that's expecting too much, I'm afraid. A new Crimson Skies/offline Shadowrun would also be great, though, but I get the feeling they're gonna concentrate on P&P for the time being.
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
Shadowrun sandbox RPG plz. I don't need an MMO. Think a GTA > Shadowrun total conversion with RPG elements. In other words, a 2008 update of the concept of the Genesis Shadowrun game. That was the most underrated game of the 16-bit era.
This is awesome news. I remember when I was younger and saw a feature in some computer mag about MW2, I called Activision every day asking when it would be released. I had the number memorized and would dial it from home or any payphone I encountered in my travels.
I used to play those BTech MUSES when I was in high school back when they were the most entertaining thing to do on the internet. I tried them again recently and was amazed at the cool (yet lowtech visualizations available). The problem now is that if you had an MMO, it would have the same problems as every other popular online game... people being dicks, stat whoring, etc. On those MUSES, everyone played as a team, there were real ranks and organization... commanding officers telling people what to do, what mechs they were assigned to, etc. That would never fly today. Oh well. Maybe they will still come up with something good. Oh, and please have it be 3025!
This is awesome news. I remember when I was younger and saw a feature in some computer mag about MW2, I called Activision every day asking when it would be released. I had the number memorized and would dial it from home or any payphone I encountered in my travels.
I used to play those BTech MUSES when I was in high school back when they were the most entertaining thing to do on the internet. I tried them again recently and was amazed at the cool (yet lowtech visualizations available). The problem now is that if you had an MMO, it would have the same problems as every other popular online game... people being dicks, stat whoring, etc. On those MUSES, everyone played as a team, there were real ranks and organization... commanding officers telling people what to do, what mechs they were assigned to, etc. That would never fly today. Oh well. Maybe they will still come up with something good. Oh, and please have it be 3025!
I lived in Green Bay at that time and would visit the Battletech Center in Chicago every summer to encase ourselves in battletech multiplayer awesomesause. Also played it when they brought some extra pods to GenCon back when it was in Milwaukee. That was insanely fun. Got a printout at the end of your mech layout, and a play by play about how the match went along with a ton of stats about how much damage you did, what your accuracy was, etc... Machine guns were the BOMB in that sim, but the ammo ran out FAST. In a 8 man free for all, a fast mech with machine guns was a pretty good choice as long as the other players were pretty inexperienced (which was usually the case due to the cost).
I always wanted to get a bunch together and rent out the complex for a weekend.
Then MW2 finally came out and it was as pretty as the battletech center. It didn't have the controls immersion of course, but it was a LOT cheaper.
Regarding the comments about the Steel Battalion controller, there ARE pc drivers for the thing. It can be made to work in any of the existing PC MechWarrior games. Any decent mechwarrior forum should have a link to a howto in a sticky.
Shadowrun MMO
I picture logging in and getting an email about a `service' for a `mutual friend', going to meet with the Johnson, and having an 80% chance of it ending in a firefight before you even got the `quest'. Then you'd get in the car, drive through machine gun fire, explode and make a new character.
AWESOME
This is why I don't think Shadowrun would be a great MMO... there's much less fighting/shoosting than there is research and discovery.
Also, I may be the only one hoping that this news will bring a soon-to-be-released MechWarrior 2 saga for GameTap.
Snowbeati need somethingto kick this thing's ass over the lineRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
I would kill God for a new, full-featured MechWarrior game.
Hopping around in a Raven, irritating Assault Mechs with a couple of Med. lasers. Deactivating my reactor and springing an ambush on a group of enemies. Throwing a Long Tom on a Mauler and hoping it hits something.
I wouldn't mind an RPG version of Mechwarrior but I wouldn't turn down a traditional Mech Warrior game either.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
I would kill for a new, serious MechWarrior. Not watered down for the kiddies, but serious style like MechWarrior 2, where you had to learn to torso twist, and correctly use jump jets, and lead your shots, etc.
Some of my favorite gaming memories are from MechWarrior 2 back in the Kali days (good old IPX over TCP/IP). I used to be in Clan Star Adder in one of the various competitive ladders, was a blast.
It's always like that. I don't know why. Everyone likes the concept of a good MMO, but only like 2 companies in the entire world can craft one that doesn't suck donkeyfart.
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
As much hate as Mech 4 got, it was the best balanced for multiplayer, and anyone that says different didn't play in a league. Mech 2/3 were awesome, but their multiplayer was buggy and all kinds of broken.
Oh dear, don't you dare speak bad words about MechWarrior 3's multiplayer. MW3's multiplayer was all kinds of awesome bundled in more awesomeness.
Don't you dare.
It was crap on top of crap. It was peer-to-peer and laggy to the point where playing it on a LAN and over the Internet were basically two different games -- and the Internet version sucked, where you had to purposely aim at something other than the target to compensate for lag. It was violently imbalanced, with hardly any terrain to speak of, and no mapmaker, and a poor set of "server" options. What was good about it, exactly?
I'm always surprised by the lack of love for MPBT:Solaris when talks about the Battletech universe and multiplayer come up. Is it just that most people weren't aware of it back in 1996, or did some people actual prefer the peer-to-peer style of the MW series? Thousands of players, in-game ranking system for rated matches, even in-game voice support near the end of its run. Albeit, the graphics weren't fantastic, but the gameplay was solid.
I'm always surprised by the lack of love for MPBT:Solaris when talks about the Battletech universe and multiplayer come up. Is it just that most people weren't aware of it back in 1996, or did some people actual prefer the peer-to-peer style of the MW series? Thousands of players, in-game ranking system for rated matches, even in-game voice support near the end of its run. Albeit, the graphics weren't fantastic, but the gameplay was solid.
Wasn't this run on a pay service? I remember seeing ads for Kesmai's games in Computer Gaming World or something back in the day.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited December 2007
Oh man, he got the rights for Mechwarrior back? Fuck yes.
I'm always surprised by the lack of love for MPBT:Solaris when talks about the Battletech universe and multiplayer come up. Is it just that most people weren't aware of it back in 1996, or did some people actual prefer the peer-to-peer style of the MW series? Thousands of players, in-game ranking system for rated matches, even in-game voice support near the end of its run. Albeit, the graphics weren't fantastic, but the gameplay was solid.
Wasn't this run on a pay service? I remember seeing ads for Kesmai's games in Computer Gaming World or something back in the day.
Good point. Yeah, it was 10$ a month through either AOL or Gamestorm (depending on the time frame).
It's not so much an MMO thing: it's a Mechwarrior thing. I've never been big into MMOs, but the thought of being able to actively participate in a 100+ Mech. battle, complete with dropships, air support and infantry all brawling over some persistent piece of virtual real estate on planet x makes me all warm & fuzzy inside.
It's almost as if the original old school Battletech PnP was custom-built to be adapted into a MMO game 20 or so years before the idea ever crossed someone's mind.
Oh man, he got the rights for Mechwarrior back? Fuck yes.
Needs more Mechwarrior: Mercenaries games.
I don't know if Jordan Weisman is as geared towards the hardcore (well, as far as the term applies to giant robot games) design as people are hoping. I think the Clix board games were his brainchild, and a lot of diehard BattleTech players complain about those being watered down. On the other hand, the Virtual World cockpits were also his idea, and those were pretty complex, especially in their earlier incarnations.
I don't see how large scale terrain capture, an economic shell allowing mech customization, and integrated community support provided by the persistent nature of an MMO could be a bad thing when mixed with a tactical "shooter" game like Mechwarrior? I wouldn't turn my back on a new Mechwarrior game if the multiplayer followed the user-based server approach that most FPS's use, but the game could be so much better if it were persistent.
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I would download a car.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
You're right about one thing. Not everything should have an MMO to it. However, as far as BattleTech goes, it would make a lot of sense. And keep in mind that "MMO" doesn't mean "MMORPG". Really, the MMO aspect would probably just be a lobby or two, and huge clan battles can take place (and yes, I do mean clans as far as BattleTech is concerned - screw the Inner Sphere <.< ). If they keep it to the simulator play style (or even the MechAssault style) balancing it wouldn't be hard. It'd REALLY be a game of skill. Money you get from matches give you the funds to upgrade or rearm your mech, or buy a new one. I mean, the skill aspect is taken away when you're suddenly facing a guy in a mech two times the size of yours, but that'd just be an inevitability for everyone.
All I want is a remake of Shadowrun on the Genesis for the PC or 360 or something. Is that too much to ask? That game was easily my favorite game on the Genesis.
You're right about one thing. Not everything should have an MMO to it. However, as far as BattleTech goes, it would make a lot of sense. And keep in mind that "MMO" doesn't mean "MMORPG". Really, the MMO aspect would probably just be a lobby or two, and huge clan battles can take place (and yes, I do mean clans as far as BattleTech is concerned - screw the Inner Sphere <.< ). If they keep it to the simulator play style (or even the MechAssault style) balancing it wouldn't be hard. It'd REALLY be a game of skill. Money you get from matches give you the funds to upgrade or rearm your mech, or buy a new one. I mean, the skill aspect is taken away when you're suddenly facing a guy in a mech two times the size of yours, but that'd just be an inevitability for everyone.
Man, I start thinking of people talking in Clan speak over comms and I start to get this throbbing pain between my eyes. Gah. No.
It seems to me that if they include anything but 'Mechs, balancing could be pretty hard. Anything that flies would be a nightmare, I'd think. Why bother with scout 'Mechs if you have an airplane?
As far as complaints against MMOs, I think the two big ones would be 1) paying for the service, and 2) being locked out of content for not playing for x number of days instead of x number of hours. If persistence is the big thing, I believe the Mechwarrior games have had a pretty strong league presence since MW2, and not having the rules locked into the software has allowed for more flexibility and complexity in the way they're set up.
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited December 2007
I think the reason for the MMO hate is that it would most definitely mean that the game would follow the traditional "fuck over the gamer by stretching the game out enormously for no other reason than to waste time and ensure the next months subscription rates" then it would continue by balancing every single mech to be essentially the exact same as all the other ones, not even mentioning bringing every single mech that is initially unique to a clan to all the other clans because they listen to the community whining.
Then they'll let the economy collapse because of the constant influx of gold farming and botters and not do a damn thing to stop it. Finally, permadeath or any other kind of punishment for death will be completely left out of the loop, boiling it down to essentially grinding so you can get the most epic of all the epic loot to twink out your class as much as possible.
It seems to me that if they include anything but 'Mechs, balancing could be pretty hard. Anything that flies would be a nightmare, I'd think. Why bother with scout 'Mechs if you have an airplane?
Because scout mechs can still out weapon and out armor all but the most expensive aerospace vehicles, and you're talking atlas+ costs to fit on that fourth small laser if I remember correctly.
You're right about one thing. Not everything should have an MMO to it. However, as far as BattleTech goes, it would make a lot of sense. And keep in mind that "MMO" doesn't mean "MMORPG". Really, the MMO aspect would probably just be a lobby or two, and huge clan battles can take place (and yes, I do mean clans as far as BattleTech is concerned - screw the Inner Sphere <.< ). If they keep it to the simulator play style (or even the MechAssault style) balancing it wouldn't be hard. It'd REALLY be a game of skill. Money you get from matches give you the funds to upgrade or rearm your mech, or buy a new one. I mean, the skill aspect is taken away when you're suddenly facing a guy in a mech two times the size of yours, but that'd just be an inevitability for everyone.
Man, I start thinking of people talking in Clan speak over comms and I start to get this throbbing pain between my eyes. Gah. No.
It seems to me that if they include anything but 'Mechs, balancing could be pretty hard. Anything that flies would be a nightmare, I'd think. Why bother with scout 'Mechs if you have an airplane?
As far as complaints against MMOs, I think the two big ones would be 1) paying for the service, and 2) being locked out of content for not playing for x number of days instead of x number of hours. If persistence is the big thing, I believe the Mechwarrior games have had a pretty strong league presence since MW2, and not having the rules locked into the software has allowed for more flexibility and complexity in the way they're set up.
I'm more concerned about how persistence would screw with side balance. If everyone is locked into a team everything will eventually go downhill, while in a non-persistent game people can just be shuffled around if the sides need rebalancing.
It seems to me that if they include anything but 'Mechs, balancing could be pretty hard. Anything that flies would be a nightmare, I'd think. Why bother with scout 'Mechs if you have an airplane?
Because scout mechs can still out weapon and out armor all but the most expensive aerospace vehicles, and you're talking atlas+ costs to fit on that fourth small laser if I remember correctly.
I don't know about the latest versions, but in 2nd edition (I think) an aerospace fighter was generally somewhat cheaper than an equivalently tonned 'Mech, although somewhat undergunned/armored at the higher tonnages, as well (unless you count bombs, which threw everything out of whack).
The idea here is that the scout 'Mech isn't necessarily supposed to be outweaponing or outarmoring anything, it's just there to get radar information. Having fighters in the air pretty much negates that aspect of the game entirely, because while 'Mech count their speed in hexes the fighters count theirs in map sheets. Plus the idea of having 'Mech controls feel hefty (i.e., slightly cumbersome) against other 'Mechs while still being agile enough to zap fighters going 1000+ kph out of the sky seems unrealistic.
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
You're right about one thing. Not everything should have an MMO to it. However, as far as BattleTech goes, it would make a lot of sense. And keep in mind that "MMO" doesn't mean "MMORPG". Really, the MMO aspect would probably just be a lobby or two, and huge clan battles can take place (and yes, I do mean clans as far as BattleTech is concerned - screw the Inner Sphere <.< ). If they keep it to the simulator play style (or even the MechAssault style) balancing it wouldn't be hard. It'd REALLY be a game of skill. Money you get from matches give you the funds to upgrade or rearm your mech, or buy a new one. I mean, the skill aspect is taken away when you're suddenly facing a guy in a mech two times the size of yours, but that'd just be an inevitability for everyone.
Man, I start thinking of people talking in Clan speak over comms and I start to get this throbbing pain between my eyes. Gah. No.
It seems to me that if they include anything but 'Mechs, balancing could be pretty hard. Anything that flies would be a nightmare, I'd think. Why bother with scout 'Mechs if you have an airplane?
As far as complaints against MMOs, I think the two big ones would be 1) paying for the service, and 2) being locked out of content for not playing for x number of days instead of x number of hours. If persistence is the big thing, I believe the Mechwarrior games have had a pretty strong league presence since MW2, and not having the rules locked into the software has allowed for more flexibility and complexity in the way they're set up.
I'm more concerned about how persistence would screw with side balance. If everyone is locked into a team everything will eventually go downhill, while in a non-persistent game people can just be shuffled around if the sides need rebalancing.
how about if there was an MMO that actually could be definitively won by one side? Maybe something like restarting the server, allowing players the ability to carry their character over to the "new game" with something like a slight bonus for the winning side players for having won. Then shuffle the teams up or allow people to drag their characters to new servers, maybe signing on as free agents or mercs, who have their own goals/objectives to meet before a win is called.
It seems to me that if they include anything but 'Mechs, balancing could be pretty hard. Anything that flies would be a nightmare, I'd think. Why bother with scout 'Mechs if you have an airplane?
Because scout mechs can still out weapon and out armor all but the most expensive aerospace vehicles, and you're talking atlas+ costs to fit on that fourth small laser if I remember correctly.
I don't know about the latest versions, but in 2nd edition (I think) an aerospace fighter was generally somewhat cheaper than an equivalently tonned 'Mech, although somewhat undergunned/armored at the higher tonnages, as well (unless you count bombs, which threw everything out of whack).
The idea here is that the scout 'Mech isn't necessarily supposed to be outweaponing or outarmoring anything, it's just there to get radar information. Having fighters in the air pretty much negates that aspect of the game entirely, because while 'Mech count their speed in hexes the fighters count theirs in map sheets. Plus the idea of having 'Mech controls feel hefty (i.e., slightly cumbersome) against other 'Mechs while still being agile enough to zap fighters going 1000+ kph out of the sky seems unrealistic.
I exaggerated the weaknesses of the vehicle to the point where I was basically totally wrong. I want to look at those links and find some way to say there was some reasoning in the design, but quite frankly, scout mechs have no reason to exist except as light weapons platforms (and of course, aerospace vehicles are annoying to run in the map). But the Btech master rules doesn't even have a sheet for aerospace vehicles--just VTOLs and tanks. I hate VTOLs.
Oh, and a side note, I remember looking up the speed of rockets at one point, and the speed of some of the airplanes, and they also can outrun missiles. Fun.
You could maybe get away with saying that the aerospace vehicles were so easy to target that the lack of armor made them squishy and Autotracking AA destroys them? I don't know.
Anyway, to the original point of discussion, tanks and vtols might not be too much for the game to handle. But I still hate VTOLs.
I guess I just want a Shadowrun RPG that is singleplayer. Look at Mass Effect. Shooty. Lots of atmosphere. Story. Dialogue.
Or make it an FPS/RPG hybrid and show the hacks making Deus Ex 3 how it should have been done in the first place.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited December 2007
I remember hearing rumors a little while back about work on a Crimson Skies sequel. I can only pray. That game just did something... right. Somehow, the game just clicked and left you starving for more. The Industrial States of America? Insanely awesome plane design? Interesting parallel-world story? Lightning-bolt shooting spider-robots? Airship eating airships?! HELL YES!
I'd like to see a new, true Mechwarrior game, but I wouldn't be willing to build a whole new PC for it (which I would probably have to do, by the time it came out). It would still be awesome, though.
I would build a PC for a game that mixed elements of both. I've never actually played the Shadowrun game, but I have read up on it. Urban mech warfare combined with highly skilled operatives than can sneak around and sabotage mechs, set up traps, switch IFF, hack radio transmissions, etc., all in huge cities? Territorial combat between gangs using magic and giant robots?
I would lose bowel control. Forever.
If they could somehow incorporate Crimson Skies, I would quite possible never play anything else ever again.
Also, when did mega-corporation like Microsoft start making some reasonable decisions? Selling off these properties instead of squatting on them forever? Playing Divx with the 360 update? Letting Bungie return to being an independent studio? These are disturbing portents...
Apparently this is Jordan Wesiman's (founder of FASA) new company, and he has bought the 'electronic entertainment' rights back to Mechwarrior, Shadowrun, and Crimson Skies.
Is it too much to hope for? A Shadowrun game that's actually an RPG? A real successor to Mechwarrior?
A man can dream...
This is in theory some of the best news I've heard in.... well hell, as long as I can remember as far these IPs go but I refuse to let even a glimmer of hope through until I hear something solid about what he's going to do with the rights.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer this scenario a lot more than Microsoft having those rights in light of what they've done with them, or rather what they haven't done with them, but in my admittedly jaded opinion Microsoft no longer having the rights, while a great first step, is only a first step.
Personal dreams include a new Mechwarrior game and something along the lines of EVE Online having a love child with Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
I always throw these out in any thread, just to have them out there:
http://catalystgamelabs.com/ --- The current holder of the Classic Battletech and Shadowrun RPG licenses. Same crew that's been doing in since the FASA breakup, just under new management that isn't tied to FanPro LLC. WizKids (Jordan Weisman's company) still holds the core license, but these guys are getting more freedom everyday and have started picking up the schedule.
http://www.battlecorps.com/BC2/index.html -- Battlecorps, the "DLC" of Battletech. Supported pretty heavily, although it requires a subscription fee to access it. There is some weirdness regarding publishing of Battletech novels, so this is how they got around it without stepping on Wizkids' toes. With Wizkids' blessing, of course. They were going to do a similar one with Shadowrun, but it looks like that has died.
God, I hope they do a traditional Mechwarrior game. With the advances in computing over the last decade, it could be insane and epic -- and more importantly, it would be complete thanks to Project Phoenix/ The Reseen!
They've recently re-released a new classic battletech box set I noticed. On the downside it's plastic models. On the upside, more stuff for my merc company to annhilate.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
They've recently re-released a new classic battletech box set I noticed. On the downside it's plastic models. On the upside, more stuff for my merc company to annhilate.
Downside?
Sales of the box set plummeted when they took out the plastic models and put in cardboard pieces. Apparently people like the feeling of actually having units in a wargame. Go figure. Randall Bills made a whole lengthy series of blog posts about it.
Unlike the old plastic models, which were on plastic trees, these ones are molded into singular pieces for stability and ease of use. The base set also includes a section on how to paint them up, and suggested paint schemes. They are made from the Ironwind metals molds as well.
... Also, huh. It looks like Randall Bills is no longer directly the line developer for Battletech, but instead works on both lines as needed. Good for him, and Shadowrun really needs something like that.
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Certainly it's good news that the licenses are back in the hands of someone who helped create them and I doubt he is going to whore them out as blatantly as past holders (for example, slapping the Shadowrun name on a so-so FPS that has almost nothing to do with the actual concept of Shadowrun).
However, that doesn't mean that they'll be able to produce good games. Now, if Mr. Wesiman announces a partnership with a top-notch game development studio or two, then I'll be happy. A Crimson Skies or Mechwarrior MMORPG would rock my socks.
They were never out of Weisman's hands -- he worked for Microsoft Games Studio. However, he didn't have the final say, as far as I could tell.
It's really, REALLY complex with him.
Though I'd be perfectly happy if they just made a new game with the core sim gameplay. But that's expecting too much, I'm afraid. A new Crimson Skies/offline Shadowrun would also be great, though, but I get the feeling they're gonna concentrate on P&P for the time being.
I used to play those BTech MUSES when I was in high school back when they were the most entertaining thing to do on the internet. I tried them again recently and was amazed at the cool (yet lowtech visualizations available). The problem now is that if you had an MMO, it would have the same problems as every other popular online game... people being dicks, stat whoring, etc. On those MUSES, everyone played as a team, there were real ranks and organization... commanding officers telling people what to do, what mechs they were assigned to, etc. That would never fly today. Oh well. Maybe they will still come up with something good. Oh, and please have it be 3025!
I lived in Green Bay at that time and would visit the Battletech Center in Chicago every summer to encase ourselves in battletech multiplayer awesomesause. Also played it when they brought some extra pods to GenCon back when it was in Milwaukee. That was insanely fun. Got a printout at the end of your mech layout, and a play by play about how the match went along with a ton of stats about how much damage you did, what your accuracy was, etc... Machine guns were the BOMB in that sim, but the ammo ran out FAST. In a 8 man free for all, a fast mech with machine guns was a pretty good choice as long as the other players were pretty inexperienced (which was usually the case due to the cost).
I always wanted to get a bunch together and rent out the complex for a weekend.
Then MW2 finally came out and it was as pretty as the battletech center. It didn't have the controls immersion of course, but it was a LOT cheaper.
Regarding the comments about the Steel Battalion controller, there ARE pc drivers for the thing. It can be made to work in any of the existing PC MechWarrior games. Any decent mechwarrior forum should have a link to a howto in a sticky.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
MMOG Comic, Quests, and News. www.thebrasse.com
This is why I don't think Shadowrun would be a great MMO... there's much less fighting/shoosting than there is research and discovery.
Also, I may be the only one hoping that this news will bring a soon-to-be-released MechWarrior 2 saga for GameTap.
Hopping around in a Raven, irritating Assault Mechs with a couple of Med. lasers. Deactivating my reactor and springing an ambush on a group of enemies. Throwing a Long Tom on a Mauler and hoping it hits something.
ahhh, good times.
Some of my favorite gaming memories are from MechWarrior 2 back in the Kali days (good old IPX over TCP/IP). I used to be in Clan Star Adder in one of the various competitive ladders, was a blast.
It's always like that. I don't know why. Everyone likes the concept of a good MMO, but only like 2 companies in the entire world can craft one that doesn't suck donkeyfart.
It was crap on top of crap. It was peer-to-peer and laggy to the point where playing it on a LAN and over the Internet were basically two different games -- and the Internet version sucked, where you had to purposely aim at something other than the target to compensate for lag. It was violently imbalanced, with hardly any terrain to speak of, and no mapmaker, and a poor set of "server" options. What was good about it, exactly?
Wasn't this run on a pay service? I remember seeing ads for Kesmai's games in Computer Gaming World or something back in the day.
Needs more Mechwarrior: Mercenaries games.
Good point. Yeah, it was 10$ a month through either AOL or Gamestorm (depending on the time frame).
It's not so much an MMO thing: it's a Mechwarrior thing. I've never been big into MMOs, but the thought of being able to actively participate in a 100+ Mech. battle, complete with dropships, air support and infantry all brawling over some persistent piece of virtual real estate on planet x makes me all warm & fuzzy inside.
It's almost as if the original old school Battletech PnP was custom-built to be adapted into a MMO game 20 or so years before the idea ever crossed someone's mind.
I don't know if Jordan Weisman is as geared towards the hardcore (well, as far as the term applies to giant robot games) design as people are hoping. I think the Clix board games were his brainchild, and a lot of diehard BattleTech players complain about those being watered down. On the other hand, the Virtual World cockpits were also his idea, and those were pretty complex, especially in their earlier incarnations.
And I like all of them, from 2 to 4mercs.
Oh God! The prospects of a new Mechwarrior!
Oh God! The prospects of a new Crimson Skies!
I predict a pants holocaust is in the near future.
You're right about one thing. Not everything should have an MMO to it. However, as far as BattleTech goes, it would make a lot of sense. And keep in mind that "MMO" doesn't mean "MMORPG". Really, the MMO aspect would probably just be a lobby or two, and huge clan battles can take place (and yes, I do mean clans as far as BattleTech is concerned - screw the Inner Sphere <.< ). If they keep it to the simulator play style (or even the MechAssault style) balancing it wouldn't be hard. It'd REALLY be a game of skill. Money you get from matches give you the funds to upgrade or rearm your mech, or buy a new one. I mean, the skill aspect is taken away when you're suddenly facing a guy in a mech two times the size of yours, but that'd just be an inevitability for everyone.
Man, I start thinking of people talking in Clan speak over comms and I start to get this throbbing pain between my eyes. Gah. No.
It seems to me that if they include anything but 'Mechs, balancing could be pretty hard. Anything that flies would be a nightmare, I'd think. Why bother with scout 'Mechs if you have an airplane?
As far as complaints against MMOs, I think the two big ones would be 1) paying for the service, and 2) being locked out of content for not playing for x number of days instead of x number of hours. If persistence is the big thing, I believe the Mechwarrior games have had a pretty strong league presence since MW2, and not having the rules locked into the software has allowed for more flexibility and complexity in the way they're set up.
Then they'll let the economy collapse because of the constant influx of gold farming and botters and not do a damn thing to stop it. Finally, permadeath or any other kind of punishment for death will be completely left out of the loop, boiling it down to essentially grinding so you can get the most epic of all the epic loot to twink out your class as much as possible.
Because scout mechs can still out weapon and out armor all but the most expensive aerospace vehicles, and you're talking atlas+ costs to fit on that fourth small laser if I remember correctly.
I'm more concerned about how persistence would screw with side balance. If everyone is locked into a team everything will eventually go downhill, while in a non-persistent game people can just be shuffled around if the sides need rebalancing.
I don't know about the latest versions, but in 2nd edition (I think) an aerospace fighter was generally somewhat cheaper than an equivalently tonned 'Mech, although somewhat undergunned/armored at the higher tonnages, as well (unless you count bombs, which threw everything out of whack).
http://www.classicbattletech.com/downloads/BattleValueTables-3_0.pdf
Spider (L1 variants): 30 tons, 2.7M C-bills
http://www.solaris7.com/TRO/Aerospace/FighterInfo.asp?ID=40
Sparrowhawk: 30 tons, 1.7M C-bills
The idea here is that the scout 'Mech isn't necessarily supposed to be outweaponing or outarmoring anything, it's just there to get radar information. Having fighters in the air pretty much negates that aspect of the game entirely, because while 'Mech count their speed in hexes the fighters count theirs in map sheets. Plus the idea of having 'Mech controls feel hefty (i.e., slightly cumbersome) against other 'Mechs while still being agile enough to zap fighters going 1000+ kph out of the sky seems unrealistic.
how about if there was an MMO that actually could be definitively won by one side? Maybe something like restarting the server, allowing players the ability to carry their character over to the "new game" with something like a slight bonus for the winning side players for having won. Then shuffle the teams up or allow people to drag their characters to new servers, maybe signing on as free agents or mercs, who have their own goals/objectives to meet before a win is called.
I exaggerated the weaknesses of the vehicle to the point where I was basically totally wrong. I want to look at those links and find some way to say there was some reasoning in the design, but quite frankly, scout mechs have no reason to exist except as light weapons platforms (and of course, aerospace vehicles are annoying to run in the map). But the Btech master rules doesn't even have a sheet for aerospace vehicles--just VTOLs and tanks. I hate VTOLs.
Oh, and a side note, I remember looking up the speed of rockets at one point, and the speed of some of the airplanes, and they also can outrun missiles. Fun.
You could maybe get away with saying that the aerospace vehicles were so easy to target that the lack of armor made them squishy and Autotracking AA destroys them? I don't know.
Anyway, to the original point of discussion, tanks and vtols might not be too much for the game to handle. But I still hate VTOLs.
Or make it an FPS/RPG hybrid and show the hacks making Deus Ex 3 how it should have been done in the first place.
I'd like to see a new, true Mechwarrior game, but I wouldn't be willing to build a whole new PC for it (which I would probably have to do, by the time it came out). It would still be awesome, though.
I would build a PC for a game that mixed elements of both. I've never actually played the Shadowrun game, but I have read up on it. Urban mech warfare combined with highly skilled operatives than can sneak around and sabotage mechs, set up traps, switch IFF, hack radio transmissions, etc., all in huge cities? Territorial combat between gangs using magic and giant robots?
I would lose bowel control. Forever.
If they could somehow incorporate Crimson Skies, I would quite possible never play anything else ever again.
Also, when did mega-corporation like Microsoft start making some reasonable decisions? Selling off these properties instead of squatting on them forever? Playing Divx with the 360 update? Letting Bungie return to being an independent studio? These are disturbing portents...
This is in theory some of the best news I've heard in.... well hell, as long as I can remember as far these IPs go but I refuse to let even a glimmer of hope through until I hear something solid about what he's going to do with the rights.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer this scenario a lot more than Microsoft having those rights in light of what they've done with them, or rather what they haven't done with them, but in my admittedly jaded opinion Microsoft no longer having the rights, while a great first step, is only a first step.
Personal dreams include a new Mechwarrior game and something along the lines of EVE Online having a love child with Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries.
http://catalystgamelabs.com/ --- The current holder of the Classic Battletech and Shadowrun RPG licenses. Same crew that's been doing in since the FASA breakup, just under new management that isn't tied to FanPro LLC. WizKids (Jordan Weisman's company) still holds the core license, but these guys are getting more freedom everyday and have started picking up the schedule.
http://www.shadowrun4.com -- The current home of the REAL Shadowrun.
http://www.classicbattletech.com -- Home of Classic Battletech, which is still going amazingly strong.
http://www.battlecorps.com/BC2/index.html -- Battlecorps, the "DLC" of Battletech. Supported pretty heavily, although it requires a subscription fee to access it. There is some weirdness regarding publishing of Battletech novels, so this is how they got around it without stepping on Wizkids' toes. With Wizkids' blessing, of course. They were going to do a similar one with Shadowrun, but it looks like that has died.
God, I hope they do a traditional Mechwarrior game. With the advances in computing over the last decade, it could be insane and epic -- and more importantly, it would be complete thanks to Project Phoenix/ The Reseen!
Downside?
Sales of the box set plummeted when they took out the plastic models and put in cardboard pieces. Apparently people like the feeling of actually having units in a wargame. Go figure. Randall Bills made a whole lengthy series of blog posts about it.
Unlike the old plastic models, which were on plastic trees, these ones are molded into singular pieces for stability and ease of use. The base set also includes a section on how to paint them up, and suggested paint schemes. They are made from the Ironwind metals molds as well.
... Also, huh. It looks like Randall Bills is no longer directly the line developer for Battletech, but instead works on both lines as needed. Good for him, and Shadowrun really needs something like that.