NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
And now some Grinder! I'm in the Firestarter (red arrow), and @DaMoonRulz is a billion miles away in a Firebee (blue arrow). Will our ships Mechs pass harmlessly in the night?
@Nips Oh, I got an answer as to why they multiplied everything by five for damage values. It's so they could tweak the damage values for different Manufacturers without dealing with fractions.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
@Nips Oh, I got an answer as to why they multiplied everything by five for damage values. It's so they could tweak the damage values for different Manufacturers without dealing with fractions.
So, they're getting a little Front Mission in our Battletech? I'm down with that; I always kind of wanted something along those lines in a PC game since they put all this extraneous info in the tech readouts about who made what. Wonder if the different armor manufacturers will matter?
Nips Oh, I got an answer as to why they multiplied everything by five for damage values. It's so they could tweak the damage values for different Manufacturers without dealing with fractions.
So, they're getting a little Front Mission in our Battletech? I'm down with that; I always kind of wanted something along those lines in a PC game since they put all this extraneous info in the tech readouts about who made what. Wonder if the different armor manufacturers will matter?
And different Autocannon makers will change if you have a burst fire AC or single shot AC, but it's purely cosmetic
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
So here's an interesting development in the Harmony Gold shenanigans:
I mean, from the article we don't know what exactly they're hoping to accomplish with that move. But dragging the actual Japanese rights situation into a US court (which seems inevitable with this newest suit) seems like an extremely dangerous move since their whole business model with Robotech has hinged on a questionable interpretation of their agreement with Tatsunoko.
Edit: Disregard, see Betsuni's post below.
Harmony Gold is the Donald Trump of anime distributors. They produce little of value, are constantly doing things that are stupid or obnoxious, are involved in laundering money for foreign officials, and somehow manage to keep avoiding their comeuppance.
Okay, thanks for the link to the new case. I did some digging, and it was a largely useless case (it's asking a court to confirm and arbitration) but one of the exhibits was worth the money.
As per Exhibit 1 (Redacted document - Arbitration Award) in 2:17-cv-06034 Harmony Gold, USA, Inc. v. Tatsunoko Production Co., Ltd.
Award 2a: HG's license to make derivative works expires 14MAR2021. All rights and sublicenses revert to the company that bought the company that bought Tatsunoko at that time.
2c: HG does not have all rights in perpetuity throughout the universe (the listed terminology).
2d: They can negotiate for a new license, of course.
Let it be known: This is not part of the other case, it is a matter of court record, and I am not an attorney. These are my understandings based on my knowledge. The citations are provided in case an attorney wishes to fact-check.
It explains the sudden rush, they have four years to milk the license for all its worth before terms change. Also, this was a million-dollar arbitration on their part.
I'd also like to suggest people read the Wikipedia article on Harmony Gold USA.
Ok, a lot of stuff going on in that Leonard French stream, but apparently, here's the highlights:
This has nothing to do with Battletech
Arbitration is already over. In addition, Arbitration only covers the contract between HG and Tatsunoko, with no regard to external factors - It is not legally binding otherwise. Presumably that means it can't be used against HBS
Basically, Tatsunoko got squeezed by Big West, another company. In turn, Tatsunoko tried to squeeze HG for royalties (Way, way WAY too late), rights and other stuff. HG squeezed back and won
The contract pretty much gives HG every single right you can think of outside the US, excluding the rights to 41 original Macross characters
All of HGs rights end on March 14, 2021. All of them
Whoever Tatsunoko had writing their contracts was a moron
There's a lot of stuff though, I suggest people watch it.
Nothing would make me laugh harder then if Palladium books snapped up the rights to Robotech in it's entirety and then called up Jordan to tell him that the whole unseen thing is over because no one is benefiting from this asinine arrangement.
Nothing would make me laugh harder then if Palladium books snapped up the rights to Robotech in it's entirety and then called up Jordan to tell him that the whole unseen thing is over because no one is benefiting from this asinine arrangement.
Actually what would be funnier is if HG loses their license since they probably couldn't afford to make a new one. Then someone like HPG/PGI bought the rights to Robotech and sued HG for even mentioning that they once owned Robotech.
Edit: Sorry, my anger at HG reared its ugly head again. Usually comes when I remember that there is no new Macross shows here thanks to them.
It does look nice. I think all the previous Catapult minis had overly skinny legs or a hilariously gigantic fuselage, and this one just looks good. The Thunderbolt is a huge improvement over all their prior efforts, too. I think BattleTech makes some of the worst-looking miniatures on the planet, but most of these are solid.
The Shadow Hawk looks a little off, though, like its entire middle torso caved in and it's pretending to be a Javelin. Unless it's leaning in really far for a round of Greco-Roman wrestling.
Do Griffin's have a dead side? I always thought the missiles and PPC were on opposite sides.
Hmm, neat.
Most variants don't. The 1N has a quasi-deadside, with the LRM-10 and PPC in the right side and only a pair of jump jets to lose on the left. The 5K as well, but it mounts an LFE so it's more fragile. The 6S is similar to the 5K, but also gives up an ER Medium Laser on losing its left side.
Well if these will be the new gold standard minis I'm just going to throw my old ones in the garbage.
I will happily take them off your hands, at a reasonable price, before I let it get to that.
No figure left behind!
$3 a mini for the last 2 box sets (3 total). $10 for each unseen included with the 3rd edition box. $10 each for the heavy unseen Lance. $20 for the original metal marauder 2. $13 for he metal grasshopper. $5 each for reinforcement pack mechs.
Shit... This is getting expensive
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Well if these will be the new gold standard minis I'm just going to throw my old ones in the garbage.
I will happily take them off your hands, at a reasonable price, before I let it get to that.
No figure left behind!
$3 a mini for the last 2 box sets (3 total). $10 for each unseen included with the 3rd edition box. $10 each for the heavy unseen Lance. $20 for the original metal marauder 2. $13 for he metal grasshopper. $5 each for reinforcement pack mechs.
Shit... This is getting expensive
Given my eBay trawling experience, I doubt you'd get those prices. Some of the metal Unseen sculpts might go for $15+ (much more if it's a rare one) depending on the sculpts, but Third Edition Unseen plastics usually go for $5-10. Most of the modern plastics are going to go for $3.50 (Lance Pack) or less (Intro Box, unless the box set is complete as a whole) per fig. Modern metal on the secondary market is probably going to get you retail minus S&H, or about 80% of IWM's price, depending on the listing you look at.
Still, you probably do have upwards of a few hundred dollars worth of figs there.
Wow, that started out on a down note.
Kelly Fuson, the guy they had planed to have GM the game has gone missing.
I'm not a Twitter person so this is the first I've heard of this.
Nips Oh, I got an answer as to why they multiplied everything by five for damage values. It's so they could tweak the damage values for different Manufacturers without dealing with fractions.
So, they're getting a little Front Mission in our Battletech? I'm down with that; I always kind of wanted something along those lines in a PC game since they put all this extraneous info in the tech readouts about who made what. Wonder if the different armor manufacturers will matter?
And different Autocannon makers will change if you have a burst fire AC or single shot AC, but it's purely cosmetic
That's awesome. This was always another level of optional abstract rules in tabletop (one of the million pieces of crunch that make the game either a drag to play on tabletop or too simple). The modern rules are here: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Design_Quirks but there were mech-specific quirks published in Dragon magazine in the 90s that captured the idiosyncratic descriptions of mech systems in the various TROs.
Glad to see them leveraging technology to make this kind of stuff practical.
kaliyama on
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited September 2017
Tinkering around in good old Solaris Skunk Werks today and came up with this:
Jagermech "Sturm" JM6-DuB (Donner und Blitzen; thunder and lightning, ie. bringing the storm)
Tech base: IS
Era: 3025
Tonnage: 65
Type: standard biped w/no hands, & no lower arm actuators
Internal Structure: Standard
Engine: 260 Standard
Walk: 4
Run: 6
internal Heat Sinks: 10 (singles)
Armor: 10 tons standard
Weapons:
PPC - Right Arm
Medium Laser - Head
Medium Laser - Center Torso
Medium Laser - Center Torso
3 tons AC-5 ammo - Left Torso
AC-5 - Left Arm
AC-5 - Left Arm
Basic idea is; AC-5's and PPC's have the same range bands (even the 3 minimum), giving you a 20-point long range strike for 12 heat (not counting movement heat) with 30 turns worth of ammo. Then you'd still have a 10 damage/10 heat poke. 3x MLas gives you respectable short range firepower (for the time period) to discourage people getting up in your grill. Ten tons of armor is a little light for its size, but it's +66% over the stock Jagermech and not uncommon for fire support heavies in the late succession wars (see the Catapult).
Tinkering around in good old Solaris Skunk Werks today and came up with this:
Jagermech "Sturm" JM6-DuB (Donner und Blitzen; thunder and lightning, ie. bringing the storm)
Tech base: IS
Era: 3025
Tonnage: 65
Type: standard biped w/no hands, & no lower arm actuators
Internal Structure: Standard
Engine: 260 Standard
Walk: 4
Run: 6
internal Heat Sinks: 10 (singles)
Armor: 10 tons standard
Weapons:
PPC - Right Arm
Medium Laser - Head
Medium Laser - Center Torso
Medium Laser - Center Torso
3 tons AC-5 ammo - Left Torso
AC-5 - Left Arm
AC-5 - Left Arm
Basic idea is; AC-5's and PPC's have the same range bands (even the 3 minimum), giving you a 20-point long range strike for 12 heat (not counting movement heat) with 30 turns worth of ammo. Then you'd still have a 10 damage/10 heat poke. 3x MLas gives you respectable short range firepower (for the time period) to discourage people getting up in your grill. Ten tons of armor is a little light for its size, but it's +66% over the stock Jagermech and not uncommon for fire support heavies in the late succession wars (see the Catapult).
Seems decent enough, since 3025 tech is kinda limited; my one concern with a mech like this is that if something gets up in it's grill it's not going to have the fire power/armor to brawl it's way to safety.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Yeah, it's definitely still a fire support design; but much safer than the stock Jagermech (+1 MLas, +4 tons armor), and more firepower at long range as well (20 vs 14). The story may be different for Battletech PC, where they've given the lighter AC's a damage boost, but I think this customization just highlights how much the AC2 needs something like that. Of course, the PC game's also probably not going to allow tabletop style unrestricted customization; I suspect it will have something along the lines of MWO's hardpoint system.
It was fun! But my team played terribly. It was 3v3, IS vs Clan. I had the assault lance and was advancing up blocking LOS with terrain as much as I could. Buuuut my teammates ran ahead full speed and basically crashed against the clan piecemeal and got dismantled, by the time my lance was in place the game was over.
I'd really like to play Alpha Strike as more than mech on mech, it seems to me the main strength of the simplified system would be bringing in infanty, aerotech, etc without the insane rules bloat and slowdown of regular btech.
Still, it was cool being able to finish a game with 3 lances on one side in like an hour and a half.
Inquisitor on
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
edited September 2017
Some of the optional advanced rules can help make smaller 'Mech on 'Mech fights more interesting; sprinting, defensive moves, variable damage, etc. I've been noodling on a combination and set of rules for this, and need to codify it at some point.
And the game is really good for combined arms, but it shows how *fragile* non-Mech units are.
Nips on
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited September 2017
@DaMoonRulz You're a big fan of the Dragon, right? Do you prefer the MWO one with the elbow on its gun-arm, or the concept art where it's a straight, unarticulated weapon mount?
Probably because my first exposure to the (non-unseen) old school IS mechs was the 4th edition boxed set in '96, I've always imagined the Dragon with a pure cannon for its right arm. Particularly this awesome image from the back of the "Introduction to Battletech" book that had the quickstart rules, a primer on the setting, and a kind of mini-tech readout for the mechs:
The MWO model seems weird and wrong to me as a result.
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
The thing that bugs me about the Dragon is that if the right arm is supposed to be an unarticulated cannon, its tabletop model grossly whiffs on the appearance. It also has a bit of ribbing on the rear of the arm, that depending on the paint job can make it look like there's an actuation point there, like so:
Notice how long and straight the arm is? Now rotate that up into the position in the second picture in @H3Knuckles post. Gross! It doesn't have any power or heft to its appearance, it just...kinda sticks out there. Check out this prime example of the derpy arm; the pose is great, but that arm is just dumb:
Now, if that arm were sculpted more like that drawing above, or even like that early MWO art render, that would look badass. But PGI went with the articulated-elbow variant, which looks good and provides some nice symmetry to the machine. That's why when I painted up my Oosiks Dragon, I converted it to @DaMoonRulz 's Shotgun variant.
I guess what I'm saying is, the TT model needs a rescupt.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited September 2017
Personally I'd be down for the entire range being resculpted according to MWO concept art & similar modern reworkings.
Speaking of art, there's something I'm not entirely clear on; is that Shimmering Sword guy part of MWO's art team, or does he just do freelance work? I love the stuff on his Deviant Art account.
There are some elements from the MWO changes that I like, and some I don't.
Bendy arms on the Dragon? Cool.
But they made EVERY mech very boxy which gets boring. The dragon's round, weird, sloping, angular shoulders are unique and gave it flair. Without them it loses most of its personality and charm.
Canonically, the official record sheet shows upper and lower arm actuators in the autocannon arm, therefore it bends. TRO 3025 happened to have the arm up, but I don't think there was any indication that the Dragonwasn't just holding its arm straight out.
Non-canonically, I think that art is kind of bad. Suspicious Liefeldesque snowdrifts obscuring the feet. Oversized A/C shells ejecting forwards but falling behind the 'Mech, Escher-style. Meh.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited September 2017
It's a hot metal body standing in snow next to the burning hulk of a fallen mech, shouldn't there be steam clouds? As for the second point; the AC shells are falling sideways out of the arm, but because the upper body is turned slightly to its right their trajectory puts them a bit behind the mech. The right foot is forward of the body, hence the apparent z-axis difference between its position and where the shells are falling. Seems fine to me?
Personally I'd be down for the entire range being resculpted according to MWO concept art & similar modern reworkings.
Speaking of art, there's something I'm not entirely clear on; is that Shimmering Sword guy part of MWO's art team, or does he just do freelance work? I love the stuff on his Deviant Art account.
I'm pretty sure he does freelance stuff for MWO, the tabletop game, and just fan commissions.
Posts
I'm getting obliterated.
I very specifically chose that side of the conflict.
In the rematch I wasn't as lucky, but fortunately the game time ended before the Dragon bit the dust.
Some more Grinder highlights:
After a round of sparring, DaMoon and I engage on an unfriendly target.
Then the three of us saw better fodder in the distance...
So, they're getting a little Front Mission in our Battletech? I'm down with that; I always kind of wanted something along those lines in a PC game since they put all this extraneous info in the tech readouts about who made what. Wonder if the different armor manufacturers will matter?
And different Autocannon makers will change if you have a burst fire AC or single shot AC, but it's purely cosmetic
http://www.sarna.net/news/harmony-gold-suing-the-company-that-sold-them-unseen-images/amp/
What the shit HG?!
I mean, from the article we don't know what exactly they're hoping to accomplish with that move. But dragging the actual Japanese rights situation into a US court (which seems inevitable with this newest suit) seems like an extremely dangerous move since their whole business model with Robotech has hinged on a questionable interpretation of their agreement with Tatsunoko.
Edit: Disregard, see Betsuni's post below.
Harmony Gold is the Donald Trump of anime distributors. They produce little of value, are constantly doing things that are stupid or obnoxious, are involved in laundering money for foreign officials, and somehow manage to keep avoiding their comeuppance.
https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9113/comments/177858
https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9113/comments/178476
Steam: betsuni7
Actually what would be funnier is if HG loses their license since they probably couldn't afford to make a new one. Then someone like HPG/PGI bought the rights to Robotech and sued HG for even mentioning that they once owned Robotech.
Edit: Sorry, my anger at HG reared its ugly head again. Usually comes when I remember that there is no new Macross shows here thanks to them.
Steam: betsuni7
Notice the Catapult - that's new! And beautiful!
The Shadow Hawk looks a little off, though, like its entire middle torso caved in and it's pretending to be a Javelin. Unless it's leaning in really far for a round of Greco-Roman wrestling.
Hmm, neat.
Most variants don't. The 1N has a quasi-deadside, with the LRM-10 and PPC in the right side and only a pair of jump jets to lose on the left. The 5K as well, but it mounts an LFE so it's more fragile. The 6S is similar to the 5K, but also gives up an ER Medium Laser on losing its left side.
I will happily take them off your hands, at a reasonable price, before I let it get to that.
No figure left behind!
$3 a mini for the last 2 box sets (3 total). $10 for each unseen included with the 3rd edition box. $10 each for the heavy unseen Lance. $20 for the original metal marauder 2. $13 for he metal grasshopper. $5 each for reinforcement pack mechs.
Shit... This is getting expensive
Given my eBay trawling experience, I doubt you'd get those prices. Some of the metal Unseen sculpts might go for $15+ (much more if it's a rare one) depending on the sculpts, but Third Edition Unseen plastics usually go for $5-10. Most of the modern plastics are going to go for $3.50 (Lance Pack) or less (Intro Box, unless the box set is complete as a whole) per fig. Modern metal on the secondary market is probably going to get you retail minus S&H, or about 80% of IWM's price, depending on the listing you look at.
Still, you probably do have upwards of a few hundred dollars worth of figs there.
Kelly Fuson, the guy they had planed to have GM the game has gone missing.
I'm not a Twitter person so this is the first I've heard of this.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
That's awesome. This was always another level of optional abstract rules in tabletop (one of the million pieces of crunch that make the game either a drag to play on tabletop or too simple). The modern rules are here: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Design_Quirks but there were mech-specific quirks published in Dragon magazine in the 90s that captured the idiosyncratic descriptions of mech systems in the various TROs.
Glad to see them leveraging technology to make this kind of stuff practical.
Jagermech "Sturm" JM6-DuB (Donner und Blitzen; thunder and lightning, ie. bringing the storm)
Tech base: IS
Era: 3025
Tonnage: 65
Type: standard biped w/no hands, & no lower arm actuators
Internal Structure: Standard
Engine: 260 Standard
Armor: 10 tons standard
Weapons:
Basic idea is; AC-5's and PPC's have the same range bands (even the 3 minimum), giving you a 20-point long range strike for 12 heat (not counting movement heat) with 30 turns worth of ammo. Then you'd still have a 10 damage/10 heat poke. 3x MLas gives you respectable short range firepower (for the time period) to discourage people getting up in your grill. Ten tons of armor is a little light for its size, but it's +66% over the stock Jagermech and not uncommon for fire support heavies in the late succession wars (see the Catapult).
Seems decent enough, since 3025 tech is kinda limited; my one concern with a mech like this is that if something gets up in it's grill it's not going to have the fire power/armor to brawl it's way to safety.
https://imgur.com/gallery/rVr69
It was fun! But my team played terribly. It was 3v3, IS vs Clan. I had the assault lance and was advancing up blocking LOS with terrain as much as I could. Buuuut my teammates ran ahead full speed and basically crashed against the clan piecemeal and got dismantled, by the time my lance was in place the game was over.
I'd really like to play Alpha Strike as more than mech on mech, it seems to me the main strength of the simplified system would be bringing in infanty, aerotech, etc without the insane rules bloat and slowdown of regular btech.
Still, it was cool being able to finish a game with 3 lances on one side in like an hour and a half.
And the game is really good for combined arms, but it shows how *fragile* non-Mech units are.
Probably because my first exposure to the (non-unseen) old school IS mechs was the 4th edition boxed set in '96, I've always imagined the Dragon with a pure cannon for its right arm. Particularly this awesome image from the back of the "Introduction to Battletech" book that had the quickstart rules, a primer on the setting, and a kind of mini-tech readout for the mechs:
The MWO model seems weird and wrong to me as a result.
Notice how long and straight the arm is? Now rotate that up into the position in the second picture in @H3Knuckles post. Gross! It doesn't have any power or heft to its appearance, it just...kinda sticks out there. Check out this prime example of the derpy arm; the pose is great, but that arm is just dumb:
Now, if that arm were sculpted more like that drawing above, or even like that early MWO art render, that would look badass. But PGI went with the articulated-elbow variant, which looks good and provides some nice symmetry to the machine. That's why when I painted up my Oosiks Dragon, I converted it to @DaMoonRulz 's Shotgun variant.
I guess what I'm saying is, the TT model needs a rescupt.
Speaking of art, there's something I'm not entirely clear on; is that Shimmering Sword guy part of MWO's art team, or does he just do freelance work? I love the stuff on his Deviant Art account.
Bendy arms on the Dragon? Cool.
But they made EVERY mech very boxy which gets boring. The dragon's round, weird, sloping, angular shoulders are unique and gave it flair. Without them it loses most of its personality and charm.
Non-canonically, I think that art is kind of bad. Suspicious Liefeldesque snowdrifts obscuring the feet. Oversized A/C shells ejecting forwards but falling behind the 'Mech, Escher-style. Meh.
I'm pretty sure he does freelance stuff for MWO, the tabletop game, and just fan commissions.