The only way you can potentially claim that Brady is not the best ever is if you suggest that because he rules are stacked in favor of QBs now, older QBs were better. But no modern QB can make that claim against Brady. And Brady cleans all of their clocks in terms of advanced and standard statistics.
Re:schuss. Brady has better technical stats than Manning and has these stats playing outside compared to manning playing inside. Brady is much better a technical QB than manning.
Statistics are not earned in a vacuum in football.
Statistics are not earned in a vacuum in anything but they are earned And you don’t get to claim that someone who hasn’t earned them would have if the stars aligned just so. Maybe someone else would have been better if they had Belicheck? Who cares? They didn’t. Just like they don’t have Brady’s mechanics or game sense or eye for picking receivers or any of Bradys development coaches or Bledsoe to play behind in their formative years or his life coach or water quality.
Whatever it is that Brady has* they don’t. And that is what matters
*had
OK. Manning has more career yards and TDS. Qed.
I could probably be convinced to take peak Brady over peak Manning. I could probably be convinced to do it the other way around. But the arguments that it is clear-cut Brady seems unconvincing
Aaron Rodgers is the Bo Jackson of QBs, only if Bo was able to come back from his broken bone in 6 weeks.
It’s fucking dumb how gifted Rodgers is
I think I’m ok having the conversation of GOAT and not really mentioning him as long as we acknowledge that Aaron Rodgers can throw the ball 900 yards and squeeze it through the eye of a needle, but he hasn’t been as successful as a bunch of other dudes who were as good/better at winning.
Aaron Rodgers is the Bo Jackson of QBs, only if Bo was able to come back from his broken bone in 6 weeks.
It’s fucking dumb how gifted Rodgers is
I think I’m ok having the conversation of GOAT and not really mentioning him as long as we acknowledge that Aaron Rodgers can throw the ball 900 yards and squeeze it through the eye of a needle, but he hasn’t been as successful as a bunch of other dudes who were as good/better at winning.
I mean he did win a Super Bowl. It’s not like he never got a ring.
I mean we're probably never going to know how good luck really is because he's been saddled with a terrible coach and a terrible GM and a terrible line and a terrible everything and none of that is his fault
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I mean we're probably never going to know how good luck really is because he's been saddled with a terrible coach and a terrible GM and a terrible line and a terrible everything and none of that is his fault
Although he’s getting paid so there is that. He’s like fuck a legacy I’m taking the money. A man after my own heart honestly.
Tom Brady injures his knee and misses a whole season and the Pats go 11-5. Tom Brady finally faces up to his dirty rotten cheating (don’t forget about his cheating!! GOATS don’t cheat!) and the Pats go 3-1.
Meanwhile Matt Stafford injures a finger last year and the Lions shit the bed completely. I think we all know who the GOAT is.
Tom Brady injures his knee and misses a whole season and the Pats go 11-5. Tom Brady finally faces up to his dirty rotten cheating (don’t forget about his cheating!! GOATS don’t cheat!) and the Pats go 3-1.
Meanwhile Matt Stafford injures a finger last year and the Lions shit the bed completely. I think we all know who the GOAT is.
Was going to say the same re Brady, but use Rodgers as the counterpoint.
Again, Brady is a good, if not great QB. But that his absence doesn't really significantly affect the team's capacity to win, is important for comparison. Compared to Rodgers, who, excepting a rocky 6-10 opening season in 2008 is 89-37* in the regular season, and without is 5-11 and a tie.
* There is a few games where Aaron sat in the final game, I just extracted the "Aaron is uninjured from Aaron is injured" games, but he's still going to be ~70% with, ~30% without. Brady's absence barely moves the needle.
All this with Mike "Adjustments? Game Plan? Aggression? What's that?" McCarthy instead of the best coach in the league (if not all time). Oh, but what about post season games? Yeah, I can point out a few post-season losses directly attributable to McCarthy being mediocrity maximized. Same can't be said about Belichick.
The only way you can potentially claim that Brady is not the best ever is if you suggest that because he rules are stacked in favor of QBs now, older QBs were better. But no modern QB can make that claim against Brady. And Brady cleans all of their clocks in terms of advanced and standard statistics.
Re:schuss. Brady has better technical stats than Manning and has these stats playing outside compared to manning playing inside. Brady is much better a technical QB than manning.
Seems like it'd completely depend on what you consider to make a "good QB." You seem to be ruling out all the ways in with other QBs are superior to Brady as insignificant, and counting all the ways in which Brady is superior to other QBs as qualifying.
I.e. we know Brady's arm strength is lacking. But apparently that doesn't count? Similarly Manning's mastery and, frankly, coaching of a no-huddle offense. Which I actually wouldn't consider to make Manning a better QB than Brady, but Belichik's never said in his life, "If Tom Brady goes down, we're fucked, and we don't practice fucked."
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y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
Tom Brady injures his knee and misses a whole season and the Pats go 11-5. Tom Brady finally faces up to his dirty rotten cheating (don’t forget about his cheating!! GOATS don’t cheat!) and the Pats go 3-1.
Meanwhile Matt Stafford injures a finger last year and the Lions shit the bed completely. I think we all know who the GOAT is.
Was going to say the same re Brady, but use Rodgers as the counterpoint.
Again, Brady is a good, if not great QB. But that his absence doesn't really significantly affect the team's capacity to win, is important for comparison. Compared to Rodgers, who, excepting a rocky 6-10 opening season in 2008 is 89-37* in the regular season, and without is 5-11 and a tie.
* There is a few games where Aaron sat in the final game, I just extracted the "Aaron is uninjured from Aaron is injured" games, but he's still going to be ~70% with, ~30% without. Brady's absence barely moves the needle.
All this with Mike "Adjustments? Game Plan? Aggression? What's that?" McCarthy instead of the best coach in the league (if not all time). Oh, but what about post season games? Yeah, I can point out a few post-season losses directly attributable to McCarthy being mediocrity maximized. Same can't be said about Belichick.
I don't think there are nearly enough games in which either player is missing to make any sort of judgment call. In 2008, the patriots returned basically the entirety of an undefeated team with an unreal offense, swapped out Brady for cassel, and scored 11 ppg less than they did the year before
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Aaron Rodgers rolled out of the pocket standing on his toes is the single scariest sight in football.
A td is about to happen and there is nothing you can do about it.
Unless you're a fan of those TDs. Then the scariest sight in football is Rodgers getting tackled hard/landing awkwardly, and heading to the locker room...
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
The only way you can potentially claim that Brady is not the best ever is if you suggest that because he rules are stacked in favor of QBs now, older QBs were better. But no modern QB can make that claim against Brady. And Brady cleans all of their clocks in terms of advanced and standard statistics.
Re:schuss. Brady has better technical stats than Manning and has these stats playing outside compared to manning playing inside. Brady is much better a technical QB than manning.
Seems like it'd completely depend on what you consider to make a "good QB." You seem to be ruling out all the ways in with other QBs are superior to Brady as insignificant, and counting all the ways in which Brady is superior to other QBs as qualifying.
I.e. we know Brady's arm strength is lacking. But apparently that doesn't count? Similarly Manning's mastery and, frankly, coaching of a no-huddle offense. Which I actually wouldn't consider to make Manning a better QB than Brady, but Belichik's never said in his life, "If Tom Brady goes down, we're fucked, and we don't practice fucked."
Is lacking, not was lacking. Like, if we are going by “now” stats Manning was the worst quarterback in the league by leaps and bounds in his last year of play. Yea Brady isn’t as good as he was, of course he isn’t. He’s 40
In seriousness, I think that if you take a totally average team across the board, Manning wins with that team before Brady. Manning is better at game management, and reading the defense.
In seriousness, I think that if you take a totally average team across the board, Manning wins with that team before Brady. Manning is better at game management, and reading the defense.
I remember a commentator suggesting (hyperbolically) that Mohammed Sanu was (or maybe a holder for a FG team?), because on the few plays where he threw it, he was awesome.
Brady is one of the greatest to play the game, there is no need to qualify that. So was Manning, so is Rogers.
What I don't understand is why it's always Patriot Way this and "cut em a year early and not a year too late" that and Bellicheck working wonders with the leagues scraps until you're talking about Brady and then all of a sudden the cart is dragging the horse around.
If Brady was getting paid what he should have been all of this time we'd be in at least our second year of Garoppolo under center.
Every year the Pats will field a good running game, a quality offensive line and good/great tight end situation. In other words the 3 best defenses against blitzes you can ask for. Year in and year out Brady does not have to hold onto the ball only to get stomped by a pass rusher on every other down. It has done wonders for his health, numbers and his ability to focus on the game.
The teams that can get pressure on Brady without a blitz are the ones that have given him the most trouble and made him look the most human (Hello New York Giants).
The Pats would still have at least four titles with Eli Manning under center for the last fifteen years. Ditto for Payton, Rivers, Rothlisberger or Rogers.
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y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
In seriousness, I think that if you take a totally average team across the board, Manning wins with that team before Brady. Manning is better at game management, and reading the defense.
Brady did get to an AFC championship game and had a 4th in DVOA offense with a receiving corps of Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, Jabar Gaffney, and 35 year old Troy Brown
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2018
Brady is the single most adaptable QB to ever play.
That's why I put him higher than the others.
All these other QBs are great, I take nothing away from Brees, Rogers, Manning, or anyone. But they get offenses designed around them.
Brady has a different offense every couple years and still plays at peak.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited January 2018
This is TJ Lang's first year with Detroit and he started this video series called "Talkin' with TJ" where he does a short jokey interview with a different Lions player each week.
Brady is the single most adaptable QB to ever play.
That's why I put him higher than the others.
All these other QBs are great, I take nothing away from Brees, Rogers, Manning, or anyone. But they get offenses designed around them.
Brady has a different offense every couple years and still plays at peak.
Does that make him adaptable though? And moreso than the others? He doesn't do much different in each offense. There are absolutely QBs who struggled when transitioning to new offenses, new calls, new lexicon, but it's not like Brady's really been in that situation. His coaching staff has consistently been the same, and the Patriots generally run the same offense for a few years, at least, based on personnel. They'll go, say, run-heavy in some games, but that's not really a huge mental load on Brady to have to hand the ball off more.
But more importantly, the other QBs weren't asked to run different offenses every year. I don't really see any indication that Rodgers or Brees couldn't play like that, given that both of them are capable of hitting every throw all over the field. Hell, it seems sometimes like Rodgers runs a different offense every other play: one in which they execute the play-call, and the other when everything goes to shit and he improvises.
Brady has no glaring weaknesses except for the one a lot of great quarterbacks have and that is questionable mobility.
His greatest strength is that year in and year out he'll be in an offense where he doesn't have to constantly scramble out of the pocket and usually has at least one quick dump option that will keep them in positive yardage and him off the turf.
Payton Manning spent his last couple years in Indianapolis running for his life and it cost him almost two years of his career - at minimum - because he very well could still be playing if he hadn't nearly been crippled there. And the year he missed the Colts we're so instantly lousy they were able to draft Andrew Luck.
We've seen the Pats with Bledsoe and the hoodie. And Garoppolo and the hoodie and so on.
Hell the Pats went out and got Kirk Cousins this season they'll still be right back in the AFC Championship game next year if Bellicheck is still there. Brady is a hall of famer and one of the best since Montana but I'll never call him GOAT because he's played every down for the GOAT coach/talent evaluator and that just can't be ignored.
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Brady has no glaring weaknesses except for the one a lot of great quarterbacks have and that is questionable mobility.
His greatest strength is that year in and year out he'll be in an offense where he doesn't have to constantly scramble out of the pocket and usually has at least one quick dump option that will keep them in positive yardage and him off the turf.
Payton Manning spent his last couple years in Indianapolis running for his life and it cost him almost two years of his career - at minimum - because he very well could still be playing if he hadn't nearly been crippled there. And the year he missed the Colts we're so instantly lousy they were able to draft Andrew Luck.
We've seen the Pats with Bledsoe and the hoodie. And Garoppolo and the hoodie and so on.
Hell the Pats went out and got Kirk Cousins this season they'll still be right back in the AFC Championship game next year if Bellicheck is still there. Brady is a hall of famer and one of the best since Montana but I'll never call him GOAT because he's played every down for the GOAT coach/talent evaluator and that just can't be ignored.
Brady has incredible mobility, but not as a runner. What he has is an uncanny ability to take two steps that put him exactly where he needs to be. He will step, maybe duck a diving rusher, and fire before anyone can get close to him. The Patriot's usually good O-line helps, but Brady helps them by reading the field amazingly quickly and by having one of the fastest releases in the NFL.
Bledsoe and Belichick went 5-11 the year before Tom took them to the Super Bowl. They had Bledsoe, Kevin Faulk, Troy Brown, Terry Glenn, Willie McGinest, Tedy Bruschi, Ty Law, Lawyer Malloy, Adam Vinatieri -- just about every hero from the 2001 season, except one... And that one player is credited by several of the names I listed as having revitalized the locker room when he started playing, giving them the confidence that turned them into world beaters.
This is TJ Lang's first year with Detroit and he started this video series called "Talkin' with TJ" where he does a short jokey interview with a different Lions player each week.
It’s not the only argument but come on when people say this kind of crap about Kapernick or Wilson it gets shot down and it gets shot down rightfully. (hell we had people saying Manning was better because he was a better “game manager” as if that wasn’t used to dump on Wilson every chance cowherd could get)
Maybe the problem that people are having is that Brady isn’t the best right now? But you don’t have to be he best every season to be the best of total seasons.
Game manager as applied to Manning meant he was managing the entire offense and effectively functioning as offensive coordinator on the field.
Game manager as applied to guys like Alex Smith and whatnot was always a knock that they weren't going to win you the game, but they wouldn't lose it either. This is a weak strawman. Also the term doesn't apply even apply to Russel Wilson, Cowherd is just a racist.
Game manager as applied to Manning meant he was managing the entire offense and effectively functioning as offensive coordinator on the field.
Game manager as applied to guys like Alex Smith and whatnot was always a knock that they weren't going to win you the game, but they wouldn't lose it either. This is a weak strawman. Also the term doesn't apply even apply to Russel Wilson, Cowherd is just a racist.
Just because the reason for your poor reasoning isn’t racism doesn’t make it good reasoning.
Kiper is starting the drumbeat for a dude with a 56% completion percentage as the #1 overall pick. Which to be fair, would be very Browns. But he's so tall! And majestic! With such a strong arm!
Bortles was a better pro prospect than Josh Allen.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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jmcdonaldI voted, did you?DC(ish)Registered Userregular
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Those are the only thing Manning had
It’s fucking dumb how gifted Rodgers is
I think I’m ok having the conversation of GOAT and not really mentioning him as long as we acknowledge that Aaron Rodgers can throw the ball 900 yards and squeeze it through the eye of a needle, but he hasn’t been as successful as a bunch of other dudes who were as good/better at winning.
at Civil War reenactments
A td is about to happen and there is nothing you can do about it.
Meanwhile Matt Stafford injures a finger last year and the Lions shit the bed completely. I think we all know who the GOAT is.
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He would have earned the game winning touchdown for Minnesota without needing to rely on a rookie DB fucking up.
Again, Brady is a good, if not great QB. But that his absence doesn't really significantly affect the team's capacity to win, is important for comparison. Compared to Rodgers, who, excepting a rocky 6-10 opening season in 2008 is 89-37* in the regular season, and without is 5-11 and a tie.
* There is a few games where Aaron sat in the final game, I just extracted the "Aaron is uninjured from Aaron is injured" games, but he's still going to be ~70% with, ~30% without. Brady's absence barely moves the needle.
All this with Mike "Adjustments? Game Plan? Aggression? What's that?" McCarthy instead of the best coach in the league (if not all time). Oh, but what about post season games? Yeah, I can point out a few post-season losses directly attributable to McCarthy being mediocrity maximized. Same can't be said about Belichick.
Seems like it'd completely depend on what you consider to make a "good QB." You seem to be ruling out all the ways in with other QBs are superior to Brady as insignificant, and counting all the ways in which Brady is superior to other QBs as qualifying.
I.e. we know Brady's arm strength is lacking. But apparently that doesn't count? Similarly Manning's mastery and, frankly, coaching of a no-huddle offense. Which I actually wouldn't consider to make Manning a better QB than Brady, but Belichik's never said in his life, "If Tom Brady goes down, we're fucked, and we don't practice fucked."
I don't think there are nearly enough games in which either player is missing to make any sort of judgment call. In 2008, the patriots returned basically the entirety of an undefeated team with an unreal offense, swapped out Brady for cassel, and scored 11 ppg less than they did the year before
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
Unless you're a fan of those TDs. Then the scariest sight in football is Rodgers getting tackled hard/landing awkwardly, and heading to the locker room...
Is lacking, not was lacking. Like, if we are going by “now” stats Manning was the worst quarterback in the league by leaps and bounds in his last year of play. Yea Brady isn’t as good as he was, of course he isn’t. He’s 40
In seriousness, I think that if you take a totally average team across the board, Manning wins with that team before Brady. Manning is better at game management, and reading the defense.
I like that storyline.
What I don't understand is why it's always Patriot Way this and "cut em a year early and not a year too late" that and Bellicheck working wonders with the leagues scraps until you're talking about Brady and then all of a sudden the cart is dragging the horse around.
If Brady was getting paid what he should have been all of this time we'd be in at least our second year of Garoppolo under center.
Every year the Pats will field a good running game, a quality offensive line and good/great tight end situation. In other words the 3 best defenses against blitzes you can ask for. Year in and year out Brady does not have to hold onto the ball only to get stomped by a pass rusher on every other down. It has done wonders for his health, numbers and his ability to focus on the game.
The teams that can get pressure on Brady without a blitz are the ones that have given him the most trouble and made him look the most human (Hello New York Giants).
The Pats would still have at least four titles with Eli Manning under center for the last fifteen years. Ditto for Payton, Rivers, Rothlisberger or Rogers.
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Brady did get to an AFC championship game and had a 4th in DVOA offense with a receiving corps of Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, Jabar Gaffney, and 35 year old Troy Brown
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
That's why I put him higher than the others.
All these other QBs are great, I take nothing away from Brees, Rogers, Manning, or anyone. But they get offenses designed around them.
Brady has a different offense every couple years and still plays at peak.
He's a funny dude and the interviews have been pretty great. There's been this running joke where they sit on completely ridiculous items because they are "waiting on Stafford to buy them proper chairs." You can see all the ridiculous stuff they sit on in the blooper reel: http://www.detroitlions.com/media-center/videos/Talkin-With-TJ-Best-of--Bloopers/bfce2082-ed86-4612-9264-0470fa2d9450
The last one of the season is with Stafford and I think its the best one so far. Give this one a watch, its worth it. Had me laughing the whole time:
http://www.detroitlions.com/media-center/videos/Talkin-With-TJ-Matthew-Stafford/4aa0034c-4cf6-487e-9140-2cd938ba08fb
Does that make him adaptable though? And moreso than the others? He doesn't do much different in each offense. There are absolutely QBs who struggled when transitioning to new offenses, new calls, new lexicon, but it's not like Brady's really been in that situation. His coaching staff has consistently been the same, and the Patriots generally run the same offense for a few years, at least, based on personnel. They'll go, say, run-heavy in some games, but that's not really a huge mental load on Brady to have to hand the ball off more.
But more importantly, the other QBs weren't asked to run different offenses every year. I don't really see any indication that Rodgers or Brees couldn't play like that, given that both of them are capable of hitting every throw all over the field. Hell, it seems sometimes like Rodgers runs a different offense every other play: one in which they execute the play-call, and the other when everything goes to shit and he improvises.
His greatest strength is that year in and year out he'll be in an offense where he doesn't have to constantly scramble out of the pocket and usually has at least one quick dump option that will keep them in positive yardage and him off the turf.
Payton Manning spent his last couple years in Indianapolis running for his life and it cost him almost two years of his career - at minimum - because he very well could still be playing if he hadn't nearly been crippled there. And the year he missed the Colts we're so instantly lousy they were able to draft Andrew Luck.
We've seen the Pats with Bledsoe and the hoodie. And Garoppolo and the hoodie and so on.
Hell the Pats went out and got Kirk Cousins this season they'll still be right back in the AFC Championship game next year if Bellicheck is still there. Brady is a hall of famer and one of the best since Montana but I'll never call him GOAT because he's played every down for the GOAT coach/talent evaluator and that just can't be ignored.
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Brady has incredible mobility, but not as a runner. What he has is an uncanny ability to take two steps that put him exactly where he needs to be. He will step, maybe duck a diving rusher, and fire before anyone can get close to him. The Patriot's usually good O-line helps, but Brady helps them by reading the field amazingly quickly and by having one of the fastest releases in the NFL.
Bledsoe and Belichick went 5-11 the year before Tom took them to the Super Bowl. They had Bledsoe, Kevin Faulk, Troy Brown, Terry Glenn, Willie McGinest, Tedy Bruschi, Ty Law, Lawyer Malloy, Adam Vinatieri -- just about every hero from the 2001 season, except one... And that one player is credited by several of the names I listed as having revitalized the locker room when he started playing, giving them the confidence that turned them into world beaters.
Nah, Brady is the GOAT.
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
He reminds me a lot of Chris Pratt.
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gee it's almost like calling someone the greatest of all time outside of insane outliers like wayne gretzky or don bradman is a fools errand.
Brady is uh kind of an outlier
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Players who can eat it:
Tom Brady
Jeff Fisher
Maybe the problem that people are having is that Brady isn’t the best right now? But you don’t have to be he best every season to be the best of total seasons.
Unfortunately, Jeff Fisher is only available to eat it from 7-9.
every day. every year.
forever.
Game manager as applied to guys like Alex Smith and whatnot was always a knock that they weren't going to win you the game, but they wouldn't lose it either. This is a weak strawman. Also the term doesn't apply even apply to Russel Wilson, Cowherd is just a racist.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Just because the reason for your poor reasoning isn’t racism doesn’t make it good reasoning.
Bortles was a better pro prospect than Josh Allen.
This checks out