The frustrating part about all of this to me is that there should have been no gun in the situation whatsoever. There is no excuse to have a firearm in this situation (never mind a restricted firearm) and there was definitely no reason to point it at these people. If you feel your life is threatened, call the cops and find a place to hide safely. If you want, maybe have a last line of defense in case they do break into your home and find you. But you do not run outside and fire rounds into the air in an attempt to scare people away. It is so fucking reckless and more likely to cause a non-deadly situation escalate into a deadly one.
I would have understood a lesser charge, but for him to get off completely is utterly baffling.
How did all of Boushie's compatriots not also get charged btw? Loaded firearm in the car, driving while intoxicated, trying to run over people, trying to steal a quad.... It goes both ways here.
Both sides were extremely stupid.
One of my friends whose brother is an RCMP officer said there is a lot of facts about the case that the press didn't report on-just like one of Trudeau's town halls. He said:
1.) All the farms in the area had been robbed.
2.) The farm in which the shooting happened had already been robbed once
3.) The person who got shot was a career criminal, and was a suspect in these robberies
4.) The crown screwed up the case by not going after the mishandling of the firearm.
Burglary isn't a capital offense and there is no way in hell the shooter gets acquitted anywhere in the country if the victim is white.
The issue is that simple.
"He was a bad hombre" doesn't justify any of this shit.
Brown had left behind a centre-right platform that promised tax cuts and other conservative red meat, but that also promised significant new spending and a tax on carbon emissions to help pay for it all.
On Thursday all the candidates reiterated their opposition to the tax — two of them vowing to take the Trudeau government to court if it imposes a levy. Three of the four said they would revisit or tear up the Kathleen Wynne administration’s sex ed curriculum, an issue Brown had carefully avoided.
And all said they would either halt or phase in more gradually the next stage in the provincial Liberals’ promised minimum-wage increase, to $15 next year.
[...]
“What people are looking for is something different,” Mulroney said when asked if she had the experience to be premier of Canada’s biggest province. “They want a new approach to politics, they don’t want a career politician.”
[...]
“Justin Trudeau doesn’t tell us what to do in Ontario,” said Elliott. “We don’t need to tax people to be environmentally responsible.”
[...]
Tanya Granic Allen, who heads a group opposed to the curriculum and is pledging to give social conservatives a greater voice in the party, asserted her position most aggressively, and at times colourfully.
“Maybe students would focus more on math if they weren’t talking about anal sex in the classroom,” she said about the sex ed curriculum.
[...]
Ford repeatedly cited his experience “governing” Toronto as a city councillor at the time his late brother Rob was mayor, boasting that they found $1 billion in savings without any layoffs. Cutting costs in the provincial government with its much bigger budget will be way easier, he said.
So Mulroney is playing the "we hate politics" card, Elliott the "we hate the environment" card, Allen the "we hate education" card, and Ford the "I have no idea what I'm doing here" card.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Please, please not Ford. I'll take... Mulroney, I guess? It's weird that she doesn't consider herself a career politician when she's the daughter of a Prime Minister.
Please, please not Ford. I'll take... Mulroney, I guess? It's weird that she doesn't consider herself a career politician when she's the daughter of a Prime Minister.
Everybody knows monarchy is superior to technocracy.
The frustrating part about all of this to me is that there should have been no gun in the situation whatsoever. There is no excuse to have a firearm in this situation (never mind a restricted firearm) and there was definitely no reason to point it at these people. If you feel your life is threatened, call the cops and find a place to hide safely. If you want, maybe have a last line of defense in case they do break into your home and find you. But you do not run outside and fire rounds into the air in an attempt to scare people away. It is so fucking reckless and more likely to cause a non-deadly situation escalate into a deadly one.
I would have understood a lesser charge, but for him to get off completely is utterly baffling.
How did all of Boushie's compatriots not also get charged btw? Loaded firearm in the car, driving while intoxicated, trying to run over people, trying to steal a quad.... It goes both ways here.
Both sides were extremely stupid.
One of my friends whose brother is an RCMP officer said there is a lot of facts about the case that the press didn't report on-just like one of Trudeau's town halls. He said:
1.) All the farms in the area had been robbed.
2.) The farm in which the shooting happened had already been robbed once
3.) The person who got shot was a career criminal, and was a suspect in these robberies
4.) The crown screwed up the case by not going after the mishandling of the firearm.
None of these points justify the use of deadly force. There is no reason that man should have had a restricted firearm readily available to defend his property like he did and even ignoring that, there is no reason in this situation to use deadly force.
This man committed manslaughter based on the evidence that is readily available. He should not be walking free after what he did.
At least Mulroney is claiming she'll release a fully detailed budget if elected party leader. It'd be nice to see literally anything concrete out of any political party. Not that I'd vote for those chumps anyways, but you know.
I did have a bit of a belly laugh at the good, old, "We'll just cut some government waste to pay for it" being trotted out again.
Also what in the living hell are the Ontario NDP doing. They're not even...present in the current conversation.
Please, please not Ford. I'll take... Mulroney, I guess? It's weird that she doesn't consider herself a career politician when she's the daughter of a Prime Minister.
She's never done anything in politics before, so how is that weird? I'm not considered a career stay-at-home mom for being the son of one.
Burglary isn't a capital offense and there is no way in hell the shooter gets acquitted anywhere in the country if the victim is white.
The issue is that simple.
"He was a bad hombre" doesn't justify any of this shit.
I think the outcome would have been identical if it was a car full of drunk white kids.
People are not very sympathetic to people that go looking for trouble and find it.
Please, please not Ford. I'll take... Mulroney, I guess? It's weird that she doesn't consider herself a career politician when she's the daughter of a Prime Minister.
She's never done anything in politics before, so how is that weird? I'm not considered a career stay-at-home mom for being the son of one.
Ah, my use of "career" was too informal.
I just have difficulty believing anyone is a political outsider when their parent held the highest possible political office in the country.
Not even the slightest chance it would have been the same outcome.
Nah, there's plenty of chance of a similar outcome.
Like, let's not get ridiculous here. It is true that shooting Boushie was at best manslaughter (at least as I understand it) or whatever specific law covers negligent homicide and that Stanley getting off scot-free is a fucking travesty. It is also true that these guys were trespassing on Stanley's property almost certainly with the intent of stealing a vehicle. This is not a situation where a confrontation is unlikely no matter the race of anyone involved. Certainly not with Stanley seeming to be perfectly willing to bring a loaded gun into the situation.
Almost certainly less likely a bunch of white guys get shot but it's absolutely likely given Stanley getting a gun involved in the altercation.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Please, please not Ford. I'll take... Mulroney, I guess? It's weird that she doesn't consider herself a career politician when she's the daughter of a Prime Minister.
She's never done anything in politics before, so how is that weird? I'm not considered a career stay-at-home mom for being the son of one.
Ah, my use of "career" was too informal.
I just have difficulty believing anyone is a political outsider when their parent held the highest possible political office in the country.
I don't remember much of the Mulroney era, but I don't remember much talk about their kids. If she's never run for office before, or done any political activism, I don't see why simply having a father who was in politics automatically makes her an 'insider'. Besides the last time Mulroney was in politics was what, 30 years ago?
Not even the slightest chance it would have been the same outcome.
Nah, there's plenty of chance of a similar outcome.
Like, let's not get ridiculous here. It is true that shooting Boushie was at best manslaughter (at least as I understand it) or whatever specific law covers negligent homicide and that Stanley getting off scot-free is a fucking travesty. It is also true that these guys were trespassing on Stanley's property almost certainly with the intent of stealing a vehicle. This is not a situation where a confrontation is unlikely no matter the race of anyone involved. Certainly not with Stanley seeming to be perfectly willing to bring a loaded gun into the situation.
Almost certainly less likely a bunch of white guys get shot but it's absolutely likely given Stanley getting a gun involved in the altercation.
Ok, I see how you could see it that way.
I am certain though with what I have learned about the differences between de-escalation and escalation in these kinds of situations, if you fear for your life or the life of others around you, the situation often escalates.
And racists / bigots fear for their life around those they have a bias against WAY more.
The situation does not play out the same if its a bunch of people the same skin tone / culture as the cops or whoever, unfortunately. It is part of the reason I am so glad RCMP go through so much training and education to become one, there is some hope in that they learn to fear less in responding to stressful situations.
Burglary isn't a capital offense and there is no way in hell the shooter gets acquitted anywhere in the country if the victim is white.
The issue is that simple.
"He was a bad hombre" doesn't justify any of this shit.
I think the outcome would have been identical if it was a car full of drunk white kids.
People are not very sympathetic to people that go looking for trouble and find it.
Burglary isn't a capital offense and there is no way in hell the shooter gets acquitted anywhere in the country if the victim is white.
The issue is that simple.
"He was a bad hombre" doesn't justify any of this shit.
I think the outcome would have been identical if it was a car full of drunk white kids.
People are not very sympathetic to people that go looking for trouble and find it.
One, he should have been charged for the flagrant misuse of a restricted weapon and that absolutely should have been a conviction. Two, if they were white the shooting wouldn't have happened.
One, he should have been charged for the flagrant misuse of a restricted weapon and that absolutely should have been a conviction. Two, if they were white the shooting wouldn't have happened.
Say all you want about whether the gun would have gone off or not after he knew who he was pointing it at. But from the stuff I skimmed by, he grabbed the gun before he knew the race of whoever was on his property?
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I will grant that the racism aspect of all this may not have been in the act of shooting Bouchie. I think the racism aspect of this was in the trial and verdict.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I don't think Boushie's actions were race motivated.
Not finding him guilty of manslaughter absolutely is influenced by the races of the accused and the victim.
Yeah, I don't think Boushie's actions were race motivated.
Not finding him guilty of manslaughter absolutely is influenced by the races of the accused and the victim.
Oh for sure.
The trial (especially jury selection) had a whole slew of racial problems.
All I was saying is I don't see anything about the whole incident itself that is racist from what I've seen. Stanley grabbed his gun before he saw the faces of any of the people involved.
Yeah, I don't think Boushie's actions were race motivated.
Not finding him guilty of manslaughter absolutely is influenced by the races of the accused and the victim.
Oh for sure.
The trial (especially jury selection) had a whole slew of racial problems.
All I was saying is I don't see anything about the whole incident itself that is racist from what I've seen. Stanley grabbed his gun before he saw the faces of any of the people involved.
Right but did he point it at them before that?
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
That is one beautiful, amusing statement at the end there, yup. The OPC seem to really hate Patrick Brown.
Edit: Oh for...and now CBC is reporting that Brown was seen dropping papers off at their leadership building, with every indication that he'll be entering the leadership race to pick who would replace Brown as leader.
As much as I hate to devolve this into an argument over anecdotal evidence, my uncle does have an elk farm, does have a problem with poachers, and has taken warning shots at them from his rifle. Their race didn't factor in.
I'm not defending my uncle. Quite frankly he's a cunt. He's boasted about this act, so I want to put about 50% of it into a /r/thathappened post. He never boasted about picking off some - well I'll let you fill in the expletive here - though, just that he shot at poachers.
But I think the only area where we can say with certainty that racism played a part here is in the application of the judicial system. Anything else is speculation based on personal bias or ideology.
I don't think anyone at all in the thread argued he shot him because of race. I'll even grant that people do defend their property with weapons. It's the verdict.
Also, those two quick google articles aren't remotely the same situation and in the Michelle stobbe case, she isn't white so...
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Please, please not Ford. I'll take... Mulroney, I guess? It's weird that she doesn't consider herself a career politician when she's the daughter of a Prime Minister.
She's never done anything in politics before, so how is that weird? I'm not considered a career stay-at-home mom for being the son of one.
Ah, my use of "career" was too informal.
I just have difficulty believing anyone is a political outsider when their parent held the highest possible political office in the country.
I don't remember much of the Mulroney era, but I don't remember much talk about their kids. If she's never run for office before, or done any political activism, I don't see why simply having a father who was in politics automatically makes her an 'insider'. Besides the last time Mulroney was in politics was what, 30 years ago?
She's already going to start out with introductions and access to Canadian politicians, foreign heads of state, as well as donors that a normal "outsider" wouldn't have access to, as well as whatever additional favors that a former prime minister can grant.
That is one beautiful, amusing statement at the end there, yup. The OPC seem to really hate Patrick Brown.
Edit: Oh for...and now CBC is reporting that Brown was seen dropping papers off at their leadership building, with every indication that he'll be entering the leadership race to pick who would replace Brown as leader.
I don't know if I agree with him, but his column is the only real coverage/analysis of what the fuck's going on in that leadership race that I've seen so far. Everybody else so far seems to be fixated on Brown suing CTV, Fedelli kicking Brown out, Djikstra being tossed, riding nominations in revolt, candidates being reviewed, the police case...... okay, so there's a lot to cover. Still.
I don't know if I agree with him, but his column is the only real coverage/analysis of what the fuck's going on in that leadership race that I've seen so far. Everybody else so far seems to be fixated on Brown suing CTV, Fedelli kicking Brown out, Djikstra being tossed, riding nominations in revolt, candidates being reviewed, the police case...... okay, so there's a lot to cover. Still.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
At this point, do the other candidates really have to do anything other than say: "Patrick Brown has entered the race to replace Patrick Brown as leader of the OPC."
At this point, do the other candidates really have to do anything other than say: "Patrick Brown has entered the race to replace Patrick Brown as leader of the OPC."
? I don't understand. They're completely tearing the platform apart. Reversing minimum wage increase, reversing carbon tax plan, reversing sex education plan, reversing expansion of pharmacare to under 25s. There's literally not a platform remaining any more for the PCs, except a general, "Anything Wynne does, we're going to do the opposite!" theme.
hippofant on
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
At this point, do the other candidates really have to do anything other than say: "Patrick Brown has entered the race to replace Patrick Brown as leader of the OPC."
? I don't understand. They're completely tearing the platform apart. Reversing minimum wage increase, reversing carbon tax plan, reversing sex education plan, reversing expansion of pharmacare to under 25s. There's literally not a platform remaining any more for the PCs, except a general, "Anything Wynne does, we're going to do the opposite!" theme.
I was more glibly commenting at the OPC leadership candidates contest.
Incidentally, him entering does put him in the defending his platform spot (unless he decides to go in another direction, which would seem a bit strange).
At this point, do the other candidates really have to do anything other than say: "Patrick Brown has entered the race to replace Patrick Brown as leader of the OPC."
? I don't understand. They're completely tearing the platform apart. Reversing minimum wage increase, reversing carbon tax plan, reversing sex education plan, reversing expansion of pharmacare to under 25s. There's literally not a platform remaining any more for the PCs, except a general, "Anything Wynne does, we're going to do the opposite!" theme.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Patrick Brown is the last, best hope for the Ontario PC.
Posts
Oh, ok, then it's ok to murder someone
The issue is that simple.
"He was a bad hombre" doesn't justify any of this shit.
So Mulroney is playing the "we hate politics" card, Elliott the "we hate the environment" card, Allen the "we hate education" card, and Ford the "I have no idea what I'm doing here" card.
Everybody knows monarchy is superior to technocracy.
None of these points justify the use of deadly force. There is no reason that man should have had a restricted firearm readily available to defend his property like he did and even ignoring that, there is no reason in this situation to use deadly force.
This man committed manslaughter based on the evidence that is readily available. He should not be walking free after what he did.
I did have a bit of a belly laugh at the good, old, "We'll just cut some government waste to pay for it" being trotted out again.
Also what in the living hell are the Ontario NDP doing. They're not even...present in the current conversation.
She's never done anything in politics before, so how is that weird? I'm not considered a career stay-at-home mom for being the son of one.
I think the outcome would have been identical if it was a car full of drunk white kids.
People are not very sympathetic to people that go looking for trouble and find it.
Ah, my use of "career" was too informal.
I just have difficulty believing anyone is a political outsider when their parent held the highest possible political office in the country.
Nah, there's plenty of chance of a similar outcome.
Like, let's not get ridiculous here. It is true that shooting Boushie was at best manslaughter (at least as I understand it) or whatever specific law covers negligent homicide and that Stanley getting off scot-free is a fucking travesty. It is also true that these guys were trespassing on Stanley's property almost certainly with the intent of stealing a vehicle. This is not a situation where a confrontation is unlikely no matter the race of anyone involved. Certainly not with Stanley seeming to be perfectly willing to bring a loaded gun into the situation.
Almost certainly less likely a bunch of white guys get shot but it's absolutely likely given Stanley getting a gun involved in the altercation.
I don't remember much of the Mulroney era, but I don't remember much talk about their kids. If she's never run for office before, or done any political activism, I don't see why simply having a father who was in politics automatically makes her an 'insider'. Besides the last time Mulroney was in politics was what, 30 years ago?
Ok, I see how you could see it that way.
I am certain though with what I have learned about the differences between de-escalation and escalation in these kinds of situations, if you fear for your life or the life of others around you, the situation often escalates.
And racists / bigots fear for their life around those they have a bias against WAY more.
The situation does not play out the same if its a bunch of people the same skin tone / culture as the cops or whoever, unfortunately. It is part of the reason I am so glad RCMP go through so much training and education to become one, there is some hope in that they learn to fear less in responding to stressful situations.
There is zero chance of this. Zero.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
We are not talking about the trial or jury selection. Because nothing I have seen or read has indicated that Stanley is a racist.
I might be wrong though so please share if you know something I don't.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/john-cameron-second-degree-murder-michelle-stobbe-1.4387343
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/matthew-valentine-murder-morphine-ralph-boehnlein-1.4408622
Happens all the time. You break into someone's home (or farm in this case) and juries have zero sympathy for you.
http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/following-not-guilty-verdict-in-colten-boushie-death-gerald-stanley-faces-firearm-charges-next-month
He does have a firearms charge.
Not finding him guilty of manslaughter absolutely is influenced by the races of the accused and the victim.
Oh for sure.
The trial (especially jury selection) had a whole slew of racial problems.
All I was saying is I don't see anything about the whole incident itself that is racist from what I've seen. Stanley grabbed his gun before he saw the faces of any of the people involved.
Right but did he point it at them before that?
That is one beautiful, amusing statement at the end there, yup. The OPC seem to really hate Patrick Brown.
Edit: Oh for...and now CBC is reporting that Brown was seen dropping papers off at their leadership building, with every indication that he'll be entering the leadership race to pick who would replace Brown as leader.
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I'm not defending my uncle. Quite frankly he's a cunt. He's boasted about this act, so I want to put about 50% of it into a /r/thathappened post. He never boasted about picking off some - well I'll let you fill in the expletive here - though, just that he shot at poachers.
But I think the only area where we can say with certainty that racism played a part here is in the application of the judicial system. Anything else is speculation based on personal bias or ideology.
I never finish anyth
Also, those two quick google articles aren't remotely the same situation and in the Michelle stobbe case, she isn't white so...
She's already going to start out with introductions and access to Canadian politicians, foreign heads of state, as well as donors that a normal "outsider" wouldn't have access to, as well as whatever additional favors that a former prime minister can grant.
Dear Lord what is going on
I don't know if I agree with him, but his column is the only real coverage/analysis of what the fuck's going on in that leadership race that I've seen so far. Everybody else so far seems to be fixated on Brown suing CTV, Fedelli kicking Brown out, Djikstra being tossed, riding nominations in revolt, candidates being reviewed, the police case...... okay, so there's a lot to cover. Still.
Currently DMing: None
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
? I don't understand. They're completely tearing the platform apart. Reversing minimum wage increase, reversing carbon tax plan, reversing sex education plan, reversing expansion of pharmacare to under 25s. There's literally not a platform remaining any more for the PCs, except a general, "Anything Wynne does, we're going to do the opposite!" theme.
I was more glibly commenting at the OPC leadership candidates contest.
Incidentally, him entering does put him in the defending his platform spot (unless he decides to go in another direction, which would seem a bit strange).
Currently DMing: None
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Patrick Brown is the last, best hope for the Ontario PC.