What’s wrong with Warriors? They’re cheap durable troops with a ton of options.
Haruspex suffers from being a 200pt melee unit with no way to get into melee. It blenders the hell out of chaff if it ever makes it there though!
Warriors are not durable is the problem.
They are weak enough that light arms fire wounds them, and because they have multiple wounds the random two damage weapons floating around destroys them.
As an example a DP can only ever kill 7 guants. Meanwhile a unit of warriors can take up to 14 damage from the same DP.
They sit on the horrible mid point between chaff and elite where they arnt good enough at either and get hosed by anything. The new damage system really works against them.
Plus anything you take them for you can do better. Three basic warriors with talons and devourers is 72 points. 10 termeguants with devourers is 80. That’s 9 shots vs 30 shots.
Ok but they have talons you say! Well 6 genestealers cost 72 points and have better weapons and are much much more likely to make it into combat.
This is all a shame because warrours are cool as shit but they just are not worth it.
This Nid conversation interests me as I've always wanted to build a nid army...
Despite my question earlier, the impression I've gotten from YouTube battle reports (Miniwargaming and TableTop Tactics) is that the Tyranids are in fact quite viable.
The reason I asked my question earlier is because one specific channel talks about the Tyranid codex getting powercreeped to death by the other, newer codeces, and they talk about it like it's objective fact. But those guys also seem a little douchey? So...
In previous editions, Tyranids have been... not great? Unless, apparently, you're running a specific build all the time.
From what I've seen, it currently looks like you've got core units that range from chaff (gaunts and gants) to awesome (genestealers), to superfluous (raveners, warriors, gargoyles). Elite units that provide synergy (both kinds of 'thropes) or are just really unpleasant for certain targets (Lictors, biovores, Carnifex types, and Broodlords). Then there's the big-big monsters, like Tyrants, Trygons and the four-legged guys whose names I can never remember, and most of them seem pretty effective. There are some monsters that just seem really, really fun to play with, while being very effective in certain situations, which is neat.
But, again, this is from watching batreps, and the people on those specific channels are pretty incredible at the game in general. Almost any army can be good when fielded by really good players.
My impression of the Tyranid codex is that it's basically the gold standard for what 8th edition Codexes should be like. Lots of fluffy yet still powerful options, no obvious single build that's the best, almost all units seem to be viable in their own way.
If the Dark Eldar is anywhere close to it in quality I'll be very happy.
I think Tyranids is a top tier army, but ITC missions are perfect for Eldar. Also, 2.5 hrs is difficult to get through with a proper TAC nid list that runs 150 bodies and uses all phases of the game. I'm a pretty fast player, and getting through 5 vs other fast players is not even close to guaranteed in 2.5 hrs.
Book missions and no time limit? Nids/AM/Orks are the best army in the game, imo.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
I've gotten the impression that most of the content in the codex books was developed side by side. People calling codex creep seems really silly to me. They're not paragons of balance but it's not like these books are separated by several editions or years of ideas
Warriors seem alright to me as excelling in a lot of areas for their pricepoint. Give them a deathspitter and swords for 27pts (and throw in the odd vanomcannon), and I feel like they're better than theyve ever been. At 3w, they're still durable in the sense that 3 wounds is that annoying band between neither 2damage or d3 damage weapons being 100% efficient against them (and flat 3 damage weapon are less common, and have better things to shoot at). Fart them out of a trygon and roll around midfield, shooting and charging whatever they can reach. Jormangander gives them 3+ armour most of the time, which goes a long way.
The only units I’d actually call bad in the tyranid book are the Maleceptor, the Toxicrene and the Haruspex. And that’s mostly because they’re big stompy monster versions of smaller units without any of the good parts of them. They’re giant 5th wheels.
If they could move faster, had better ranged options, or better synergies with other units they’d be a whole lot better. Honestly I think they were just kits some sculptor really wanted to make and demanded after years of space marines, but they couldn’t think of rules for his cool new bugs.
I find most of the books are really balanced against each other when you use book/chapter approved missions which is what I think most of the balancing and testing built around. Even a GK army can put up a lot of close games.
I adore playing my CSM codex. I haven't found a pure stinking in there outside of mutilators kind of. There are tiers like my maulerfiend isn't top tier but it does work. My Heldrake has a purpose, roasting primaris. Even have run some close combat chosen squads to good result, being EC helps this a shit ton.
Tson's Codex has me enthralled with options right now.
Hell I even considered the good old smurfs for a while.
I know people keep saying Orks are good but I haven't seen it yet when I have played them. They are very very one dimensional and it is a dimension my CSM armies are good at dealing with.
I know people keep saying Orks are good but I haven't seen it yet when I have played them. They are very very one dimensional and it is a dimension my CSM armies are good at dealing with.
My gut feeling is that Boyz are next on the list of "horde unit that 8th edition's rules have accidentally made way too cost efficient".
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
The last time I lost to Orks was when GW's Konor campaign was running and my army got surrounded by boyz in a way that didn't let me score any points for the mission
But a long time player in the area has shelved his guard to play orks for this league and I imagine he'll come up with something that will smoke me
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
How is any gunline army possibly difficult to play? You could be very successful ignoring literally every phase but the shooting phase, wherein you roll dice and the opponent picks up models.
When it can't hit the broad side of a barn and will be utterly crushed in the turn 2 (or 1) assault it faces. Tau just aren't competitive and no changes to BS/Markerlights is their death.
Also most games/tournaments, including my store, are moving towards lots of line of sight blocking terrain. So you're not always going to be able to shoot what you want or need.
And smite spam still wrecks Tau as I have seen nothing that gives them any psychic mitigation.
Edit: And I guess I don't want to be spamming riptides, which I will concede looks very viable.
Looking at some leaks, I feel like these cool anime close combat systems you can take on your Tau~ crisis suits are traps. People are gonna model their commanders with big glowing dual katanas and flowing robes and then charge them into melee, where they will promptly be punched to death by orks.
I've gotten the impression that most of the content in the codex books was developed side by side. People calling codex creep seems really silly to me. They're not paragons of balance but it's not like these books are separated by several editions or years of ideas
I don’t think this is true, considering that blue horrors have had multiple successive nerfs over different codexes, recent codexs already have the CA points changes in them and that newer codexs have toned down versions of problematic strategems. (Tide of traitors vs the guard version, strike from the shadows vs webway). I think the bulk of the work was probably done at the same time (it has to for the printing to work out) but there have been updates to the design of the newer ones for sure.
Also your all crazy Orks is one of the worst factions in the game at the moment.
Everything except boyz is massively overcosted, the number of -1 effects make any shooting pointless, the only viable list (shit loads of boyz) gets hosed hard by anything with volume of fire, chaff means they bounce off garbage on the first turn of combat, and they instant lose to poxwalkers. They also have no realistic way with dealing with armour.
Let’s give some examples. We’ve been talking about thousand sons and nids so let’s go with those. A unit of 30 Tzaangor with the right buffs (Shaman, Lord aura) kills an entire unit of boyz on average dice. A unit of sky fires nets 14, so your two units you brought (at least) kills a unit. So you just killed two units of boyz with nothing lost assuming you only brought one Tzaangor blob and the rest of your army hasn’t fired yet. With Nids you have exocrines, hive Guard, massed haunts, genestealers, hive tyrants with double slimmer maggots and anything with devourers all killing Orks in droves.
Even if Orks go first here’s what happens against a good list.
They run forward. Kill nothing relevant with shooting.
You shoot a bunch of Orks dead.
They charge Guard/cultists/whatever.
You kill another chunk of Orks. They now have nothing of any threat left, you win.
This Nid conversation interests me as I've always wanted to build a nid army...
I have an army
I have three boxes of termagants and I think a large bag with another group still on the spure
I have two Mawloc/trygons
This is known and found
I think I have another carnifex and some warriors as I remember an argument about me winning the army and then putting it away in my closet back in 2010
The argument was if I won it why don't I spent my time with it since I was happy to get it?
I said it needs stuff and I am busy with work {well this was a lie as I was busy with my father and work but I did not really tell people the last 2 years of his life were rough}
But I remember despuring them and thinking how do you magnetize this? as there is no room! and stuff happened and I lost interest in the game over this era
I don't have a Tyrant which is my goal at this time I remembered why I have a ton of termaguants as I was waiting to see when the Trevigon came out what did it look like?
I thought about getting some Gaunts to flesh out my force {I am not fond of genestealers}
It was the daunting problem of what to paint them as and some real life stuff turning sour that caused me to shelve them
Really there was a large pile of books and boxes that slimed out of my closet onto the bedroom itself over the years
It fell apart 3 weeks ago and I digging in it found a lot of stuff I did not know I had or forgot I got back then
There is still more to clean up and organize as it was a pile of books and boxes that needs to be cataloged for various reasons.
I had a thought though I really have not seen a Orc force that was not a lot of orcs
I mean I still like that ideal of a force but I want to see other ways to build an army from GW for their codex
Orks might be binary but they're a hell of a roadblock for a lot of armies currently. If you can't kill enough of what could easily be hundreds of Boyz before they get into close combat then you lose.
Orks might be binary but they're a hell of a roadblock for a lot of armies currently. If you can't kill enough of what could easily be hundreds of Boyz before they get into close combat then you lose.
Any TAC list can handle boyz no problem. They aren't that tough, they have terrible saves. And outside of the da' jump are not that fast. And they hit on a 5+ with shooting and no re-rolls. Orks just are bleh at the moment. I think they feel like the super heavy list. Not really great verse well planned lists but will smash folks who are new. Gatekeeper list is a good way to put it. But at the moment they are not that strong. Hell even in close combat I find them middling. Though the last game I played verse orks I had Kharn running around. Dude could cream a unit of orks a turn by himself.
The leaks are out for T'au. Makes sense, my local non-GW store usually gets and sells the Codexes early.
Stratagems and Warlord Traits.
Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite (1CP) – used before a battlesuit unit shoots, enemy units cannot claim cover saves from thatunit.
Fail-safe Detonator (1CP) – use when Battlesuit unit from your army is destroyed in fight phase, roll a dice for each unit within 3” and on a 4+ it suffers a mortal wound.
Automated Repair System (2CP) – Battlesuit or Vehicle regains D3 lost wounds.
Neuroweb System Jammer (2CP) – start of enemy shooting phase, pick an enemy unit within 18” of Battlesuit Commander; subtract 1 from hit rolls made fro that unit this phase.
Repulsor Impact Field (1CP) – after opponent successfully charges a Battlesuit unit, roll a dice fro each model in the enemy unit within 3” of your unit and 6s deal mortal wounds
Command and Control Node (1CP) – Commander cannot shoot but Battlesuit unit in your army within 6” can re-roll wounds.
EMP Grenade (1CP) – when throwing a photon grenade, only make a single hit roll and if it hits, deal D3 mortal wounds against an enemy vehicle.
Hunting Grounds (1CP) – Kroot Hound unit successfully completes charge, Kroot units within 12” can re-roll charges.
Uplinked Markerlight (1CP) – when a markerlight successfully hits, place D3+1 markerlight tokens instead of 1.
Branched Nova Charge (1CP) – Riptide can use two effects rather than one when NOVA charging.
Support Turret Replacement (1CP) – If a Turret has been destroyed for a Fire Warrior team, it can be replaced.
Point Defence Targeting Relay (1CP) – Vehicle can overwatch on 5s and 6s
Emergency Dispensation (1CP/3CP) – standard for relics.
Orbital Ion Beam (3CP) – Commander has not moved or Manta Striked in the preceding movement phase. Pick two points on the battlefield 2D6” apart and draw a line between them. Each unit suffers D3 mortal wounds on a 4+ (characters 5+).
Breach and Clear (1CP) – Breacher team re-rolls wounds against enemy units in cover.
Recon Sweep (1CP) – Pathfinder team can moved 2D6” in the shooting phase but cannot shoot or charge.
Wall of Mirrors (1CP) – seen it; too long to type
Stimulant Injector (1CP) – start of any turn, a battlesuit model with wounds characteristic of 10+ can use the top row of the models’ damage table regardless of wounds remaining (unles it dies)
Focused Fire (3CP) – T’au Sept Stratagem; +1 to wound against a unit that has already been wounded this term by a T’au Sept unit.
Strike and Fade (1CP) – Dal’yth Stratagem; unit can shoot and then move up to 6” as if it it were the movement phase sans Advancing.
Experimental Weaponry (1CP) – re-roll number of attacks for randomly generated shot weapons for a Bork’an unit.
Positional Relay (2CP) – start of movement phase, pick a recon drone and a unit of the same sept that has been setup in a manta hold and can setup within 6” of the recon drone.
Hot Blooded (2CP) – Vior’la stratagem; infantry unit can shoot twice this phase but must target the closest enemy unit each time.
Orbital Marker Distribution Uplink (2CP) – Sa’cea stratagem; pick an enemy unit visible to a character; that unit and all units within 6” gain a markerlight counter.
Drop zone Clear (2CP) – Farsight Stratagem; battle suit unit that was setup using a manta strike ability this turn and add 1 to hit rolls for that unit.
Warlord Traits
1 Precision of the Hunter – Re-roll wound rolls of 1 made for your warlord against enemy vehicles or monsters
2 Through Unity, Devastation – In each of your shooting phases, pick a unit that is visible to your warlord; Until the end of your phase each time you make a wound roll of 6+ against that unit made by a friendly Sept unit within 6″ of your warlord, the AP is improved by 1 (Aun’va)
3 A Ghost Walks Among Us – add 6″ when the Warlord Advances instead of rolling a die (Darkstrider)
4 Through Boldness, Victory – if your warlord is within 12″ of an enemy unit at the start of your shooting phase, you can re-roll failed hit rolls made for your Warlord until the end of the phase
5 – Exemplar of the Kauyon – Re-roll failed hit rolls for Warlord as long as they have not moved. (Shadowsun)
6 – Exemplar of the Mont’ka – Warlord can advance and shoot as though they had not advanced this turn.
T’au Strength of Belief – Roll a D6 for each Mortal Wound inflicted on Warlord; on a 5+ it is ignored (Longstrike)
Vior’la Academy Luminary – If your Warlord has Master of War, Volley Fire or Failure is not an Option ability, the range of that ability is increased to 9″ and you can an additional CP for being battle-forged (Aun’Shi)
Dal’yth Gunshop Diplomat – Kroot and Vespid gain for the Greater Good while within 12″ of your Warlord
Sa’cea Beacon of Honour – friendly Sa’cea unit within 6″ reduced the number of models that flee by 1
Bork’an Seeker of Perfection – For each hit roll of 6+ made for your warlord, add 1 to the wound roll for that attack
Farsight Hero of the Enclaves – heroic intervention for 6″ and re-roll hits in combat during Heroic intervention or charges (Farsight)
Signature Systems (no Kroot)
Puretide Engram Neurochop – once per battle you can re-roll a single hit, wound or damage roll made for the bearer or fiendly Sept unit within 6″. If army is battelforged, you gain a Command Point on a 6 every time your opponent or you use a stratagem.
Onager Guantlet (Commander only) – S10 AP-4 D6D; one attack only
Multi-sensory Discouragement Array – enemy units within 6″ subtract 1 from Leadership
Solid-Image Projection Unit (Ethereal with hover drone only) – once per phase, if declared as a charge target, the Ethereal can move up to 3″ before the charge is made
Seismic Destabiliser – start of each shooting phase, you may either pick an enemy Infantry unit claiming cover or a Building within 12″ of the bearer; the Building suffers D3 mortal wounds; the infantry squad = roll die per squad member and on a 6 they suffer a mortal wound
Supernova Launcher – replaced AFG for 18″ Assault D6, S6, AP-2 2D can shoot out of Los weapon
Vectored Manuvering Thrusters (T’au Battlesuit only) – model can move 6″ after shooting.
Thermoneutronic Projected (Vior’la Sept) – replaces flamer for 8″ Assault D6 S6 AP -1 2D automatically hits weapon
Dynamic Mirror Field (Dal’yth Sept) – -1 to hit bearer
Grav-Inhibitor Field (Sa’cea Sept) – subtract 2″ from charge distance if declared as a charge
Plasma Accelerator Rifle (Bork’an Sept) – replaces Plasma Rifle with 30″ RF1 S7 AP-3 2D
Fusion Blades (Fasright Enclaves) – replaces two fusion blasters to provide 2 S8 AP-4 D6D combat attacks.
Bizazedo on
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I see some good stuff in there and some meh. I think the Tau index is really going to come down to points.
If a kroot screen is as cheap as cultist/guard or other chaff with the 36" ranged firewarriors backing them up I think there is a decent army in there. May not be the army people wanted but I think it will be viable.
4+ to hit isn't the end of the world. And if firewarriors dropped in price too then you will have a good base of shooting. Really that 6" range increase is really good.
I see some good stuff in there and some meh. I think the Tau index is really going to come down to points.
Here you go. I dunno T'au enough to know if it's good or not.
Points:
Fireblade 39 (no change)
Commander in XV8 72 (4 point discount)
Commander in XV85 76 (same as old cost)
Commander in XV86 Coldstar 90 (no change)
Ethereal 45 (no change) Hove Drone +5 (no change)
Longstrike 137 (no change)
Breacher / Strike Team 7 (1 point discount)
DS8 Tactical Support Turret 0 (20 point discount)
Kroot 5 (1 point discount)
Crisis Suits 42 (no change)
Bodyguards 45 (no change)
Firesight Marksman 21 (no change)
Ghostkeel 82 (no change)
Krootox 34 (no change)
Kroot Shaper 31 (no change)
Riptide 185 (24 point discount)
Stealth Suits 20 (no change)
Kroot Hounds 4 (no change)
Pathfinders 5 (no change)
TX4 Piranhas 38 (7 point discount)
Vespid 14 (1 point discount)
Broadside 60 (20 point discount)
Hammerhead 100 (17 point discount)
Skyray 100 (19 point discount)
Razorshark 72 (10 point discount)
Sun Shark bomber 90 (10 point discount)
Tidewalls 70 (no change)
Stormsurge 180 (no change)
Aun’Shi 60 (8 point discount)
An’va 85 (20 point increase)
Farsight 151 (no change)
Shadowsun 167 (no change)
Darkstrider 45 (no change)
ATS – 18 points on Ghostkeel, Riptide and Stormsurge (+10 points) (still adds 1 to AP bonus)
ATS – 12 points for everything else (+4 points)
Counter Fire Defense System – 10 points (+5 points) (re-roll failed hit rolls on overwatch)
Iridium Battlesuit – 15 points (2+ save)
Drone Controller – 5 points (rules the same)
EWO – 10 pts for GK, Riptide and SS (+2 points) (shooting at enemy unit setup within 12 of model at -1 to hit)
EWO – 5 points for all others (-3 points)
Homing Beacon – 20 points (no change)
Multi-tracker – 10 points (+8 points) (re-roll 1s to hit if targeting unit with 5+ models and all its weapons shoot at it)
Shield Generator – 40 points for SS (no change) (4++)
Shield Generator – 8 points for all others (no change)
Target Lock – 12 points for GK, Riptide and SS (no change) (rules the same)
Target Lock – 6 points all others (no change)
Velocity Tracker – 10 points for GK, Riptide, SS (no change) (rules the same)
Velocity Tracker – 2 points for all others (no change)
AFG – 8 points (2 point discount)
Burst Cannon – 8 points (2 point discount)
Cluster Rocket System – 25 points (36 point discount!!!)
CIB – 18 points (same)
Cyclic Ion raker – 39 points (same)
Destroyer Missile – 10 points (same)
Flamer – 9 points (same)
Fusion Blaster – 21 points 9same)
Fusion collider – 35 points (9 point discount)
heavy Burst cannon – 35 points (20 point discount)
heavy Rail Rilfe – 35 points (28 point discount)
High output Burst Cannon – 20 points (same)
High Yield Missile Pod – 25 points (17 point discount)
Ion Accelerator – 65 points (42 point discount)
Ion cannon – 35 points (20 point discount)
Ion rfile – 7 points (same)
No changes for Kroot weapons, Longshot Pulse Rifle, Markerlight, Missile Pod, Plasma Rilfe, Pulse weapons or Quad Ion Turret however, Pulse Pistol now costs 1 point
Rail Rifle – 17 points (5 point discount)
Railgun – 38 points (no change)
Seeker missile – 5 points (no change)
SMS – 15 points (5 point discount)
Supremecy Railgun – 50 points (19 point discount)
[/quote]
XBL: Bizazedo
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Look at that and some guess, I haven't even seen Tau this edition, is it isn't bad. I see a lot of discounts. A 10 man firewarrior team with rail rifles and a turret is 80 points. That is pretty decent for some long range guard with better guns. Kroot at 5 points a model means you can put a big wall around your army for cheap.
I think Tau will be a decent mid level codex but I don't know their points verse play style well enough to guarantee that. But I see a lot of potential.
Look at that and some guess, I haven't even seen Tau this edition, is it isn't bad. I see a lot of discounts. A 10 man firewarrior team with rail rifles and a turret is 80 points. That is pretty decent for some long range guard with better guns. Kroot at 5 points a model means you can put a big wall around your army for cheap.
I think Tau will be a decent mid level codex but I don't know their points verse play style well enough to guarantee that. But I see a lot of potential.
I agree, you’ll see lists now that are 80 firewarriors + turrets and 40 kroot as your base line. That’s 1000 points for 120 guys, and 1000 points left to drop on HQs and toys, and it’s alot of str 5 shooting. It’s not top tier but it’s perfectly fine.
Kroot being 5 points a pop is pretty good. Your paying a single point more for a cultist with str 4 attacks/shots and a 7” move before the game starts. Not shabby.
I think a suits army could work as Farsight Enclaves, a big, tooled out Crisis team hits on 3's with the strategem, 2's with markerlight support. Probably burst cannon spam on the crisis suits to clear out all the trash units and then the 4x FB Commander they're hiding can go around blowing up tanks and monstrous creatures.
Does anyone know if the rumor about the Coldstar suit being able to take any weapon loadout proved true?
Edit: Nevermind, they answer that question in today's Warhammer Community article! He can, and they even suggest the loadout everyone loves, 4x FB, for the guy who can fly 40 inches across the board, lol.
I think a suits army could work as Farsight Enclaves, a big, tooled out Crisis team hits on 3's with the strategem, 2's with markerlight support. Probably burst cannon spam on the crisis suits to clear out all the trash units and then the 4x FB Commander they're hiding can go around blowing up tanks and monstrous creatures.
Does anyone know if the rumor about the Coldstar suit being able to take any weapon loadout proved true?
I think a suits army could work as Farsight Enclaves, a big, tooled out Crisis team hits on 3's with the strategem, 2's with markerlight support. Probably burst cannon spam on the crisis suits to clear out all the trash units and then the 4x FB Commander they're hiding can go around blowing up tanks and monstrous creatures.
Does anyone know if the rumor about the Coldstar suit being able to take any weapon loadout proved true?
valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
So today I was able to purchase the Primaris half of a DM box from someone. I think that almost puts me at having all the Primaris marines i would need for the updated company organization chart.
I love this tank but the kit is so weird. It has incredibly detailed tracks showing all the engines and gears and you just what a big old armour plate on it.
I love this tank but the kit is so weird. It has incredibly detailed tracks showing all the engines and gears and you just what a big old armour plate on it.
Have to imagine it makes it easier to modify and customize when you've got all the detail under the armor slabs already.
I love this tank but the kit is so weird. It has incredibly detailed tracks showing all the engines and gears and you just what a big old armour plate on it.
Sounds like a good reason to have some rust holes or missing pieces to expose rusted bits underneath.
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Haruspex suffers from being a 200pt melee unit with no way to get into melee. It blenders the hell out of chaff if it ever makes it there though!
...I love Tyranid warriors, tho
I'm just not going to give up on them.
Decent shooting, fabulous melee, can keep the little guys in line. Yes pls
However, I'm aware that I'm going to have to invest in some of the fancier stuff soon.
Weak or great? Or mediocre? Burning questions.
PSN: Bizazedo
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PSN - Razide6
Good theme, currently weak due to cost, shooting, speed, and other factors which probably can be fixed in the codex.
Warriors are not durable is the problem.
They are weak enough that light arms fire wounds them, and because they have multiple wounds the random two damage weapons floating around destroys them.
As an example a DP can only ever kill 7 guants. Meanwhile a unit of warriors can take up to 14 damage from the same DP.
They sit on the horrible mid point between chaff and elite where they arnt good enough at either and get hosed by anything. The new damage system really works against them.
Plus anything you take them for you can do better. Three basic warriors with talons and devourers is 72 points. 10 termeguants with devourers is 80. That’s 9 shots vs 30 shots.
Ok but they have talons you say! Well 6 genestealers cost 72 points and have better weapons and are much much more likely to make it into combat.
This is all a shame because warrours are cool as shit but they just are not worth it.
Despite my question earlier, the impression I've gotten from YouTube battle reports (Miniwargaming and TableTop Tactics) is that the Tyranids are in fact quite viable.
The reason I asked my question earlier is because one specific channel talks about the Tyranid codex getting powercreeped to death by the other, newer codeces, and they talk about it like it's objective fact. But those guys also seem a little douchey? So...
In previous editions, Tyranids have been... not great? Unless, apparently, you're running a specific build all the time.
From what I've seen, it currently looks like you've got core units that range from chaff (gaunts and gants) to awesome (genestealers), to superfluous (raveners, warriors, gargoyles). Elite units that provide synergy (both kinds of 'thropes) or are just really unpleasant for certain targets (Lictors, biovores, Carnifex types, and Broodlords). Then there's the big-big monsters, like Tyrants, Trygons and the four-legged guys whose names I can never remember, and most of them seem pretty effective. There are some monsters that just seem really, really fun to play with, while being very effective in certain situations, which is neat.
But, again, this is from watching batreps, and the people on those specific channels are pretty incredible at the game in general. Almost any army can be good when fielded by really good players.
If the Dark Eldar is anywhere close to it in quality I'll be very happy.
Book missions and no time limit? Nids/AM/Orks are the best army in the game, imo.
If they could move faster, had better ranged options, or better synergies with other units they’d be a whole lot better. Honestly I think they were just kits some sculptor really wanted to make and demanded after years of space marines, but they couldn’t think of rules for his cool new bugs.
I adore playing my CSM codex. I haven't found a pure stinking in there outside of mutilators kind of. There are tiers like my maulerfiend isn't top tier but it does work. My Heldrake has a purpose, roasting primaris. Even have run some close combat chosen squads to good result, being EC helps this a shit ton.
Tson's Codex has me enthralled with options right now.
Hell I even considered the good old smurfs for a while.
I know people keep saying Orks are good but I haven't seen it yet when I have played them. They are very very one dimensional and it is a dimension my CSM armies are good at dealing with.
My gut feeling is that Boyz are next on the list of "horde unit that 8th edition's rules have accidentally made way too cost efficient".
But a long time player in the area has shelved his guard to play orks for this league and I imagine he'll come up with something that will smoke me
When it can't hit the broad side of a barn and will be utterly crushed in the turn 2 (or 1) assault it faces. Tau just aren't competitive and no changes to BS/Markerlights is their death.
Also most games/tournaments, including my store, are moving towards lots of line of sight blocking terrain. So you're not always going to be able to shoot what you want or need.
And smite spam still wrecks Tau as I have seen nothing that gives them any psychic mitigation.
Edit: And I guess I don't want to be spamming riptides, which I will concede looks very viable.
I don’t think this is true, considering that blue horrors have had multiple successive nerfs over different codexes, recent codexs already have the CA points changes in them and that newer codexs have toned down versions of problematic strategems. (Tide of traitors vs the guard version, strike from the shadows vs webway). I think the bulk of the work was probably done at the same time (it has to for the printing to work out) but there have been updates to the design of the newer ones for sure.
Also your all crazy Orks is one of the worst factions in the game at the moment.
Everything except boyz is massively overcosted, the number of -1 effects make any shooting pointless, the only viable list (shit loads of boyz) gets hosed hard by anything with volume of fire, chaff means they bounce off garbage on the first turn of combat, and they instant lose to poxwalkers. They also have no realistic way with dealing with armour.
Let’s give some examples. We’ve been talking about thousand sons and nids so let’s go with those. A unit of 30 Tzaangor with the right buffs (Shaman, Lord aura) kills an entire unit of boyz on average dice. A unit of sky fires nets 14, so your two units you brought (at least) kills a unit. So you just killed two units of boyz with nothing lost assuming you only brought one Tzaangor blob and the rest of your army hasn’t fired yet. With Nids you have exocrines, hive Guard, massed haunts, genestealers, hive tyrants with double slimmer maggots and anything with devourers all killing Orks in droves.
Even if Orks go first here’s what happens against a good list.
They run forward. Kill nothing relevant with shooting.
You shoot a bunch of Orks dead.
They charge Guard/cultists/whatever.
You kill another chunk of Orks. They now have nothing of any threat left, you win.
I have an army
I have three boxes of termagants and I think a large bag with another group still on the spure
I have two Mawloc/trygons
This is known and found
I think I have another carnifex and some warriors as I remember an argument about me winning the army and then putting it away in my closet back in 2010
The argument was if I won it why don't I spent my time with it since I was happy to get it?
I said it needs stuff and I am busy with work {well this was a lie as I was busy with my father and work but I did not really tell people the last 2 years of his life were rough}
But I remember despuring them and thinking how do you magnetize this? as there is no room! and stuff happened and I lost interest in the game over this era
I don't have a Tyrant which is my goal at this time I remembered why I have a ton of termaguants as I was waiting to see when the Trevigon came out what did it look like?
I thought about getting some Gaunts to flesh out my force {I am not fond of genestealers}
It was the daunting problem of what to paint them as and some real life stuff turning sour that caused me to shelve them
Really there was a large pile of books and boxes that slimed out of my closet onto the bedroom itself over the years
It fell apart 3 weeks ago and I digging in it found a lot of stuff I did not know I had or forgot I got back then
There is still more to clean up and organize as it was a pile of books and boxes that needs to be cataloged for various reasons.
I mean I still like that ideal of a force but I want to see other ways to build an army from GW for their codex
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Any TAC list can handle boyz no problem. They aren't that tough, they have terrible saves. And outside of the da' jump are not that fast. And they hit on a 5+ with shooting and no re-rolls. Orks just are bleh at the moment. I think they feel like the super heavy list. Not really great verse well planned lists but will smash folks who are new. Gatekeeper list is a good way to put it. But at the moment they are not that strong. Hell even in close combat I find them middling. Though the last game I played verse orks I had Kharn running around. Dude could cream a unit of orks a turn by himself.
Stratagems and Warlord Traits.
Fail-safe Detonator (1CP) – use when Battlesuit unit from your army is destroyed in fight phase, roll a dice for each unit within 3” and on a 4+ it suffers a mortal wound.
Automated Repair System (2CP) – Battlesuit or Vehicle regains D3 lost wounds.
Neuroweb System Jammer (2CP) – start of enemy shooting phase, pick an enemy unit within 18” of Battlesuit Commander; subtract 1 from hit rolls made fro that unit this phase.
Repulsor Impact Field (1CP) – after opponent successfully charges a Battlesuit unit, roll a dice fro each model in the enemy unit within 3” of your unit and 6s deal mortal wounds
Command and Control Node (1CP) – Commander cannot shoot but Battlesuit unit in your army within 6” can re-roll wounds.
EMP Grenade (1CP) – when throwing a photon grenade, only make a single hit roll and if it hits, deal D3 mortal wounds against an enemy vehicle.
Hunting Grounds (1CP) – Kroot Hound unit successfully completes charge, Kroot units within 12” can re-roll charges.
Uplinked Markerlight (1CP) – when a markerlight successfully hits, place D3+1 markerlight tokens instead of 1.
Branched Nova Charge (1CP) – Riptide can use two effects rather than one when NOVA charging.
Support Turret Replacement (1CP) – If a Turret has been destroyed for a Fire Warrior team, it can be replaced.
Point Defence Targeting Relay (1CP) – Vehicle can overwatch on 5s and 6s
Emergency Dispensation (1CP/3CP) – standard for relics.
Orbital Ion Beam (3CP) – Commander has not moved or Manta Striked in the preceding movement phase. Pick two points on the battlefield 2D6” apart and draw a line between them. Each unit suffers D3 mortal wounds on a 4+ (characters 5+).
Breach and Clear (1CP) – Breacher team re-rolls wounds against enemy units in cover.
Recon Sweep (1CP) – Pathfinder team can moved 2D6” in the shooting phase but cannot shoot or charge.
Wall of Mirrors (1CP) – seen it; too long to type
Stimulant Injector (1CP) – start of any turn, a battlesuit model with wounds characteristic of 10+ can use the top row of the models’ damage table regardless of wounds remaining (unles it dies)
Focused Fire (3CP) – T’au Sept Stratagem; +1 to wound against a unit that has already been wounded this term by a T’au Sept unit.
Strike and Fade (1CP) – Dal’yth Stratagem; unit can shoot and then move up to 6” as if it it were the movement phase sans Advancing.
Experimental Weaponry (1CP) – re-roll number of attacks for randomly generated shot weapons for a Bork’an unit.
Positional Relay (2CP) – start of movement phase, pick a recon drone and a unit of the same sept that has been setup in a manta hold and can setup within 6” of the recon drone.
Hot Blooded (2CP) – Vior’la stratagem; infantry unit can shoot twice this phase but must target the closest enemy unit each time.
Orbital Marker Distribution Uplink (2CP) – Sa’cea stratagem; pick an enemy unit visible to a character; that unit and all units within 6” gain a markerlight counter.
Drop zone Clear (2CP) – Farsight Stratagem; battle suit unit that was setup using a manta strike ability this turn and add 1 to hit rolls for that unit.
Warlord Traits
1 Precision of the Hunter – Re-roll wound rolls of 1 made for your warlord against enemy vehicles or monsters
2 Through Unity, Devastation – In each of your shooting phases, pick a unit that is visible to your warlord; Until the end of your phase each time you make a wound roll of 6+ against that unit made by a friendly Sept unit within 6″ of your warlord, the AP is improved by 1 (Aun’va)
3 A Ghost Walks Among Us – add 6″ when the Warlord Advances instead of rolling a die (Darkstrider)
4 Through Boldness, Victory – if your warlord is within 12″ of an enemy unit at the start of your shooting phase, you can re-roll failed hit rolls made for your Warlord until the end of the phase
5 – Exemplar of the Kauyon – Re-roll failed hit rolls for Warlord as long as they have not moved. (Shadowsun)
6 – Exemplar of the Mont’ka – Warlord can advance and shoot as though they had not advanced this turn.
T’au Strength of Belief – Roll a D6 for each Mortal Wound inflicted on Warlord; on a 5+ it is ignored (Longstrike)
Vior’la Academy Luminary – If your Warlord has Master of War, Volley Fire or Failure is not an Option ability, the range of that ability is increased to 9″ and you can an additional CP for being battle-forged (Aun’Shi)
Dal’yth Gunshop Diplomat – Kroot and Vespid gain for the Greater Good while within 12″ of your Warlord
Sa’cea Beacon of Honour – friendly Sa’cea unit within 6″ reduced the number of models that flee by 1
Bork’an Seeker of Perfection – For each hit roll of 6+ made for your warlord, add 1 to the wound roll for that attack
Farsight Hero of the Enclaves – heroic intervention for 6″ and re-roll hits in combat during Heroic intervention or charges (Farsight)
Signature Systems (no Kroot)
Puretide Engram Neurochop – once per battle you can re-roll a single hit, wound or damage roll made for the bearer or fiendly Sept unit within 6″. If army is battelforged, you gain a Command Point on a 6 every time your opponent or you use a stratagem.
Onager Guantlet (Commander only) – S10 AP-4 D6D; one attack only
Multi-sensory Discouragement Array – enemy units within 6″ subtract 1 from Leadership
Solid-Image Projection Unit (Ethereal with hover drone only) – once per phase, if declared as a charge target, the Ethereal can move up to 3″ before the charge is made
Seismic Destabiliser – start of each shooting phase, you may either pick an enemy Infantry unit claiming cover or a Building within 12″ of the bearer; the Building suffers D3 mortal wounds; the infantry squad = roll die per squad member and on a 6 they suffer a mortal wound
Supernova Launcher – replaced AFG for 18″ Assault D6, S6, AP-2 2D can shoot out of Los weapon
Vectored Manuvering Thrusters (T’au Battlesuit only) – model can move 6″ after shooting.
Thermoneutronic Projected (Vior’la Sept) – replaces flamer for 8″ Assault D6 S6 AP -1 2D automatically hits weapon
Dynamic Mirror Field (Dal’yth Sept) – -1 to hit bearer
Grav-Inhibitor Field (Sa’cea Sept) – subtract 2″ from charge distance if declared as a charge
Plasma Accelerator Rifle (Bork’an Sept) – replaces Plasma Rifle with 30″ RF1 S7 AP-3 2D
Fusion Blades (Fasright Enclaves) – replaces two fusion blasters to provide 2 S8 AP-4 D6D combat attacks.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
If a kroot screen is as cheap as cultist/guard or other chaff with the 36" ranged firewarriors backing them up I think there is a decent army in there. May not be the army people wanted but I think it will be viable.
4+ to hit isn't the end of the world. And if firewarriors dropped in price too then you will have a good base of shooting. Really that 6" range increase is really good.
Here you go. I dunno T'au enough to know if it's good or not.
Fireblade 39 (no change)
Commander in XV8 72 (4 point discount)
Commander in XV85 76 (same as old cost)
Commander in XV86 Coldstar 90 (no change)
Ethereal 45 (no change) Hove Drone +5 (no change)
Longstrike 137 (no change)
Breacher / Strike Team 7 (1 point discount)
DS8 Tactical Support Turret 0 (20 point discount)
Kroot 5 (1 point discount)
Crisis Suits 42 (no change)
Bodyguards 45 (no change)
Firesight Marksman 21 (no change)
Ghostkeel 82 (no change)
Krootox 34 (no change)
Kroot Shaper 31 (no change)
Riptide 185 (24 point discount)
Stealth Suits 20 (no change)
Kroot Hounds 4 (no change)
Pathfinders 5 (no change)
TX4 Piranhas 38 (7 point discount)
Vespid 14 (1 point discount)
Broadside 60 (20 point discount)
Hammerhead 100 (17 point discount)
Skyray 100 (19 point discount)
Razorshark 72 (10 point discount)
Sun Shark bomber 90 (10 point discount)
Tidewalls 70 (no change)
Stormsurge 180 (no change)
Aun’Shi 60 (8 point discount)
An’va 85 (20 point increase)
Farsight 151 (no change)
Shadowsun 167 (no change)
Darkstrider 45 (no change)
ATS – 18 points on Ghostkeel, Riptide and Stormsurge (+10 points) (still adds 1 to AP bonus)
ATS – 12 points for everything else (+4 points)
Counter Fire Defense System – 10 points (+5 points) (re-roll failed hit rolls on overwatch)
Iridium Battlesuit – 15 points (2+ save)
Drone Controller – 5 points (rules the same)
EWO – 10 pts for GK, Riptide and SS (+2 points) (shooting at enemy unit setup within 12 of model at -1 to hit)
EWO – 5 points for all others (-3 points)
Homing Beacon – 20 points (no change)
Multi-tracker – 10 points (+8 points) (re-roll 1s to hit if targeting unit with 5+ models and all its weapons shoot at it)
Shield Generator – 40 points for SS (no change) (4++)
Shield Generator – 8 points for all others (no change)
Target Lock – 12 points for GK, Riptide and SS (no change) (rules the same)
Target Lock – 6 points all others (no change)
Velocity Tracker – 10 points for GK, Riptide, SS (no change) (rules the same)
Velocity Tracker – 2 points for all others (no change)
AFG – 8 points (2 point discount)
Burst Cannon – 8 points (2 point discount)
Cluster Rocket System – 25 points (36 point discount!!!)
CIB – 18 points (same)
Cyclic Ion raker – 39 points (same)
Destroyer Missile – 10 points (same)
Flamer – 9 points (same)
Fusion Blaster – 21 points 9same)
Fusion collider – 35 points (9 point discount)
heavy Burst cannon – 35 points (20 point discount)
heavy Rail Rilfe – 35 points (28 point discount)
High output Burst Cannon – 20 points (same)
High Yield Missile Pod – 25 points (17 point discount)
Ion Accelerator – 65 points (42 point discount)
Ion cannon – 35 points (20 point discount)
Ion rfile – 7 points (same)
No changes for Kroot weapons, Longshot Pulse Rifle, Markerlight, Missile Pod, Plasma Rilfe, Pulse weapons or Quad Ion Turret however, Pulse Pistol now costs 1 point
Rail Rifle – 17 points (5 point discount)
Railgun – 38 points (no change)
Seeker missile – 5 points (no change)
SMS – 15 points (5 point discount)
Supremecy Railgun – 50 points (19 point discount)
[/quote]
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I think Tau will be a decent mid level codex but I don't know their points verse play style well enough to guarantee that. But I see a lot of potential.
I agree, you’ll see lists now that are 80 firewarriors + turrets and 40 kroot as your base line. That’s 1000 points for 120 guys, and 1000 points left to drop on HQs and toys, and it’s alot of str 5 shooting. It’s not top tier but it’s perfectly fine.
Kroot being 5 points a pop is pretty good. Your paying a single point more for a cultist with str 4 attacks/shots and a 7” move before the game starts. Not shabby.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
...guess I know what I'm doing today.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Does anyone know if the rumor about the Coldstar suit being able to take any weapon loadout proved true?
Edit: Nevermind, they answer that question in today's Warhammer Community article! He can, and they even suggest the loadout everyone loves, 4x FB, for the guy who can fly 40 inches across the board, lol.
Yes to the Coldstar
https://warhammer-community.com/2018/03/09/tau-empire-preview-viorla-septgw-homepage-post-3/
Make up your mind GW! Either give characters exchangable equipment even if it isn't on the sprue or not!
They do actually have all the guns on the sprue, as it's the same as a Tau commander in enforcer armour.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
I love this tank but the kit is so weird. It has incredibly detailed tracks showing all the engines and gears and you just what a big old armour plate on it.
Have to imagine it makes it easier to modify and customize when you've got all the detail under the armor slabs already.
Sounds like a good reason to have some rust holes or missing pieces to expose rusted bits underneath.