I feel like it's safe to assume that people having lots of sex are going to overestimate how much sex is going on in the broader population around them
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
As a nerdy high school virgin who had nerdy high-school-virgin friends,
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
come to think of it, even if a teenager can't understand exactly what it feels like to be married to someone for decades and suspect they are cheating on you
it's probably useful to teach people to empathize with situations they can't completely relate to
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Shakespeare should be taught because we have a staggeringly rich cultural history and it ought not be discarded because of the ever-present desire to do something "modern" and "relevant". People have been saying that since the 1700s.
For me it’s not about relevance. It’s that I find it pedagogically wasteful that I was reading texts that I could not understand—in the most literal sense, I could not parse then—at ages where even if I were to understand them, I would have no comprehension of the themes of sex, death, and politics. Hard to see that as not being a pedagogical waste.
High school is arguable. Junior high: what. I’m not a person with generally low language skills and was an avid reader. Eh, w/e.
I don't believe it's impossible, or even very hard, for a 15yr old to connect with themes of sex, death, and politics. It's not taught that way! R&J should be upsettingly relatable for a HS sophomore. It's YA lit! Two idiot kids kill themselves over their ridiculous first love while their parents and family try to keep them apart. This is a relatable story!
Othello is relatable as fk! Jealousy destroys everything, just like in your own life!
The problem is with substandard teaching, not with Shakespeare.
Yes, sexual jealousy and race politics, my primary areas of lived experience at 12
Not to mention clever puns on the 1521 convention of the Holy Roman Empire addressing Martin Luther, aka the “Diet of Worms” (like... worms eating stuff... lol Shakespeare this wit!). DEFINITELY translates to the middle school experience.
Ok, he said 15 though, and boy howdy sexual jealousy and race politics at 15? yea. yea, we had some of those.
Most Americans are virgins for most of high school and most high schools are extremely racially segregated
Is this still true? How do we actually know that?
People who I've known that were in High School just a few years ago were fucking everyone and said everyone was fucking. Because like high school parties are p gross and every fucks at random parties.
Systematic surveys. The first two sources I found on google both listed the median age for Americans as 17.
There's a strong incentive to lie or misrepresent about sexual activity (for males anyways) at that age.
You can always ask later, though.
In any case yes, but I think study authors are usually aware of that.
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y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
Video game forums is where I collect my most accurate data on teenage sex
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
Shakespeare should be taught because we have a staggeringly rich cultural history and it ought not be discarded because of the ever-present desire to do something "modern" and "relevant". People have been saying that since the 1700s.
For me it’s not about relevance. It’s that I find it pedagogically wasteful that I was reading texts that I could not understand—in the most literal sense, I could not parse then—at ages where even if I were to understand them, I would have no comprehension of the themes of sex, death, and politics. Hard to see that as not being a pedagogical waste.
High school is arguable. Junior high: what. I’m not a person with generally low language skills and was an avid reader. Eh, w/e.
I don't believe it's impossible, or even very hard, for a 15yr old to connect with themes of sex, death, and politics. It's not taught that way! R&J should be upsettingly relatable for a HS sophomore. It's YA lit! Two idiot kids kill themselves over their ridiculous first love while their parents and family try to keep them apart. This is a relatable story!
Othello is relatable as fk! Jealousy destroys everything, just like in your own life!
The problem is with substandard teaching, not with Shakespeare.
Yes, sexual jealousy and race politics, my primary areas of lived experience at 12
Not to mention clever puns on the 1521 convention of the Holy Roman Empire addressing Martin Luther, aka the “Diet of Worms” (like... worms eating stuff... lol Shakespeare this wit!). DEFINITELY translates to the middle school experience.
Ok, he said 15 though, and boy howdy sexual jealousy and race politics at 15? yea. yea, we had some of those.
Most Americans are virgins for most of high school and most high schools are extremely racially segregated
Is this still true? How do we actually know that?
People who I've known that were in High School just a few years ago were fucking everyone and said everyone was fucking. Because like high school parties are p gross and every fucks at random parties.
Systematic surveys. The first two sources I found on google both listed the median age for Americans as 17.
There's a strong incentive to lie or misrepresent about sexual activity (for males anyways) at that age.
You can always ask later, though.
In any case yes, but I think study authors are usually aware of that.
Right. My point was more in relation the first and second hand anecdotal evidence you guys were responding to.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
come to think of it, even if a teenager can't understand exactly what it feels like to be married to someone for decades and suspect they are cheating on you
it's probably useful to teach people to empathize with situations they can't completely relate to
Also in general I think having teenagers read fiction they can't necessarily relate to with shared experience is fine, because a) as someone pointed out, teenagers are dumb and can't relate to anything, and also b) a lot of teenagers love to get lost in a world where they can forget that they are a teenager for a little while
I mean like my little brother who is in college right now.
But he was fucking everyone. Everyone was fucking at every party imaginable.
He had sex with way more people during high school alone then I did in my whole life.
And all my younger friends confirm the same things at their schools. I know it's just examples but that's basically all I ever hear.
Why y'all spend so much time talking about highschoolers fuckin'
Because he's my brother who was still my brother when he was in high school. So he would discuss his life with me, his older brother. Why would that be weird? It's much better for a young person to be able to talk about that stuff with someone than not.
would ophelia and hamlet fuck like in the terrible kenneth branagh hamlet
I've thought about this and I don't think so
She's achingly desperate for cock from both Hamlet and her brother, but... her brother doesn't want to take the incest thing too far, and, while Hamlet does have a genuine obsession with Ophelia, it is mostly an asexual one. Hamlet only wants to bang Horatio, and of course his mother
I feel like it's safe to assume that people having lots of sex are going to overestimate how much sex is going on in the broader population around them
People jealous of the sex havers are also going to overestimate.
People: Mathematics is so useful.
Mathematician: I am still chasing the high I got from learning Euclid’s proof of the existence of an infinity of prime numbers. That is why I became a mathematician.
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BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
I mean like my little brother who is in college right now.
But he was fucking everyone. Everyone was fucking at every party imaginable.
He had sex with way more people during high school alone then I did in my whole life.
And all my younger friends confirm the same things at their schools. I know it's just examples but that's basically all I ever hear.
Why y'all spend so much time talking about highschoolers fuckin'
Because he's my brother who was still my brother when he was in high school. So he would discuss his life with me, his older brother. Why would that be weird? It's much better for a young person to be able to talk about that stuff with someone than not.
No, no
It's the second part of the post that had me concerned, Stacey :P
"It's basically all I ever hear" makes it sound like you are constantly inundated with tales of teenagers banging!
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
Shakespeare should be taught because we have a staggeringly rich cultural history and it ought not be discarded because of the ever-present desire to do something "modern" and "relevant". People have been saying that since the 1700s.
For me it’s not about relevance. It’s that I find it pedagogically wasteful that I was reading texts that I could not understand—in the most literal sense, I could not parse then—at ages where even if I were to understand them, I would have no comprehension of the themes of sex, death, and politics. Hard to see that as not being a pedagogical waste.
High school is arguable. Junior high: what. I’m not a person with generally low language skills and was an avid reader. Eh, w/e.
I don't believe it's impossible, or even very hard, for a 15yr old to connect with themes of sex, death, and politics. It's not taught that way! R&J should be upsettingly relatable for a HS sophomore. It's YA lit! Two idiot kids kill themselves over their ridiculous first love while their parents and family try to keep them apart. This is a relatable story!
Othello is relatable as fk! Jealousy destroys everything, just like in your own life!
The problem is with substandard teaching, not with Shakespeare.
Yes, sexual jealousy and race politics, my primary areas of lived experience at 12
Not to mention clever puns on the 1521 convention of the Holy Roman Empire addressing Martin Luther, aka the “Diet of Worms” (like... worms eating stuff... lol Shakespeare this wit!). DEFINITELY translates to the middle school experience.
Ok, he said 15 though, and boy howdy sexual jealousy and race politics at 15? yea. yea, we had some of those.
Most Americans are virgins for most of high school and most high schools are extremely racially segregated
Being a virgin most definitely does not exclude someone from sexual jealousy.
Yeah, sure, I really wanted to fuck because I was horny all the time and pop culture assured me that sex was great
In what sense does that experience at bear on the rotten feeling of a married man who lets rumors of infidelity progressively poison his mind
These are good stories! They don’t ~have~ to be relatable to kids. Kids don’t understand a lot of shit.
?? This was like, 80% of high school drama by a quick estimation. It doesn't have to be to the same degree to be relevant. "Hey I heard Joe saw Becky kissing Luke! I thought she was still with Derek?"
This is only very superficially related to the deep, disturbing feelings depicted in a play like Othello or say A Winters Tale? I don’t think playground gossip really has that much to do with what it feels like to be a middle aged man with a wife he’s known half his life who suspects that she may have strayed and wishes desperately that he didn’t know—that he hadn’t seen “the spider in his cup.”
i think this is a situation where there are layers of nuance to the theme, but not being able to exactly understand every aspect of it because you've literally never known anyone for 20 years doesn't equal not being able to grasp the material at all
most of shakespeare has a superficial level of understanding and then deeper layers
Yeah, but isn’t this going to be true for everything? There aren’t going to be many pieces of work where there is literally zero level no matter how superficial on which a kid, or any human, can relate. It doesn’t strike me as an especially compelling case for pedagogical value.
They question is never “is this worse than doing nothing”; it’s “is this better than doing everything else.” Anything you do teach is something else you can’t.
I mean like my little brother who is in college right now.
But he was fucking everyone. Everyone was fucking at every party imaginable.
He had sex with way more people during high school alone then I did in my whole life.
And all my younger friends confirm the same things at their schools. I know it's just examples but that's basically all I ever hear.
Why y'all spend so much time talking about highschoolers fuckin'
Because he's my brother who was still my brother when he was in high school. So he would discuss his life with me, his older brother. Why would that be weird? It's much better for a young person to be able to talk about that stuff with someone than not.
No, no
It's the second part of the post that had me concerned, Stacey :P
"It's basically all I ever hear" makes it sound like you are constantly inundated with tales of teenagers banging!
I feel like it's safe to assume that people having lots of sex are going to overestimate how much sex is going on in the broader population around them
College drinking surveys are hilarious
Wait I mean tragic
but basically everyone thinks everyone else is drinking more than them so they drink more to fit in.
I have heard of basically two racial dynamics in American high schools:
1) You go to a bougie, predominantly white school where race is something most of the students don't really think about or deal with
2) You go to a school where race violence is too real and meaningful discussions of racial issues tend to be particularly fraught
I don't recall my high school in the Baltimore suburbs being either one but I was only there for a year so maybe it was #2 and I just hadn't realized it yet
my Wisconsin high school was deffo #1 tho
My high school quite literally only had 2 black kids. The one girl in my class and the guy 3 or so grades below me. I remember when the Malcolm X movie came out, some wanted to ask the black girl in my classes opinion of it. Most of us though just had commentary like, "Why does this even matter? Is there still racism like that anymore? I mean Felicia is cool so all Black people are ok right?"
Shakespeare should be taught because we have a staggeringly rich cultural history and it ought not be discarded because of the ever-present desire to do something "modern" and "relevant". People have been saying that since the 1700s.
For me it’s not about relevance. It’s that I find it pedagogically wasteful that I was reading texts that I could not understand—in the most literal sense, I could not parse then—at ages where even if I were to understand them, I would have no comprehension of the themes of sex, death, and politics. Hard to see that as not being a pedagogical waste.
High school is arguable. Junior high: what. I’m not a person with generally low language skills and was an avid reader. Eh, w/e.
I don't believe it's impossible, or even very hard, for a 15yr old to connect with themes of sex, death, and politics. It's not taught that way! R&J should be upsettingly relatable for a HS sophomore. It's YA lit! Two idiot kids kill themselves over their ridiculous first love while their parents and family try to keep them apart. This is a relatable story!
Othello is relatable as fk! Jealousy destroys everything, just like in your own life!
The problem is with substandard teaching, not with Shakespeare.
Yes, sexual jealousy and race politics, my primary areas of lived experience at 12
Not to mention clever puns on the 1521 convention of the Holy Roman Empire addressing Martin Luther, aka the “Diet of Worms” (like... worms eating stuff... lol Shakespeare this wit!). DEFINITELY translates to the middle school experience.
Ok, he said 15 though, and boy howdy sexual jealousy and race politics at 15? yea. yea, we had some of those.
Most Americans are virgins for most of high school and most high schools are extremely racially segregated
Being a virgin most definitely does not exclude someone from sexual jealousy.
Yeah, sure, I really wanted to fuck because I was horny all the time and pop culture assured me that sex was great
In what sense does that experience at bear on the rotten feeling of a married man who lets rumors of infidelity progressively poison his mind
These are good stories! They don’t ~have~ to be relatable to kids. Kids don’t understand a lot of shit.
?? This was like, 80% of high school drama by a quick estimation. It doesn't have to be to the same degree to be relevant. "Hey I heard Joe saw Becky kissing Luke! I thought she was still with Derek?"
This is only very superficially related to the deep, disturbing feelings depicted in a play like Othello or say A Winters Tale? I don’t think playground gossip really has that much to do with what it feels like to be a middle aged man with a wife he’s known half his life who suspects that she may have strayed and wishes desperately that he didn’t know—that he hadn’t seen “the spider in his cup.”
i think this is a situation where there are layers of nuance to the theme, but not being able to exactly understand every aspect of it because you've literally never known anyone for 20 years doesn't equal not being able to grasp the material at all
most of shakespeare has a superficial level of understanding and then deeper layers
Yeah, but isn’t this going to be true for everything? There aren’t going to be many pieces of work where there is literally zero level no matter how superficial on which a kid, or any human, can relate. It doesn’t strike me as an especially compelling case for pedagogical value.
They question is never “is this worse than doing nothing”; it’s “is this better than doing everything else.” Anything you do teach is something else you can’t.
there are certainly things i had to read in high school i would scrap and replace before shakespeare
i guess i don't understand your argument though, because i thought it was specifically that teaching shakespeare is bad because teenagers can't understand it
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
Just imagining other Shakespeare titles in code format now
Nights.Item(Math.Median(Summer)).Dream
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
I learned the concept of negging from reading Shakespeare in high school. much ado about nothing I think it was.
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
Shakespeare should be taught because we have a staggeringly rich cultural history and it ought not be discarded because of the ever-present desire to do something "modern" and "relevant". People have been saying that since the 1700s.
For me it’s not about relevance. It’s that I find it pedagogically wasteful that I was reading texts that I could not understand—in the most literal sense, I could not parse then—at ages where even if I were to understand them, I would have no comprehension of the themes of sex, death, and politics. Hard to see that as not being a pedagogical waste.
High school is arguable. Junior high: what. I’m not a person with generally low language skills and was an avid reader. Eh, w/e.
I don't believe it's impossible, or even very hard, for a 15yr old to connect with themes of sex, death, and politics. It's not taught that way! R&J should be upsettingly relatable for a HS sophomore. It's YA lit! Two idiot kids kill themselves over their ridiculous first love while their parents and family try to keep them apart. This is a relatable story!
Othello is relatable as fk! Jealousy destroys everything, just like in your own life!
The problem is with substandard teaching, not with Shakespeare.
Yes, sexual jealousy and race politics, my primary areas of lived experience at 12
Not to mention clever puns on the 1521 convention of the Holy Roman Empire addressing Martin Luther, aka the “Diet of Worms” (like... worms eating stuff... lol Shakespeare this wit!). DEFINITELY translates to the middle school experience.
Ok, he said 15 though, and boy howdy sexual jealousy and race politics at 15? yea. yea, we had some of those.
Most Americans are virgins for most of high school and most high schools are extremely racially segregated
Is this still true? How do we actually know that?
People who I've known that were in High School just a few years ago were fucking everyone and said everyone was fucking. Because like high school parties are p gross and every fucks at random parties.
Systematic surveys. The first two sources I found on google both listed the median age for Americans as 17.
There's a strong incentive to lie or misrepresent about sexual activity (for males anyways) at that age.
You can always ask later, though.
In any case yes, but I think study authors are usually aware of that.
Right. My point was more in relation the first and second hand anecdotal evidence you guys were responding to.
Ah yes.
(though my favorite set of studies is still those that ask for lifetime number of sexual partners. They find, robustly, that men report 2-4 times as many as women for a variety of reasons, none of which include that being the case, as it requires mathematics to break down).
Posts
(cons Romeo Juliet)
Why y'all spend so much time talking about highschoolers fuckin'
it's probably useful to teach people to empathize with situations they can't completely relate to
You can always ask later, though.
In any case yes, but I think study authors are usually aware of that.
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
Right. My point was more in relation the first and second hand anecdotal evidence you guys were responding to.
It's getting worse.
Also in general I think having teenagers read fiction they can't necessarily relate to with shared experience is fine, because a) as someone pointed out, teenagers are dumb and can't relate to anything, and also b) a lot of teenagers love to get lost in a world where they can forget that they are a teenager for a little while
I did AP so mine was a bit different.
Mine also included Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States.
Because he's my brother who was still my brother when he was in high school. So he would discuss his life with me, his older brother. Why would that be weird? It's much better for a young person to be able to talk about that stuff with someone than not.
She's achingly desperate for cock from both Hamlet and her brother, but... her brother doesn't want to take the incest thing too far, and, while Hamlet does have a genuine obsession with Ophelia, it is mostly an asexual one. Hamlet only wants to bang Horatio, and of course his mother
People jealous of the sex havers are also going to overestimate.
High school was just like Obi wan because it was always holding me back
Are all of the Witches books Shakespeare meta?
Mathematician: I am still chasing the high I got from learning Euclid’s proof of the existence of an infinity of prime numbers. That is why I became a mathematician.
No, no
It's the second part of the post that had me concerned, Stacey :P
"It's basically all I ever hear" makes it sound like you are constantly inundated with tales of teenagers banging!
Yeah, but isn’t this going to be true for everything? There aren’t going to be many pieces of work where there is literally zero level no matter how superficial on which a kid, or any human, can relate. It doesn’t strike me as an especially compelling case for pedagogical value.
They question is never “is this worse than doing nothing”; it’s “is this better than doing everything else.” Anything you do teach is something else you can’t.
Maybe he lives in pornhub.
Maybe that one and Lords and Ladies. Witches Abroad is about Fairy Tales and Maskerade is a riff on Phantom of the Opera.
College drinking surveys are hilarious
Wait I mean tragic
but basically everyone thinks everyone else is drinking more than them so they drink more to fit in.
*sweats*
My high school quite literally only had 2 black kids. The one girl in my class and the guy 3 or so grades below me. I remember when the Malcolm X movie came out, some wanted to ask the black girl in my classes opinion of it. Most of us though just had commentary like, "Why does this even matter? Is there still racism like that anymore? I mean Felicia is cool so all Black people are ok right?"
That should be the standard not the AP. It all feels very "we can't teach the poor dumb people about the poor dumb history of the US, they'd revolt!"
any day now
there are certainly things i had to read in high school i would scrap and replace before shakespeare
i guess i don't understand your argument though, because i thought it was specifically that teaching shakespeare is bad because teenagers can't understand it
Nights.Item(Math.Median(Summer)).Dream
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
"sex is never finished, only abandoned" - benar
Hamlet+Ophelia
Hamlet+Laertes
Hamlet+Gertrude
Hamlet+skull
But I was an unattractive nerd. So no real surprise there.
yeah that's paid DLC
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
Hamlet+Yorrik is the OTP and one of them being dead can't stop that.
It would appear the answer is mostly "Empty land and the Appalachians", but we're looking for somewhere to sleep that is perhaps a little interesting
Ah yes.
(though my favorite set of studies is still those that ask for lifetime number of sexual partners. They find, robustly, that men report 2-4 times as many as women for a variety of reasons, none of which include that being the case, as it requires mathematics to break down).