so i'm on a raiding break. because i wasn't having any fun and i guess and figured maybe i'd level up another character or two. maybe something else would flow better. .so i leveled my DK, because i dunno i liked frost enough last expansion. and i guess it really hit me what one of my key issues is. BM isn't particularly sluggish. everything is. and it's all because of the GCD change. this is really one of the worst changes they have ever made, and i don't understand it one bit
it's not the only issue, but it just made me realize one thing that's going to make playing feel objectively worse no matter what class i play. and it's so bad that it's genuinely killing a chunk of my enthusiasm.
the other issue is, i stopped being able to parse well. i used to be able to be near the top of the charts regardless of the strength of my class. now my class is actually strong and i fell off, having trouble parsing higher than blue.
This is an interesting perspective, because I *thought* I'd feel this way with the GCD changes, but I actually like them. But I am almost 100% sure that's because I'm a healer, not DPS. As a healer, cooldowns cannot be used as reactively anymore, because the target will often die in those 1.5 seconds. I enjoy being tasked with foresight. But if I was in the role of DPS instead, what would I be looking ahead toward? Burning down an important add or something? Even so, waiting another 1.5 seconds makes little difference there, because you (the individual) are typically dealing only a small fraction of the target's health. All of the other DPS members are contributing too. So, in relative terms, it feels awful to wait another GCD just to deal a slightly higher fraction of that health bar. And that's assuming the charitable case where you're using a cooldown to accomplish something specific, not just to augment your usual routine. Meanwhile, as a healer, there are fewer people performing the same role, each ability affects the health bar more, and cooldown usage almost always results in saved lives, so the marginal utility from using a cooldown is greater.
Basically, I think the GCD changes only made sense for healers (and probably tanks), not DPS.
so i'm on a raiding break. because i wasn't having any fun and i guess and figured maybe i'd level up another character or two. maybe something else would flow better. .so i leveled my DK, because i dunno i liked frost enough last expansion. and i guess it really hit me what one of my key issues is. BM isn't particularly sluggish. everything is. and it's all because of the GCD change. this is really one of the worst changes they have ever made, and i don't understand it one bit
it's not the only issue, but it just made me realize one thing that's going to make playing feel objectively worse no matter what class i play. and it's so bad that it's genuinely killing a chunk of my enthusiasm.
the other issue is, i stopped being able to parse well. i used to be able to be near the top of the charts regardless of the strength of my class. now my class is actually strong and i fell off, having trouble parsing higher than blue.
This is an interesting perspective, because I *thought* I'd feel this way with the GCD changes, but I actually like them. But I am almost 100% sure that's because I'm a healer, not DPS. As a healer, cooldowns cannot be used as reactively anymore, because the target will often die in those 1.5 seconds. I enjoy being tasked with foresight. But if I was in the role of DPS instead, what would I be looking ahead toward? Burning down an important add or something? Even so, waiting another 1.5 seconds makes little difference there, because you (the individual) are typically dealing only a small fraction of the target's health. All of the other DPS members are contributing too. So, in relative terms, it feels awful to wait another GCD just to deal a slightly higher fraction of that health bar. And that's assuming the charitable case where you're using a cooldown to accomplish something specific, not just to augment your usual routine. Meanwhile, as a healer, there are fewer people performing the same role, each ability affects the health bar more, and cooldown usage almost always results in saved lives, so the marginal utility from using a cooldown is greater.
Basically, I think the GCD changes only made sense for healers (and probably tanks), not DPS.
Sometimes waiting a few seconds (or even more) for cooldowns to line up can be a huge boost to dps, depending on what we are talking about.
I do think it feels bad to pop a dps cooldown then have to wait a GCD to use it for anything (especially on the opener) but it's a pretty minor gripe
I feel bad for the tanks that got important stuff added to the GCD though
Im still not 100% used to hand of the protector being on the GCD. Especially because it used to be buffed by being in consecrate. so I have/had a LOT of muscle memory of hitting consecrate before i'd use it. Only now that means casting consecrate and then having to wait a second and a half before I can actually heal myself when I forgot that I cant do this in the same GCD.
what's weird is they didn't even put all the tank buttons on the GCD, demon spikes and shield block are still off GCD on my tanks, but ignore pain is on GCD because ?????
to be fair you're playing a class and spec you were't raiding with until now. and in particular survival isn't terribly affected by the change due to only having one cooldown really.
but to have to hit aspect or BW, then wait 2 seconds to press the other, then wait 2 seconds to hit a dps ability, it feels absolutely awful. especially when i used to be able to hit both, and start attacking all at once. it was like yeah here comes a cool burst of dps. now it's like, here comes waiting like 6 seconds to even start doing anything. frost DK has the same issue. pillar of frost, empower rune weapon, wait to attack, finally build up enough runic power to use breath of sindragosa. it feels like it takes forever.
maybe it's a decent change for healers, i dunno. i don't heal, or tank, so i can't speak on that aspect. all i know is it's absolutely killing the flow of the game for me to the point where it's genuinely hurting my enjoyment. i wish i liked survival so i could at least play a spec not too bothered by it, but i just don't.
what's weird is they didn't even put all the tank buttons on the GCD, demon spikes and shield block are still off GCD on my tanks, but ignore pain is on GCD because ?????
Active Mitigation is off. Heals are on. Ignore Pain is the heal, right? Shield Block is the AM.
to be fair you're playing a class and spec you were't raiding with until now. and in particular survival isn't terribly affected by the change due to only having one cooldown really.
but to have to hit aspect or BW, then wait 2 seconds to press the other, then wait 2 seconds to hit a dps ability, it feels absolutely awful. especially when i used to be able to hit both, and start attacking all at once. it was like yeah here comes a cool burst of dps. now it's like, here comes waiting like 6 seconds to even start doing anything. frost DK has the same issue. pillar of frost, empower rune weapon, wait to attack, finally build up enough runic power to use breath of sindragosa. it feels like it takes forever.
maybe it's a decent change for healers, i dunno. i don't heal, or tank, so i can't speak on that aspect. all i know is it's absolutely killing the flow of the game for me to the point where it's genuinely hurting my enjoyment. i wish i liked survival so i could at least play a spec not too bothered by it, but i just don't.
For DPS classes with multiple cooldowns, it can kinda feel like busy work. I'm supposed to use these cooldowns together, but for some reason, I gotta click one then the other before I can do anything, and for that to happen on your opener... it kinda fizzles out the moment. It's supposed to feel like a gungho CHAAAAARGE moment, and instead you spend 4 seconds not actually doing much.
It's kinda like why tank pulls don't happen as often as they maybe should, because pulling feels crappier than jumping in or throwing in your bouncy captain america shield. Pretty much every tank would prefer to jump into every pack if the mechanics would let them, just because it's more fun.
I guess ignore pain is considered the same way paladin self heal is? it's not a heal though it's a sort-of-shield that lets 50% of the damage through to your health
what's weird is they didn't even put all the tank buttons on the GCD, demon spikes and shield block are still off GCD on my tanks, but ignore pain is on GCD because ?????
Active Mitigation is off. Heals are on. Ignore Pain is the heal, right? Shield Block is the AM.
to be fair you're playing a class and spec you were't raiding with until now. and in particular survival isn't terribly affected by the change due to only having one cooldown really.
but to have to hit aspect or BW, then wait 2 seconds to press the other, then wait 2 seconds to hit a dps ability, it feels absolutely awful. especially when i used to be able to hit both, and start attacking all at once. it was like yeah here comes a cool burst of dps. now it's like, here comes waiting like 6 seconds to even start doing anything. frost DK has the same issue. pillar of frost, empower rune weapon, wait to attack, finally build up enough runic power to use breath of sindragosa. it feels like it takes forever.
maybe it's a decent change for healers, i dunno. i don't heal, or tank, so i can't speak on that aspect. all i know is it's absolutely killing the flow of the game for me to the point where it's genuinely hurting my enjoyment. i wish i liked survival so i could at least play a spec not too bothered by it, but i just don't.
For DPS classes with multiple cooldowns, it can kinda feel like busy work. I'm supposed to use these cooldowns together, but for some reason, I gotta click one then the other before I can do anything, and for that to happen on your opener... it kinda fizzles out the moment. It's supposed to feel like a gungho CHAAAAARGE moment, and instead you spend 4 seconds not actually doing much.
It's kinda like why tank pulls don't happen as often as they maybe should, because pulling feels crappier than jumping in or throwing in your bouncy captain america shield. Pretty much every tank would prefer to jump into every pack if the mechanics would let them, just because it's more fun.
I throw my bouncy shield because it silences stuff, which means it helps group packs that have casters.
Also I guess because it does 6 times the damage of my hammer of righteous. Aggro is gross this expansion I hate it.
what's weird is they didn't even put all the tank buttons on the GCD, demon spikes and shield block are still off GCD on my tanks, but ignore pain is on GCD because ?????
Active Mitigation is off. Heals are on. Ignore Pain is the heal, right? Shield Block is the AM.
to be fair you're playing a class and spec you were't raiding with until now. and in particular survival isn't terribly affected by the change due to only having one cooldown really.
but to have to hit aspect or BW, then wait 2 seconds to press the other, then wait 2 seconds to hit a dps ability, it feels absolutely awful. especially when i used to be able to hit both, and start attacking all at once. it was like yeah here comes a cool burst of dps. now it's like, here comes waiting like 6 seconds to even start doing anything. frost DK has the same issue. pillar of frost, empower rune weapon, wait to attack, finally build up enough runic power to use breath of sindragosa. it feels like it takes forever.
maybe it's a decent change for healers, i dunno. i don't heal, or tank, so i can't speak on that aspect. all i know is it's absolutely killing the flow of the game for me to the point where it's genuinely hurting my enjoyment. i wish i liked survival so i could at least play a spec not too bothered by it, but i just don't.
For DPS classes with multiple cooldowns, it can kinda feel like busy work. I'm supposed to use these cooldowns together, but for some reason, I gotta click one then the other before I can do anything, and for that to happen on your opener... it kinda fizzles out the moment. It's supposed to feel like a gungho CHAAAAARGE moment, and instead you spend 4 seconds not actually doing much.
It's kinda like why tank pulls don't happen as often as they maybe should, because pulling feels crappier than jumping in or throwing in your bouncy captain america shield. Pretty much every tank would prefer to jump into every pack if the mechanics would let them, just because it's more fun.
I get to pull things with Death Grip. Does that count as pulling?
what's weird is they didn't even put all the tank buttons on the GCD, demon spikes and shield block are still off GCD on my tanks, but ignore pain is on GCD because ?????
Active Mitigation is off. Heals are on. Ignore Pain is the heal, right? Shield Block is the AM.
to be fair you're playing a class and spec you were't raiding with until now. and in particular survival isn't terribly affected by the change due to only having one cooldown really.
but to have to hit aspect or BW, then wait 2 seconds to press the other, then wait 2 seconds to hit a dps ability, it feels absolutely awful. especially when i used to be able to hit both, and start attacking all at once. it was like yeah here comes a cool burst of dps. now it's like, here comes waiting like 6 seconds to even start doing anything. frost DK has the same issue. pillar of frost, empower rune weapon, wait to attack, finally build up enough runic power to use breath of sindragosa. it feels like it takes forever.
maybe it's a decent change for healers, i dunno. i don't heal, or tank, so i can't speak on that aspect. all i know is it's absolutely killing the flow of the game for me to the point where it's genuinely hurting my enjoyment. i wish i liked survival so i could at least play a spec not too bothered by it, but i just don't.
For DPS classes with multiple cooldowns, it can kinda feel like busy work. I'm supposed to use these cooldowns together, but for some reason, I gotta click one then the other before I can do anything, and for that to happen on your opener... it kinda fizzles out the moment. It's supposed to feel like a gungho CHAAAAARGE moment, and instead you spend 4 seconds not actually doing much.
It's kinda like why tank pulls don't happen as often as they maybe should, because pulling feels crappier than jumping in or throwing in your bouncy captain america shield. Pretty much every tank would prefer to jump into every pack if the mechanics would let them, just because it's more fun.
I get to pull things with Death Grip. Does that count as pulling?
The weird and inexplicably generous placement of infested mobs in last nights temple kind of makes me think that which mobs get infested may be random, or at least somewhat random. Because through the whole place we had to deal with what, 2 infested mobs that weren't able to be pulled alone?
As for GCD CD the only time I’ve found it annoying is as discipline in pvp, because archangel and rapture being on GCD when I need to give angry some big bone healing juice sucks. Otherwise I’ve found it a complete non issue. Possibly because all Unholy CDs were on the GCD in legion, but I find every complaint about oh no I need to spend /4 seconds/ hitting my buttons to be really silly
You guys did a +10? Which +9 did you push to get that key?
Siege, which seemed pretty easy, but I also wasn't there for the learning experience run.
Yeah, it was totally doable, if we hadn't wiped we'd have been to the last boss with about 2 minutes left. I don't remember exactly where we wiped, but I think it was just once on the stupid third boss trash because the boss didn't reset when he walked through the doorway.
You guys did a +10? Which +9 did you push to get that key?
Siege, which seemed pretty easy, but I also wasn't there for the learning experience run.
Yeah, it was totally doable, if we hadn't wiped we'd have been to the last boss with about 2 minutes left. I don't remember exactly where we wiped, but I think it was just once on the stupid third boss trash because the boss didn't reset when he walked through the doorway.
Speaking of the last boss, that fight takes WAY too long IMO. We had a dps die early but other than that was pretty flawless, and it still lasted nearly 5 minutes.
I'm just not that into the dungeons this time around. Most of them just feel like a chore and not actually interesting. It's clear they're wanting to go back to that state where you actually have to plan out every trash pull and cc and shit which has some logic to it but it gets really tiring especially when you're on a timer. I think Kings rest is one of the only ones I actually like. It's disappointing.
I think the 5 mans are overall very good. I like freeze traps and polymorphs feeling useful quite a lot. It doesn't feel like "stop, spend five minutes marking which mobs to CC, pull" at all to me.
Ideally you've got someone who can mark targets for CC during the prior pull, so you waste no time. And you only want to CC one, two at most, because otherwise you won't beat the timer. The timer really helps keep it from devolving into TBC-era "mark 4 things and spend a full minute staring at the mobs" gameplay.
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
You absolutely needed cc chains to push high keys in legion. That isnt anything new.
And yeah Kings rest is a better instance than Temple but on teeming fortified that was a hell nightmare of trash wipes.
Are those higher parses from people who pot every minute for those maximum gainz? As well as best food, 100% uptime flasks, and whatever else. That would result in higher numbers, but of course it would be incredibly expensive and well....we're still killing mans fine.
I dunno its slightly annoying to battle pot and see that some people arent even running cheap food
Its also nice to sometimes kill a boss instead of run them over with a higher ilvl
Bfa dungeon trash in general feels stronger than in most legion dungeons, which makes sense with the bigger focus on m+ and m+ being like a long encounter you need to plan for all stages of in advance. I don’t think that’s a problem
I really don’t like fortified/tyrannical being the first modifier.
It feels...really weird to have it be there, since it's just a passive numbers boost. And they appear to have adjusted the flat +%damage/health to compensate for it basically always being on. So...what's the point?
I still need m+ tonight because i chickened out of pugging last night. I'll be on in a couple hours if anyone wants to join me. I don't real feel like a 2 hour climb so I'll probably just do the first +2-4 that accepts me and call it a night.
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Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
I'll be around tonight for m+. If anyone needs a +2 tanked I can do that on my monk (guild alt run, maybe?). Otherwise I'm also up for healing higher keys on my priest.
It definitely requires a shift for it not to feel weird using cooldowns on trash
I was always using CD's on trash in legion. Aspect was like a 2minute cooldown. you can use it 15 times and there's 3-4 bosses? hell yeah you use that shit on the top 10 trash packs in the dungeon.
I really don’t like fortified/tyrannical being the first modifier.
It feels...really weird to have it be there, since it's just a passive numbers boost. And they appear to have adjusted the flat +%damage/health to compensate for it basically always being on. So...what's the point?
One week trash is beefier and the other three bosses are. That's it.
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This is an interesting perspective, because I *thought* I'd feel this way with the GCD changes, but I actually like them. But I am almost 100% sure that's because I'm a healer, not DPS. As a healer, cooldowns cannot be used as reactively anymore, because the target will often die in those 1.5 seconds. I enjoy being tasked with foresight. But if I was in the role of DPS instead, what would I be looking ahead toward? Burning down an important add or something? Even so, waiting another 1.5 seconds makes little difference there, because you (the individual) are typically dealing only a small fraction of the target's health. All of the other DPS members are contributing too. So, in relative terms, it feels awful to wait another GCD just to deal a slightly higher fraction of that health bar. And that's assuming the charitable case where you're using a cooldown to accomplish something specific, not just to augment your usual routine. Meanwhile, as a healer, there are fewer people performing the same role, each ability affects the health bar more, and cooldown usage almost always results in saved lives, so the marginal utility from using a cooldown is greater.
Basically, I think the GCD changes only made sense for healers (and probably tanks), not DPS.
Sometimes waiting a few seconds (or even more) for cooldowns to line up can be a huge boost to dps, depending on what we are talking about.
I feel bad for the tanks that got important stuff added to the GCD though
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Im still not 100% used to hand of the protector being on the GCD. Especially because it used to be buffed by being in consecrate. so I have/had a LOT of muscle memory of hitting consecrate before i'd use it. Only now that means casting consecrate and then having to wait a second and a half before I can actually heal myself when I forgot that I cant do this in the same GCD.
to be fair you're playing a class and spec you were't raiding with until now. and in particular survival isn't terribly affected by the change due to only having one cooldown really.
but to have to hit aspect or BW, then wait 2 seconds to press the other, then wait 2 seconds to hit a dps ability, it feels absolutely awful. especially when i used to be able to hit both, and start attacking all at once. it was like yeah here comes a cool burst of dps. now it's like, here comes waiting like 6 seconds to even start doing anything. frost DK has the same issue. pillar of frost, empower rune weapon, wait to attack, finally build up enough runic power to use breath of sindragosa. it feels like it takes forever.
maybe it's a decent change for healers, i dunno. i don't heal, or tank, so i can't speak on that aspect. all i know is it's absolutely killing the flow of the game for me to the point where it's genuinely hurting my enjoyment. i wish i liked survival so i could at least play a spec not too bothered by it, but i just don't.
Active Mitigation is off. Heals are on. Ignore Pain is the heal, right? Shield Block is the AM.
For DPS classes with multiple cooldowns, it can kinda feel like busy work. I'm supposed to use these cooldowns together, but for some reason, I gotta click one then the other before I can do anything, and for that to happen on your opener... it kinda fizzles out the moment. It's supposed to feel like a gungho CHAAAAARGE moment, and instead you spend 4 seconds not actually doing much.
It's kinda like why tank pulls don't happen as often as they maybe should, because pulling feels crappier than jumping in or throwing in your bouncy captain america shield. Pretty much every tank would prefer to jump into every pack if the mechanics would let them, just because it's more fun.
I throw my bouncy shield because it silences stuff, which means it helps group packs that have casters.
Also I guess because it does 6 times the damage of my hammer of righteous. Aggro is gross this expansion I hate it.
I get to pull things with Death Grip. Does that count as pulling?
the most literal pulls
Siege, which seemed pretty easy, but I also wasn't there for the learning experience run.
Oh yeah definitely; fuck that place
Kings Rest is by far the superior dungeon, I blame teeming/fortified for making it bad. Temple will ALWAYS be bad, regardless of affix.
Yeah, it was totally doable, if we hadn't wiped we'd have been to the last boss with about 2 minutes left. I don't remember exactly where we wiped, but I think it was just once on the stupid third boss trash because the boss didn't reset when he walked through the doorway.
Speaking of the last boss, that fight takes WAY too long IMO. We had a dps die early but other than that was pretty flawless, and it still lasted nearly 5 minutes.
And yeah Kings rest is a better instance than Temple but on teeming fortified that was a hell nightmare of trash wipes.
I dunno its slightly annoying to battle pot and see that some people arent even running cheap food
Its also nice to sometimes kill a boss instead of run them over with a higher ilvl
It feels...really weird to have it be there, since it's just a passive numbers boost. And they appear to have adjusted the flat +%damage/health to compensate for it basically always being on. So...what's the point?
I was always using CD's on trash in legion. Aspect was like a 2minute cooldown. you can use it 15 times and there's 3-4 bosses? hell yeah you use that shit on the top 10 trash packs in the dungeon.
One week trash is beefier and the other three bosses are. That's it.