What was all that we were hearing about Trump being pro-LGBT?
I believe that was more aimed at Jared and Ivanka, whom allegedly had his ear and would curb his uglier impulses.
Like many such stories, it has been repeatedly proven to be full of shit.
Edit: that said I’m sure he has claimed to be the best for the gays at some point during his campaign.
There was an LGBTs For Trump fake group and he showed a rainbow flag at one point in the election.
He also invited Caitlyn Jenner to events and got an endorsement from her.
In truth this was useful in showing that LGBT folks are no different than anyone else; we are all just as capable of being fooled by a con man.
Not really. Caitlyn has been a terrible trans leader and had only been out and trans for like what a year or two at that time? It shows that the very rich and the very famous will choose each other over anything else.
Yes, all true. But Trump very much had a habit of using unsuspecting/unaware folks as shields to show he is not a monster. Caitlyn can use the women's room in Trump Tower... he loves his African Americans... its just a cover for his awfulness, and Caitlyn shouldn't be a leader of anything really IMO etc maybe some olympic successes... but she was a person like many others who fell for his shit, which was total shit, and helped to spin the lie that maybe Trump isn't a monster.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
What was all that we were hearing about Trump being pro-LGBT?
I believe that was more aimed at Jared and Ivanka, whom allegedly had his ear and would curb his uglier impulses.
Like many such stories, it has been repeatedly proven to be full of shit.
Edit: that said I’m sure he has claimed to be the best for the gays at some point during his campaign.
There was an LGBTs For Trump fake group and he showed a rainbow flag at one point in the election.
He also invited Caitlyn Jenner to events and got an endorsement from her.
In truth this was useful in showing that LGBT folks are no different than anyone else; we are all just as capable of being fooled by a con man.
Not really. Caitlyn has been a terrible trans leader and had only been out and trans for like what a year or two at that time? It shows that the very rich and the very famous will choose each other over anything else.
Yes, all true. But Trump very much had a habit of using unsuspecting/unaware folks as shields to show he is not a monster. Caitlyn can use the women's room in Trump Tower... he loves his African Americans... its just a cover for his awfulness, and Caitlyn shouldn't be a leader of anything really IMO etc maybe some olympic successes... but she was a person like many others who fell for his shit, which was total shit, and helped to spin the lie that maybe Trump isn't a monster.
Oh yeah I totally agree with this. I just didn’t want to absolve CJ in this. She was complicit. As is Kanye. As was Jimmy Fallon.
What was all that we were hearing about Trump being pro-LGBT?
I believe that was more aimed at Jared and Ivanka, whom allegedly had his ear and would curb his uglier impulses.
Like many such stories, it has been repeatedly proven to be full of shit.
Edit: that said I’m sure he has claimed to be the best for the gays at some point during his campaign.
There was an LGBTs For Trump fake group and he showed a rainbow flag at one point in the election.
He also invited Caitlyn Jenner to events and got an endorsement from her.
In truth this was useful in showing that LGBT folks are no different than anyone else; we are all just as capable of being fooled by a con man.
Not really. Caitlyn has been a terrible trans leader and had only been out and trans for like what a year or two at that time? It shows that the very rich and the very famous will choose each other over anything else.
Yes, all true. But Trump very much had a habit of using unsuspecting/unaware folks as shields to show he is not a monster. Caitlyn can use the women's room in Trump Tower... he loves his African Americans... its just a cover for his awfulness, and Caitlyn shouldn't be a leader of anything really IMO etc maybe some olympic successes... but she was a person like many others who fell for his shit, which was total shit, and helped to spin the lie that maybe Trump isn't a monster.
Caitlyn is a known republican and Kanye(if he's not suffering from unmedicated bipolar disorder) is using Trump for PR. Can we stop this whole they don't know what they're doing nonsense? They know and like what he's doing. They just assume it'll never affect them because so far it hasn't.
I will absolutely organize and do everything I can to fight any of this nonsense. We did it years ago and we can do it again and again if we have to. It just really really sucks that we have to! But again I said over and over that gay marriage while amazing wouldn't secure any of the legal rights that we have needed codified for fucking FIFTY YEARS and oh look here we are again!
the time to rattle politicians and special interest groups is now
this is shit that directly impacts me
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
Has any politician condemned, or even acknowledged, that a marginalized group is going to have their civil rights revoked? By design and intent to revoke those civil rights? I feel like I'm going crazy, and no one cares. It feels awful.
Has any politician condemned, or even acknowledged, that a marginalized group is going to have their civil rights revoked? By design and intent to revoke those civil rights? I feel like I'm going crazy, and no one cares. It feels awful.
Are we just getting thrown under the bus here?
To be fair to the Democrats, this got thrown out to the media out of the blue on a Saturday. It's going to take a bit for people to gather a response, since it's not like this was even on the agenda last week.
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
That's a good point, thank you.
Sorry. I feel a bit panicked about all of this, I admit. It's terrifying and I am not coping well.
That said, it feels like maybe we need a thread title update?
It seems like something of an escalation to go from barring transgender people from serving in the military to flat out proclaiming they don't exist, as policy.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
They were waiting on this second justice for all the real anti lgbt executive orders. I’d bet with the Trumps relationship with the Kennedys being so close he’s known since he was sworn in that he could get Kennedy to retire.
I really don't see the point in this action beyond trying to score points with the base.
As with so many other horrible actions lately: The cruelty is the point.
Cruelty as policy isn't just for refugees and immigrants, it seems.
Deterrence from existing openly is going to do a lot of damage, and if Pence has any influence in this matter I wouldn't be shocked if they added 'and gee, gays can probably get themselves... straightened out' at some point as well.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I really don't see the point in this action beyond trying to score points with the base.
As with so many other horrible actions lately: The cruelty is the point.
Cruelty as policy isn't just for refugees and immigrants, it seems.
Deterrence from existing openly is going to do a lot of damage, and if Pence has any influence in this matter I wouldn't be shocked if they added 'and gee, gays can probably get themselves... straightened out' at some point as well.
Didn’t he do something, either as Governor (which would be so much worse) or in his radio host role, that encouraged whatever the shitty term for "brainwashing away the gay" centres in hus tenure in Indiana?
I really don't see the point in this action beyond trying to score points with the base.
They have their court tilting justice. This is what these ignorant bigoted fucks have been salivating over for years. The flood gates on discrimination are going to be wide open now because if anything just gets to the supreme court, the supreme court is going to side with them and they will win.
The point in this action is literally a sincere version of that eddie murphy pic meme. "You don't have to deal with Transgender rights, if Transgender people don't exist."
Next up to bat will be the ability for companies to fire any LGBT person for "religious objections". Which will also include being able to refuse to hire someone for the same, and shortly there after we'll have business that will be free to hang "no gays allowed" signs on their windows. Now that last one will backfire for most places, because people will boycott the shit out of them. But it will just mean that there are going to be multiple cases where you can be refused service and/or employment just because you are LGBT and there's nothing you'll be able to do about it.
This is also part of the "machismo" part of fascism, controlling women, and a backup method of demonizing someone who doesn't fit under any other minority category.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes wkrk
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes wkrk
I don't think anyone is doomsaying. But I think everyone is concerned and scared for good reasons. My old LGBT center is posting lots of stuff about standing with our trans community members and I am seeing a lot on my facebook feed for people who are equally concerned and ready to fight this.
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes work
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
Oh, I don't trust any of these fuckers on anything. But the specific issue they've picked here is essentially birth certificates and IDs, which are both state run. This specific policy decision runs into enough interstate law questions that it has to go to SCOTUS (if it is implemented), and the outcome is in doubt, even with Kavanaugh on the court.
The next thing they try could be more heinous, I'm just saying for this one, it was an illconsidered primal scream of stupid bigotry. Which obviously, for this admin.
Also, the answers to your questions are only actually bad faith questions for bigots, and fuck them.
I really don't see the point in this action beyond trying to score points with the base.
They don't want to be forced to acknowledge trans people exist, let alone that they have any rights on that basis.
I don't know how much they care so much as they think this is a solid wedge issue like gay marriage in the early aughts.
I would find this more convincing if we weren't currently committing crimes against humanity at the Southern border in furtherance of a white ethno-state.
I really don't see the point in this action beyond trying to score points with the base.
They don't want to be forced to acknowledge trans people exist, let alone that they have any rights on that basis.
I don't know how much they care so much as they think this is a solid wedge issue like gay marriage in the early aughts.
I would find this more convincing if we weren't currently committing crimes against humanity at the Southern border in furtherance of a white ethno-state.
Honestly the play may be dividing outrage across so many ... outrages
I really don't see the point in this action beyond trying to score points with the base.
They don't want to be forced to acknowledge trans people exist, let alone that they have any rights on that basis.
I don't know how much they care so much as they think this is a solid wedge issue like gay marriage in the early aughts.
I would find this more convincing if we weren't currently committing crimes against humanity at the Southern border in furtherance of a white ethno-state.
Honestly the play may be dividing outrage across so many ... outrages
A constant and aggressive push against civil society's norms tied with a wave of propaganda is 100 percent historical fascist strategy.
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes wkrk
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
Re bolded: No there isn't. Re italics: Solved problems already. The first is a non issue, the second is dealt with exactly the same way you do the person who doesn't want to be patted down by a black screener.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Actually, we have accomodations for same gender patdowns, it's just that the question of what gender a trans person is isn't ambiguous.
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes wkrk
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
This is a whole rabbit hole right here. If birth certificates are to determine gender, and DNA tests are codified as the challenge to a birth certificate, can I sue to have the TSA agent who patted me down DNA tested? And what if it comes up as intersexed?
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes wkrk
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
This is a whole rabbit hole right here. If birth certificates are to determine gender, and DNA tests are codified as the challenge to a birth certificate, can I sue to have the TSA agent who patted me down DNA tested? And what if it comes up as intersexed?
It's almost like this polixy idea is motivated by hate rather than science or reason!
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
A more pressing question constitutionally would be what do you do about trans people who have already had that stuff changed? Your gender doesn't have a fucking asterisk.
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes work
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
Oh, I don't trust any of these fuckers on anything. But the specific issue they've picked here is essentially birth certificates and IDs, which are both state run. This specific policy decision runs into enough interstate law questions that it has to go to SCOTUS (if it is implemented), and the outcome is in doubt, even with Kavanaugh on the court.
The next thing they try could be more heinous, I'm just saying for this one, it was an illconsidered primal scream of stupid bigotry. Which obviously, for this admin.
Also, the answers to your questions are only actually bad faith questions for bigots, and fuck them.
A more pressing question constitutionally would be what do you do about trans people who have already had that stuff changed? Your gender doesn't have a fucking asterisk.
Presumably they try to claim they were fraudulent.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes work
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
Oh, I don't trust any of these fuckers on anything. But the specific issue they've picked here is essentially birth certificates and IDs, which are both state run. This specific policy decision runs into enough interstate law questions that it has to go to SCOTUS (if it is implemented), and the outcome is in doubt, even with Kavanaugh on the court.
The next thing they try could be more heinous, I'm just saying for this one, it was an illconsidered primal scream of stupid bigotry. Which obviously, for this admin.
Also, the answers to your questions are only actually bad faith questions for bigots, and fuck them.
Passports aren't state run though!
This is true. But between the state questions and the questions of people who have already requested the change, I don't believe that this won't be sued. And unfortunately the passport question is more straightforward win for these douchegeese.
A more pressing question constitutionally would be what do you do about trans people who have already had that stuff changed? Your gender doesn't have a fucking asterisk.
Hmm. So I think that this part is super duper double complicated.
Like, I had my birth cert changed. It's an NYC cert and they have great rules; when it's changed for gender reasons they consider it original after the correction. So there's nothing indicating that the cert was ever heavily modified.
But other jurisdictions are totally different, and I've helped others change their info before, so it does sometimes say there is a corrected version.
But we already know that this policy wasn't thought out in any realistic way.
See my post above about how businesses and a state like Indiana responded to those types of discriminatory laws
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes wkrk
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
Medicine mostly treats women like weirdly-shaped men as it is. Not that that's a good thing, obviously; but my guess is that transgender people are in much more danger from plain old sexism and transphobia in medicine than from misleading intake forms.
Posts
Yes, all true. But Trump very much had a habit of using unsuspecting/unaware folks as shields to show he is not a monster. Caitlyn can use the women's room in Trump Tower... he loves his African Americans... its just a cover for his awfulness, and Caitlyn shouldn't be a leader of anything really IMO etc maybe some olympic successes... but she was a person like many others who fell for his shit, which was total shit, and helped to spin the lie that maybe Trump isn't a monster.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Caitlyn is a known republican and Kanye(if he's not suffering from unmedicated bipolar disorder) is using Trump for PR. Can we stop this whole they don't know what they're doing nonsense? They know and like what he's doing. They just assume it'll never affect them because so far it hasn't.
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the time to rattle politicians and special interest groups is now
this is shit that directly impacts me
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Are we just getting thrown under the bus here?
To be fair to the Democrats, this got thrown out to the media out of the blue on a Saturday. It's going to take a bit for people to gather a response, since it's not like this was even on the agenda last week.
Sorry. I feel a bit panicked about all of this, I admit. It's terrifying and I am not coping well.
It seems like something of an escalation to go from barring transgender people from serving in the military to flat out proclaiming they don't exist, as policy.
not to excuse Trump: he left the doors open to these shitheads
but we're very much seeing a bigoted grudge from "Christian" organizations working itself into hard policy
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Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
As with so many other horrible actions lately: The cruelty is the point.
Cruelty as policy isn't just for refugees and immigrants, it seems.
Deterrence from existing openly is going to do a lot of damage, and if Pence has any influence in this matter I wouldn't be shocked if they added 'and gee, gays can probably get themselves... straightened out' at some point as well.
Didn’t he do something, either as Governor (which would be so much worse) or in his radio host role, that encouraged whatever the shitty term for "brainwashing away the gay" centres in hus tenure in Indiana?
Also seems good to mention that Pence was a wildly unpopular governor very likely to lose reelection mostly due to his positions on these issues.
In Indiana.
They have their court tilting justice. This is what these ignorant bigoted fucks have been salivating over for years. The flood gates on discrimination are going to be wide open now because if anything just gets to the supreme court, the supreme court is going to side with them and they will win.
The point in this action is literally a sincere version of that eddie murphy pic meme. "You don't have to deal with Transgender rights, if Transgender people don't exist."
Next up to bat will be the ability for companies to fire any LGBT person for "religious objections". Which will also include being able to refuse to hire someone for the same, and shortly there after we'll have business that will be free to hang "no gays allowed" signs on their windows. Now that last one will backfire for most places, because people will boycott the shit out of them. But it will just mean that there are going to be multiple cases where you can be refused service and/or employment just because you are LGBT and there's nothing you'll be able to do about it.
I feel like the GOP and the fundie parts of their base might try this shit, but I don’t think the rest of the country is going to go along with them.
We’re probably mostly in agreement, Viskod, I just have a lot of faith in our people that they won’t let the GOP get away with this.
There are a bunch of reasons why this is going to face lawsuits from day one, and there may not actually be a 5 SCOTUS justice majority.
That's not even getting to the part where saying they are going to do some bastard thing does not mean they are actually going to accomplish said thing.
Evil takes wkrk
I think that Lesbian and Gay marriage etc is safe, BUT, I do worry that transgender rights is in a more fragile state. Hell, its a more complex state of affairs to start with because there are real concerns in relation to biological gender which there aren't in relation to being gay or straight. None of these concerns actually add up to say "Transgender people should not be allowed to express the outwards gender which is right for them and be treated as such", but you can throw real issues into the mix like "If your drivers license says you are a woman, but you are biologically male, won't that be dangerous if you go into surgery at a hospital after a car accident?" and so on. Or, "If you are being patted down at the airport for security, you can request someone of the same gender to do the patdown. What do we do about transgender TSA agents?"
Things like this are actually real things which should be sorted out in a real discussion but they will blunt the outcry from the business community.
They don't want to be forced to acknowledge trans people exist, let alone that they have any rights on that basis.
I don't know how much they care so much as they think this is a solid wedge issue like gay marriage in the early aughts.
Oh, I don't trust any of these fuckers on anything. But the specific issue they've picked here is essentially birth certificates and IDs, which are both state run. This specific policy decision runs into enough interstate law questions that it has to go to SCOTUS (if it is implemented), and the outcome is in doubt, even with Kavanaugh on the court.
The next thing they try could be more heinous, I'm just saying for this one, it was an illconsidered primal scream of stupid bigotry. Which obviously, for this admin.
Also, the answers to your questions are only actually bad faith questions for bigots, and fuck them.
I would find this more convincing if we weren't currently committing crimes against humanity at the Southern border in furtherance of a white ethno-state.
Honestly the play may be dividing outrage across so many ... outrages
A constant and aggressive push against civil society's norms tied with a wave of propaganda is 100 percent historical fascist strategy.
Re bolded: No there isn't. Re italics: Solved problems already. The first is a non issue, the second is dealt with exactly the same way you do the person who doesn't want to be patted down by a black screener.
It's almost like this polixy idea is motivated by hate rather than science or reason!
Presumably they try to claim they were fraudulent.
This is true. But between the state questions and the questions of people who have already requested the change, I don't believe that this won't be sued. And unfortunately the passport question is more straightforward win for these douchegeese.
Hmm. So I think that this part is super duper double complicated.
Like, I had my birth cert changed. It's an NYC cert and they have great rules; when it's changed for gender reasons they consider it original after the correction. So there's nothing indicating that the cert was ever heavily modified.
But other jurisdictions are totally different, and I've helped others change their info before, so it does sometimes say there is a corrected version.
But we already know that this policy wasn't thought out in any realistic way.
Medicine mostly treats women like weirdly-shaped men as it is. Not that that's a good thing, obviously; but my guess is that transgender people are in much more danger from plain old sexism and transphobia in medicine than from misleading intake forms.