Options

Latin America Thread: Because North American politics are too dang tame.

18911131481

Posts

  • Options
    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • Options
    Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    I get the impression that Lula's disqualification occurred under suspect circumstances (as in, constitutionally he cannot stand while in prison, but his imprisonment was mandated by a narrow-margin partisan decision), but that the PT overall has legitimately huge corruption problems, which is a serious detriment when law and order is a major issue

    Not to mention that, again, Lula tried to run for president from prison. That shows such a naked contempt of the rule of law that on a country with massive crime and corruption problems, don't know how they expected that people wouldn't be insulted by it. Or they didn't cared, which leads to the same result.

    Not only that, but the law which made him ineligible to run (the Clean Record Act of 2010) was one he signed after unanimous passage by the legislature controlled by his own coalition

  • Options
    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    political violence = "getting tough on leftists"
    interesting take

    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

  • Options
    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    I am now a person in exile

    fuck

    fuck gendered marketing
  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Options
    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    because that's who we should really be concerned about. Mining investors. Not the poor, or indigenous, or lgbt community. Mining investors.

    fuck gendered marketing
  • Options
    TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    I legitimately hope someone gets fired for that CBC tweet/article. They're normally better than that.
    Someone should pass them a memo that they don't need to be "fair and balanced" when it comes to a literal fascist.

    TubularLuggage on
  • Options
    RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    I agree with giving fewer restrictions to investors, but this is the mining business we're talking about, and that sadly probably means the environment is going to suffer a lot.

    I'm so sorry this person won. To my understanding, this happened because of what we call "voto-castigo" or punishment vote. Venezuela gave a voto-castigo to the far left when they elected chavez, and Brazil gave it to the far right... Let's hope it doesn't end up nearly as disastrous as it seems.

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.

    Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.

  • Options
    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.

    Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.

    Except they still left the 'getting tough on leftists' bit in there, right in the same sentence as 'curtailing crime'. So it's better, but it sure as hell isn't close to being good.

    I'm not shocked by the Brazilian results though. The whole setup seemed like a reductio ad absurdum of the vote for the lesser evil argument. Yeah, the fascist is worse, but you throw enough corruption, crime, and inequality into the mix and that argument will only get you so far.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Options
    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Also a large scale internet/whatsapp lie and slander campaign.

  • Options
    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Also a large scale internet/whatsapp lie and slander campaign.

    Facebook is the devil.

  • Options
    RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    daveNYC wrote: »
    I'm not shocked by the Brazilian results though. The whole setup seemed like a reductio ad absurdum of the vote for the lesser evil argument. Yeah, the fascist is worse, but you throw enough corruption, crime, and inequality into the mix and that argument will only get you so far.

    Like I said, it was a punishment vote. The Odebrecht case exposed a lot of corruption from the people in power at the time, the left wing of Brazil. It doesn't help that Brazil was also the country that benefited the most out of those bribes. Of course people were going to be angry at them, Brazil got tired of so much corruption.

    Going so far as to elect a fascist must mean they really resented that corruption. Let's hope for the best. It's rather sad.

    RockinX on
  • Options
    AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    Absalon on
  • Options
    ZythonZython Registered User regular
    So 55% of Brazil voted to wipe out the entire human race* because they hated trans people that much.

    *Just to cut this off at the pass, no, this isn't an exaggeration.

    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
  • Options
    FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    Zython wrote: »
    So 55% of Brazil voted to wipe out the entire human race* because they hated trans people that much.

    *Just to cut this off at the pass, no, this isn't an exaggeration.

    I thought it was the USA citizen who decided to wipe the entire human race because they hate brown people that much.

    And what you say, it is an exaggeration. In the same note it says that theres a national law that prevents deforestation and Bolsonaro doesnt have a majority of votes in Senate or Congress to change it. Yes, Bolsonaro is a horrible being and will try to do as much damage as possible because of a personal vendetta with an enviromentalist agency, probably cutting its funding as much as he is allowed to. STILL your incredible hyperbolic statement is wrong, just plain and simple alarmism.

    Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
  • Options
    ZythonZython Registered User regular
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    So 55% of Brazil voted to wipe out the entire human race* because they hated trans people that much.

    *Just to cut this off at the pass, no, this isn't an exaggeration.

    I thought it was the USA citizen who decided to wipe the entire human race because they hate brown people that much.

    And what you say, it is an exaggeration. In the same note it says that theres a national law that prevents deforestation and Bolsonaro doesnt have a majority of votes in Senate or Congress to change it. Yes, Bolsonaro is a horrible being and will try to do as much damage as possible because of a personal vendetta with an enviromentalist agency, probably cutting its funding as much as he is allowed to. STILL your incredible hyperbolic statement is wrong, just plain and simple alarmism.

    1. Who do you think has been backing and funding Bolsonaro?

    2. Do you really think Bolsonaro is going to care about petty things like legislatures and laws?

    3. We have less than 20 years before manmade climate change hits the point of no return in wiping out the human race, and deforestation of the Amazon will only serve to shorten that timeframe.

    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
  • Options
    NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    It's important for understanding why he came to power. It will not be important for what he does while in power.

  • Options
    vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Unfortunately, when you elect a fascist who has spoken approvingly of previous military dictatorships, it can be very difficult to un-elect them.

    WATCH THIS SPACE.
  • Options
    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Corruption under a fascist will make the left-wing's corruption look like child's play

    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • Options
    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • Options
    AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    Also, firing or marginalizing public employees, teachers, policemen and others who don't openly support Dear Leader is the very definition of corruption, but as we all know the first thing that dies is the dictionary.

  • Options
    NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Jephery wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Yes, and I acknowledged the difference here. "Drain the Swamp" wasn't following a multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption investigation in which multiple Democratic politicians, including a former two-term president, were arrested and convicted. My point being that there seems to be an effort here to ignore the agency of Brazilian voters because the outcome is unpopular outside of Brazil.

    NSDFRand on
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Yes, and I acknowledged the difference here. "Drain the Swamp" wasn't following a multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption investigation in which multiple Democratic politicians, including a former two-term president, were arrested and convicted. My point being that there seems to be an effort here to ignore the agency of Brazilian voters because the outcome is unpopular outside of Brazil.

    I don't see anyone not acknowledging it was a huge reason he won.

    I do see people pointing out that he won't actually tackle that corruption, will almost certainly be just as if not more corrupt and that he is unlikely to suffer any sort of major backlash for it.

    If his own "kick the bums out" election comes for him, it will be years down the road after mountains and mountains of corruption that just slid by.

  • Options
    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Yes, and I acknowledged the difference here. "Drain the Swamp" wasn't following a multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption investigation in which multiple Democratic politicians, including a former two-term president, were arrested and convicted. My point being that there seems to be an effort here to ignore the agency of Brazilian voters because the outcome is unpopular outside of Brazil.

    I don't see anyone not acknowledging it was a huge reason he won.

    I do see people pointing out that he won't actually tackle that corruption, will almost certainly be just as if not more corrupt and that he is unlikely to suffer any sort of major backlash for it.

    If his own "kick the bums out" election comes for him, it will be years down the road after mountains and mountains of corruption that just slid by.

    The man is engaged in genocidal rhetoric. The corruption is going to be the least of his crimes.

  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.

    Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.


    HE’S A BLOODY “LET’S CLEANSE THE DISSIDENTS” FASCIST!

    YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT “HOW DO WE WORK WITH THE FASCIST SO WE CAN TURN A PROFIT”


    But no Shryke please lecture us on how normal and proper and good this is. Perhaps after you can talk about the wonderful business policies of IBM and Volkswagen in the 30s and 40s

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Options
    NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Yes, and I acknowledged the difference here. "Drain the Swamp" wasn't following a multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption investigation in which multiple Democratic politicians, including a former two-term president, were arrested and convicted. My point being that there seems to be an effort here to ignore the agency of Brazilian voters because the outcome is unpopular outside of Brazil.

    I don't see anyone not acknowledging it was a huge reason he won.

    I do see people pointing out that he won't actually tackle that corruption, will almost certainly be just as if not more corrupt and that he is unlikely to suffer any sort of major backlash for it.

    If his own "kick the bums out" election comes for him, it will be years down the road after mountains and mountains of corruption that just slid by.

    That seems to be the implication of the post I quoted, that his supporters (voters) didn't actually care about government corruption despite what actual Brazilians (and others caught up in many of the same issues in the region) are saying.

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.

    Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.


    HE’S A BLOODY “LET’S CLEANSE THE DISSIDENTS” FASCIST!

    YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT “HOW DO WE WORK WITH THE FASCIST SO WE CAN TURN A PROFIT”


    But no Shryke please lecture us on how normal and proper and good this is. Perhaps after you can talk about the wonderful business policies of IBM and Volkswagen in the 30s and 40s

    What are you even talking about? You seem to be framing this as some sort of endorsement of his policies because ... I have no idea. Because you want to yell about this election result or something. Maybe reevaluate what you are actually arguing with because this response does not make sense.

    Regardless of what you think of his policies (hint: they are awful), it is true that the rest of the world will go on doing it's thing, resource extraction businesses will still exist and how they interact with Brazil because of this election will change. This is absolutely newsworthy information. Talking about it does not constitute endorsement of his ideas.

    shryke on
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Yes, and I acknowledged the difference here. "Drain the Swamp" wasn't following a multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption investigation in which multiple Democratic politicians, including a former two-term president, were arrested and convicted. My point being that there seems to be an effort here to ignore the agency of Brazilian voters because the outcome is unpopular outside of Brazil.

    I don't see anyone not acknowledging it was a huge reason he won.

    I do see people pointing out that he won't actually tackle that corruption, will almost certainly be just as if not more corrupt and that he is unlikely to suffer any sort of major backlash for it.

    If his own "kick the bums out" election comes for him, it will be years down the road after mountains and mountains of corruption that just slid by.

    That seems to be the implication of the post I quoted, that his supporters (voters) didn't actually care about government corruption despite what actual Brazilians (and others caught up in many of the same issues in the region) are saying.

    The implication is they don't care about corruption to the extent that it will effect their support for him. Which, as with Trump or the like, will be true for a large portion of his support.

    It is true that the current government's corruption is a big reason he won. It is also true that many people also like his ideas.

  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.

    Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.


    HE’S A BLOODY “LET’S CLEANSE THE DISSIDENTS” FASCIST!

    YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT “HOW DO WE WORK WITH THE FASCIST SO WE CAN TURN A PROFIT”


    But no Shryke please lecture us on how normal and proper and good this is. Perhaps after you can talk about the wonderful business policies of IBM and Volkswagen in the 30s and 40s

    What are you even talking about? You seem to be framing this as some sort of endorsement of his policies because ... I have no idea. Because you want to yell about this election result or something. Maybe reevaluate what you are actually arguing with because this response does not make sense.

    Regardless of what you think of his policies (hint: they are awful), it is true that the rest of the world will go on doing it's thing, resource extraction businesses will still exist and how they interact with Brazil because of this election will change. This is absolutely newsworthy information.

    ...

    I, and others, are suggesting it is perhaps a bad thing and an ill omen of the state of things, that as a country elects a fascist demagogue who has been pledging to cleanse the nation of political dissidents, of the LGBT community, has been calling for the days of the military dictatorship, as said military raids unoverisites and steals information about fascism from their collections, that a major, state-funded, Canadian BBC-equivalent news organization is talking about how Canada’s private industry might take advantage of the economic policies of Brazil by working alongside the Fascist-Dictator in waiting.


    My god shryke how fucking hard is this to comprehend? Are you just being willfully blind at this point? Like for fucks sake, this is the thing so many of us have been complaining about, this drive to normalize fascism in the industrialized world because taking a stand against it would mean the wealthy might not be able to make even more money than they already do.

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Options
    RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Absalon wrote: »
    Also, firing or marginalizing public employees, teachers, policemen and others who don't openly support Dear Leader is the very definition of corruption, but as we all know the first thing that dies is the dictionary.

    That reminds me so much of Venezuela, except that was left wing and Brazil is now right wing.

    Wasn't there a better, less crazy candidate for the right wing party? I mean, I've been looking up what drove Brazilians to elect this person, and I learned that the left pretty much had no chance of being elected, and that bolsonaro was not popular as much as people just didn't want a left wing candidate related to the previous presidents in power.

    According to my research, there is a real infrastructural issue that caused high prices and other huge problems to Brazilians that the government could have easily handled had they not been busy accepting bribes from Odebrecht, which itself was an engineering and construction company, which doesn't help at all.

    RockinX on
  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Like for fucks sake, Shryke, one of your fellow posters is talking about how they’re now essentially in exile and you’re fucking talking about “worlds gonna do what a world’s gonna do.”


    Goddamn hell.

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Yes, and I acknowledged the difference here. "Drain the Swamp" wasn't following a multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption investigation in which multiple Democratic politicians, including a former two-term president, were arrested and convicted. My point being that there seems to be an effort here to ignore the agency of Brazilian voters because the outcome is unpopular outside of Brazil.

    Fascism is typically popular with the voting majorities of nations that go fascist.


    “But they elected the facists!” Is not a useful ethical defense.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.

    Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.


    HE’S A BLOODY “LET’S CLEANSE THE DISSIDENTS” FASCIST!

    YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT “HOW DO WE WORK WITH THE FASCIST SO WE CAN TURN A PROFIT”


    But no Shryke please lecture us on how normal and proper and good this is. Perhaps after you can talk about the wonderful business policies of IBM and Volkswagen in the 30s and 40s

    What are you even talking about? You seem to be framing this as some sort of endorsement of his policies because ... I have no idea. Because you want to yell about this election result or something. Maybe reevaluate what you are actually arguing with because this response does not make sense.

    Regardless of what you think of his policies (hint: they are awful), it is true that the rest of the world will go on doing it's thing, resource extraction businesses will still exist and how they interact with Brazil because of this election will change. This is absolutely newsworthy information.

    ...

    I, and others, are suggesting it is perhaps a bad thing and an ill omen of the state of things, that as a country elects a fascist demagogue who has been pledging to cleanse the nation of political dissidents, of the LGBT community, has been calling for the days of the military dictatorship, as said military raids unoverisites and steals information about fascism from their collections, that a major, state-funded, Canadian BBC-equivalent news organization is talking about how Canada’s private industry might take advantage of the economic policies of Brazil by working alongside the Fascist-Dictator in waiting.


    My god shryke how fucking hard is this to comprehend? Are you just being willfully blind at this point? Like for fucks sake, this is the thing so many of us have been complaining about, this drive to normalize fascism in the industrialized world because taking a stand against it would mean the wealthy might not be able to make even more money than they already do.

    Again, you are trying to talk past the point just so you can yell. Find another strawman dude, I tire of this schtick.

    Your problem remains a seeming inability to comprehend that it is objectively factual and I would say absolutely newsworthy to talk about how this will change the economic prospects of the country that is reporting on it. None of this prevents articles talking about the other horrible shit he's done and lo, you can find those being reported on by the CBC too. But it's an article called "What a far-right Bolsonaro presidency in Brazil means for Canadian business" and how his election will effect Canadian businesses is absolutely of interest to Canadians and so is worthy of being reported on.

  • Options
    NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Yes, and I acknowledged the difference here. "Drain the Swamp" wasn't following a multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption investigation in which multiple Democratic politicians, including a former two-term president, were arrested and convicted. My point being that there seems to be an effort here to ignore the agency of Brazilian voters because the outcome is unpopular outside of Brazil.

    Fascism is typically popular with the voting majorities of nations that go fascist.


    “But they elected the facists!” Is not a useful ethical defense.

    I'm not making an ethical defense. I'm pushing back against what seems to be a narrative of voters in the "Global South" not having agency in this or that outsiders know their motivations better than they do. It's not just on this topic that I see it and push back against it and it's an attitude that plagues the international community, especially the "Global North", when talking about the politics and local contexts of others.

  • Options
    AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    "Are you calling X% percent of contry Y's population fascists?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?" is the de rigeur response for pro-fascist trolls.

    Compare this with "Are you calling everyone who supported Franco personally active, direct, conscious and utterly aware participants in physical abuse of children of socialists in state-run orphanages?!?!?!?!?!?!"

    Absalon on
  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Cross posting with the Fascism thread:




    Cause when a country elects a fascist talking about performing a cleansing of the indigenous and the left, the important thing is “how can business extract resources out of there?”

    Yeah, that's a pretty bizarre and uncharacteristic take for the CBC. I'm legitimately wondering what the hell they were thinking with that.

    They've updated!



    ... not much better.

    Eh, that now seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to look at.

    Narrator: It still wasn’t.
    For Canadian business, a Bolsonaro presidency could open new investment opportunities, especially in the resource sector, finance and infrastructure, as he has pledged to slash environmental regulations in the Amazon rainforest and privatize some government-owned companies.

    "It could be a good time to be a mining investor in Brazil," said Anna Prusa, a former U.S. State Department official who now researches Brazil at the Wilson Center, a Washington, D.C.-based think-tank. "Bolsonaro has said pretty publicly he would like fewer restrictions ... he is a recent convert to market liberalism."

    I mean, no, that's still perfectly fine. "New President believes in fewer regulations which opens up investment opportunities" is like, actually true and a thing worth being reported on. The article brings up at a few points the downsides (ie - environmental destruction) involved here.

    Regardless of whether you like the guy's environmental policies or not (note: he's a right-winger so they are horrible), a canadian news source reporting on how this election will impact the canadian economy is 100% newsworthy.


    HE’S A BLOODY “LET’S CLEANSE THE DISSIDENTS” FASCIST!

    YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT “HOW DO WE WORK WITH THE FASCIST SO WE CAN TURN A PROFIT”


    But no Shryke please lecture us on how normal and proper and good this is. Perhaps after you can talk about the wonderful business policies of IBM and Volkswagen in the 30s and 40s

    What are you even talking about? You seem to be framing this as some sort of endorsement of his policies because ... I have no idea. Because you want to yell about this election result or something. Maybe reevaluate what you are actually arguing with because this response does not make sense.

    Regardless of what you think of his policies (hint: they are awful), it is true that the rest of the world will go on doing it's thing, resource extraction businesses will still exist and how they interact with Brazil because of this election will change. This is absolutely newsworthy information.

    ...

    I, and others, are suggesting it is perhaps a bad thing and an ill omen of the state of things, that as a country elects a fascist demagogue who has been pledging to cleanse the nation of political dissidents, of the LGBT community, has been calling for the days of the military dictatorship, as said military raids unoverisites and steals information about fascism from their collections, that a major, state-funded, Canadian BBC-equivalent news organization is talking about how Canada’s private industry might take advantage of the economic policies of Brazil by working alongside the Fascist-Dictator in waiting.


    My god shryke how fucking hard is this to comprehend? Are you just being willfully blind at this point? Like for fucks sake, this is the thing so many of us have been complaining about, this drive to normalize fascism in the industrialized world because taking a stand against it would mean the wealthy might not be able to make even more money than they already do.

    Again, you are trying to talk past the point just so you can yell. Find another strawman dude, I tire of this schtick.

    Your problem remains a seeming inability to comprehend that it is objectively factual and I would say absolutely newsworthy to talk about how this will change the economic prospects of the country that is reporting on it. None of this prevents articles talking about the other horrible shit he's done and lo, you can find those being reported on by the CBC too. But it's an article called "What a far-right Bolsonaro presidency in Brazil means for Canadian business" and how his election will effect Canadian businesses is absolutely of interest to Canadians and so is worthy of being reported on.

    They literally quoted a former official from my government who said this could be a good time for mining investment! And themselves talked about this potentially opening up further investment “opportunities”!

    A journalistic entity is portraying fascists as acceptable business partners, Shryke.


    Am I taking fucking crazy pills?!

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    Crime and corruption will absolutely go up. Crime will go up because Jair's policies will make an honest living less attractive and will make it less likely that poor people believe in social mobility. The politicization of the police and their increased levels of unchecked violence will also descrease faith in the rule of law. Corruption will go up because the first rule of fascism is to accuse your opponents of what you want to do, and also because his supporters don't actually care about corruption and they won't be willing to admit they deified a bad person.

    This is not a case of a populist coming into office on vague promises to "drain the swamp", this is a populist coming to power on the back of an actual multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption scandal involving the major leftist party which has been in power for more than a decade and was directly at the center of it. It is very likely, as has been pointed out by other posters from the region, that many Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro did so because of this scandal involving the Worker's Party.

    This seems to either be unknown, forgotten, or (wrongly) dismissed as unimportant when analyzing this situation and it shouldn't be.

    Getting a specific corrupt party out of government is exactly what "drain the swamp" means though.

    Like when Trump and the Republicans use "drain the swamp", they mean getting rid of Democrats and putting in Republicans.

    Yes, and I acknowledged the difference here. "Drain the Swamp" wasn't following a multi-year multi-billion dollar corruption investigation in which multiple Democratic politicians, including a former two-term president, were arrested and convicted. My point being that there seems to be an effort here to ignore the agency of Brazilian voters because the outcome is unpopular outside of Brazil.

    Fascism is typically popular with the voting majorities of nations that go fascist.


    “But they elected the facists!” Is not a useful ethical defense.

    I'm not making an ethical defense. I'm pushing back against what seems to be a narrative of voters in the "Global South" not having agency in this or that outsiders know their motivations better than they do. It's not just on this topic that I see it and push back against it and it's an attitude that plagues the international community, especially the "Global North", when talking about the politics and local contexts of others.

    This seems a silly read on the whole situation since people say the same shit about countries in the "Global North" too. Like France. Or the US.

Sign In or Register to comment.