I'm old as hell too but I enjoy Smash. I didn't play the first since I went Sony that generation but I've played them all since then
For me I like it because it's a super approachable fighting game that anyone can pick up and enjoy. The lack of memorizing movesets makes it fun even if someone has no clue what they are doing. Nostalgia is a factor, sure, but more that I feel that way towards the characters, not the actual game of Smash itself.
imo learning what all your hold/tilt/directionals/etc moves are for smash is basically the same as learning movelists for a SF style game
it may seem more approachable than "learning a hadouken motion" but your characters in smash are basically just as movelist versatile as any other fighting game
i don't really consider there to be any difference in clueless play between the two styles, other than a clueless smash player having a lot more freedom to run around, rather than just back up or run forward
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
A thought that occurred to me earlier was that Sakurai directs each of these games as if it will be the last Smash he's ever in charge of, and the effect of that direction is felt more sharply in each entry from Brawl onward. Smash Ultimate is the apotheosis of this ethos; it is everything and the kitchen sink, in that SSBU has as much as they can cram in while still being able to keep it polished to a level of quality in keeping with their vision.
Sakurai said some time ago that Ultimate represented literally as much as could be reasonably put into one game of this kind, and that future installments would need to be scaled back just as a matter of practicality. And you know what? I believe that. The further along we get, the more resource-intensive each individual fighter is, and the more difficult it is to build individuals from scratch or balance around them. Smash can't keep growing forever; at some point, just for the sake of being made, it needs to contract, however temporarily.
So that got me to thinking, too. Suppose that you know that the Smash that comes out for the Switch's successor will be reduced in scale (but this will be compensated for in some way, like all characters being redesigned from the ground up, visually or mechanically or however you please).
How small a roster would you be OK with having in that particular game?
If you had your druthers, how would you dictate what characters are included? How do you handle series representation? Individual characters per series? Third parties? New vs old?
Would you be willing to cut one or even more of the original 12?
I'm curious about y'all's takes on that
I do think people are far too precious about "the original twelve," I would definitely cut Jigglypuff, who didn't even feel relevant at the time of release and feels more grandfathered in at this point.
But I would also do something really weird, like I have this idea for a Double Dash-style Smash entry, where everyone is an Ice Climbers-esque pair: Mario/Luigi, Link/Zelda, Pikachu/Eevee, Kirby/Rick, Peach/Toad, Bowser/Bowser Jr, Samus/Baby Metroid, Sonic/Tails, Rosalina/Luma, Olimar/Pikmin, etc. Some half-clones as unlockables, like Mario/Yoshi and Zelda/Impa
I would also change the in-game artstyle to be more similar to the Smash 64 boxart
I think Smash is easily the most accessible fighting game because it at least FEELS like you're doing something, and you can do most of the characters' moves right from the jump, and you already have characters you're interested in because there's not a person in the world who doesn't know at least ONE character in the game
A thought that occurred to me earlier was that Sakurai directs each of these games as if it will be the last Smash he's ever in charge of, and the effect of that direction is felt more sharply in each entry from Brawl onward. Smash Ultimate is the apotheosis of this ethos; it is everything and the kitchen sink, in that SSBU has as much as they can cram in while still being able to keep it polished to a level of quality in keeping with their vision.
Sakurai said some time ago that Ultimate represented literally as much as could be reasonably put into one game of this kind, and that future installments would need to be scaled back just as a matter of practicality. And you know what? I believe that. The further along we get, the more resource-intensive each individual fighter is, and the more difficult it is to build individuals from scratch or balance around them. Smash can't keep growing forever; at some point, just for the sake of being made, it needs to contract, however temporarily.
So that got me to thinking, too. Suppose that you know that the Smash that comes out for the Switch's successor will be reduced in scale (but this will be compensated for in some way, like all characters being redesigned from the ground up, visually or mechanically or however you please).
How small a roster would you be OK with having in that particular game?
If you had your druthers, how would you dictate what characters are included? How do you handle series representation? Individual characters per series? Third parties? New vs old?
Would you be willing to cut one or even more of the original 12?
I'm curious about y'all's takes on that
Drop literally everyone who has been in Ultimate. Fresh start, all new roster.
I will sacrifice Samus, my number one lady for all time, for this conviction. Only when you have slaughtered every sacred cow, when you can truly let the past be the past, can you create something truly new.
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
Oh and Piranha Plant/Goomba or something
Actually, if building the roster from the ground up, I'd want more weird choices like Piranha
I also want a one-off game that is all sidekicks, like Luigi, Tails, etc but no Mario
Or one that's all villains
Or one that swaps the assist trophies and main roster, mainly so I can play as Bomberman
In 64 I played Link or Pikachu. In Melee and Brawl I played exclusively Ice Climbers. In Smash 4 I played Wii Fit Trainer or Robin but I didn't play Smash 4 all that often.
Only one I played consistently enough to have a main was Brawl, and I mained Metaknight because he was Kirby with a sword.
Certainly had nothing to do with the fact that he was the only character good enough to let me even remotely keep up with the intense no items final destination players that lived in my dorm.
A thought that occurred to me earlier was that Sakurai directs each of these games as if it will be the last Smash he's ever in charge of, and the effect of that direction is felt more sharply in each entry from Brawl onward. Smash Ultimate is the apotheosis of this ethos; it is everything and the kitchen sink, in that SSBU has as much as they can cram in while still being able to keep it polished to a level of quality in keeping with their vision.
Sakurai said some time ago that Ultimate represented literally as much as could be reasonably put into one game of this kind, and that future installments would need to be scaled back just as a matter of practicality. And you know what? I believe that. The further along we get, the more resource-intensive each individual fighter is, and the more difficult it is to build individuals from scratch or balance around them. Smash can't keep growing forever; at some point, just for the sake of being made, it needs to contract, however temporarily.
So that got me to thinking, too. Suppose that you know that the Smash that comes out for the Switch's successor will be reduced in scale (but this will be compensated for in some way, like all characters being redesigned from the ground up, visually or mechanically or however you please).
How small a roster would you be OK with having in that particular game?
If you had your druthers, how would you dictate what characters are included? How do you handle series representation? Individual characters per series? Third parties? New vs old?
Would you be willing to cut one or even more of the original 12?
I'm curious about y'all's takes on that
Cutting characters from the 64 roster isn't very difficult. Jigglypuff hasn't been particularly relevant in a while, and both Ness and Captain Falcon haven't had any games in over a decade.
If I were to make a "realistic" cut-down roster from the current one, well:
01 Mario
02 Donkey Kong
03 Link
04 Samus
05 Yoshi
06 Kirby
07 Fox
08 Pikachu
09 Luigi
13 Peach
14 Bowser
17 Zelda
30 Wario
40 Olimar
45 Villager
Add third-party characters as discussions allow, the protagonists of the newest few Fire Emblem games, and a current-gen Pokémon or two. (A current-gen Pokémon Trainer might work as a concept.)
If you haven't gotten a game in a decade and aren't a beloved mascot, you get cut. Luigi only gets saved by virtue of promoting Luigi's Mansion, or else I'd cut down the Mario representation to just Mario/Peach/Bowser. Ganondorf got cut by absenteeism but you could probably squeeze in a Ganon?
I still can't see them doing this, though, because that cuts a lot of fan favorites (Ness!) just for the sake of bringing the character count down to 15ish.
if you had to have a wildly different take on Smash, I would want them to pursue the route of having it be a crossover of the history of games, rather than just Nintendo, which they already do a lot of
take existing roster characters that are historically significant, add in new ones, and then group them by decade of origin, which would result like this
1970s
01 Pac-Man
02 Pitfall Harry
03 Professor Atari [a composition character of Atari games like a Pong paddle and a Combat tank]
04 Space Invader
05 Zork Adventurer
1980s
06 Donkey Kong
07 Duck Hunt
08 Link
09 Mario
10 Mega Man
11 Mr. Game & Watch
12 Ryu / Ken
13 Snake
14 Tetris Piece
1990s
15 Cloud
16 Crash Bandicoot
17 Doom Guy / BJ Blazkowicz
18 Lara Croft
19 Pokemon Trainer
20 Ryo Hazuki
21 Sonic
22 Scorpion / Sub Zero
2000s
23 Geralt of Rivia
24 Marcus Fenix
25 Master Chief
26 - 28 Mii Fighters
29 Minecraft Steve
30 Nathan Drake
31 Phoenix Wright
32 Yu Narukami
JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
Oh another thought would be every character reflecting a different game
They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)
Oh another thought would be every character reflecting a different game
They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)
They already have Yoshi's Island Yoshi and Luigi's Mansion 3 Luigi, no need to change that. Especially since SMW Yoshi doesn't have much going on, and he's in representing his own series these days.
SMO Mario and Samus Returns Samus would also make more sense, I think?
I think Smash is easily the most accessible fighting game because it at least FEELS like you're doing something, and you can do most of the characters' moves right from the jump, and you already have characters you're interested in because there's not a person in the world who doesn't know at least ONE character in the game
I'm going to play smash with my 6 year old and it will be the best time because he'll be able to button mash and knock me out with his favorite character, Luigi.
Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
Oh another thought would be every character reflecting a different game
They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)
They already have Yoshi's Island Yoshi and Luigi's Mansion 3 Luigi, no need to change that. Especially since SMW Yoshi doesn't have much going on, and he's in representing his own series these days.
SMO Mario and Samus Returns Samus would also make more sense, I think?
That’s definitely not YI Yoshi, just going by the voice and stature. It’s maybe Yoshi’s Story Yoshi but is more of a composite, like most of the characters in the roster
I’m trying to propose something more specific and not necessarily as most-recent-game focused
Give me the weirdness of NES Pit (like the Melee trophy) alongside Uprising Dark Pit
Sonic Generations but for everyone
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
A thought that occurred to me earlier was that Sakurai directs each of these games as if it will be the last Smash he's ever in charge of, and the effect of that direction is felt more sharply in each entry from Brawl onward. Smash Ultimate is the apotheosis of this ethos; it is everything and the kitchen sink, in that SSBU has as much as they can cram in while still being able to keep it polished to a level of quality in keeping with their vision.
Sakurai said some time ago that Ultimate represented literally as much as could be reasonably put into one game of this kind, and that future installments would need to be scaled back just as a matter of practicality. And you know what? I believe that. The further along we get, the more resource-intensive each individual fighter is, and the more difficult it is to build individuals from scratch or balance around them. Smash can't keep growing forever; at some point, just for the sake of being made, it needs to contract, however temporarily.
So that got me to thinking, too. Suppose that you know that the Smash that comes out for the Switch's successor will be reduced in scale (but this will be compensated for in some way, like all characters being redesigned from the ground up, visually or mechanically or however you please).
How small a roster would you be OK with having in that particular game?
If you had your druthers, how would you dictate what characters are included? How do you handle series representation? Individual characters per series? Third parties? New vs old?
Would you be willing to cut one or even more of the original 12?
I'm curious about y'all's takes on that
Tch!!! Smash fans!!! Always banning and cutting!!!
But to take the question with seriousness befitting how it's been presented, my directorial strategy would be to go all-in on the Echo Fighter concept. Models are expensive to make, admittedly, but I think you still get a savings on dev time by compressing characters in that way. However, I'd make sure that the Echoes all had statistical differences on the level of a light smattering of custom parts, and the special moves would be parameterized to Hell and back to make each Echo feel unique.
Examples:
- Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi are the same character. Mario's fsmash uses fire, Luigi uses lightning, Wario uses his whole fist, and Waluigi pulls out a bobomb. They all have a spin for down-B, but Mario's is a short hop, Luigi's rises, Wario's spins in place, and Waluigi's lunges forward.
- Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Fusion Suit Samus, and Dark Samus are now the same character. ZSS has more of a Justin Bailey look.
- Ness, Lucas, Paula, and Kumatora are now the same character.
- Stick all the Marths in the same slot. Throw Eirika and Lyn in for good measure.
And so on. If necessary, use a small icon on the CSS to show the major statistical differences e.g. if you swap to Luigi from Mario, icons show you that he's faster but lighter than Mario.
I think that would be the best compromise in terms of keeping characters around while reducing the gameplay-development workload. (Admittedly, this might be saving resources on the cheap thing while expanding the role of the expensive thing.)
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
Wii Fit Trainer getting in one more rep before the inevitable was real good.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Personally I love Captain Falcon trying to get in his car to drive away but gets incinerated before he even gets in.
Coran Attack!
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
My favorite was snake just hiding in his fucking box.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Oh another thought would be every character reflecting a different game
They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)
They already have Yoshi's Island Yoshi and Luigi's Mansion 3 Luigi, no need to change that. Especially since SMW Yoshi doesn't have much going on, and he's in representing his own series these days.
SMO Mario and Samus Returns Samus would also make more sense, I think?
That’s definitely not YI Yoshi, just going by the voice and stature. It’s maybe Yoshi’s Story Yoshi but is more of a composite, like most of the characters in the roster
I’m trying to propose something more specific and not necessarily as most-recent-game focused
Give me the weirdness of NES Pit (like the Melee trophy) alongside Uprising Dark Pit
Sonic Generations but for everyone
My specific problem with Super Mario World Yoshi is that he's pretty different - no flutter hover, no egg throwing, just a dumb dinosaur with a tongue and maybe fire breath/wings/ earthquake stomps depending on what Koopa they eat. It's first with Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island that the Yoshis actually get shit.
Much like how, say, original Luigi is just green Mario or OG Kirby can't copy abilities. Yoshi changes a lot between those two games.
Also, if you want a Mario that is recognizably a Specific Mario and not just whoever then you're probably best off with Super Mario Sunshine since you can replace all his special with assorted F.L.U.D.D. stuff?
My favorite was snake just hiding in his fucking box.
Snake canonically finds being in the box very calming, so it's presumably just him trying to find some peace before he dies.
...Or he's trying to hide and hoping they don't find him. Either or, really.
I'm not here to complain about you guys who love the game. I'm trying to understand the interest.
I've played games since Atari2600. I loved fighting games, especially the Capcom series of SF/Crossover games. But when Smash first came out, I just couldnt get into it. it seemed like too simple a game with only two attack buttons, and no 'motions' to trigger specials. I've tried various other smashes as the years passed but still couldnt get into it. I also think my particular gaming generation was a bit out of touch when these games came out, so it was never the nostaligic thing it was for many people.
So I have to wonder, how much is your love for smash just 'because thats what i grew up with', and how much is 'because its an amazing game with deep gameplay'.
Okay, so academically, all fighting games share a sort of core loop, which is something like
Struggle for good positioning > Land a solid hit > Attempt to follow up from an advantageous position > Repeat
For most traditional fighting games, this is utterly opaque to me. The movement is stilted and awkward. The motions are hard to do consistently. The margin of error on combo strings is miniscule. Like, I go for a jab or whatever. I have a couple of frames to recognize whether it hit or not. If it hits I want to go onto X sequence of combo attacks, every one of which will fail if I'm more than a frame or two off. If the initial jab is blocked I want to go into totally different attack sequence Y to apply block pressure, which will likewise fail and get me hit if I'm more than a frame or two off. What actually happens is I can't process fast enough and I just get flustered and end up flailing erratically. There's so much rote muscle memory that needs to be built up before you can even BEGIN to engage with the game's real depth in an even vaguely meaningful way.
In Smash, the movement is so fluid and natural. The attacks are so simple and intuitive. I'm going for this one hit. If it's blocked I'll block or evade. If it hits they'll go flying and I'll have (comparatively speaking) all the time in the world to land another single discrete follow-up hit or maneuver myself into a position I think is advantageous. I immediately understand what I'm doing and what my options are, so I actually CAN participate in the depth that comes from figuring out positioning and pressure and mindgames. It's the only fighting game where that's ever been true for me.
That analysis is probably kind of reductive on both sides but I think it gets my point across.
Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
edited November 2018
Brie Larson dressed as Samus for Halloween. Does Instagram imbed? Let’s find out:
Whose WFT was it that gave me so much trouble back in 4
I know Wyvern's ROB, Speed's Yoshi or Mario, Gundi's Duck Hunt, chiasaur's Robin, Chopper Dave's Mega Man, somebody's Samus, Sterica's Dedede.... God, WFT might have been Wyvern's too, she used to kick the shit out of me up and down the street every time we had a tourney
Wyborn on
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Werewolf2000adSuckers, I know exactly what went wrong.Registered Userregular
I'm not here to complain about you guys who love the game. I'm trying to understand the interest.
I've played games since Atari2600. I loved fighting games, especially the Capcom series of SF/Crossover games. But when Smash first came out, I just couldnt get into it. it seemed like too simple a game with only two attack buttons, and no 'motions' to trigger specials. I've tried various other smashes as the years passed but still couldnt get into it. I also think my particular gaming generation was a bit out of touch when these games came out, so it was never the nostaligic thing it was for many people.
So I have to wonder, how much is your love for smash just 'because thats what i grew up with', and how much is 'because its an amazing game with deep gameplay'.
Okay, so academically, all fighting games share a sort of core loop, which is something like
Struggle for good positioning > Land a solid hit > Attempt to follow up from an advantageous position > Repeat
For most traditional fighting games, this is utterly opaque to me. The movement is stilted and awkward. The motions are hard to do consistently. The margin of error on combo strings is miniscule. Like, I go for a jab or whatever. I have a couple of frames to recognize whether it hit or not. If it hits I want to go onto X sequence of combo attacks, every one of which will fail if I'm more than a frame or two off. If the initial jab is blocked I want to go into totally different attack sequence Y to apply block pressure, which will likewise fail and get me hit if I'm more than a frame or two off. What actually happens is I can't process fast enough and I just get flustered and end up flailing erratically. There's so much rote muscle memory that needs to be built up before you can even BEGIN to engage with the game's real depth in an even vaguely meaningful way.
In Smash, the movement is so fluid and natural. The attacks are so simple and intuitive. I'm going for this one hit. If it's blocked I'll block or evade. If it hits they'll go flying and I'll have (comparatively speaking) all the time in the world to land another single discrete follow-up hit or maneuver myself into a position I think is advantageous. I immediately understand what I'm doing and what my options are, so I actually CAN participate in the depth that comes from figuring out positioning and pressure and mindgames. It's the only fighting game where that's ever been true for me.
That analysis is probably kind of reductive on both sides but I think it gets my point across.
THIS. I'm reminded of the fantastic metaphor I saw recently in the comments on a YouTube fighting game video: Learning to play modern fighting games is like trying to learn guitar by someone showing you what strings and frets are, then immediately locking you in a room to play duels against Steve Vai.
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For me I like it because it's a super approachable fighting game that anyone can pick up and enjoy. The lack of memorizing movesets makes it fun even if someone has no clue what they are doing. Nostalgia is a factor, sure, but more that I feel that way towards the characters, not the actual game of Smash itself.
it may seem more approachable than "learning a hadouken motion" but your characters in smash are basically just as movelist versatile as any other fighting game
i don't really consider there to be any difference in clueless play between the two styles, other than a clueless smash player having a lot more freedom to run around, rather than just back up or run forward
I do think people are far too precious about "the original twelve," I would definitely cut Jigglypuff, who didn't even feel relevant at the time of release and feels more grandfathered in at this point.
But I would also do something really weird, like I have this idea for a Double Dash-style Smash entry, where everyone is an Ice Climbers-esque pair: Mario/Luigi, Link/Zelda, Pikachu/Eevee, Kirby/Rick, Peach/Toad, Bowser/Bowser Jr, Samus/Baby Metroid, Sonic/Tails, Rosalina/Luma, Olimar/Pikmin, etc. Some half-clones as unlockables, like Mario/Yoshi and Zelda/Impa
I would also change the in-game artstyle to be more similar to the Smash 64 boxart
Drop literally everyone who has been in Ultimate. Fresh start, all new roster.
Actually, if building the roster from the ground up, I'd want more weird choices like Piranha
I also want a one-off game that is all sidekicks, like Luigi, Tails, etc but no Mario
Or one that's all villains
Or one that swaps the assist trophies and main roster, mainly so I can play as Bomberman
Maybe a Fox-clone, a Marth-clone and a Link-clone
Those are the ones I'm most familiar with
Maybe Incineroar, but I need to see how he feels first
Certainly had nothing to do with the fact that he was the only character good enough to let me even remotely keep up with the intense no items final destination players that lived in my dorm.
in Dragon Ball FighterZ, it's Cell
and in Smash, it's the cursed Diddy Kong
Cutting characters from the 64 roster isn't very difficult. Jigglypuff hasn't been particularly relevant in a while, and both Ness and Captain Falcon haven't had any games in over a decade.
If I were to make a "realistic" cut-down roster from the current one, well:
02 Donkey Kong
03 Link
04 Samus
05 Yoshi
06 Kirby
07 Fox
08 Pikachu
09 Luigi
13 Peach
14 Bowser
17 Zelda
30 Wario
40 Olimar
45 Villager
Add third-party characters as discussions allow, the protagonists of the newest few Fire Emblem games, and a current-gen Pokémon or two. (A current-gen Pokémon Trainer might work as a concept.)
If you haven't gotten a game in a decade and aren't a beloved mascot, you get cut. Luigi only gets saved by virtue of promoting Luigi's Mansion, or else I'd cut down the Mario representation to just Mario/Peach/Bowser. Ganondorf got cut by absenteeism but you could probably squeeze in a Ganon?
Makes sense Diddy Kong and Cell are basically the same character.
take existing roster characters that are historically significant, add in new ones, and then group them by decade of origin, which would result like this
01 Pac-Man
02 Pitfall Harry
03 Professor Atari [a composition character of Atari games like a Pong paddle and a Combat tank]
04 Space Invader
05 Zork Adventurer
1980s
06 Donkey Kong
07 Duck Hunt
08 Link
09 Mario
10 Mega Man
11 Mr. Game & Watch
12 Ryu / Ken
13 Snake
14 Tetris Piece
1990s
15 Cloud
16 Crash Bandicoot
17 Doom Guy / BJ Blazkowicz
18 Lara Croft
19 Pokemon Trainer
20 Ryo Hazuki
21 Sonic
22 Scorpion / Sub Zero
2000s
23 Geralt of Rivia
24 Marcus Fenix
25 Master Chief
26 - 28 Mii Fighters
29 Minecraft Steve
30 Nathan Drake
31 Phoenix Wright
32 Yu Narukami
2010s
33 2B
34 Cuphead / Mugman
35 Dovahkiin
36 Gomez (Fez)
37 Inklings
38 Max Caulfield
39 Shovel Knight
40 Wanderer (Journey)
They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)
Extend that to the rest of the cast
SMW Yoshi, Fusion Samus, SMB3 Mario, Galaxy Luigi, etc
They already have Yoshi's Island Yoshi and Luigi's Mansion 3 Luigi, no need to change that. Especially since SMW Yoshi doesn't have much going on, and he's in representing his own series these days.
SMO Mario and Samus Returns Samus would also make more sense, I think?
I'm going to play smash with my 6 year old and it will be the best time because he'll be able to button mash and knock me out with his favorite character, Luigi.
That’s definitely not YI Yoshi, just going by the voice and stature. It’s maybe Yoshi’s Story Yoshi but is more of a composite, like most of the characters in the roster
I’m trying to propose something more specific and not necessarily as most-recent-game focused
Give me the weirdness of NES Pit (like the Melee trophy) alongside Uprising Dark Pit
Sonic Generations but for everyone
My favorite is Bayonetta never breaks kayfabe and is still smiling as she gets hit
Tch!!! Smash fans!!! Always banning and cutting!!!
But to take the question with seriousness befitting how it's been presented, my directorial strategy would be to go all-in on the Echo Fighter concept. Models are expensive to make, admittedly, but I think you still get a savings on dev time by compressing characters in that way. However, I'd make sure that the Echoes all had statistical differences on the level of a light smattering of custom parts, and the special moves would be parameterized to Hell and back to make each Echo feel unique.
Examples:
- Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi are the same character. Mario's fsmash uses fire, Luigi uses lightning, Wario uses his whole fist, and Waluigi pulls out a bobomb. They all have a spin for down-B, but Mario's is a short hop, Luigi's rises, Wario's spins in place, and Waluigi's lunges forward.
- Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Fusion Suit Samus, and Dark Samus are now the same character. ZSS has more of a Justin Bailey look.
- Ness, Lucas, Paula, and Kumatora are now the same character.
- Stick all the Marths in the same slot. Throw Eirika and Lyn in for good measure.
And so on. If necessary, use a small icon on the CSS to show the major statistical differences e.g. if you swap to Luigi from Mario, icons show you that he's faster but lighter than Mario.
I think that would be the best compromise in terms of keeping characters around while reducing the gameplay-development workload. (Admittedly, this might be saving resources on the cheap thing while expanding the role of the expensive thing.)
Coran Attack!
My specific problem with Super Mario World Yoshi is that he's pretty different - no flutter hover, no egg throwing, just a dumb dinosaur with a tongue and maybe fire breath/wings/ earthquake stomps depending on what Koopa they eat. It's first with Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island that the Yoshis actually get shit.
Much like how, say, original Luigi is just green Mario or OG Kirby can't copy abilities. Yoshi changes a lot between those two games.
Also, if you want a Mario that is recognizably a Specific Mario and not just whoever then you're probably best off with Super Mario Sunshine since you can replace all his special with assorted F.L.U.D.D. stuff?
I thought smash was real, like wrestling, but it turns out it's fake, like boxing!
Was he in the box? There wasn't a ! or anything...
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
yes you do, which is good because it's the only thing that allows me to beat you half the time
...Or he's trying to hide and hoping they don't find him. Either or, really.
Fun little easter eggs.
Struggle for good positioning > Land a solid hit > Attempt to follow up from an advantageous position > Repeat
For most traditional fighting games, this is utterly opaque to me. The movement is stilted and awkward. The motions are hard to do consistently. The margin of error on combo strings is miniscule. Like, I go for a jab or whatever. I have a couple of frames to recognize whether it hit or not. If it hits I want to go onto X sequence of combo attacks, every one of which will fail if I'm more than a frame or two off. If the initial jab is blocked I want to go into totally different attack sequence Y to apply block pressure, which will likewise fail and get me hit if I'm more than a frame or two off. What actually happens is I can't process fast enough and I just get flustered and end up flailing erratically. There's so much rote muscle memory that needs to be built up before you can even BEGIN to engage with the game's real depth in an even vaguely meaningful way.
In Smash, the movement is so fluid and natural. The attacks are so simple and intuitive. I'm going for this one hit. If it's blocked I'll block or evade. If it hits they'll go flying and I'll have (comparatively speaking) all the time in the world to land another single discrete follow-up hit or maneuver myself into a position I think is advantageous. I immediately understand what I'm doing and what my options are, so I actually CAN participate in the depth that comes from figuring out positioning and pressure and mindgames. It's the only fighting game where that's ever been true for me.
That analysis is probably kind of reductive on both sides but I think it gets my point across.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I know Wyvern's ROB, Speed's Yoshi or Mario, Gundi's Duck Hunt, chiasaur's Robin, Chopper Dave's Mega Man, somebody's Samus, Sterica's Dedede.... God, WFT might have been Wyvern's too, she used to kick the shit out of me up and down the street every time we had a tourney
THIS. I'm reminded of the fantastic metaphor I saw recently in the comments on a YouTube fighting game video: Learning to play modern fighting games is like trying to learn guitar by someone showing you what strings and frets are, then immediately locking you in a room to play duels against Steve Vai.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!