Also once you move past 8-bit art I think all bets are off. No one criticizes 16-bit-or-up artwork for not sticking to the constraints of that era, because they are much less defined to the point of being imperceptible to anyone who isn't a Genesis coder etc.
Like who is going to look at a 16-bit style game and say, "there's no way those old CPUs could've processed these 800 particles at once! They were limited to 512 objects on screen at max!" Nobody knows this. Nobody is going to count this.
Whereas the NES could not handle more than 8 sprites on any given horizontal line before it had to start flickering. NES sprites tended to be 3 colors with the 4th reserved for transparency. It's really easy to tell when someone isn't following the constraints.
Inmost and Double Kick Heroes from the Highlights video is what I'd like to see a bit more of when it comes to these games. Still pixel based, but they look distinctive.
When a game actually looks good, like Hyper Light Drifter, Iconoclasts, or Owlboy, I don't mind the pixel art. That's not the lazy pseudo-8bit stuff I'm tired of. It's some pretty high effort pixel art.
Please don't take this post as an endorsement of Owlboy.
After reading all of your points I think I actually agree with you guys. I pass over most pixel art games that don't stand out as having a different look, or doing it in a particularly great way. There are just a lot that have done it very well, but I guess I forgot that there are even more that do it blandly.
And yes, Owlboy looks incredible, but is a boring and pretty bad game.
I'm pretty lucky in that as long as the game has great music and/or gameplay then I'm happy. It can be pseudo 8bit or whatever the hell it wants to be.
I'm a sucker for good music in games. Sometimes that's what keeps me going more than anything else (Rogue Legacy had some INCREDIBLE music).
Also once you move past 8-bit art I think all bets are off. No one criticizes 16-bit-or-up artwork for not sticking to the constraints of that era, because they are much less defined to the point of being imperceptible to anyone who isn't a Genesis coder etc.
Like who is going to look at a 16-bit style game and say, "there's no way those old CPUs could've processed these 800 particles at once! They were limited to 512 objects on screen at max!" Nobody knows this. Nobody is going to count this.
Whereas the NES could not handle more than 8 sprites on any given horizontal line before it had to start flickering. NES sprites tended to be 3 colors with the 4th reserved for transparency. It's really easy to tell when someone isn't following the constraints.
I wonder if there will be, in some dark corner of the internet, a similar discussion about the upcoming wave of 90s FPS (strafe, dusk etc).
"Well, there is no way you could render that on a 486!"
"Actually, the Pentium overdrive would do that, but only on 256MB RAM, which was TECHNICALLY not commonly available until well into 2000s".
"Fake 90s! graphics rip-off....."
0
Options
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Pixel art used to be a positive in my book, but now we’re at the point where if you say “indie game” you may as well say “pixel art game”.
Pixel art still ain’t a negative to me, it is more of a neutral.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Shovel Knight has some pretty darned good looking pixel art, IMO
I'm not really a fan of pixels just for the sake of pixels, though. I can't get myself interested in Crypt of the Necrodancer, for instance, because I do not like the style they've chosen for their pixels.
I think one of the coolest art styles being explored in modern games is when they use large areas of single color (but with enough detail where necessary). Sort of minimalist and/or considering negative space. Gris, Hyper Light Drifter, Sword and Sorcery. Or in the 3D space look at Journey, or Donkey Kong's silhouette levels.
It's something that wasn't explored much previously on purpose because for many years it was a competition to do more and more complex and detailed graphics, there was no time to explore being more stylized. It was all about pushing more objects in motion and getting closer to realism. Some of the few games I would say went for that style intentionally back then were Kirby and Gimmick, and even then it was more "cartoon" than "minimalist."
So it generally feels like a more refreshing take in the gaming landscape.
Shovel Knight has some pretty darned good looking pixel art, IMO
I'm not really a fan of pixels just for the sake of pixels, though. I can't get myself interested in Crypt of the Necrodancer, for instance, because I do not like the style they've chosen for their pixels.
Shovel Knight is one of the games that is 8-bit inspired that does it right. It's extremely high quality and they didn't use pixel art as an excuse to make it look low quality. It mimics the look of the NES and is extremely high quality art. You can tell what is what and the characters have actual features you can follow. Shovel Knight is so good guys. :heartbeat:
WarGroove is first, a turn based strategy game for up to 4 players. Similar to Advanced Wars or other 'Risk'-like games. Comes out February 1st and you can preorder now.
Double Kick Heroes, 'a unique metal rhythm shooter' coming in Summer of 2019, trailer looks like a fast paced Plants vs Zombies with some rhythm elements thrown in, killer soundtrack. It is current in Early Access on Steam as well.
Then comes When Ski Lifts Go Wrong, out now. It's a 3D builder/lemmings type game where you create structures for skiers to get across gaps and perform jumps. Similar to other bridge builder games out now.
Next is Forager, it looks similar to Stardew Valley, more pixelated graphics and with a larger focus on the combat and fighting instead of farming. "A 2D open world game, start small and build your base the way you want to." Coming soon.
Then Goat Simulator GOTY, you probably know what Goat Simulator is. Out Now.
Inmost is another 2D adventure-adventure game with a focus in shading instead of bright colors. I personally think it looks really cool, but the trailer doesn't tell you too much about the gameplay itself. It could be a horror game, it could be an action game. The presentation just looks rad. Coming 2019. "Follow three characters in one interconnected dark story, as atmospheric puzzle platformer comes first to Nintendo Switch."
Unruly Heroes is next, out now. A similar gamestyle to Trine with swapping characters, but with the art style of Ori or other hand-drawn 2D games. It's very colorful and has local/online multiplayer. It looks very pretty.
Crosscode coming to Nintendo Switch in 2019. Out now on Steam and is really dope. Check it out.
Next is Image&Form's next Steamworld game called Steamworld Quest: Hand of Gilgamech, it's a tactics fighting game similar to Darkest Dungeon but utilizes card-based turn combat instead of the more traditional skill-based RPG fighting. Looks very cool but I'm unfamiliar with Steamworld games. Out in 2019.
Finally is a highlight reel of stuff already out on Switch. Hollow Knight, Stardew Valley, Celeste, Overcooked! 2, Wizard of Legend, Dead Cells, Darkest Dungeon, Owlboy, Firewatch, Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom, FAST RMX, Gris, Shovel Knight, Undertale, Donut County, The Messenger, Into the Breach, The Binding of Isaac, Enter the Gungeon, and Human: Fall Flat.
Can the UK team do all of these from now on? The intro and outro, transitions between games and whatnot just felt smoother than previous Nindie highlights from NoA
Shovel Knight has some pretty darned good looking pixel art, IMO
I'm not really a fan of pixels just for the sake of pixels, though. I can't get myself interested in Crypt of the Necrodancer, for instance, because I do not like the style they've chosen for their pixels.
Shovel Knight is one of the games that is 8-bit inspired that does it right. It's extremely high quality and they didn't use pixel art as an excuse to make it look low quality. It mimics the look of the NES and is extremely high quality art. You can tell what is what and the characters have actual features you can follow. Shovel Knight is so good guys. :heartbeat:
What about The Messenger?
Ninja Gaiden that switches between NES and SNES graphics!
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited January 2019
I haven't tried it yet, but I watched The Completionist's video on it. It looks really fun and honest to goodness looks like a new 'old' Ninja Gaiden. It is also very high quality and looks great. That is one I want eventually I just haven't grabbed yet.
Another one I haven't played yet but PS+ just added it to my list of future plays is Iconoclast. It looks like crazy fun and I'm not sure why I missed that one as I don't remember ever seeing anything on it.
What I love about the Switch is that it's getting all these games I've had on my Steam wishlist forever. Games I'd much rather play in bed on a console than in my office on my aging PC.
The discussion about pixel art is making me think that folks don't dislike pixel art; folks dislike poorly-executed art. Which is not surprising, and I think everyone can get on board with.
The discussion about pixel art is making me think that folks don't dislike pixel art; folks dislike poorly-executed art. Which is not surprising, and I think everyone can get on board with.
True, however "poorly executed art" is subjective to most folks here.
I do find myself immediately passing on any pixel art game I see, unless an overwhelm majority of people say it's actually really great. It's not even that I think the style is ugly. It's just that so many of them look so damned similar. Walking around all the indie games at PAX South this weekend, over half the games there just looked like some pixel artist kept going on some Unity tutorial for a runner or platformer.
They, in fact, may not be just that. But that's what they looked like.
The same kinda short, kinda squat, of androgynous gender and ambiguous race player avatar. Lets call them AFGNCAAP. The same run, jump, climb we've seen since forever, with nothing to distinguish it, or even really polish the feel of it the way Mario is so famous for.
It's really too bad that space got so overly saturated. Because some are simply amazing. It would have been a tragedy to have missed Shovel Knight. But it's starting to look like if you want your game to get noticed, don't do pixel art.
The discussion about pixel art is making me think that folks don't dislike pixel art; folks dislike poorly-executed art. Which is not surprising, and I think everyone can get on board with.
True, however "poorly executed art" is subjective to most folks here.
Pixel art is some of the easiest art to get started with...or at least prospective game developers think so.
It is really easy to copy some basic concepts used in many games and modify it slightly to make it your own.
Like hey guess which of these is from what game, all using the style of "darkness rimmed with detail for walls and floors:"
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited January 2019
I can still enjoy really impressive pixel art. Just like I can still enjoy really impressive hyper-real graphics in a AAA game.
To me its not that pixel art is a positive or a negative thing it is just what my brain instantly imagines an indie game looks like nowadays. Like if you tell me to check out [insert indie game here] I will assume it is pixel art until shown otherwise. If that game does turn out to be pixel art well of course it is, it is an indie game. Even though I do know on an intellectual level that indie games come in all shapes and sizes.
Or to sum up:
I expect an indie game to be pixel art just as much as I expect a AAA game to be hyper-real, despite there being plenty of examples in both cases to the contrary.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The discussion about pixel art is making me think that folks don't dislike pixel art; folks dislike poorly-executed art. Which is not surprising, and I think everyone can get on board with.
True, however "poorly executed art" is subjective to most folks here.
Pixel art is some of the easiest art to get started with...or at least prospective game developers think so.
It is really easy to copy some basic concepts used in many games and modify it slightly to make it your own.
Like hey guess which of these is from what game, all using the style of "darkness rimmed with detail for walls and floors:"
I only really recognize Celeste (first) and Shovel Knight (fourth), I'm afraid.
Shovel Knight has some pretty darned good looking pixel art, IMO
I'm not really a fan of pixels just for the sake of pixels, though. I can't get myself interested in Crypt of the Necrodancer, for instance, because I do not like the style they've chosen for their pixels.
Shovel Knight is one of the games that is 8-bit inspired that does it right. It's extremely high quality and they didn't use pixel art as an excuse to make it look low quality. It mimics the look of the NES and is extremely high quality art. You can tell what is what and the characters have actual features you can follow. Shovel Knight is so good guys. :heartbeat:
Shovel knight always seemed less 8 bit and more early snes/genesis/tg16 to me though. Like final fantasy 4 era where things still looked sort of 8 bit but they were clearly using capabilities well beyond what the NES could do.
I mostly mean that I see folks saying "I don't really like pixel art - oh, but Game XYZ has some really good pixel art". To me, that suggests that the art style isn't an inherent turn-off, it's just that these days we have way more pixel art games (because, I suspect, some indie devs think that they are required by law to do pixel art, and some indies think that pixel art is easier than it actually is) which means we have more mediocre-to-bad pixel art.
To be clear, I'm not trying to convince people who don't like the art style that they actually do like the art style. You can, of course, like and dislike any and all art style! Just, based on some of the comments, I'm getting the impression that's it less a blanket "I don't like the style" and more "boy there sure are a lot of uninteresting and unremarkable examples of this style floating around".
To be clear, I'm not trying to convince people who don't like the art style that they actually do like the art style. You can, of course, like and dislike any and all art style! Just, based on some of the comments, I'm getting the impression that's it less a blanket "I don't like the style" and more "boy there sure are a lot of uninteresting and unremarkable examples of this style floating around".
I could be wrong!
That about sums up my feelings. I have a host of pixel art games I adore. I was putzing around with my own before I had to focus more on work/family the last few years.
But its just so saturated these days with uninspired Unity tutorials. Not to be confused with flagrant asset flips. But just cases where the first 30 minutes of the gameplay give the distinct impression of the game being a Unity tutorial the guy just kept working on. I'd know, I've done a lot of them myself!
Which isn't to say no pixel art game ever stands out anymore. Owlboy and The Messenger both grabbed my attention. So did Just Beats and Shapes with it's pounding techno tracks. But they stand out almost singularly from a sea of mediocrity aping them.
If all developers making shoddy-looking/lower quality pixel art games were somehow forced to make 2D games with smoother higher res graphics, they would all have the art style that has become synonymous with low-quality mobile games.
Posts
Like who is going to look at a 16-bit style game and say, "there's no way those old CPUs could've processed these 800 particles at once! They were limited to 512 objects on screen at max!" Nobody knows this. Nobody is going to count this.
Whereas the NES could not handle more than 8 sprites on any given horizontal line before it had to start flickering. NES sprites tended to be 3 colors with the 4th reserved for transparency. It's really easy to tell when someone isn't following the constraints.
Please don't take this post as an endorsement of Owlboy.
Unf. Whenever an indie dev puts out a low effort '8-bit' turd, that is what they are competing against.
And yes, Owlboy looks incredible, but is a boring and pretty bad game.
I'm a sucker for good music in games. Sometimes that's what keeps me going more than anything else (Rogue Legacy had some INCREDIBLE music).
Oh, here's one indie that wasn't shown in the Highlight but was posted on Nintendo's YouTube page.
I wonder if there will be, in some dark corner of the internet, a similar discussion about the upcoming wave of 90s FPS (strafe, dusk etc).
"Well, there is no way you could render that on a 486!"
"Actually, the Pentium overdrive would do that, but only on 256MB RAM, which was TECHNICALLY not commonly available until well into 2000s".
"Fake 90s! graphics rip-off....."
Pixel art still ain’t a negative to me, it is more of a neutral.
I'm not really a fan of pixels just for the sake of pixels, though. I can't get myself interested in Crypt of the Necrodancer, for instance, because I do not like the style they've chosen for their pixels.
It's something that wasn't explored much previously on purpose because for many years it was a competition to do more and more complex and detailed graphics, there was no time to explore being more stylized. It was all about pushing more objects in motion and getting closer to realism. Some of the few games I would say went for that style intentionally back then were Kirby and Gimmick, and even then it was more "cartoon" than "minimalist."
So it generally feels like a more refreshing take in the gaming landscape.
Shovel Knight is one of the games that is 8-bit inspired that does it right. It's extremely high quality and they didn't use pixel art as an excuse to make it look low quality. It mimics the look of the NES and is extremely high quality art. You can tell what is what and the characters have actual features you can follow. Shovel Knight is so good guys. :heartbeat:
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
I gotchu @GMaster7 .
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
What about The Messenger?
Ninja Gaiden that switches between NES and SNES graphics!
Another one I haven't played yet but PS+ just added it to my list of future plays is Iconoclast. It looks like crazy fun and I'm not sure why I missed that one as I don't remember ever seeing anything on it.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Y'know what? I will rebuy CrossCode if for no other reason than that game was great and the devs should be duly rewarded.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
True, however "poorly executed art" is subjective to most folks here.
They, in fact, may not be just that. But that's what they looked like.
The same kinda short, kinda squat, of androgynous gender and ambiguous race player avatar. Lets call them AFGNCAAP. The same run, jump, climb we've seen since forever, with nothing to distinguish it, or even really polish the feel of it the way Mario is so famous for.
It's really too bad that space got so overly saturated. Because some are simply amazing. It would have been a tragedy to have missed Shovel Knight. But it's starting to look like if you want your game to get noticed, don't do pixel art.
Pixel art is some of the easiest art to get started with...or at least prospective game developers think so.
It is really easy to copy some basic concepts used in many games and modify it slightly to make it your own.
Like hey guess which of these is from what game, all using the style of "darkness rimmed with detail for walls and floors:"
To me its not that pixel art is a positive or a negative thing it is just what my brain instantly imagines an indie game looks like nowadays. Like if you tell me to check out [insert indie game here] I will assume it is pixel art until shown otherwise. If that game does turn out to be pixel art well of course it is, it is an indie game. Even though I do know on an intellectual level that indie games come in all shapes and sizes.
Or to sum up:
I expect an indie game to be pixel art just as much as I expect a AAA game to be hyper-real, despite there being plenty of examples in both cases to the contrary.
My attempt to stealthily watch the presentation at the office was nearly ruined when that name caused me to chortle.
I only really recognize Celeste (first) and Shovel Knight (fourth), I'm afraid.
Shovel knight always seemed less 8 bit and more early snes/genesis/tg16 to me though. Like final fantasy 4 era where things still looked sort of 8 bit but they were clearly using capabilities well beyond what the NES could do.
... but I freakin' love Steamworld games, so I will be grabbing Steamworld Quest as soon as it is available.
I could be wrong!
That about sums up my feelings. I have a host of pixel art games I adore. I was putzing around with my own before I had to focus more on work/family the last few years.
But its just so saturated these days with uninspired Unity tutorials. Not to be confused with flagrant asset flips. But just cases where the first 30 minutes of the gameplay give the distinct impression of the game being a Unity tutorial the guy just kept working on. I'd know, I've done a lot of them myself!
Which isn't to say no pixel art game ever stands out anymore. Owlboy and The Messenger both grabbed my attention. So did Just Beats and Shapes with it's pounding techno tracks. But they stand out almost singularly from a sea of mediocrity aping them.
If all developers making shoddy-looking/lower quality pixel art games were somehow forced to make 2D games with smoother higher res graphics, they would all have the art style that has become synonymous with low-quality mobile games.
are there two Hollow Knight games or something?
Shovel Knight is totes a pixel art game.
There should be more "______ Knight" games, to further the confusion.