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Dinos and Druids, A Tasty Romp through Table Top Games

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Posts

  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    god, a name is probably the hardest part

    'Devilish Tricks' or 'Hands of the Shiftless' are probably my top two name suggestions

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  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Not being able to dual wield hand crossbows has always irked me a bit as well. DnD combat is so far from realism in all ways but somehow this is still a bridge too far for the rules.

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  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Doobh wrote: »
    god, a name is probably the hardest part

    'Devilish Tricks' or 'Hands of the Shiftless' are probably my top two name suggestions

    lemme sleep on this and I'll post some ideas tomorrow!

    Doobh
  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Not being able to dual wield hand crossbows has always irked me a bit as well. DnD combat is so far from realism in all ways but somehow this is still a bridge too far for the rules.

    I think most RPG players have weird and arbitrary breaking points (I could be projecting, here). Someone, earlier, was mentioning how much resistance they'd get if they tried to reflavor a tortle to be a beetle person? And, yeah, for some reason that raised my hackles a bit! I still can't put a finger on why. There's definitely a more involved world building process for D&D GMs, but I am starting to question my own inflexibility.

    (weirdly enough, I'd be more okay if the tortle was used as a base for making that new species instead of just being reflavored - why?)

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    Se'el Arr has a demonic associate named Baasmenndt.

    Wow, you know Mr. Basement?

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Doobh wrote: »
    I got the duplicate pact weapon idea from thinking about the stupid ruling against dual-wielding hand crossbows (I will never let this go) since it's functionally the same as wielding one hand crossbow, but slightly worse since you're enchanting two different weapons instead of one

    then I realized "well, shit, what if I could summon two and fire away while bolts float up into and phase into a firing position as fast as I pull the trigger"

    warlock shit can be a LOT cooler, is all I'm sayin'

    reload your crossbows like Reaper by just throwing them away and summoning them back into your hands already loaded

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  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    why can't you dual wield hand crossbows?

    also crossbow expert lets you ignore the Loading trait on Crossbows, allowing for multiple attacks

    dual wield hand crossbows, reloading them by dragging them over the bandoleers stocked with bolts and crossbow the shit out of them

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  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Doobh wrote: »
    I got the duplicate pact weapon idea from thinking about the stupid ruling against dual-wielding hand crossbows (I will never let this go) since it's functionally the same as wielding one hand crossbow, but slightly worse since you're enchanting two different weapons instead of one

    then I realized "well, shit, what if I could summon two and fire away while bolts float up into and phase into a firing position as fast as I pull the trigger"

    warlock shit can be a LOT cooler, is all I'm sayin'

    reload your crossbows like Reaper by just throwing them away and summoning them back into your hands already loaded

    adding this to notes

  • webguy20webguy20 Registered User regular
    why can't you dual wield hand crossbows?

    also crossbow expert lets you ignore the Loading trait on Crossbows, allowing for multiple attacks

    dual wield hand crossbows, reloading them by dragging them over the bandoleers stocked with bolts and crossbow the shit out of them

    the argument is that while you ignore the time it takes to load (the loading property) you still need a hand free to do the loading. I like your reload from a bandoleer and stuff, but like Doobh said some folks breaking points for RAW would prevent you from doing it.

    WotC has written themselves into a dumb corner in regards to this stuff, especially combined with sharp shooter, which is where it always comes up.

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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    When one of my players hadn't settled on his char yet, he considered bugbear ranger (with a pretty fun backstory) and we had already agreed that he had twin handcrossbows but just using longbow stats to make it easier mechanically. But if you really want two separate attacks, that doesn't help, of course.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Doobh wrote: »
    I got the duplicate pact weapon idea from thinking about the stupid ruling against dual-wielding hand crossbows (I will never let this go) since it's functionally the same as wielding one hand crossbow, but slightly worse since you're enchanting two different weapons instead of one

    then I realized "well, shit, what if I could summon two and fire away while bolts float up into and phase into a firing position as fast as I pull the trigger"

    warlock shit can be a LOT cooler, is all I'm sayin'

    reload your crossbows like Reaper by just throwing them away and summoning them back into your hands already loaded

    adding this to notes

    What you need it a trained monkey or imp familiar that reloads for you while sitting on your shoulders.

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  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Huh, I always thought dual Hand Crossbows was legit as long as you took the Crossbow Expert feat

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  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited February 10
    BL-VDR, the discreet assassin butler robot died, distracting a pair of very big Swarm monstrosities while his friends escaped with the lone security guard that had survived the Swarm onslaught

    my new character is that security guard, Rod Johnson (it's a dick joke, but the joke is that all the security guards in the area were, though unrelated, all named Johnson). He's gonna start way underleveled, and if I can keep him alive through the next session, he'll progress to the rest of the party's level.

    but if he dies, my new character is gonna be a Dragonkin Soldier, because the party really needs a tank and I would like to be able to fly and stuff

    edit: also Dragonkin are Large and I love the idea of being like "ugh, I gotta- shit my wing is stuck, here, pull me through" whenever we have to go through doors

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  • webguy20webguy20 Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    Yea I usually find it only is a big deal when stats are rolled and someone rolls hot. With sharpshooter (and great weapon master) you can negate that -5 a bit at lower levels with a higher main to hit at the start, so if you also allow free reloading then you can get a lot of shots off that do a lot of damage at range with crossbow expert.

    If you can get a 20 in your main stat at level one, take variant human to get Sharpshooter, be a fighter and take the archery fighting style then you're looking at potentially only a -2 to get that sweet +10 damage on your attack, then by level four you take crossbow expert and now you're getting that on two attacks each round if you allow no-handed reloading, and level 5 your getting it on 3 attacks. These attacks also ignore most cover and you can do them at point blank range if an enemy gets close.

    Now this damage spike starts to level out by around level 10 compared to other classes, but since most campaigns seem to end around there, it can make the fighter seem super powered early on.

    I've house ruled sharpshooter and great weapon master to scale with proficiency, so its negative proficiency to hit, and double proficiency to damage. Also if you are using an array or point buy you'll be spending a skill increase at level 4 or 6 to help negate that negative to hit, so it helps slow down the build.

    Edit: If your DM throws a lot of magic users at you then picking up Mage Slayer at level 6 could be useful, being able to generate disadvantage on the concentration check at range could be super useful, especially since your ignoring most cover already.

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  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Yea I usually find it only is a big deal when stats are rolled and someone rolls hot. With sharpshooter (and great weapon master) you can negate that -5 a bit at lower levels with a higher main to hit at the start, so if you also allow free reloading then you can get a lot of shots off that do a lot of damage at range with crossbow expert.

    If you can get a 20 in your main stat at level one, take variant human to get Sharpshooter, be a fighter and take the archery fighting style then you're looking at potentially only a -2 to get that sweet +10 damage on your attack, then by level four you take crossbow expert and now you're getting that on two attacks each round if you allow no-handed reloading, and level 5 your getting it on 3 attacks. These attacks also ignore most cover and you can do them at point blank range if an enemy gets close.

    Now this damage spike starts to level out by around level 10 compared to other classes, but since most campaigns seem to end around there, it can make the fighter seem super powered early on.

    I've house ruled sharpshooter and great weapon master to scale with proficiency, so its negative proficiency to hit, and double proficiency to damage. Also if you are using an array or point buy you'll be spending a skill increase at level 4 or 8 to help negate that negative to hit, so it helps slow down the build.

    this is similar to Power Attack and it's kind back in 3.5e and in Pathfinder, and personally it's by far my preferred execution of the concept

    it's also on my houserule ideas list

  • Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Having abilities and bonuses that scale on proficiency looks real cool. Doesn’t defy the design style of eschewing flat bonuses for advantage/disadvantage, gives some scaling to class abilities, and makes those nothing feeling levels have some punch if you get a proficiency increase.

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  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    sharpshooter is such a useful feat that I wish it was simply built in for a class feature

    maybe your fighting style gains new abilities as you get higher level, so a shield person would get the shield feat, a defense person would get some type of armor feat, etc.

    I don't like how feats are structured in 5e because the stat bonuses are so key early on, so you won't even see most feats for a while... unless you roll variant human

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  • webguy20webguy20 Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    Doobh wrote: »
    sharpshooter is such a useful feat that I wish it was simply built in for a class feature

    maybe your fighting style gains new abilities as you get higher level, so a shield person would get the shield feat, a defense person would get some type of armor feat, etc.

    I don't like how feats are structured in 5e because the stat bonuses are so key early on, so you won't even see most feats for a while... unless you roll variant human

    Yea I redid the character creation rules to take this into account. I love feats if you can get them. Array is 18, 16, 16, 12, 10, 8. No races get any ability bonuses, but do all start with a free feat. That feat can't bump up an ability score.

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  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    One of my plans for the mega-campaign is to offer a pretty big array of Backgrounds, and each one gives you the option of a feat from a set list of choices.

    Also reworking a bunch of the races, especially Elves (since the campaign is designed for a party of mostly elves) but also humans

    webguy20
  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    so, in a modern fantasy world, do you think necromancy is banned, or do you think banks have security wraiths and shit?

    Like, there is a morality attached to necromancy and messing with the dead. but if you could animate the bones of someone and use them as cheap labour, maybe you buy them from the family, and pay the family an allowance or something? "we want to keep Pap pap's bones, but, we'll give you ten grand a year until they dissolve"

  • ElddrikElddrik Registered User regular
    Doobh wrote: »
    sharpshooter is such a useful feat that I wish it was simply built in for a class feature

    maybe your fighting style gains new abilities as you get higher level, so a shield person would get the shield feat, a defense person would get some type of armor feat, etc.

    I don't like how feats are structured in 5e because the stat bonuses are so key early on, so you won't even see most feats for a while... unless you roll variant human

    Yeah. The biggest problem I have with 5E feats is that some of them are just straight-up overpowered (Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master most notably).

    And with how useful ability score boosts are, you basically don't want a feat that isn't one of those two until you have a 20 in your prime stat (unless you're variant human).

    I feel like feats could be made more interesting by having more of them with 'limited boost, but +1 to a stat'. I also think ability score boosts might be more interesting if they had a tiny situational benefit added to them, instead of just being the ability score boost. (For example, maybe +2 to Con and also when you take poison damage reduce the damage by 1. Probably not a good example, but you get the idea, it's both weak and situational.)

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  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I finished designing the predominate races for my D&D campaign setting.

    Half-Elves were changed into Half-Bloods (with options for a variety of the primary humanoids races in the setting).

    I also created robot & undead options.

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  • IblisIblis Registered User regular
    Melding wrote: »
    so, in a modern fantasy world, do you think necromancy is banned, or do you think banks have security wraiths and shit?

    Like, there is a morality attached to necromancy and messing with the dead. but if you could animate the bones of someone and use them as cheap labour, maybe you buy them from the family, and pay the family an allowance or something? "we want to keep Pap pap's bones, but, we'll give you ten grand a year until they dissolve"

    Looking at our current capitalist hellscape, I would assume the dead would be purchased from poor or war torn nations and used to displace living workers aside from specialist necromancers trained to support and maintain them.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Melding wrote: »
    so, in a modern fantasy world, do you think necromancy is banned, or do you think banks have security wraiths and shit?

    Like, there is a morality attached to necromancy and messing with the dead. but if you could animate the bones of someone and use them as cheap labour, maybe you buy them from the family, and pay the family an allowance or something? "we want to keep Pap pap's bones, but, we'll give you ten grand a year until they dissolve"

    I feel like with a lot of double-talk and caveats some elements of society could work it, banks being a good example. I don’t think they’d be common though. Unless the society is kinda weird to start with I don’t think most folk want to be around corpses.

    For undead in a modern world: I’m picturing something in a long robe wearing an iron mask with black glass shades over the eyes. Maybe some hollow part of it is full of incense or perfume. The idea being that very few people have the answer to what’s under all that, that’s just what vault guards are, man.

    The thing that I always imagine is if you can make undead, maybe you could make a golem instead? Is it simply cheaper to make undead, is it safer? What’s the worse case if an undead goes rogue, or a golem?

  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    They should really have feats like Sharpshooter and the non stat bonuses from things like Gourmand be separate tracks.

    Flavor feats that expand your character. And crunchy feats for combat and systems.

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  • RingoRingo Out of things to say Heartbreak HillRegistered User regular
    Melding wrote: »
    so, in a modern fantasy world, do you think necromancy is banned, or do you think banks have security wraiths and shit?

    Like, there is a morality attached to necromancy and messing with the dead. but if you could animate the bones of someone and use them as cheap labour, maybe you buy them from the family, and pay the family an allowance or something? "we want to keep Pap pap's bones, but, we'll give you ten grand a year until they dissolve"

    Depends on how dystopian your setting is - a fairly benign setup would be licensed necromancers who lease the dead from their descendants to perform non-economy destroying tasks. Living get money, and the necromancer is obligated to intercede on behalf of the departed soul.

    It gets much worse from there

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    at real life dystopia levels? probably not, at least not publically and it might be a big scandal if it got out. There's probably regulation against it that may or may not be getting rigorously enforced or is in the sights of corporate interests buying out politicians to gut it.

    a few more degrees towards punk dystopia fiction though and you have zombies as security guards, tucked away in a closet in the back, covered up in nice uniforms with hoods and masks so people don't have to look at them and think about it too hard.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    Melding wrote: »
    so, in a modern fantasy world, do you think necromancy is banned, or do you think banks have security wraiths and shit?

    Like, there is a morality attached to necromancy and messing with the dead. but if you could animate the bones of someone and use them as cheap labour, maybe you buy them from the family, and pay the family an allowance or something? "we want to keep Pap pap's bones, but, we'll give you ten grand a year until they dissolve"

    I feel like with a lot of double-talk and caveats some elements of society could work it, banks being a good example. I don’t think they’d be common though. Unless the society is kinda weird to start with I don’t think most folk want to be around corpses.

    For undead in a modern world: I’m picturing something in a long robe wearing an iron mask with black glass shades over the eyes. Maybe some hollow part of it is full of incense or perfume. The idea being that very few people have the answer to what’s under all that, that’s just what vault guards are, man.

    The thing that I always imagine is if you can make undead, maybe you could make a golem instead? Is it simply cheaper to make undead, is it safer? What’s the worse case if an undead goes rogue, or a golem?

    I was talking about much the same general idea earlier here, using the undead for cheap labor while employing a necromancer to maintain them. Granted, in that case my PC would be the necromancer in question, but same difference.

    Personally, I don't think they'd be used much as bank security, I mean, when was the last time you played a game and saw a single zombie/skeleton as a threat? A bank would have to have enough of them hanging around that the respectable clientele probably wouldn't be too thrilled to be coming in in that case. Security in warehouse districts or the like, sure. You could have a horde of mindless shamblers wandering around to discourage the curious, assuming they where controlled as with Animate Dead.
    I think it would be far more likely that the undead would be employed in much the same fashion that we use robots. In dangerous, or repetitive, tasks that it costs too much to employ humans at. Manufacturing, mining, possibly industrial food prep (skeletons only, zombies need not apply, too much leakage on the killing floor).
    The higher tier undead, your liches and the like, would probably be the ones running the undead manufacturing lines.

    As for the morality issue, do you think that desecrating a few graves would get noticed if it meant that some other luxury was a few dollars cheaper? I don't want to sound like I'm calling anyone out here, but the Chinese electronics factories have suicide nets outside their windows for a reason, and that knowledge doesn't stop me from using my smart phone. In a society where the undead could be reliably harnessed for labor, I think the society would quickly evolve a morality where doing so was not only okay, but was the norm. Not volunteering your corpse could be seen as, at the very least, a faux pas or a substantial luxury in itself. Like, it'd be kind of weird for the first few generations, but if this is just the way it is, then sure, Grampa goes to hospice, then he goes to work. It's sad, but it's the way it is. I'm reminded of the movie Fido, a world much as posited here, where the ability to purchase a funeral (and thus not have to be a zombie laborer after death) was a massive investment and luxury for the 1950's middle class.

    As for Golems vs Undead, Golems tend to require considerably more investment, both in resources and labor, to make than a run of the mill undead. They're also considerably more powerful. 5e CR for a zombie is 1/4, the golem is 9 (for a clay golem, you start making stone or iron golems and that goes up). Golems would have a place in such a society too, running those jobs that a skeleton couldn't, iron works, heavy construction and the like. They'd probably be considered much more amenable to indoor security jobs like the bank (for smaller golems), with high end banks getting progressively more expensive golems. Golems also don't tend to rot apart like the skeletons, so they may be better suited for long term jobs, or jobs where there wouldn't be a steady supply of corpses to replace them when they wear out. Worst case scenario, if a zombie or two go rogue it's not a big deal. In most modern entertainment the zombie is only a threat in herds where they can bog people down, or if a person panics in the presence of a zombie (I'd assume that they'd have classes in schools about what to do if you see a rogue zombie (again, check out Fido). But the rogue Golem is a much bigger problem. If it goes rogue it's not just a single shambling body stumbling around, it might as well be a rogue piece of industrial equipment. It's going to make a mess.

    Edit:

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    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    I was gonna have my players fight an eidolon in a sacred statue today (from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). However, while the party was talking to the disembodied eidolon just before the planned fight, the wizard cast disintegrate on the inanimate statue and destroyed it instantly. He didn't even know it was an eidolon the party was talking to; he just found the religious freak ghost annoying and wanted to destroy its god's likeness.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    ahahaha

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  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    you wouldn't use zombies as bank security, that's why i specified wraiths. wights would also work. a moderately intelligent undead that is strong but not powerful enough to over run the bank's main security. Like, at the main branch of a bank, you have a team of living people with side arms, maybe a security room with the monitors has carbines or smgs, but if security is breaches, two howler ghouls are unleashed in battle gear, and if they get into the safe, then it's up to the mummy to keep shit safe until the actual strike team shows up.

    unless you made the zombies actually a physical threat, but even then they're too dumb, so maybe you let them out during the night to guard warehouses and such, but certainly not banks.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Get someone with rebuke undead, have them control a wight, have that paladin offer people money to kill their infirm with the wight so that it can create a team of zombies... if we're gonna go horrible magic punk dystopia let's lean into it.

  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    that said, skeletons in a modern setting where most people are using firearms would pose a significant problem. the surface area of a skeleton is much smaller than a fleshy person, as well they could be packed into small compartments that can be remote opened so suddenly there are a bunch of tactical sword wielding combatants. they would be hard to hit at a range so they could get in close easily enough, allowing them to cut off paths of access and escape and most bank robbers wouldn't be carrying anti sword armour, so that's a problem.

    Though a lot of this banks on surprise. It would have to be secret skeletons. you can't let that info get out.

    i am mostly just tossing this around because i like the idea of low level crooks trying to do a bank heist, and then it becomes a horror story as they are staring down the vault ghoul. an undead monster, seven feet tall, claws a foot long each, a maw of jagged teeth, and encased in bullet proof body armour.

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  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    so i guess the conclusion i am coming to, with a modern "morality" necromancy would be something that really only the rich can afford. so it ends up in a lot of private security. Cause you can't just raise random people into undead legally. There is paper work to go through. religious concerns to be argued in court.

    "Grandpa was a follower of Saliune, the Goddess of Life, he would not consent to his corpse being used to creature a howler ghoul!"

    and then there is the matter of compensation, at least for a time until a lawyer figures out a way that they don't have to keep paying you.

    Maybe you signed a contract that keeps you under their employee in perpetuity, and since your body still exists it is under contract, so they can raise you as an abomination against life without consulting your family. Read your contracts kiddos, you don't want to end up a McZombie.

  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Honestly I'm just thinking of that bit that kept coming up in Angel where people's employment contracts just sort of didn't end when the person died.

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  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    now, this isn't even getting into black market necromancy, which would be its own horrible affair, plus you know, found bodies and the like being sold from hospitals to companies instead of popper funerals.

    there is some dark paths this could take, that i am not willing to explore at this moment, but hey, adventure hooks for a gm that might.

  • Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Protestors that bless the building, security needs to be dispatched to swat them away before the consecration drives the undead security berzerk.

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    What about a utopian city with all necessities available for free. Food, housing, basic clothing, whatever. All provided by an immortal necromancer/possibly lich-like creature under one condition: When you die, your bones and spirit join the workforce that provides all these things for the residents. It's a place of opulent luxury, breathtaking art, and diverse cuisine.

    Yet beyond the city walls, vast fields tilled by blankly staring skeletons as far as the eye can see. Glowing spirits patrol the sewers, watching for monsters.

    And within the castle of the city's king? Well, that's where the true horrors may or may not lie.

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  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I'd think for bank security you might see some Animated Armors or at least one Shield Guardian.

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  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    WACriminal wrote: »
    What about a utopian city with all necessities available for free. Food, housing, basic clothing, whatever. All provided by an immortal necromancer/possibly lich-like creature under one condition: When you die, your bones and spirit join the workforce that provides all these things for the residents. It's a place of opulent luxury, breathtaking art, and diverse cuisine.

    Yet beyond the city walls, vast fields tilled by blankly staring skeletons as far as the eye can see. Glowing spirits patrol the sewers, watching for monsters.

    And within the castle of the city's king? Well, that's where the true horrors may or may not lie.

    that is a bit darker than i wanted to go. i'm just kind of spit balling ideas and hooks to be used in a modern fantasy thing. less, about the horrors of undeath.

    sewer trolls might be an issue. specially if they're young adults with martial arts training.
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I'd think for bank security you might see some Animated Armors or at least one Shield Guardian.

    this is also good thinking. good monsters that can be set up as like art that sprints to life. though living armours would be pretty easy to put down with fire arms, the surprise of it would likely have impact at the very least.

    Melding on
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