So I just lost an easily winnable game in expedition because of a lot of nonsense: first, if a player attacks in challenger mode and you do not have a unit to "block" you do not get a block turn to do anything with your priority. Second, a player was able to win with Fiora by rallying which passed priority but somehow didn't allow me to cast a creature spell. They then won easily with back to back barriers. All of these turns I also had burst spells in hand to deal with every threat they had.
Incredibly salty.
EDIT: And just lose the overall Expedition by having ZERO way to deal with the Elusive units. Fun.
If you have nothing to do (for the blocking) it auto passes. You can turn that off
The Demacian rally is a burst spell. It does not pass priority
Oh no. It wasn't that. Auto-pass has always been turned off. In this game, the opponent literally attacked using the Laurent Challenger, pulled the only unit I had on the field, and the button resolved to SKIP BLOCK with no option to play my fast spell. And Relentless Pursuit is a fast spell, which means I should have been given priority back as soon as they played it (otherwise that would be really powerful and kind of broken).
I got absolutely wrecked in two separate games by the card that lets you have one of your units deal its damage to all battling enemies.
Elusive has been getting me through a lot of expedition matches. Challenger generally seems like the closest counter vs other elusives or direct damage. Can't stop the attack, but can at least force some removing blocks on their part.
I got absolutely wrecked in two separate games by the card that lets you have one of your units deal its damage to all battling enemies.
Elusive has been getting me through a lot of expedition matches. Challenger generally seems like the closest counter vs other elusives or direct damage. Can't stop the attack, but can at least force some removing blocks on their part.
I got absolutely wrecked in two separate games by the card that lets you have one of your units deal its damage to all battling enemies.
Elusive has been getting me through a lot of expedition matches. Challenger generally seems like the closest counter vs other elusives or direct damage. Can't stop the attack, but can at least force some removing blocks on their part.
Judgement.
It's one of those "basically a game-winner" late-ish game cards most times you play it. At least in my experience.
I find it hilarious when used with a unit with lifesteal since you go straight back to 20 nexus health instantly.
I got absolutely wrecked in two separate games by the card that lets you have one of your units deal its damage to all battling enemies.
Elusive has been getting me through a lot of expedition matches. Challenger generally seems like the closest counter vs other elusives or direct damage. Can't stop the attack, but can at least force some removing blocks on their part.
I believe that's Judgement and really the only counter for that is removal or Frostbite. Another big bomb spell card which really just swings a game from one side to the other.
I think they should look into increasing the costs of spells, forcing users to actually conserve Spell Mana. Right now, other than maximizing a turn, there's not a whole lot of reason to really be concerned with Spell Mana as a resource, especially in the later stages of a game. If Judgement for example cost like 10+ you would have some idea that it's coming if the opponent banked some mana a big spell turn might be coming up.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I got absolutely wrecked in two separate games by the card that lets you have one of your units deal its damage to all battling enemies.
Elusive has been getting me through a lot of expedition matches. Challenger generally seems like the closest counter vs other elusives or direct damage. Can't stop the attack, but can at least force some removing blocks on their part.
I believe that's Judgement and really the only counter for that is removal or Frostbite. Another big bomb spell card which really just swings a game from one side to the other.
I think they should look into increasing the costs of spells, forcing users to actually conserve Spell Mana. Right now, other than maximizing a turn, there's not a whole lot of reason to really be concerned with Spell Mana as a resource, especially in the later stages of a game. If Judgement for example cost like 10+ you would have some idea that it's coming if the opponent banked some mana a big spell turn might be coming up.
It's 7 mana, is inherently a two card combo, and is countered by many cheaper spells or by just not going all in if they have the mana up. It's fine.
It's also limited by needing to have a follower in the battling area to even cast it, which means if they only attack with elusives....you can't use it defensively. Additionally, it can't hit units not in the battling area.
Shadow Isles has the only true board wipe, right?
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I got absolutely wrecked in two separate games by the card that lets you have one of your units deal its damage to all battling enemies.
Elusive has been getting me through a lot of expedition matches. Challenger generally seems like the closest counter vs other elusives or direct damage. Can't stop the attack, but can at least force some removing blocks on their part.
I believe that's Judgement and really the only counter for that is removal or Frostbite. Another big bomb spell card which really just swings a game from one side to the other.
I think they should look into increasing the costs of spells, forcing users to actually conserve Spell Mana. Right now, other than maximizing a turn, there's not a whole lot of reason to really be concerned with Spell Mana as a resource, especially in the later stages of a game. If Judgement for example cost like 10+ you would have some idea that it's coming if the opponent banked some mana a big spell turn might be coming up.
It's 7 mana, is inherently a two card combo, and is countered by many cheaper spells or by just not going all in if they have the mana up. It's fine.
Like I said, I'm talking about big bombs in general. And the cards you have to hard counter it aren't necessarily obvious for it. As mentioned above it's a card that usually swings a game and is only countered if you're expecting to need it (like would you really hold on to a Deny against a For Demacia expecting a Judgement later on).
The problem with stopping Judgement is that you need to do it preemptively by keeping them from getting any big units up. Or frostbite, which isn't that common except in specific decks afaik or you need some spell-counter, which is quite rare afaik. (This is extra true for newer players with fewer options)
At least imo the way it goes most of the time is you build up a decent army on the board and it's late game so some heavy-hitters have come out and people's hands are getting and their nexus's have taken some beating. Then you go all in on the attack. This forces them to block. Then you cast judgement and unless they can counter the spell, you should wipe out most of their team and either end it right there or at least have a really commanding position that will let you end it soon after.
That's the way you play it offensively at least afaik and it's hard to counter without some fast/burst frostbite in your pocket or some way to kill their units off faster then they can summon them (which is difficult late game because of how much mana you get)
Yeah there's some late game cards that can really flip the matches. Which isn't necessarily a problem, its just dramatic when they hit. I doubt I'd hold a deny that long just in case, or not commit to a full attack just in case.
At least not until I get better at remembering which regions certain spells fall under. There's definitely counters and if it becomes a meta thing in certain style decks, then you'll start to plan around them and save a frostbite or something (if that or deny are even things your deck can run). So far deny is really the only counterpell right?
Yeah, Dusk and Dawn's pretty ridiculous. I remember during the Preview weekends I hit someone with five Tryndamere's at once due to Karma double-casting it.
I wonder if it'd be better if the copies had blank text boxes and keywords.
EDIT: Karma continues to be hilarious. Someone decided to let her go un-blocked late-game against their nexus, and blocked everyone else...
And then she double-cast Battle Fury on herself, giving herself +8/+4 twice. boop goes the nexus.
Dusk and Dawn might be broken, but it’s also lead to the most fun boardstates I’ve seen. Flipped Teemo into Dusk and Dawn for 500 shrooms I’m deck (opponent drew 23 on his next card). Or flipped Karma into Dusk and Dawn into a nexus damage spell.
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
The other thing being the fact that you're guaranteed the mana needed to get those big cards out. All the fast agro decks I've seen that go for a pre 8 mana win are very very dependent on early draws and if they don't get them. That gives folks time get easy defenders up.
Nice feature I just noticed: If you import a deck but don't have the cards, it will still show you the deck with just the parts you don't have in red. And then you can either buy the cards or replace them with ones you do have as you want. That was a pleasant surprise since I expected it to throw some sort of error.
Of course, trying a few modified deck ideas I found did not save me from elusive spam. Right now I'm not really sure how you do anything about it unless when it pops up.
Also someone threw some more high-cost shadow isles bullshit at me. The Harrowing especially was a big old "Well, that's just a get 10 and I win ain't it?".
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Elusive creatures pay for Elusive by having lower attack and defense for their cost, so you beat them either with removal (because your removal becomes far more efficient than their stats) or by just playing bigger creatures.
Elusive creatures pay for Elusive by having lower attack and defense for their cost, so you beat them either with removal (because your removal becomes far more efficient than their stats) or by just playing bigger creatures.
Elusive creatures pay for Elusive by having lower attack and defense for their cost, so you beat them either with removal (because your removal becomes far more efficient than their stats) or by just playing bigger creatures.
/stares at The Empyrean
I mean, with the lack of summoning sickness it doesn't really matter much anyway.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I'm not sure how the existence of a large Elusive creature contradicts anything I said.
Elusive creatures pay for Elusive by having lower attack and defense for their cost, so you beat them either with removal (because your removal becomes far more efficient than their stats) or by just playing bigger creatures.
/stares at The Empyrean
I mean, with the lack of summoning sickness it doesn't really matter much anyway.
While there is no summoning sickness the defender does get access to full mana that turn. And if they play an elusive (which is the only way summoning sickness would matter), you don’t even need fast removal, you can use slow spells.
Elusive creatures pay for Elusive by having lower attack and defense for their cost, so you beat them either with removal (because your removal becomes far more efficient than their stats) or by just playing bigger creatures.
/stares at The Empyrean
I mean, with the lack of summoning sickness it doesn't really matter much anyway.
While there is no summoning sickness the defender does get access to full mana that turn. And if they play an elusive (which is the only way summoning sickness would matter), you don’t even need fast removal, you can use slow spells.
Elusive creatures pay for Elusive by having lower attack and defense for their cost, so you beat them either with removal (because your removal becomes far more efficient than their stats) or by just playing bigger creatures.
/stares at The Empyrean
I mean, with the lack of summoning sickness it doesn't really matter much anyway.
While there is no summoning sickness the defender does get access to full mana that turn. And if they play an elusive (which is the only way summoning sickness would matter), you don’t even need fast removal, you can use slow spells.
I do think they should have a “reach” mechanic.
They basically do with challenger
Challenger is weak to the “no summoning sickness” issue. Can’t do much against an Emperyan or the 6/6 elusive epic if your answer to elusive is challenger.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
The problem with stopping Judgement is that you need to do it preemptively by keeping them from getting any big units up. Or frostbite, which isn't that common except in specific decks afaik or you need some spell-counter, which is quite rare afaik. (This is extra true for newer players with fewer options)
At least imo the way it goes most of the time is you build up a decent army on the board and it's late game so some heavy-hitters have come out and people's hands are getting and their nexus's have taken some beating. Then you go all in on the attack. This forces them to block. Then you cast judgement and unless they can counter the spell, you should wipe out most of their team and either end it right there or at least have a really commanding position that will let you end it soon after.
That's the way you play it offensively at least afaik and it's hard to counter without some fast/burst frostbite in your pocket or some way to kill their units off faster then they can summon them (which is difficult late game because of how much mana you get)
Also, fyi, it's 8 mana.
This is maybe the worst way to use the spell since your whole team is still blocked so you wasted your attack token, 8 mana, to wipe the board and give them at least a turn to recover. It's still good but it's not the "jesus come on man." The blow out scenario is they swing with the team, you block with one person and then cast judgement to destroy their whole team and take no losses. And then you just don't do that if they have Demacia and 8 mana open.
Cards each faction has to beat judgement:
Noxus: Decisive Maneuver. 5 mana stun. Guile, kind of with caveats. Potentially Noxian Guillotine, or Whirling Death.
Demacia: A lot of these are partial saves, or maybes. Detain stops it in it's tracks and is a 5 cost spell. Single combat can kill the whirlwinder. Prismatic Barrier, Back to Back, Riposte, or Stand Alone could potentially save you. You could Whirlwind them in response!
Freljord: Shatter, Harsh Winds, Flash Freeze, or potentially Brittle Steel just shut it down. Battle Fury, Bloodsworn Pledge or possibly Elixir of Iron can save.
Shadow Isles: Shockingly maybe the worst but also maybe the least to lose from a judgement. Vengeance will of course give you a guaranteed 2 for 1. Possibly Grasp of the Undying, Vile Feast or Black Spear.
Ionia: The land of answers! Deny, Steel Tempest, or Will of Ionia win big. Recall or Shadowshift can save valuable targets, as can Stand United or Spirit's Refuge.
Piltover: Maybe the worst at this? Get excited or mystic shot are maybes. Thermogenic Beam could be a preemptive tool.
Elusive creatures pay for Elusive by having lower attack and defense for their cost, so you beat them either with removal (because your removal becomes far more efficient than their stats) or by just playing bigger creatures.
/stares at The Empyrean
I mean, with the lack of summoning sickness it doesn't really matter much anyway.
While there is no summoning sickness the defender does get access to full mana that turn. And if they play an elusive (which is the only way summoning sickness would matter), you don’t even need fast removal, you can use slow spells.
I do think they should have a “reach” mechanic.
I could see something like Vigilant: Can block Elusive attackers and cannot be targeted by Challenger.
Or Grounded: Cannot be recalled.
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Shockingly, elusive units that stack damage with nexus strike combined with cards that cast cheap spells can really add up fast. At least if you have some cheap removal spells you can actually kill most of them. (I ran into it in draft and so was fucked)
The problem with stopping Judgement is that you need to do it preemptively by keeping them from getting any big units up. Or frostbite, which isn't that common except in specific decks afaik or you need some spell-counter, which is quite rare afaik. (This is extra true for newer players with fewer options)
At least imo the way it goes most of the time is you build up a decent army on the board and it's late game so some heavy-hitters have come out and people's hands are getting and their nexus's have taken some beating. Then you go all in on the attack. This forces them to block. Then you cast judgement and unless they can counter the spell, you should wipe out most of their team and either end it right there or at least have a really commanding position that will let you end it soon after.
That's the way you play it offensively at least afaik and it's hard to counter without some fast/burst frostbite in your pocket or some way to kill their units off faster then they can summon them (which is difficult late game because of how much mana you get)
Also, fyi, it's 8 mana.
This is maybe the worst way to use the spell since your whole team is still blocked so you wasted your attack token, 8 mana, to wipe the board and give them at least a turn to recover. It's still good but it's not the "jesus come on man." The blow out scenario is they swing with the team, you block with one person and then cast judgement to destroy their whole team and take no losses. And then you just don't do that if they have Demacia and 8 mana open.
Cards each faction has to beat judgement:
Noxus: Decisive Maneuver. 5 mana stun. Guile, kind of with caveats. Potentially Noxian Guillotine, or Whirling Death.
Demacia: A lot of these are partial saves, or maybes. Detain stops it in it's tracks and is a 5 cost spell. Single combat can kill the whirlwinder. Prismatic Barrier, Back to Back, Riposte, or Stand Alone could potentially save you. You could Whirlwind them in response!
Freljord: Shatter, Harsh Winds, Flash Freeze, or potentially Brittle Steel just shut it down. Battle Fury, Bloodsworn Pledge or possibly Elixir of Iron can save.
Shadow Isles: Shockingly maybe the worst but also maybe the least to lose from a judgement. Vengeance will of course give you a guaranteed 2 for 1. Possibly Grasp of the Undying, Vile Feast or Black Spear.
Ionia: The land of answers! Deny, Steel Tempest, or Will of Ionia win big. Recall or Shadowshift can save valuable targets, as can Stand United or Spirit's Refuge.
Piltover: Maybe the worst at this? Get excited or mystic shot are maybes. Thermogenic Beam could be a preemptive tool.
It's very dealwithable.
It doesn't matter if they have a whole turn because all their units are dead and given the speed at which you get cards back that late in the game, it's unlikely they'll be able to rebuild afterwards even if you have to wait the full go-round till the next time you can attack.
I'd also disagree it's the worst way to use the spell because it's often gonna come down to that. Especially if you follow your advice here and hold back while someone running Demacia is showing 8 mana and some cards in hand. Obviously you'd rather they attacked and then you kill all their stuff but the restrictions on Judgement mean you need them to go all in. Which means sometimes, and the more they are prepared for it the more often, you need to force the issue by going all in and making them either eat the face damage or take the risk and block.
It's not stupidly broken or anything but you need to have either been sitting on some kind of hard counter for awhile or you need to be keeping a Demacia player from building up a big beefy army like they love to do. Those 2 things do tend to run a bit counter to each other as well.
Elusive creatures pay for Elusive by having lower attack and defense for their cost, so you beat them either with removal (because your removal becomes far more efficient than their stats) or by just playing bigger creatures.
/stares at The Empyrean
I mean, with the lack of summoning sickness it doesn't really matter much anyway.
While there is no summoning sickness the defender does get access to full mana that turn. And if they play an elusive (which is the only way summoning sickness would matter), you don’t even need fast removal, you can use slow spells.
I do think they should have a “reach” mechanic.
They basically do with challenger
Challenger is weak to the “no summoning sickness” issue. Can’t do much against an Emperyan or the 6/6 elusive epic if your answer to elusive is challenger.
Yeah, challenger is good but requires you to have the attack and there's very few with the attack power to wipe out the bigger elusive units or a decently buffed one. There's a similar problem with a lot of the more common spells to inflict direct damage.
And, I think probably one of the issues exacerbating it all, is that it seems to me at least like the base of cards they start you with has better elusive units then it does challenger units.
I really appreciate the two-trial design of Expeditions. Just went (0 Wins)-(7 wins) in my last run.
First one I was trying to make an Ashe freeze deck with Rime Wolf (the challenger that kills 0 power guys) but it didn't really come together and I got wiped out in sad fashion.
Second trial I got a full-Demacia Fiora deck that was pretty stupid. Two Fioras along with all the Barriers and buffs and tricks you could want, followed by a third Fiora after the first win. In game 7 I had a 20/20 leveled Fiora on 3/4 kills. He had a single smallish unit. I decide to try to just smash the Nexus by using a different challenger on his defender, but he casts Will of Ionia (recall) on Fiora. Ok then, Judgement for the win! It was a pretty OP deck.
Really nice to have another crack at things after a washout first Trial.
After playing against someone doing a crimson deck, I'm dying to put together one of my own. I don't have a Vlad or any of the cards though, and I'm not even sure it's good, just looks very fun. Have any of you guys tried it yet?
Said fuck it and went full Spooder. Ranked up on ladder even against most Elusives and didn't feel bad doing it.
My current expedition I have 3 Elise, 3 brood awakening, and a smattering of other spiders. Mixed with Darius and various other aggro critters and lots of cheap attack buffs. 4-0 so far because nobody can stop it in time.
Ugh just got hit by a bug. Doing an expidition. Que for a game. Takes 2 minutes to load or so. Can see cards in my deck if I move my mouse around on the screen. At 2:30 matchmaking I say ok, it's bugged. Relog. Get a loss in the expedition. Sad.
After playing against someone doing a crimson deck, I'm dying to put together one of my own. I don't have a Vlad or any of the cards though, and I'm not even sure it's good, just looks very fun. Have any of you guys tried it yet?
In an expedition I had a Vlad/Braum 'self damage' deck, with a lot of the Frejlord cards that get buffed when they survive damage. Also Braum and the one other regeneration card from Frejlord. It worked really well, 6-7 wins.
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Oh no. It wasn't that. Auto-pass has always been turned off. In this game, the opponent literally attacked using the Laurent Challenger, pulled the only unit I had on the field, and the button resolved to SKIP BLOCK with no option to play my fast spell. And Relentless Pursuit is a fast spell, which means I should have been given priority back as soon as they played it (otherwise that would be really powerful and kind of broken).
Elusive has been getting me through a lot of expedition matches. Challenger generally seems like the closest counter vs other elusives or direct damage. Can't stop the attack, but can at least force some removing blocks on their part.
Deny is the best spell in the game.
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Judgement.
It's one of those "basically a game-winner" late-ish game cards most times you play it. At least in my experience.
I find it hilarious when used with a unit with lifesteal since you go straight back to 20 nexus health instantly.
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I believe that's Judgement and really the only counter for that is removal or Frostbite. Another big bomb spell card which really just swings a game from one side to the other.
I think they should look into increasing the costs of spells, forcing users to actually conserve Spell Mana. Right now, other than maximizing a turn, there's not a whole lot of reason to really be concerned with Spell Mana as a resource, especially in the later stages of a game. If Judgement for example cost like 10+ you would have some idea that it's coming if the opponent banked some mana a big spell turn might be coming up.
It's 7 mana, is inherently a two card combo, and is countered by many cheaper spells or by just not going all in if they have the mana up. It's fine.
Shadow Isles has the only true board wipe, right?
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Like I said, I'm talking about big bombs in general. And the cards you have to hard counter it aren't necessarily obvious for it. As mentioned above it's a card that usually swings a game and is only countered if you're expecting to need it (like would you really hold on to a Deny against a For Demacia expecting a Judgement later on).
At least imo the way it goes most of the time is you build up a decent army on the board and it's late game so some heavy-hitters have come out and people's hands are getting and their nexus's have taken some beating. Then you go all in on the attack. This forces them to block. Then you cast judgement and unless they can counter the spell, you should wipe out most of their team and either end it right there or at least have a really commanding position that will let you end it soon after.
That's the way you play it offensively at least afaik and it's hard to counter without some fast/burst frostbite in your pocket or some way to kill their units off faster then they can summon them (which is difficult late game because of how much mana you get)
Also, fyi, it's 8 mana.
At least not until I get better at remembering which regions certain spells fall under. There's definitely counters and if it becomes a meta thing in certain style decks, then you'll start to plan around them and save a frostbite or something (if that or deny are even things your deck can run). So far deny is really the only counterpell right?
Dusk and Dawn might be broken, but it’s also lead to the most fun boardstates I’ve seen. Flipped Teemo into Dusk and Dawn for 500 shrooms I’m deck (opponent drew 23 on his next card). Or flipped Karma into Dusk and Dawn into a nexus damage spell.
Of course, trying a few modified deck ideas I found did not save me from elusive spam. Right now I'm not really sure how you do anything about it unless when it pops up.
Also someone threw some more high-cost shadow isles bullshit at me. The Harrowing especially was a big old "Well, that's just a get 10 and I win ain't it?".
Avalanche would kill almost all evasives...
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/stares at The Empyrean
I mean, with the lack of summoning sickness it doesn't really matter much anyway.
While there is no summoning sickness the defender does get access to full mana that turn. And if they play an elusive (which is the only way summoning sickness would matter), you don’t even need fast removal, you can use slow spells.
I do think they should have a “reach” mechanic.
They basically do with challenger
Challenger is weak to the “no summoning sickness” issue. Can’t do much against an Emperyan or the 6/6 elusive epic if your answer to elusive is challenger.
Yes. First half of 2020, last they said.
This is maybe the worst way to use the spell since your whole team is still blocked so you wasted your attack token, 8 mana, to wipe the board and give them at least a turn to recover. It's still good but it's not the "jesus come on man." The blow out scenario is they swing with the team, you block with one person and then cast judgement to destroy their whole team and take no losses. And then you just don't do that if they have Demacia and 8 mana open.
Cards each faction has to beat judgement:
Noxus: Decisive Maneuver. 5 mana stun. Guile, kind of with caveats. Potentially Noxian Guillotine, or Whirling Death.
Demacia: A lot of these are partial saves, or maybes. Detain stops it in it's tracks and is a 5 cost spell. Single combat can kill the whirlwinder. Prismatic Barrier, Back to Back, Riposte, or Stand Alone could potentially save you. You could Whirlwind them in response!
Freljord: Shatter, Harsh Winds, Flash Freeze, or potentially Brittle Steel just shut it down. Battle Fury, Bloodsworn Pledge or possibly Elixir of Iron can save.
Shadow Isles: Shockingly maybe the worst but also maybe the least to lose from a judgement. Vengeance will of course give you a guaranteed 2 for 1. Possibly Grasp of the Undying, Vile Feast or Black Spear.
Ionia: The land of answers! Deny, Steel Tempest, or Will of Ionia win big. Recall or Shadowshift can save valuable targets, as can Stand United or Spirit's Refuge.
Piltover: Maybe the worst at this? Get excited or mystic shot are maybes. Thermogenic Beam could be a preemptive tool.
It's very dealwithable.
I haven’t played constructed in a few days, but expeditions decks didn’t feel that much worse than constructed one then.
I could see something like Vigilant: Can block Elusive attackers and cannot be targeted by Challenger.
Or Grounded: Cannot be recalled.
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Yes. I did that a page or two back.
Shockingly, elusive units that stack damage with nexus strike combined with cards that cast cheap spells can really add up fast. At least if you have some cheap removal spells you can actually kill most of them. (I ran into it in draft and so was fucked)
It doesn't matter if they have a whole turn because all their units are dead and given the speed at which you get cards back that late in the game, it's unlikely they'll be able to rebuild afterwards even if you have to wait the full go-round till the next time you can attack.
I'd also disagree it's the worst way to use the spell because it's often gonna come down to that. Especially if you follow your advice here and hold back while someone running Demacia is showing 8 mana and some cards in hand. Obviously you'd rather they attacked and then you kill all their stuff but the restrictions on Judgement mean you need them to go all in. Which means sometimes, and the more they are prepared for it the more often, you need to force the issue by going all in and making them either eat the face damage or take the risk and block.
It's not stupidly broken or anything but you need to have either been sitting on some kind of hard counter for awhile or you need to be keeping a Demacia player from building up a big beefy army like they love to do. Those 2 things do tend to run a bit counter to each other as well.
Yeah, challenger is good but requires you to have the attack and there's very few with the attack power to wipe out the bigger elusive units or a decently buffed one. There's a similar problem with a lot of the more common spells to inflict direct damage.
And, I think probably one of the issues exacerbating it all, is that it seems to me at least like the base of cards they start you with has better elusive units then it does challenger units.
absolute nut card
First one I was trying to make an Ashe freeze deck with Rime Wolf (the challenger that kills 0 power guys) but it didn't really come together and I got wiped out in sad fashion.
Second trial I got a full-Demacia Fiora deck that was pretty stupid. Two Fioras along with all the Barriers and buffs and tricks you could want, followed by a third Fiora after the first win. In game 7 I had a 20/20 leveled Fiora on 3/4 kills. He had a single smallish unit. I decide to try to just smash the Nexus by using a different challenger on his defender, but he casts Will of Ionia (recall) on Fiora. Ok then, Judgement for the win! It was a pretty OP deck.
Really nice to have another crack at things after a washout first Trial.
My current expedition I have 3 Elise, 3 brood awakening, and a smattering of other spiders. Mixed with Darius and various other aggro critters and lots of cheap attack buffs. 4-0 so far because nobody can stop it in time.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
In an expedition I had a Vlad/Braum 'self damage' deck, with a lot of the Frejlord cards that get buffed when they survive damage. Also Braum and the one other regeneration card from Frejlord. It worked really well, 6-7 wins.