Every time people lament the loss of the EU I am reminded of this picture
The vast majority of the EU was bad, had virtually no coordination, and wasn't any more "canon" than it is now under the Legends label. What's more, Disney selectively bringing back only the better aspects is leagues more than Lucas ever did with it.
Their record in five films so far has not been good. They need to get things fixed internally before doing more films. Maybe send some people to learn at the MCU and come back.
Could you imagine an MCU-style Star Wars universe? Movies on the missions of different people and crews, coming together every few years for a major endeavor, all done with a long-term story arc in mind. That would be amazing.
Honestly, Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4B, and seemed to have had no plan whatsoever of what to do with it. Their decision to scrap 30+ years of expanded universe completely and start with a blank slate shows they had no understanding of what they had bought.
The decision to flush the EU and selectively bring in the elements they liked is by far the best decision Disney has made. I can't even imagine trying to create content that aligns with some of the garbage in there.
They weren't selective, as far as I can tell. They just scrapped everything and started from zero.
Also, I'm not saying they should respect everything in the EU. I agree with you, there's some hot garbage in there. There's also some good stuff they could have used for inspiration, but didn't.
Hell, they didn't even have to draw inspiration from it. Just don't go out of your way to contradict and destroy it. Make movies that don't connect to it, and let it be. They have an entire galaxy and tens of thousands of years to pick from. They're leaving almost all of it untouched anyway.
Star Wars was three movies made in the 70s and 80s. That's not worth $4B. What made it valuable, what made it worthwhile writing books and making games and making shows and more movies, what made it worthwhile for Disney to shell out $4B for it and start making new theme parks around it, is the fan base it gathered. The fans are the ones quoting the movies, buying the crap, pushing it into popular culture. They are the ones who kept the franchise not just alive but growing over the 19 years between trilogies. And the fans are the ones making the universe, more so now than ever. Wiping out 30+ years of fan work was a surefire way of upsetting them, no matter what they created instead.
And like people said, what Disney created was garbage anyway. At least the EU was garbage the fans were happy with.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Their record in five films so far has not been good. They need to get things fixed internally before doing more films. Maybe send some people to learn at the MCU and come back.
Could you imagine an MCU-style Star Wars universe? Movies on the missions of different people and crews, coming together every few years for a major endeavor, all done with a long-term story arc in mind. That would be amazing.
Honestly, Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4B, and seemed to have had no plan whatsoever of what to do with it. Their decision to scrap 30+ years of expanded universe completely and start with a blank slate shows they had no understanding of what they had bought.
The decision to flush the EU and selectively bring in the elements they liked is by far the best decision Disney has made. I can't even imagine trying to create content that aligns with some of the garbage in there.
They weren't selective, as far as I can tell. They just scrapped everything and started from zero.
Also, I'm not saying they should respect everything in the EU. I agree with you, there's some hot garbage in there. There's also some good stuff they could have used for inspiration, but didn't.
Hell, they didn't even have to draw inspiration from it. Just don't go out of your way to contradict and destroy it. Make movies that don't connect to it, and let it be. They have an entire galaxy and tens of thousands of years to pick from. They're leaving almost all of it untouched anyway.
Star Wars was three movies made in the 70s and 80s. That's not worth $4B. What made it valuable, what made it worthwhile writing books and making games and making shows and more movies, what made it worthwhile for Disney to shell out $4B for it and start making new theme parks around it, is the fan base it gathered. The fans are the ones quoting the movies, buying the crap, pushing it into popular culture. They are the ones who kept the franchise not just alive but growing over the 19 years between trilogies. And the fans are the ones making the universe, more so now than ever. Wiping out 30+ years of fan work was a surefire way of upsetting them, no matter what they created instead.
And like people said, what Disney created was garbage anyway. At least the EU was garbage the fans were happy with.
We weren't happy with it! We complained about it all the time! It was just easier to ignore the bad stuff, because there was no ultraorganized push to enshrine the bad stuff.
The old EU could never get away from the OT heroes being the ones to save the day. They tried a couple of times. The ST gets points for that, at least. But it loses some of those for having Lando be the one to unite the galaxy.
Maybe Disney should have gone far enough beyond the OT that everyone was dead?
Luke and Leia could have always shown up as ghosts. Maybe have a recording of Han?
I get the impression it was designed for an even younger audience then the last few and when it comes to a lot of people, younger = "hilarious" Jar Jar hijinks.
I know plenty of friends with kids who watched it and their kids were like "mommy/daddy, why is Kaz so dumb?" And then they would want to watch something else.
Kids are smart, especially ones who have already been exposed to Star Wars, but if your character is too dumb for even 5 year olds you have a problem.
Oh totally. It's just that, like with Jar Jar, that's what a lot of people think kids like. There is a distressing number of people making kids entertainment that seem to lack an understanding of the kind of things kids are capable of understanding and dealing with.
In general I've always hated every "whacky clumsy" character in every kid's show for as long as I can remember.
Their record in five films so far has not been good. They need to get things fixed internally before doing more films. Maybe send some people to learn at the MCU and come back.
Could you imagine an MCU-style Star Wars universe? Movies on the missions of different people and crews, coming together every few years for a major endeavor, all done with a long-term story arc in mind. That would be amazing.
Honestly, Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4B, and seemed to have had no plan whatsoever of what to do with it. Their decision to scrap 30+ years of expanded universe completely and start with a blank slate shows they had no understanding of what they had bought.
The decision to flush the EU and selectively bring in the elements they liked is by far the best decision Disney has made. I can't even imagine trying to create content that aligns with some of the garbage in there.
The good decision is getting rid of the trash so they could write a new setting with a clean slate. The bad decision is the setting they wrote is also trash.
Eh. I think the way it all gets to the point we see in the ST is a bit JJ Abrams dumb (for obvious reasons) but in terms of a platform to build on, the setup created by both TFA and TLJ is really good for telling a bunch of Empire vs Rebels First Order vs Resistance stories in classic Star Wars fashion. TROS kinda ruins that but that's TROS for ya.
The old EU could never get away from the OT heroes being the ones to save the day. They tried a couple of times. The ST gets points for that, at least. But it loses some of those for having Lando be the one to unite the galaxy.
Maybe Disney should have gone far enough beyond the OT that everyone was dead?
Luke and Leia could have always shown up as ghosts. Maybe have a recording of Han?
I dunno.
Oh, or having the PT and OT events and heroes be misremembered legends from the distant past!
Their record in five films so far has not been good. They need to get things fixed internally before doing more films. Maybe send some people to learn at the MCU and come back.
Could you imagine an MCU-style Star Wars universe? Movies on the missions of different people and crews, coming together every few years for a major endeavor, all done with a long-term story arc in mind. That would be amazing.
Honestly, Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4B, and seemed to have had no plan whatsoever of what to do with it. Their decision to scrap 30+ years of expanded universe completely and start with a blank slate shows they had no understanding of what they had bought.
The decision to flush the EU and selectively bring in the elements they liked is by far the best decision Disney has made. I can't even imagine trying to create content that aligns with some of the garbage in there.
While I agree, I just wish they were more aggressive in their use of Zahn and KOTOR content.
As someone who's never been a Zahn fanboy, and who thinks that KOTOR stuff ranges from "just more of the OT but in a different timeframe" at best and "aggressively dumb" at worst: nah.
When the likes of TFA is your high bar, and it just gets sillier and stupider from there...
Their record in five films so far has not been good. They need to get things fixed internally before doing more films. Maybe send some people to learn at the MCU and come back.
Could you imagine an MCU-style Star Wars universe? Movies on the missions of different people and crews, coming together every few years for a major endeavor, all done with a long-term story arc in mind. That would be amazing.
Honestly, Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4B, and seemed to have had no plan whatsoever of what to do with it. Their decision to scrap 30+ years of expanded universe completely and start with a blank slate shows they had no understanding of what they had bought.
The decision to flush the EU and selectively bring in the elements they liked is by far the best decision Disney has made. I can't even imagine trying to create content that aligns with some of the garbage in there.
They didn't know what to do with it?
Bruh.
Star Wars is literally bigger and more expansive than ever before and its beyond obvious they had a plan for it. It's evident in everything they've done since the buyout. Just FYI the online "opinion" of the Disney era is not the same as the opinion of Star Wars fans on the whole. Every possible legit metric shows this. I know because I check all that stuff.
Also you guys have the EU wrong. The EU was never ever canon. It's only legitimacy was that it had a sort of semi-canon status due to being official LFL products. That has not changed. All they did was change the name AND THEN actually expand the canon to include things other than movies. Nothing has been "gotten rid of", the EU is exactly where it was before except with a different name and now they actually are expanding the canon with TV and books and comics and games. And BTW they changed the name in anticipation for all the non-movie stuff. At Galaxy's Edge right now they have Mandalorian merch in the "Expanded Universe" section, because that's what they are calling canon stuff that's not a movie now.
Listen I'm not calling you out for this personally, because it's a very common refrain on the internet and I don't blame you for it, but the idea that they didn't have a plan or they somehow de-canonized the EU despite it never being canon in the first place is pure nonsense conjecture pulled out of the asses of "experts" online who don't know what they're talking about but want to sound like they do anyway.
Edit: also, please do tell what all this "garbage" is so I can go through point by point and explain to you why that's not the case.
Their record in five films so far has not been good. They need to get things fixed internally before doing more films. Maybe send some people to learn at the MCU and come back.
Could you imagine an MCU-style Star Wars universe? Movies on the missions of different people and crews, coming together every few years for a major endeavor, all done with a long-term story arc in mind. That would be amazing.
Honestly, Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4B, and seemed to have had no plan whatsoever of what to do with it. Their decision to scrap 30+ years of expanded universe completely and start with a blank slate shows they had no understanding of what they had bought.
The decision to flush the EU and selectively bring in the elements they liked is by far the best decision Disney has made. I can't even imagine trying to create content that aligns with some of the garbage in there.
While I agree, I just wish they were more aggressive in their use of Zahn and KOTOR content.
As someone who's never been a Zahn fanboy, and who thinks that KOTOR stuff ranges from "just more of the OT but in a different timeframe" at best and "aggressively dumb" at worst: nah.
When the likes of TFA is your high bar, and it just gets sillier and stupider from there...
.....In your opinion (which is wrong... in my opinion).
I'm mainly glad they're moving away from Lucas's hardline stance that light side = good and dark side = evil, no exceptions.
It was never like that though. The light and the dark side are just two sides of the same coin. You can't really ascribe "good" or "evil" to them any more than you can ascribe those descriptors to gravity. Now the Jedi were good (for the most part, and no, Krell doesn't count) and they were lightside users, and the Sith were evil, and they were darkside users, so I guess you could look at it that way but in terms of The Force itself it has no "good" or "bad" side.
Also the Sith were something that existed outside/separate of the darkside. They corrupted the darkside (and the force in general) and bent it to their will... or they tried to at least. That's what Sheev could never figure out. Sure you can fuck with The Force a little bit and upset the balance, but it's gonna fuck with you 10x harder eventually.. whatever it takes to restore the balance. This is why the Sith had to be destroyed to bring balance to The Force, they were corrupting it. This is the entire point of the prophecy and Anakin's destiny, the entire Skywalker story yadayadayada. The state of the galaxy at the end of TROS is the state that The Living Force had been working towards for god knows how long, probably at least since the Sith came into being.
Edit: I post this regularly (because its glorious) but the bits where he talks about The Force are relevant to this convo so I will post it here too:
Lucas was definitely hard against that concept. After KOTOR exploded in popularity, he was asked if characters like Jolee Bindo would be showing up more and it was a hard no. His idea of "two sides of the same coin" still meant they were mutually exclusive.
On the other hand, it'd hardly be the first time he flip flopped on an idea.
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
Lucas was definitely hard against that concept. After KOTOR exploded in popularity, he was asked if characters like Jolee Bindo would be showing up more and it was a hard no. His idea of "two sides of the same coin" still meant they were mutually exclusive.
On the other hand, it'd hardly be the first time he flip flopped on an idea.
Right. It was was never ever canon though. They were just cool stories that you could take to heart if you wanted that had that weird pseudo-canon status unless they contradicted something that was actually canon. Nothing has changed there they just swapped the name from EU to Legends.
Edit: Now they are actually creating/building on the canon EU though in a cohesive way that actually makes sense. This is very much a good thing, not a bad one. We don't need another Chewie taking a moon to the face. Or 50 different writers all with completely different agendas. The old EU contradicts itself even more than it contradicts the canon stuff.
Edit2: btw sorry for the triple post. I just noticed that. My bad.
Edit3: and dont get me wrong, I love the old EU. Zahn is one of my favorite writers and Tales From The Bounty Hunters was really one of the first Star Wars books to really introduce me to the lore outside of the movies. But it is what it is, you can't change reality you just have to embrace it. It's for the best anyway.
Current canon very strongly leans towards balance including some amount of Dark, rather than rejecting it wholly. Hell, one of the super-in-balance Force Priestesses that teaches Yoda how to Force better is literally named Anger (Filoni has said in an interview the Force Priestesses were originally one being, which is weird and interesting but doesn't change my point I don't think).
Passions, especially purely negative ones like hate and sadism and obsession with pain, can be very dangerous and shouldn't be your prime motivator that you feed your being into. See: Sith, the Son
But rejecting all passion (and the Dark associated with it) makes you flawed even if it doesn't make you evil, and ends up exacerbating the imbalance which will destroy you eventually. See: The Jedi Order, the Daughter
I always find the focus on anger in the old Jedi Code particularly interesting in this context, because anger is born of the rejection of what is; a quite rational, even noble emotion in the face of injustice. Like, say, slavery (pick an example, Tatooine or the Clone Army).
The ideal Jedi of the Republic's Jedi Order is one who has no reason to act against injustice. Or do much of anything, except go with the flow (even when the flow leads to fighting an eternal war against your stated ideals that actually generates more chaos and Darkness and undermines your own narrow connection to the Force).
edit: And keep in mind Lucas was fairly involved with TCW and Filoni is like, his Star Wars disciple. This isn't a super recent thing.
The old EU could never get away from the OT heroes being the ones to save the day. They tried a couple of times. The ST gets points for that, at least. But it loses some of those for having Lando be the one to unite the galaxy.
Maybe Disney should have gone far enough beyond the OT that everyone was dead?
Luke and Leia could have always shown up as ghosts. Maybe have a recording of Han?
I dunno.
Man this would have been a great idea. I like the idea of a young scavenger a long ways down the line under the subjugation of the First Order who have always been and will always be. But, they stumble upon an old recording from a woman named Leia who brings hope and tells people not to give up in this dark time and that freedom and the Republic will come again only as long as hope remains and that all free people should meet at X planet for their last stand. The recording also has an odd metal cylinder and Rey is inspired with hope and meets a disaffected trooper who's willing to let her steal a ship on his watch as long as she takes him with her, anywhere but here. Then they follow the breadcrumbs with more recordings or force ghosts. Maybe they meet this hotshot pilot flying for some band of rebellious pirates, find this old weird bird symbol, Rey turns on the lightsaber, fights Kylo Ren and inspires the galaxy to rise up under that weird bird symbol, the trooper and pilot leading the new Resistance.
Since Disney took over, there is no EU. It is all just U. Everything is canon. Books, comics, cartoons, video games and movies. You can no longer say, "yeah, but that was in a book. It doesn't count."
Continuing to use the EU moniker when referring to Disney released products of any type is inaccurate and likely leading folks to think the wrong thing in discussion.
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
Since Disney took over, there is no EU. It is all just U. Everything is canon. Books, comics, cartoons, video games and movies. You can no longer say, "yeah, but that was in a book. It doesn't count."
Continuing to use the EU moniker when referring to Disney released products of any type is inaccurate and likely leading folks to think the wrong thing in discussion.
Except... yknow... They are literally calling it the EU now.
A shadows of the empire remake would have my interest solely for the fact that all of its set pieces and play modes we're good ideas crippled by early 3D walking tank game play.
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited February 2020
Go to Galaxy's Edge yourself. Check what section the new Mandalorian and other book/TV show merch is under? Which is a new thing?
It's all listed under Expanded Universe, and old EU stuff is listed under Legends.
Edit: I get that yall won't believe it until you see a press release or something, but that's exactly the type of place something like that would be unveiled first. It's a pretty safe bet that's what they are going for.
Edit: they are not just going to leave something like that as "canon". It's a brand, they are gonna give it a focus group friendly name.
Edit: Now they are actually creating/building on the canon EU though in a cohesive way that actually makes sense. This is very much a good thing, not a bad one. We don't need another Chewie taking a moon to the face. Or 50 different writers all with completely different agendas. The old EU contradicts itself even more than it contradicts the canon stuff.
They can't even manage to build their movie sequels in a cohesive way that actually makes sense.
A shadows of the empire remake would have my interest solely for the fact that all of its set pieces and play modes we're good ideas crippled by early 3D walking tank game play.
It had SO MANY bad camera options! I kind of enjoyed the option for POV seeker missiles (as impractical as it was because you lost all camera control of Dash while they were active), but the locked-off cinema camera angle was there for...people making their own RvB-esque movies?
Every time people lament the loss of the EU I am reminded of this picture
The vast majority of the EU was bad, had virtually no coordination, and wasn't any more "canon" than it is now under the Legends label. What's more, Disney selectively bringing back only the better aspects is leagues more than Lucas ever did with it.
That's throwing under the bus a huge number of stories that were damn good and beloved. Please don't generalize most of the old EU as bad. To a lot of us, it wasn't. That's a completely subjective view.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Oh man there's going to be so much "new EU" stuff. I mean, they'll need a whole set of novels and comics and TV shows to explain everything from Palpatine's return to 10,000 Super Death Star Destroyers to the Wayfinder to Sheev fucking to the Knights of Ren to Finn's secret to what Lando was doing the whole time to Poe's ne'er do well past!
These aren't plot holes and contrivances! They're just new EU stories waiting to be told!
Oh man there's going to be so much "new EU" stuff. I mean, they'll need a whole set of novels and comics and TV shows to explain everything from Palpatine's return to 10,000 Super Death Star Destroyers to the Wayfinder to Sheev fucking to the Knights of Ren to Finn's secret to what Lando was doing the whole time to Poe's ne'er do well past!
These aren't plot holes and contrivances! They're just new EU stories waiting to be told!
I'll remember that when you come back after raving about one of the games, shows or comics that fills in the gap. 😉
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Every time people lament the loss of the EU I am reminded of this picture
The vast majority of the EU was bad, had virtually no coordination, and wasn't any more "canon" than it is now under the Legends label. What's more, Disney selectively bringing back only the better aspects is leagues more than Lucas ever did with it.
That's throwing under the bus a huge number of stories that were damn good and beloved. Please don't generalize most of the old EU as bad. To a lot of us, it wasn't. That's a completely subjective view.
I mean, it was though. As someone who owns 50+ Star Wars Legends novels, perhaps half of which are actually good, the EU was full of warmed-over garbage. Not even hot garbage.
But this isn't even that big an insult when you consider that most of all media is actually bad. There are vastly more bad books, movies, shows, and music than good. Why should Star Wars be any different?
Potentium was always garbage! Even if the force itself wasn't inherently good or evil, the manner through which it was channeled altered the user. Turning life force into lightning to shoot dudes out of windows was deleterious. That's why Sith looked like dnd necromancers. They were toying with life and death if they drew on it too much.
Every time people lament the loss of the EU I am reminded of this picture
The vast majority of the EU was bad, had virtually no coordination, and wasn't any more "canon" than it is now under the Legends label. What's more, Disney selectively bringing back only the better aspects is leagues more than Lucas ever did with it.
That's throwing under the bus a huge number of stories that were damn good and beloved. Please don't generalize most of the old EU as bad. To a lot of us, it wasn't. That's a completely subjective view.
I mean, it was though. As someone who owns 50+ Star Wars Legends novels, perhaps half of which are actually good, the EU was full of warmed-over garbage. Not even hot garbage.
But this isn't even that big an insult when you consider that most of all media is actually bad. There are vastly more bad books, movies, shows, and music than good. Why should Star Wars be any different?
Is the Star Wars EU popular? Like, everyone knows Star Wars, but I dont know of anyone who even knows of the EU, with the exception of a couple of friends who are also comic book collectors and are super deep in the fandom.
Also, I dont know why it bothers me so much that a tag in a disney merch store is what defines the terms of the fandom thats been going for like 40 years.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Rise of sky walker used bits of Dark Empire, the thrown trilogy, and KOTOR all without giving the stolen plot points context of time to breathe.
Like, the EU has a lot of chaffe, but they literally stole major plots points from across the old EU to populate the last movie
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Every time people lament the loss of the EU I am reminded of this picture
The vast majority of the EU was bad, had virtually no coordination, and wasn't any more "canon" than it is now under the Legends label. What's more, Disney selectively bringing back only the better aspects is leagues more than Lucas ever did with it.
I had to go look this shit up it's so fucking ridiculous.
Additionally, lightsabers were installed in his elbows, forearms, wrists, and knees.
Get out. Seriously.
Who thought that up?
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited February 2020
The same Emperor Palpatine that decided to entrust the fate of his dumbass thousands-of-years-old to a dumbass Goonies-style-but-with-no-Goonies-quality clue chase.
So it makes a lot of sense, in that regard.
EDIT: Wait, no, I'm thinking of the other "character" in the EU with a ton of built-in lightsabers, which was a super-clone-body made by Palpatine on Coruscant and released by the Vong invasion and was basically just a mindless murder machine and had to be defeated by a group of Jedi who were on a Vongformed Coruscant for... reasons.
EDIT EDIT: Which is not to be confused with General Grievous, who simply wielded a lot of lightsabers, but didn't have them built-in.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
General Grievous is cool as heck tho, and those other fools are not.
I mean we make fun but we're still talkin' about it
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The vast majority of the EU was bad, had virtually no coordination, and wasn't any more "canon" than it is now under the Legends label. What's more, Disney selectively bringing back only the better aspects is leagues more than Lucas ever did with it.
They weren't selective, as far as I can tell. They just scrapped everything and started from zero.
Also, I'm not saying they should respect everything in the EU. I agree with you, there's some hot garbage in there. There's also some good stuff they could have used for inspiration, but didn't.
Hell, they didn't even have to draw inspiration from it. Just don't go out of your way to contradict and destroy it. Make movies that don't connect to it, and let it be. They have an entire galaxy and tens of thousands of years to pick from. They're leaving almost all of it untouched anyway.
Star Wars was three movies made in the 70s and 80s. That's not worth $4B. What made it valuable, what made it worthwhile writing books and making games and making shows and more movies, what made it worthwhile for Disney to shell out $4B for it and start making new theme parks around it, is the fan base it gathered. The fans are the ones quoting the movies, buying the crap, pushing it into popular culture. They are the ones who kept the franchise not just alive but growing over the 19 years between trilogies. And the fans are the ones making the universe, more so now than ever. Wiping out 30+ years of fan work was a surefire way of upsetting them, no matter what they created instead.
And like people said, what Disney created was garbage anyway. At least the EU was garbage the fans were happy with.
We weren't happy with it! We complained about it all the time! It was just easier to ignore the bad stuff, because there was no ultraorganized push to enshrine the bad stuff.
Maybe Disney should have gone far enough beyond the OT that everyone was dead?
Luke and Leia could have always shown up as ghosts. Maybe have a recording of Han?
I dunno.
Oh totally. It's just that, like with Jar Jar, that's what a lot of people think kids like. There is a distressing number of people making kids entertainment that seem to lack an understanding of the kind of things kids are capable of understanding and dealing with.
In general I've always hated every "whacky clumsy" character in every kid's show for as long as I can remember.
Eh. I think the way it all gets to the point we see in the ST is a bit JJ Abrams dumb (for obvious reasons) but in terms of a platform to build on, the setup created by both TFA and TLJ is really good for telling a bunch of Empire vs Rebels First Order vs Resistance stories in classic Star Wars fashion. TROS kinda ruins that but that's TROS for ya.
Oh, or having the PT and OT events and heroes be misremembered legends from the distant past!
Believe.
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As someone who's never been a Zahn fanboy, and who thinks that KOTOR stuff ranges from "just more of the OT but in a different timeframe" at best and "aggressively dumb" at worst: nah.
When the likes of TFA is your high bar, and it just gets sillier and stupider from there...
Ezra is a children's show character. Captain Doza is a children's show character. Kaz is just a poorly written idiot.
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They didn't know what to do with it?
Bruh.
Star Wars is literally bigger and more expansive than ever before and its beyond obvious they had a plan for it. It's evident in everything they've done since the buyout. Just FYI the online "opinion" of the Disney era is not the same as the opinion of Star Wars fans on the whole. Every possible legit metric shows this. I know because I check all that stuff.
Also you guys have the EU wrong. The EU was never ever canon. It's only legitimacy was that it had a sort of semi-canon status due to being official LFL products. That has not changed. All they did was change the name AND THEN actually expand the canon to include things other than movies. Nothing has been "gotten rid of", the EU is exactly where it was before except with a different name and now they actually are expanding the canon with TV and books and comics and games. And BTW they changed the name in anticipation for all the non-movie stuff. At Galaxy's Edge right now they have Mandalorian merch in the "Expanded Universe" section, because that's what they are calling canon stuff that's not a movie now.
Listen I'm not calling you out for this personally, because it's a very common refrain on the internet and I don't blame you for it, but the idea that they didn't have a plan or they somehow de-canonized the EU despite it never being canon in the first place is pure nonsense conjecture pulled out of the asses of "experts" online who don't know what they're talking about but want to sound like they do anyway.
Edit: also, please do tell what all this "garbage" is so I can go through point by point and explain to you why that's not the case.
.....In your opinion (which is wrong... in my opinion).
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It was never like that though. The light and the dark side are just two sides of the same coin. You can't really ascribe "good" or "evil" to them any more than you can ascribe those descriptors to gravity. Now the Jedi were good (for the most part, and no, Krell doesn't count) and they were lightside users, and the Sith were evil, and they were darkside users, so I guess you could look at it that way but in terms of The Force itself it has no "good" or "bad" side.
Also the Sith were something that existed outside/separate of the darkside. They corrupted the darkside (and the force in general) and bent it to their will... or they tried to at least. That's what Sheev could never figure out. Sure you can fuck with The Force a little bit and upset the balance, but it's gonna fuck with you 10x harder eventually.. whatever it takes to restore the balance. This is why the Sith had to be destroyed to bring balance to The Force, they were corrupting it. This is the entire point of the prophecy and Anakin's destiny, the entire Skywalker story yadayadayada. The state of the galaxy at the end of TROS is the state that The Living Force had been working towards for god knows how long, probably at least since the Sith came into being.
Edit: I post this regularly (because its glorious) but the bits where he talks about The Force are relevant to this convo so I will post it here too:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/B3aUrNoFE5S/
"All these video games have fucked people up on what The Force is"
-Kanan Jarrus
Rock on, Kanan, rock on.
Edit2: if someone can make that embed for me it would be much appreciated. I'm not familiar with IG.
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On the other hand, it'd hardly be the first time he flip flopped on an idea.
Right. It was was never ever canon though. They were just cool stories that you could take to heart if you wanted that had that weird pseudo-canon status unless they contradicted something that was actually canon. Nothing has changed there they just swapped the name from EU to Legends.
Edit: Now they are actually creating/building on the canon EU though in a cohesive way that actually makes sense. This is very much a good thing, not a bad one. We don't need another Chewie taking a moon to the face. Or 50 different writers all with completely different agendas. The old EU contradicts itself even more than it contradicts the canon stuff.
Edit2: btw sorry for the triple post. I just noticed that. My bad.
Edit3: and dont get me wrong, I love the old EU. Zahn is one of my favorite writers and Tales From The Bounty Hunters was really one of the first Star Wars books to really introduce me to the lore outside of the movies. But it is what it is, you can't change reality you just have to embrace it. It's for the best anyway.
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Passions, especially purely negative ones like hate and sadism and obsession with pain, can be very dangerous and shouldn't be your prime motivator that you feed your being into. See: Sith, the Son
But rejecting all passion (and the Dark associated with it) makes you flawed even if it doesn't make you evil, and ends up exacerbating the imbalance which will destroy you eventually. See: The Jedi Order, the Daughter
I always find the focus on anger in the old Jedi Code particularly interesting in this context, because anger is born of the rejection of what is; a quite rational, even noble emotion in the face of injustice. Like, say, slavery (pick an example, Tatooine or the Clone Army).
The ideal Jedi of the Republic's Jedi Order is one who has no reason to act against injustice. Or do much of anything, except go with the flow (even when the flow leads to fighting an eternal war against your stated ideals that actually generates more chaos and Darkness and undermines your own narrow connection to the Force).
edit: And keep in mind Lucas was fairly involved with TCW and Filoni is like, his Star Wars disciple. This isn't a super recent thing.
Man this would have been a great idea. I like the idea of a young scavenger a long ways down the line under the subjugation of the First Order who have always been and will always be. But, they stumble upon an old recording from a woman named Leia who brings hope and tells people not to give up in this dark time and that freedom and the Republic will come again only as long as hope remains and that all free people should meet at X planet for their last stand. The recording also has an odd metal cylinder and Rey is inspired with hope and meets a disaffected trooper who's willing to let her steal a ship on his watch as long as she takes him with her, anywhere but here. Then they follow the breadcrumbs with more recordings or force ghosts. Maybe they meet this hotshot pilot flying for some band of rebellious pirates, find this old weird bird symbol, Rey turns on the lightsaber, fights Kylo Ren and inspires the galaxy to rise up under that weird bird symbol, the trooper and pilot leading the new Resistance.
Continuing to use the EU moniker when referring to Disney released products of any type is inaccurate and likely leading folks to think the wrong thing in discussion.
Except... yknow... They are literally calling it the EU now.
In other news, OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOD
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Come Overwatch with meeeee
It's all listed under Expanded Universe, and old EU stuff is listed under Legends.
Edit: I get that yall won't believe it until you see a press release or something, but that's exactly the type of place something like that would be unveiled first. It's a pretty safe bet that's what they are going for.
Edit: they are not just going to leave something like that as "canon". It's a brand, they are gonna give it a focus group friendly name.
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They can't even manage to build their movie sequels in a cohesive way that actually makes sense.
It had SO MANY bad camera options! I kind of enjoyed the option for POV seeker missiles (as impractical as it was because you lost all camera control of Dash while they were active), but the locked-off cinema camera angle was there for...people making their own RvB-esque movies?
God, I love that wacky early 3D game.
That's throwing under the bus a huge number of stories that were damn good and beloved. Please don't generalize most of the old EU as bad. To a lot of us, it wasn't. That's a completely subjective view.
These aren't plot holes and contrivances! They're just new EU stories waiting to be told!
I'll remember that when you come back after raving about one of the games, shows or comics that fills in the gap. 😉
I mean, it was though. As someone who owns 50+ Star Wars Legends novels, perhaps half of which are actually good, the EU was full of warmed-over garbage. Not even hot garbage.
But this isn't even that big an insult when you consider that most of all media is actually bad. There are vastly more bad books, movies, shows, and music than good. Why should Star Wars be any different?
90% of everything...
Of course, the mere fact that it's bad doesn't mean it can't also be entertaining, beloved and have a strong emotional connection.
Come at me
Also, I dont know why it bothers me so much that a tag in a disney merch store is what defines the terms of the fandom thats been going for like 40 years.
Like, the EU has a lot of chaffe, but they literally stole major plots points from across the old EU to populate the last movie
I had to go look this shit up it's so fucking ridiculous.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Irek_Ismaren
Get out. Seriously.
Who thought that up?
So it makes a lot of sense, in that regard.
EDIT: Wait, no, I'm thinking of the other "character" in the EU with a ton of built-in lightsabers, which was a super-clone-body made by Palpatine on Coruscant and released by the Vong invasion and was basically just a mindless murder machine and had to be defeated by a group of Jedi who were on a Vongformed Coruscant for... reasons.
EDIT EDIT: Which is not to be confused with General Grievous, who simply wielded a lot of lightsabers, but didn't have them built-in.