Yeah, "fuck you, Tidus" just means I'm a generic human being.
Because seriously, fuck you, Tidus. Boo fucking hoo, your superstar dad disappeared and you live the life of a sports god. Really feel a lot of sympathy for you as you tag along with the girl literally raised as a human sacrifice for her entire life but still loves everyone around her. Oh, and her dad died doing the same job she does. And she lives in a world of misery and pain if somebody doesn't manage to make this sacrifice every generation. And her last request is to have all her friends and family with her for her final journey.
But that’s his arc. Like, Tidus acknowledges this and commits fully to the cause because of Yuna’s Heroism. Tidus is one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters, and I think the success of FFX is largely due to his character arc. I get that he’s kinda whiny and immature, but good characters need flaws in order to have development.
The guy was thirty hours of power drill straight in my ear, even when he gets "better". "Unlikeable little shit" just does not fly for me when the arc changes him to "unlikeable little shit who should've started changing a couple dozen hours ago instead of in the last couple hours of the story".
He doesn't even try to actually understand the world he's in, he just whines and complains until reality finally beats him over the head enough to pay attention to anyone else for five seconds.
Honestly, Yuna was better off with the guy disappearing into nothing because there's no way she did anything awful enough to deserve getting stuck with Tidus.
Tidus not understanding the world is the key to it finally changing. Everyone else who lives there just accepts a lot of dogma and bullshit and Tidus is the one (heavily prodded by Auron's secret agenda) to finally bring it all to an end.
+11
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I missed it but yeah I wanted to say fuck Cait Sith.
You know the thing I hated was like after the kidnapping and his "redemption" he is pretty much immaterial to the plot anyway.
So the fact I wasn't even given the option to jettison his annoying ass sucked even more.
He wasn't immaterial. It was after that that he was actually more useful as a spy on Shinra's board meetings. You only found out about the huge materia and sister ray plans thanks to him.
klemming on
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+5
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
He wasn't immaterial. It was after that that he was actually more useful as a spy on Shnira's board meetings. You only found out about the huge materia and sister ray plans thanks to him.
Eh, I'll give you that but those things could have been easily given in another way and I wouldn't have to deal with his stupid face.
Honestly, Yuna was better off with the guy disappearing into nothing because there's no way she did anything awful enough to deserve getting stuck with Tidus.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited February 2020
Oh yeah I forgot I totally wanted to jettison Yuffie too.
My ranking for FF7 team members was always.
Cloud - His nonchalant, emo boy attitude was kind of whatever but he was the protagonist and the cover art of him with the buster sword sold me on him. Also he has some of the most iconic moments in a FF game period.
Red XIII - Talking Doggie was awesome.
Tifa - Punchy waifu was also awesome.
Barrett - He loses points for basically being a Mr. T caricature but he was also reliable and I really liked his character arch.
Vincent - I wasn't into his dark and broody vampire guy sthick as much as some and his limit while cool in theory actually sucked. But he's cool.
Aerith - She was cool for the time she was there but I can't say I felt that strongly about her.
>>>>>>> Literal Trash >>>>>>>
Yuffie - Annoying thief, don't care that she was doing it for her village or whatever. Only ever recruit her for completionist reasons.
Cid - Abusive jerk. After his side story finished I proceeded not to care about him at all.
I’m struggling to think of a FF character I hate. Sure some of them are much better written than others, and I’m pretty meh on a lot of the characters (especially the joke ones like Cait Sith and Quina) but there’s no one who really ruins the play experience for me. I’m not an especially big fan of FFXIII for instance; I think Lightning is overrated for all the same reasons that I think Cloud is. I hate how her backstory is revealed and the general structure & pacing of FFXIII as a whole, but I don’t hate any of the characters within. My brother on the other hand refuses to finish the game because of Hope, and I just don’t understand that feeling.
I think Cloud is a lot less emo boy than most people remember (thanks, Advent Children). A lot of the time he's a dork, he's got some great banter with the rest of the cast, and I feel like he's got a lot more to him than Sad Anime Protagonist.
I really hope they keep the original characterization and not the Compilation Sadboi stuff.
I think what the compilation struggled with is the question of how much dorkboy was really Zack rather than Cloud. We don't get all that much dialog from him after he recovers from falling in the lifestream, and none of it was very toughguy (to the point Barret has to kick him for "let's mosey.")
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
edited February 2020
On FFX: "Luckily, Square would learn from its mistake and never have a bland, smiling nothing of a main character at the expense of the expanded cast ever again."
*sweats*
Ilpala on
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
+2
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
FFX was a great game with a great cast.
I would even say it's one of the best overall FF games.
He wasn't immaterial. It was after that that he was actually more useful as a spy on Shinra's board meetings. You only found out about the huge materia and sister ray plans thanks to him.
That second point is probably a lot less useful if you think about it though. Since you could basically find out the entirety of Shinra's military plan for the Mako Canon based on:
1) Is the Mako Canon no long in Junon? It isn't? Oh my, where could it be? Good thing it's a substantial geographic feature, so you can see it in Midgar...from anywhere you can see the city of Midgar over the horizon.
2) What is Shinra doing with it? Well, we've already witnessed it first hand kill a WEAPON in Junon, and Shinra's military campaign against Sephiroth and Jenova isn't a secret. So it's probably related to that...
3) Considering points one and two, what are they doing with it specifically? Well, if it's pointed at the Northern Crater...they're probably going to fire it at Sephiroth at the Northern Crater!
Cait Sith does deliver more useful information, like Aerith's whereabouts, though. Barrett being a Mr. T caricature is very much an American invention, whereas in Japanese he's a big scary black man who sounds like Kurt Russell circa Escape from New York (or like a slightly more coherent version of Solid Snake). Moderately different.
Synthesis on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Also I think Tidus is actually one of the more interesting FFX protagonists.
I really enjoyed how he went from being self-absorbed brat with daddy issues to self-sacrificing hero and friend.
I would even say it's one of the best overall FF games.
It is my favorite FF. 6 is a close second that recently slipped from first because as much as the art, writing, and music is really good, the mechanics aged terribly and feel worse every year.
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
On FFX: "Luckily, Square would learn from its mistake and never have a bland, smiling nothing of a main character at the expense of the expanded cast ever again."
*sweats*
Considering how much more I enjoyed the intentional goofiness of X-2 (along with the gameplay and quality-of-life improvements) over X, I probably fall pretty firm into the group who didn't miss Tidus and found him to be much more likable in better written second-hand accounts from better characters.
I probably missed prejudiced Underwater-Soccer-Playing Island Bender more than Tidus.
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
Verbal tics at the end of sentences like that seem to be really common in a lot of anime, and they feel weirder in English. Especially in the first voiced FF.
+2
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
Verbal tics at the end of sentences like that seem to be really common in a lot of anime, and they feel weirder in English. Especially in the first voiced FF.
Those added words are pretty annoying and to me mark poor localization. Instead of making the translation work in a seamless way that makes sense, they just add filler words to pad out the extra syllables so the lip syncing kinda works.
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
Verbal tics at the end of sentences like that seem to be really common in a lot of anime, and they feel weirder in English. Especially in the first voiced FF.
It's mostly the syllable "ne" in Japanese and yes it's that common. Chalk it up to over literal localization.
+8
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
Verbal tics at the end of sentences like that seem to be really common in a lot of anime, and they feel weirder in English. Especially in the first voiced FF.
I REALLY wonder why that is. Like is it at all an actual thing among real people? If not, what is the genesis of that trend?
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
I liked Wakka, he's a good "friendly bro" archetype.
Been too long since I've played it, I honestly can't remember if he actually got over his racism, or if that's just my headcanon.
He's definitely trying by the end of the game but still occasionally slips up on shit like trying to cheer Rikku up after Home exploded by being like "Come on, it's not so bad. Boom! Like happy festival fireworks, ya?"
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
Verbal tics at the end of sentences like that seem to be really common in a lot of anime, and they feel weirder in English. Especially in the first voiced FF.
I REALLY wonder why that is. Like is it at all an actual thing among real people? If not, what is the genesis of that trend?
Well, I'm not a linguist, but as a foreign ESOL speaker living in the Southern United States, end-of-sentence verbal tics are definitely a thing in English too. In real life, and not fiction. "You know," "Like," and "Y'all" are at the top of the list. Maybe it's less common elsewhere in the country (like the use of "Y'all"), but it's definitely a thing in Georgia, especially among longer residents.
In fact, as irritating as I find Tidus, I don't think it's particularly from his dialog in the script. Other characters have worse writing. The actual delivery, as in the intonations, is off-putting though.
Tidus the narrator is so much better than Tidus the character. Better dialogue, better delivery, better acting.
Narrator isn't pacing to match lips synced to JP. The code had issues with that iirc and they couldn't resync them? So the VA work suffered to not break the game.
I’m struggling to think of a FF character I hate. Sure some of them are much better written than others, and I’m pretty meh on a lot of the characters (especially the joke ones like Cait Sith and Quina) but there’s no one who really ruins the play experience for me. I’m not an especially big fan of FFXIII for instance; I think Lightning is overrated for all the same reasons that I think Cloud is. I hate how her backstory is revealed and the general structure & pacing of FFXIII as a whole, but I don’t hate any of the characters within. My brother on the other hand refuses to finish the game because of Hope, and I just don’t understand that feeling.
Tidus the narrator is so much better than Tidus the character. Better dialogue, better delivery, better acting.
Narrator isn't pacing to match lips synced to JP. The code had issues with that iirc and they couldn't resync them? So the VA work suffered to not break the game.
I know there's a technical reason for it but I'd forgotten just how big the difference was until I started my recent replay.
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
I guess I could say I hate Noctis but really I hate his role in the story more than anything. It never feels like anything he's doing is his decision. Everyone else is just ushering him from place to place. What makes it egregious compared to Tidus/X and Vaan/XII is that this time it actually IS the "important" character being treated this way.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
My favorite thing so far in XV is how some characters continue to look and talk like they are in a High Fantasy classical FF story, and then Noctis responds like a millenial, turns around, and goes to talk to the literal trucker stereotype standing like two feet away.
Like, cutting away from our punk band diner roadtrip to Evil McEvil Faces with their ridiculous steampunk aristocrat outfits is a trip.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
I'm sure the reason that FFXV is my favorite entry in the franchise in recent memory, despite the combat being too much like Kingdom Hearts for my enjoyment, is it actually taking the extremely difficult road of trying to have something vaguely resembling a relate-able, urban, 20th and 21st century open world setting, unlike the flood of RPGs that are content to tackle their own flavor of psuedo-medieval European fantasy.
It doesn't always succeed, by any means, but attempting to do so, while remaining very much a Final Fantasy game, strikes me as being a enormous challenge, and I'm impressed it took it on.
I guess I could say I hate Noctis but really I hate his role in the story more than anything. It never feels like anything he's doing is his decision. Everyone else is just ushering him from place to place. What makes it egregious compared to Tidus/X and Vaan/XII is that this time it actually IS the "important" character being treated this way.
For me, it's much simpler... none of the main characters in XV - outside of Ardyn - have any redeeming qualities.
Noctis is ostensibly the main protagonist, but like you say, he has 0 agency for most of the game. Even worse, he's essentially a silent protagonist until the road trip segment ends. The game, though Gladio, tells us that his silence (and out-of-place complaining during the Titan encounter) is due to him being a spoiled, aloof prince, but outside of that there's literally nothing that gives us any insight into his feelings, attitude, or point of view. He's just there, as an object, to be shoved into certain plot-necessary situations. It's only when Ardyn kidnaps Prompto and otherwise starts needling Noctis that he begins to show something of a personality. But, by then, it's far too little far too late.
Gladio is the 'older brother' character, but I find him to be an asshole hypocritical bully. He chastises Noctis for being selfish and aloof, but does nothing to curb that behavior. Instead, he decides to jump down Noctis' throat the first painful moment he realizes that it's not just about him, kicking him while he's at his most vulnerable. His 'tough love' is neither. He's a coward.
Ignis is supposed to be the smart one. Huh? What does he do that's particularly cunning? Nothing that I can see (heh). His one shining moment is being the only adult in the room and telling Gladio and Noctis to cut the shit. Beyond that, he might as well not be there for all the presence he has.
Prompto is the low self-esteem, desperate for approval chatterbox. Even after the heart-to-heart with Noctis on the roof of the inn, where you have a chance to tell him "Hey, man, it's okay... you don't need to try so hard" he just remains the same. Annoying.
I wish there was an option to drive the car into the ocean or into a volcano.
I guess I could say I hate Noctis but really I hate his role in the story more than anything. It never feels like anything he's doing is his decision. Everyone else is just ushering him from place to place. What makes it egregious compared to Tidus/X and Vaan/XII is that this time it actually IS the "important" character being treated this way.
For me, it's much simpler... none of the main characters in XV - outside of Ardyn - have any redeeming qualities.
Noctis is ostensibly the main protagonist, but like you say, he has 0 agency for most of the game. Even worse, he's essentially a silent protagonist until the road trip segment ends. The game, though Gladio, tells us that his silence (and out-of-place complaining during the Titan encounter) is due to him being a spoiled, aloof prince, but outside of that there's literally nothing that gives us any insight into his feelings, attitude, or point of view. He's just there, as an object, to be shoved into certain plot-necessary situations. It's only when Ardyn kidnaps Prompto and otherwise starts needling Noctis that he begins to show something of a personality. But, by then, it's far too little far too late.
Gladio is the 'older brother' character, but I find him to be an asshole hypocritical bully. He chastises Noctis for being selfish and aloof, but does nothing to curb that behavior. Instead, he decides to jump down Noctis' throat the first painful moment he realizes that it's not just about him, kicking him while he's at his most vulnerable. His 'tough love' is neither. He's a coward.
Ignis is supposed to be the smart one. Huh? What does he do that's particularly cunning? Nothing that I can see (heh). His one shining moment is being the only adult in the room and telling Gladio and Noctis to cut the shit. Beyond that, he might as well not be there for all the presence he has.
Prompto is the low self-esteem, desperate for approval chatterbox. Even after the heart-to-heart with Noctis on the roof of the inn, where you have a chance to tell him "Hey, man, it's okay... you don't need to try so hard" he just remains the same. Annoying.
I wish there was an option to drive the car into the ocean or into a volcano.
God Gladio is just the worst
The section right after fakeVenice where Luna dies and he's just berating Noctis is ugh so bad
All of Ardyn's allegedly redeeming qualities are overshadowed by him being obnoxious as hell throughout the entire game. :biggrin:
Given how terrible everyone else in the game is, I don't blame him for trolling the shit out of them.
I also forgive him because he looks like a more pimped out version of Tom Baker's Doctor Who.
It's an impressive feat that he even manages to look more obnoxious than everyone else in the game. Not only did he win the "Most Obnoxious Douche in the World" contest, not only did his obnoxiousness actually pose an existential threat to human life, he dressed the part on top of that. S-E hit their mark, and they succeeded.
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Tidus not understanding the world is the key to it finally changing. Everyone else who lives there just accepts a lot of dogma and bullshit and Tidus is the one (heavily prodded by Auron's secret agenda) to finally bring it all to an end.
You know the thing I hated was like after the kidnapping and his "redemption" he is pretty much immaterial to the plot anyway.
So the fact I wasn't even given the option to jettison his annoying ass sucked even more.
I've read that doujinshi.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Eh, I'll give you that but those things could have been easily given in another way and I wouldn't have to deal with his stupid face.
Shoulda left her whiny annoying ass in the goddamn forest
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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My ranking for FF7 team members was always.
Cloud - His nonchalant, emo boy attitude was kind of whatever but he was the protagonist and the cover art of him with the buster sword sold me on him. Also he has some of the most iconic moments in a FF game period.
Red XIII - Talking Doggie was awesome.
Tifa - Punchy waifu was also awesome.
Barrett - He loses points for basically being a Mr. T caricature but he was also reliable and I really liked his character arch.
Vincent - I wasn't into his dark and broody vampire guy sthick as much as some and his limit while cool in theory actually sucked. But he's cool.
Aerith - She was cool for the time she was there but I can't say I felt that strongly about her.
>>>>>>> Literal Trash >>>>>>>
Yuffie - Annoying thief, don't care that she was doing it for her village or whatever. Only ever recruit her for completionist reasons.
Cid - Abusive jerk. After his side story finished I proceeded not to care about him at all.
Cait Sith - God, I hate this character.
I really hope they keep the original characterization and not the Compilation Sadboi stuff.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
*sweats*
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
I would even say it's one of the best overall FF games.
That second point is probably a lot less useful if you think about it though. Since you could basically find out the entirety of Shinra's military plan for the Mako Canon based on:
1) Is the Mako Canon no long in Junon? It isn't? Oh my, where could it be? Good thing it's a substantial geographic feature, so you can see it in Midgar...from anywhere you can see the city of Midgar over the horizon.
2) What is Shinra doing with it? Well, we've already witnessed it first hand kill a WEAPON in Junon, and Shinra's military campaign against Sephiroth and Jenova isn't a secret. So it's probably related to that...
3) Considering points one and two, what are they doing with it specifically? Well, if it's pointed at the Northern Crater...they're probably going to fire it at Sephiroth at the Northern Crater!
Cait Sith does deliver more useful information, like Aerith's whereabouts, though. Barrett being a Mr. T caricature is very much an American invention, whereas in Japanese he's a big scary black man who sounds like Kurt Russell circa Escape from New York (or like a slightly more coherent version of Solid Snake). Moderately different.
I really enjoyed how he went from being self-absorbed brat with daddy issues to self-sacrificing hero and friend.
Considering how much more I enjoyed the intentional goofiness of X-2 (along with the gameplay and quality-of-life improvements) over X, I probably fall pretty firm into the group who didn't miss Tidus and found him to be much more likable in better written second-hand accounts from better characters.
I probably missed prejudiced Underwater-Soccer-Playing Island Bender more than Tidus.
Verbal tics at the end of sentences like that seem to be really common in a lot of anime, and they feel weirder in English. Especially in the first voiced FF.
Lets not say anything rash, no one misses Wakka, in Spira or the Destiny Islands.
But I'm with you on X-2, the Dress Sphere is civilization.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Those added words are pretty annoying and to me mark poor localization. Instead of making the translation work in a seamless way that makes sense, they just add filler words to pad out the extra syllables so the lip syncing kinda works.
It's mostly the syllable "ne" in Japanese and yes it's that common. Chalk it up to over literal localization.
I REALLY wonder why that is. Like is it at all an actual thing among real people? If not, what is the genesis of that trend?
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Been too long since I've played it, I honestly can't remember if he actually got over his racism, or if that's just my headcanon.
He's definitely trying by the end of the game but still occasionally slips up on shit like trying to cheer Rikku up after Home exploded by being like "Come on, it's not so bad. Boom! Like happy festival fireworks, ya?"
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
It's more to demonstrate how little I miss Tidus--even worse Bender was better--but point taken.
Well, I'm not a linguist, but as a foreign ESOL speaker living in the Southern United States, end-of-sentence verbal tics are definitely a thing in English too. In real life, and not fiction. "You know," "Like," and "Y'all" are at the top of the list. Maybe it's less common elsewhere in the country (like the use of "Y'all"), but it's definitely a thing in Georgia, especially among longer residents.
In fact, as irritating as I find Tidus, I don't think it's particularly from his dialog in the script. Other characters have worse writing. The actual delivery, as in the intonations, is off-putting though.
Narrator isn't pacing to match lips synced to JP. The code had issues with that iirc and they couldn't resync them? So the VA work suffered to not break the game.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
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PSN: AbEntropy
I hated everyone except Ardyn in XV.
I know there's a technical reason for it but I'd forgotten just how big the difference was until I started my recent replay.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Like, cutting away from our punk band diner roadtrip to Evil McEvil Faces with their ridiculous steampunk aristocrat outfits is a trip.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
It doesn't always succeed, by any means, but attempting to do so, while remaining very much a Final Fantasy game, strikes me as being a enormous challenge, and I'm impressed it took it on.
For me, it's much simpler... none of the main characters in XV - outside of Ardyn - have any redeeming qualities.
Gladio is the 'older brother' character, but I find him to be an asshole hypocritical bully. He chastises Noctis for being selfish and aloof, but does nothing to curb that behavior. Instead, he decides to jump down Noctis' throat the first painful moment he realizes that it's not just about him, kicking him while he's at his most vulnerable. His 'tough love' is neither. He's a coward.
Ignis is supposed to be the smart one. Huh? What does he do that's particularly cunning? Nothing that I can see (heh). His one shining moment is being the only adult in the room and telling Gladio and Noctis to cut the shit. Beyond that, he might as well not be there for all the presence he has.
Prompto is the low self-esteem, desperate for approval chatterbox. Even after the heart-to-heart with Noctis on the roof of the inn, where you have a chance to tell him "Hey, man, it's okay... you don't need to try so hard" he just remains the same. Annoying.
I wish there was an option to drive the car into the ocean or into a volcano.
Given how terrible everyone else in the game is, I don't blame him for trolling the shit out of them.
I also forgive him because he looks like a more pimped out version of Tom Baker's Doctor Who.
God Gladio is just the worst
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
It's an impressive feat that he even manages to look more obnoxious than everyone else in the game. Not only did he win the "Most Obnoxious Douche in the World" contest, not only did his obnoxiousness actually pose an existential threat to human life, he dressed the part on top of that. S-E hit their mark, and they succeeded.