Early internet discourse (bbs, list serves, etc) were influenced by academia and a reaction to 1980s and 1990s censorship and religious moral panic. The anonymity baked in from the start def comes from a place of wanting to let people be weird without being assured it would follow them back to real life. It came from a naive hope that freedom of expression was a self-policing ultimate good. At the time it was a left wing cornerstone.
Modern internet platforms are pretty much a straight line from there, with little deviation. The evils that have arisen are largely borne of scale and a reality catching up with free speech idealists.
I'd argue the situation we're in now is not "scale" and "reality" but rather "business" and "profit motive" grabbing onto the internet. The problem is not that people have free speech, the problem is that their speech is amplified in proportion to its drama and engagement, that the focuses of our attention are being manipulated by astroturfing and reinforcing feedback loops. We aren't just seeing the naked follies of human psychology, we are seeing them exploited ruthlessly for gain.
Reddit is not making money off it's shitty people. Quite the opposite in fact. It's a cultural phenomenon. A specific belief in certain kinds of free speech and the results of that philosophy being put to the test.
It's not even just the internet honestly. Society as a whole has only been very slowly catching on to the fact that being able to say anything you want in response is not a solution to being able to say anything you want.
Reddit is a for-profit company that has been extremely aggressively attempting to hit growth goals for most of its existence. The idea that this situation is a necessary end result of free speech is a smokescreen. The problem is not that the internet has free speech, the problem is that the amplification of that speech is benefiting specific groups and philosophies over others.
Reddit is a company that has been trying desperately to not have to jettison it's shittier elements for years and years now (with varying degrees of holding that line) despite those sections of it being a major problem for the company in securing ad revenue. We had a whole thread about this a few years back. Some of the worst parts of Reddit, past or present, are bad for business. But they stick or stuck around anyway, because that's the kind of platform they wanted for ideological reasons. Reddit is a very obvious example of the way that free speech ideology is a large driver of behaviour in this space.
In general the ways in which people/firms/etc do not make profit maximizing decisions but in fact make bad decisions based on specific ideologies or personal beliefs or the like is one of the key critiques of capitalism as a system and why it often fails to function well.
You realize that the reason this is a problem is because the people in control of reddit are specific types of people and are protecting a specific type of ideology, and that this is because their ownership of the platform empowers them to make decisions that protect these ideas regardless of what the broader will of their users or the people in general would be? It is the centralized control over what is and isn't allowed on reddit that biases the entire culture of the platform. Also, I think you would be naive to think that these less savory elements are somehow hurting them financially. Hatred drives engagement, advertisers leaving is not enough to dent that.
This is a massive moving of goalposts. You said:
I'd argue the situation we're in now is not "scale" and "reality" but rather "business" and "profit motive" grabbing onto the internet.
Reddit is a for-profit company that has been extremely aggressively attempting to hit growth goals for most of its existence.
You've been arguing the problem is that this kind of shit is profitable. But it's not. It is, in fact, in many ways unprofitable. But it continues. Because it's not about profit, it's about ideology.
There are definitely companies (coughFacebookcough) driving negative ... just everything for everyone in search of profit. But that is far from the sole source of the kind of behaviour being talked about and platforms not driven by engagement metrics predate those kind of platforms and have problems within that same area. Because a lot of what they reflecting is a culture on the internet built on specific ideologies and the expression of them in how communication platforms are designed and self-policed. Even fucking twitter is driven by these ideas if you pay attention to what it's leadership is up to.
I believe the leaders of all the social media companies were in fact a-social libertarian weirdos in the first place so yeah it seems like the corporate culture reflects their values more than profit-driving somehow placing them all in the same space.
You're assuming that there's no relationship between being in charge of a large company and being an a-social libertarian weirdo, when it is exactly that type of person who is benefited by capitalism.
According to what?
Given the research on economic mobility, the people who are benefited by capitalism are the people who's parents were already doing well.
And someone's parents has what influence on their beliefs?
uh, massive influence?
I can think of few bigger single factors that influences your views than whether or not your parents are rich or not
This is exactly my point.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Lol I thought supernatural finished 8 years ago.
PSN: Honkalot
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
I have altered this creme brulee recipe and am nervous about how it will turn out.
Supernatural is on like season 15 now? I'm not even sure if there's any mythology left to plumb for their villains.
I mean all the mythology is literally just *insert name of anything from mythology here* but can change it's appearance so it just looks like a person.
They can literally just scroll through names and call a random human actor whatever they want.
It's the most disappointing use of mythos I have ever seen.
I honestly don't understand how a show can be based entirely around creatures and mythology without actually having any creatures or monsters in it.
Running theme in the show when I was watching: humans are the worst monster.
I tried to watch supernatural with the leviathan stuff and then Angels, previously so powerful that one of them could annihilate all their enemies just by showing itself, were just guys you beat up
eh
the show should have ended when they defeated lucifer and stopped the apocalypse, that's kind of a peak
override367 on
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Richness of parents matters a lot less than their views on stuff, I'd imagine.
As a rich parented person who thinks the estate tax should approach 100%...
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Is heeeeeeeeeeeere
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Supernatural is on like season 15 now? I'm not even sure if there's any mythology left to plumb for their villains.
I mean all the mythology is literally just *insert name of anything from mythology here* but can change it's appearance so it just looks like a person.
They can literally just scroll through names and call a random human actor whatever they want.
It's the most disappointing use of mythos I have ever seen.
I honestly don't understand how a show can be based entirely around creatures and mythology without actually having any creatures or monsters in it.
Running theme in the show when I was watching: humans are the worst monster.
But they are not actually humans!
They just devote exact $0 to a budget for the show.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Highlights how barren the land around it is, which is definitely needed to see to drive home the "Barret aint lying about this killing the planet" shit
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
What in the fuck is any of this? It's like an alien language?
Superwholock?
I'm surprised you haven't heard of that. Superwholock was the amalgamated fandom of Supernatural, Sherlock, and Doctor Who, back when they were all at their height.
Nobody has heard of this
You know, I haven't heard of this. But I definitely know people who fall into this very specific fandom of dramatic genre nerd shows with handsome Caucasian male leads. Most of them are nerdy left-leaning women who live in conservative states, but that could just be the sample that I have.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
I'm putting together a custom macropad with cherry mx mechanical switches and relegendable keycaps.
I'm so far past help I can't even see the point I passed it anymore.
Pics or it didn't happen.
You'll be atted once it's complete now. I just put in the order and got an offer from someone to solder the components for $20 since I don't have proper ventilation in my apartment to do it.
Also, learning Autohotkey, which I'll leverage using QMK to run macro scripts.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Well shit.
I just noticed I had a very, very prominent listing of my home address in those pictures, and I published them to imgur.
Posts
This is exactly my point.
Running theme in the show when I was watching: humans are the worst monster.
All I ever neeeeeeded
eh
the show should have ended when they defeated lucifer and stopped the apocalypse, that's kind of a peak
As a rich parented person who thinks the estate tax should approach 100%...
I almost posted this, it's.. true.
I have, again, put the thermal underwear in the wash a little too late, so now I'm just hoping it finishes in time to be dry
last weekend I had to take it straight out of the washer and put it on while wet, which made for an unpleasant first couple of hours
But they are not actually humans!
They just devote exact $0 to a budget for the show.
Morning chat! I just got off work.
You know, I guess I had never realized at the time of playing how much of a dystopian hellscape FFVII was. Is that why I like cyberpunk so much?
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Honestly the real show finished after season 5, the shambling corpse lived on
pleasepaypreacher.net
Highlights how barren the land around it is, which is definitely needed to see to drive home the "Barret aint lying about this killing the planet" shit
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Our fluffy cat sometimes forgets she hates the kitten, and chases her around to play. Then the kitten reciprocates and she growls angrily.
If it's all brulee I'm on board.
It is when my wife has the torch. I still have not gotten all the singed matter off of the ramekins and it's been months since last I made this.
I'm so far past help I can't even see the point I passed it anymore.
gesundheit
Pics or it didn't happen.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Hoi, Chummer!
LET'S DO THIS!
BOOK TITLE. PAGE. I reserve the right to say no. Please @ me in your request so I don't have to read every post.
(Please be gentle I'm a fatass and just using a cell phone camera. Also ignore the mess.)
She is good people.
Drink it in.
And let the pink mohawks rule!
EDIT: Ooo, One Stage Before. I've never owned that in physical before.
The torch has no regulator! It spurts and I have to stand far away fanning the smoke detector and yet also grab it when it misbehaves!
Sounds like a party.
Blossom is getting a little better about not growling at every dog she meets
You'll be atted once it's complete now. I just put in the order and got an offer from someone to solder the components for $20 since I don't have proper ventilation in my apartment to do it.
Also, learning Autohotkey, which I'll leverage using QMK to run macro scripts.
I just noticed I had a very, very prominent listing of my home address in those pictures, and I published them to imgur.