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[US Foreign Policy] Peace For Sale

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    I'm just having mental images of American board members being parachuted straight into Ericsson HQ in Sweden from an Air Force C-130.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    I guess republicans are into socialism now?


    They fear another Apple situation- only this time, it's more aimed at U.S. citizens.

    If Huawei owns 5G, this administration is freaking out that it means the Chinese will be able to use 5G to hack everything we own because it'll be full of backdoors and holes for Chinese hackers, and besides, Donnie will throw a tantrum if he doesn't get to do much the same, too. With a stake in Nokia and Ericsson, they can request a sooper seekrit guvrnment backdoor be put in so they can look into anybody's phone they want to at any time, I imagine.

    In short, Huawei could have some small semblance of power, and anybody who's not 'murican in the States with any power absolutely scares the hell out of this administration.

    I mean, it's not like the concern isn't realistic.

    Yep. And this is why destroying your diplomatic corps and credibility is a bad idea. Because even with the legitimate concerns that can be raised, I don't really trust our government's motivations or arguments. And I'm just some guy without a departmental portfolio.

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    AnsagoAnsago Formerly QuarterMaster Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    I'm just having mental images of American board members being parachuted straight into Ericsson HQ in Sweden from an Air Force C-130.

    To be fair this is probably what Barr was imagining while giving his speech.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    I'm just having mental images of American board members being parachuted straight into Ericsson HQ in Sweden from an Air Force C-130.

    b58uvetemowq.jpg

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Ansago wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    I'm just having mental images of American board members being parachuted straight into Ericsson HQ in Sweden from an Air Force C-130.

    To be fair this is probably what Barr was imagining while giving his speech.

    Yeah, well, American board members will only take golden parachutes.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Ansago wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    I'm just having mental images of American board members being parachuted straight into Ericsson HQ in Sweden from an Air Force C-130.

    To be fair this is probably what Barr was imagining while giving his speech.

    Yeah, well, American board members will only take golden parachutes.

    A discussion board from ten years ago puts the terminal velocity of such a hemispherical parachute at 6.5m/s which they deemed survivable as long as you got out before the canopy landed on you.

    discrider on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    e: oops wrong thread

    Tox on
    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    CNN is reporting that more than 100 troops have brain injuries from the Iran strike. I'm sure Trump thinks they just need some asprin.

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    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Trump doesn't think about them at all

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    100 is just one digit away from 00, so it's practically the same.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Trump cares about troops if they vote loyally for him, and preferably commit war crimes.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Trump cares about troops if they vote loyally for him, and preferably commit war crimes.

    And let him get away with abusing his power. And aren't related to people who attempt to have him be held accountable for trying to abuse his powers.

    Obviously noone in the chain of command can comment on it at the moment, but has any notable retired flag officer (that aren't already tainted with "nevertrumper") publicly called out the firing of the Vindman's?

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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Trump cares about troops if they vote loyally for him, and preferably commit war crimes.
    No, no he does not.
    I mean he wants them to do those things, and more, but he does not give a fuck about them, only that they do what he wants.

    Nyysjan on
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    https://globalnation.inquirer.net/185007/breaking-duterte-officially-orders-termination-of-vfa
    President Rodrigo Duterte has instructed Executive Secretary Salvador Medialdea to ask the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) to send the United States the official notice to terminate the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA), Malacañang said Friday.

    “I instructed the Executive Secretary to tell him [Foreign Affairs Secretary Teodoro Locsin Jr.] to send the notice of termination to the US government,” presidential spokesman Salvador Panelo told the INQUIRER.net in a phone interview.

    “I said: Can I quote you on that? He said: Yes,” he added, speaking partly in Filipino.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Whatever he has planned is not going to be pretty.

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    JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Whatever he has planned is not going to be pretty.

    And whatever it is, it's going to put bad ideas into Donnie's widdle orange head.

    He'll be praising Duterte on Twitter for what he's going to do all day every day and bemoaning why he can't do that here.

    steam_sig.png
    I can has cheezburger, yes?
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    VFA, I think, has more to do with legal status of troops stationed there than the stationing itself, and this spat was apparently triggered by a Filipino senator's US Visa being revoked apparently due to his role in "alleged" extrajudicial killings.

    I'd look at this less as due to anything re: Trump, and more just a continued movement on Duterte's part shifting the Philippines from the US sphere into China's - it's also probably one of the less popular actions that Duterte does, as (despite being very popular in the country), my impression is they're still generally positively inclined towards the US and negatively inclined towards China (despite still accepting Chinese loans/bids for infrastructure construction).

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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Never have I been happier that I'm no longer in the military since Trump took office. I don't think I could serve under this chuckle fuck

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    PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Bay Area, CARegistered User regular
    So 8 Republicans found their spines, just a few days too late.

    Senate Passes Iran War Powers Act
    The vote was 55-45. Eight Republicans voted in favor of it: Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Todd Young of Indiana, Mike Lee of Utah, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, Rand Paul of Kentucky, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and Jerry Moran of Kansas.

    The President warned the Senate not to green-light the measure on Wednesday, tweeting that "it is very important for our country's security that the United States Senate not vote for the Iran War Powers Resolution," and adding, "If my hands were tied, Iran would have a field day."

    The White House has also issued a veto threat against it.

    Now to see if he follows through.

    "If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
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    Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Trump cares about troops if they vote loyally for him, and preferably commit war crimes.

    And let him get away with abusing his power. And aren't related to people who attempt to have him be held accountable for trying to abuse his powers.

    Obviously noone in the chain of command can comment on it at the moment, but has any notable retired flag officer (that aren't already tainted with "nevertrumper") publicly called out the firing of the Vindman's?

    John Kelly just did

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Handkor wrote: »
    A shockwave can be very bad for soft tissues. Depending of where they were the brain could have been subjected to all sorts of damage from the blasts. I also takes a bit of time for that damage to become apparent and can be pretty severe.

    Hence the origin of the term "shell shock."

    Back in the First World War they were originally trying to define psychological symptoms for what we'd now recognize as PTSD by rooting them in terms of physical injury, since back then psychology and medicine in general were ... not terribly great at interpreting mental trauma (and weren't sure that was even a thing, really). Despite not having the right connection to that specific set of symptoms, though, they weren't off base on the broader assumption that constantly getting jarred around by explosive overpressure had to be doing something bad to the brain.
    So 8 Republicans found their spines, just a few days too late.

    Senate Passes Iran War Powers Act
    The vote was 55-45. Eight Republicans voted in favor of it: Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Todd Young of Indiana, Mike Lee of Utah, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, Rand Paul of Kentucky, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and Jerry Moran of Kansas.

    The President warned the Senate not to green-light the measure on Wednesday, tweeting that "it is very important for our country's security that the United States Senate not vote for the Iran War Powers Resolution," and adding, "If my hands were tied, Iran would have a field day."

    The White House has also issued a veto threat against it.

    Now to see if he follows through.

    This bastard? He’s as likely to order air strikes on Iran in order to render the resolution moot as anything else.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2020
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Handkor wrote: »
    A shockwave can be very bad for soft tissues. Depending of where they were the brain could have been subjected to all sorts of damage from the blasts. I also takes a bit of time for that damage to become apparent and can be pretty severe.

    Hence the origin of the term "shell shock."

    Back in the First World War they were originally trying to define psychological symptoms for what we'd now recognize as PTSD by rooting them in terms of physical injury, since back then psychology and medicine in general were ... not terribly great at interpreting mental trauma (and weren't sure that was even a thing, really). Despite not having the right connection to that specific set of symptoms, though, they weren't off base on the broader assumption that constantly getting jarred around by explosive overpressure had to be doing something bad to the brain.
    So 8 Republicans found their spines, just a few days too late.

    Senate Passes Iran War Powers Act
    The vote was 55-45. Eight Republicans voted in favor of it: Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Todd Young of Indiana, Mike Lee of Utah, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, Rand Paul of Kentucky, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and Jerry Moran of Kansas.

    The President warned the Senate not to green-light the measure on Wednesday, tweeting that "it is very important for our country's security that the United States Senate not vote for the Iran War Powers Resolution," and adding, "If my hands were tied, Iran would have a field day."

    The White House has also issued a veto threat against it.

    Now to see if he follows through.

    This bastard? He’s as likely to order air strikes on Iran in order to render the resolution moot as anything else.

    Also, like

    Congress has made their decision, now let them enforce it.

    (edit: to be clear, it'll surely be vetoed, but even if not, it would probably not matter)

    Shivahn on
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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Between this and the wall funding activity from the immigration thread, not passing a budget is looking somewhat attractive. Lord knows that zeroing out the feds would be bad, but Trump is about one misfiring neuron from treating the entire budget as a giant slush fund, so... yeah...

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Between this and the wall funding activity from the immigration thread, not passing a budget is looking somewhat attractive. Lord knows that zeroing out the feds would be bad, but Trump is about one misfiring neuron from treating the entire budget as a giant slush fund, so... yeah...

    Government shutdowns are bad.

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Between this and the wall funding activity from the immigration thread, not passing a budget is looking somewhat attractive. Lord knows that zeroing out the feds would be bad, but Trump is about one misfiring neuron from treating the entire budget as a giant slush fund, so... yeah...

    Government shutdowns are bad.

    Indeed. However the continued functioning of the current US government comes with costs too. If we could rely on the executive to execute the laws the legislative branch passed it would be one thing. But we’re at the point I fear where Trump is just going to ignore the budget and reappropriate funds where he wants.

    Frankly, I have no answer to this situation.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Bay Area, CARegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Handkor wrote: »
    A shockwave can be very bad for soft tissues. Depending of where they were the brain could have been subjected to all sorts of damage from the blasts. I also takes a bit of time for that damage to become apparent and can be pretty severe.

    Hence the origin of the term "shell shock."

    Back in the First World War they were originally trying to define psychological symptoms for what we'd now recognize as PTSD by rooting them in terms of physical injury, since back then psychology and medicine in general were ... not terribly great at interpreting mental trauma (and weren't sure that was even a thing, really). Despite not having the right connection to that specific set of symptoms, though, they weren't off base on the broader assumption that constantly getting jarred around by explosive overpressure had to be doing something bad to the brain.
    So 8 Republicans found their spines, just a few days too late.

    Senate Passes Iran War Powers Act
    The vote was 55-45. Eight Republicans voted in favor of it: Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Todd Young of Indiana, Mike Lee of Utah, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, Rand Paul of Kentucky, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and Jerry Moran of Kansas.

    The President warned the Senate not to green-light the measure on Wednesday, tweeting that "it is very important for our country's security that the United States Senate not vote for the Iran War Powers Resolution," and adding, "If my hands were tied, Iran would have a field day."

    The White House has also issued a veto threat against it.

    Now to see if he follows through.

    This bastard? He’s as likely to order air strikes on Iran in order to render the resolution moot as anything else.

    Also, like

    Congress has made their decision, now let them enforce it.

    (edit: to be clear, it'll surely be vetoed, but even if not, it would probably not matter)

    Yeah, looking at that list for more than two seconds, it's clear this is something that Alexander, Murkowski, and Collins can all point to say "See? We did our very best to reign in these terrible actions, but unfortunately there is nothing more we ever could of done. What a pity."

    "If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular

    "Breaking: Federal court orders Pentagon to halt the JEDI cloud contract it awarded to Microsoft, granting Amazon's request for injunction"
    - Wall Street Journal is a newspaper of some renown.

    Ned Price, former Obama staffer and NSC Spokesperson sums it up best.

    "This is big. A federal judge appears to believe there may be merit to Amazon's contention that Trump prioritized his personal vendetta against Bezos and The Washington Post over national security by seeing to it that Amazon lost an important DoD contract."

    I wonder where the judge could have gotten the idea that Trump might prioritize a personal vendetta and use undue influence to impact governmental operations for his own petty whims?

    Discovery for this, given how laborious the military is at record keeping, has the potential to be huge.

    I fully expect Trump to refuse to hand over, or allow to be handed over, anything on the grounds of national security. But if the judge is already granting an injunction, that could make things "interesting" (in the Chinese proverb definition).

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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    It's worth pointing out that even if there's nothing to it, President Trump's petty vindictiveness has materially damaged national security. As this whole thing is litigated, directly because of his inability to not do crimes, the contract will go unfulfilled.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Cross posting from the Hiberno Brittanic politics thread as it’s relevant here too. The sources for this seem to be coming from The Sun, so I wouldn’t take it as gospel yet, but Business Insider are reporting that Johnson has canceled his planned trip to D.C. after Trump became “apoplectic” during a phone call with him and slammed the phone down on him.

    Boris Johnson has cancelled his planned trip to the White House after Trump slammed the phone down on him in a moment of 'apoplectic' fury

    Apparently this happened after a series of disputes over Iran, Huawei and the extradition request for the woman who ran over Harry Dunn.

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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumbass on the outs, be still my beating heart. Who could've forseen this?

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    We might be deciding to declare victory and come home.
    AP wrote:
    A senior U.S. official said Friday the United States and the Taliban have reached a truce agreement that will take effect “very soon” and could lead to withdrawals of American troops from Afghanistan.

    The official said the agreement for a seven-day “reduction in violence” to be followed by the start of all-Afghan peace talks within 10 days is “very specific” and covers the entire country, including Afghan government forces. There were indications a formal announcement could come as early as the weekend.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-afghanistan-truce-ceasefire-20200214-s3kctser5nfenjsiftgq5nxg6e-story.html

    Or it's an announcement of an announcement of an attempt at announcing declaring victory and coming home. Considering we were planning to have the Taliban at Camp David on 9/11 it might be more real than not.

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    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    So this means Boris is asking why we haven't invaded Iran yet?

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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    Trump needs a foreign policy victory badly and "ending the war in Afghanistan" would be a feather in his cap leading to election season. It's not a BAD thing to not be at war in Afghanistan anymore, but I sure don't trust Trump's administration to accomplish it in any sort of logical or meaningfully effective way.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Trump needs a foreign policy victory badly and "ending the war in Afghanistan" would be a feather in his cap leading to election season. It's not a BAD thing to not be at war in Afghanistan anymore, but I sure don't trust Trump's administration to accomplish it in any sort of logical or meaningfully effective way.

    Yeah based on how he likes to declare victory and then not actually do anything this would be a pr move until reelection and then we'd like triple down in afganistan.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Trump needs a foreign policy victory badly and "ending the war in Afghanistan" would be a feather in his cap leading to election season. It's not a BAD thing to not be at war in Afghanistan anymore, but I sure don't trust Trump's administration to accomplish it in any sort of logical or meaningfully effective way.

    Yeah based on how he likes to declare victory and then not actually do anything this would be a pr move until reelection and then we'd like triple down in afganistan.

    Eh, I wouldn't be surprised to actually have a troop withdrawal if there is an actual agreement. I also wouldn't be surprised if that withdrawal leaves an ocean of bloody reprisals, rather than taking care of the people who helped us. Like we did to the Kurds. I want us out of Afghanistan, but I want the next President to be the one to do it.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Trump needs a foreign policy victory badly and "ending the war in Afghanistan" would be a feather in his cap leading to election season. It's not a BAD thing to not be at war in Afghanistan anymore, but I sure don't trust Trump's administration to accomplish it in any sort of logical or meaningfully effective way.

    Yeah based on how he likes to declare victory and then not actually do anything this would be a pr move until reelection and then we'd like triple down in afganistan.

    Eh, I wouldn't be surprised to actually have a troop withdrawal if there is an actual agreement. I also wouldn't be surprised if that withdrawal leaves an ocean of bloody reprisals, rather than taking care of the people who helped us. Like we did to the Kurds. I want us out of Afghanistan, but I want the next President to be the one to do it.

    I'd like the next President to do it well, but I don't know if that's even possible, so why not dump that ocean of blood on this asshole?

    Maybe. Idk.

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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Trump needs a foreign policy victory badly and "ending the war in Afghanistan" would be a feather in his cap leading to election season. It's not a BAD thing to not be at war in Afghanistan anymore, but I sure don't trust Trump's administration to accomplish it in any sort of logical or meaningfully effective way.

    Yeah based on how he likes to declare victory and then not actually do anything this would be a pr move until reelection and then we'd like triple down in afganistan.

    Eh, I wouldn't be surprised to actually have a troop withdrawal if there is an actual agreement. I also wouldn't be surprised if that withdrawal leaves an ocean of bloody reprisals, rather than taking care of the people who helped us. Like we did to the Kurds. I want us out of Afghanistan, but I want the next President to be the one to do it.

    I'd like the next President to do it well, but I don't know if that's even possible, so why not dump that ocean of blood on this asshole?

    Maybe. Idk.

    It’s a quagmire. Always has been. We should do the least harm possible. I do not trust the Trump administration to navigate that path.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Trump needs a foreign policy victory badly and "ending the war in Afghanistan" would be a feather in his cap leading to election season. It's not a BAD thing to not be at war in Afghanistan anymore, but I sure don't trust Trump's administration to accomplish it in any sort of logical or meaningfully effective way.

    Yeah based on how he likes to declare victory and then not actually do anything this would be a pr move until reelection and then we'd like triple down in afganistan.

    Eh, I wouldn't be surprised to actually have a troop withdrawal if there is an actual agreement. I also wouldn't be surprised if that withdrawal leaves an ocean of bloody reprisals, rather than taking care of the people who helped us. Like we did to the Kurds. I want us out of Afghanistan, but I want the next President to be the one to do it.

    I'd like the next President to do it well, but I don't know if that's even possible, so why not dump that ocean of blood on this asshole?

    Maybe. Idk.

    No other President would do it as poorly as Trump would, and I care more about people's lives than who gets blamed for it.

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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    We might be deciding to declare victory and come home.
    AP wrote:
    A senior U.S. official said Friday the United States and the Taliban have reached a truce agreement that will take effect “very soon” and could lead to withdrawals of American troops from Afghanistan.

    The official said the agreement for a seven-day “reduction in violence” to be followed by the start of all-Afghan peace talks within 10 days is “very specific” and covers the entire country, including Afghan government forces. There were indications a formal announcement could come as early as the weekend.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-afghanistan-truce-ceasefire-20200214-s3kctser5nfenjsiftgq5nxg6e-story.html

    Or it's an announcement of an announcement of an attempt at announcing declaring victory and coming home. Considering we were planning to have the Taliban at Camp David on 9/11 it might be more real than not.

    Holy. Shit. The taliban won

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    I don't think there is a clean way to withdraw from Afghanistan regardless of who's in office. The US should accept Afghan refugees fleeing the ongoing war. Other than that, if withdrawal is desired, what exactly do people think a better administration would do differently than the current one?

This discussion has been closed.