CBP (for what their word is worth) says it was a fence portion in New Mexico that blew down in June.
If CBP is claiming this was a new incident of ordinary wind knocking over a shoddy wall section, then the only real avenue for deception is trying to get out of paying their hurricane deductible; and I respect that.
If the dumb wall falls over on the Mexico side they should take it for scrap metal and send the Trump admin a disposal bill.
I think that was one of the extra stupider things about the wall. They were going to build it well back from the border, so the USA was effectively losing usable territory as part of the whole thing.
Nah, that's just responsible future-proofing. If you're still planning on putting the moat in later, you need to save room for it now.
God I forgot about the entire moat+alligators thing
You're thinking of the Toy "Castle Greyskull" of He-man fame, that one came with a slime moat and alligators.
This is a 3000 miles long borderwall, a moat would just be silly, and no-one would dig one.
In fact, it's probably cheaper to just conquer your way down to the Panama Canal then it is to build a river spanning an entire continent.
But it's the sort of thing a child would think was cool, so of course it was part of Trump's plan.
If the dumb wall falls over on the Mexico side they should take it for scrap metal and send the Trump admin a disposal bill.
I think that was one of the extra stupider things about the wall. They were going to build it well back from the border, so the USA was effectively losing usable territory as part of the whole thing.
Nah, that's just responsible future-proofing. If you're still planning on putting the moat in later, you need to save room for it now.
God I forgot about the entire moat+alligators thing
You're thinking of the Toy "Castle Greyskull" of He-man fame, that one came with a slime moat and alligators.
This is a 3000 miles long borderwall, a moat would just be silly, and no-one would dig one.
In fact, it's probably cheaper to just conquer your way down to the Panama Canal then it is to build a river spanning an entire continent.
But it's the sort of thing a child would think was cool, so of course it was part of Trump's plan.
I wonder how much time they spent discussing quick sand.
From Raices, a texas-based immigrant advocacy and support group
BREAKING: DHSgov has said it'll reject initial, 1st time #DACA applications & will limit renewals for current recipients to 1 year extensions instead of the 2 year protections in place since '12.
Amazingly the Trump admin thinks it can reject a #SCOTUS ruling.
It appears, at least from what I gather here, that they are just gonna go ahead with their agenda regardless.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Uh. Now's a good time to find out if the SCOTUS has any mechanism to twist the Executive's arm into complying with shit.
Otherwise, I again assert that our country made a big mistake constructing things to function on good faith.
MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Andrew Jackson is Trump's favorite president, and Trump always does appear to have an encyclopedic knowledge of all things racist and dogwhistling, so he probably knows all about ignoring Supreme Court orders in order to get his genocide on.
Barr was asked about that this afternoon and was like "DHS put forth a new order today, it's great!" and we moved on to one of his 39204 other atrocities that Dems finally got a chance to ask him about.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Andrew Jackson is Trump's favorite president, and Trump always does appear to have an encyclopedic knowledge of all things racist and dogwhistling, so he probably knows all about ignoring Supreme Court orders in order to get his genocide on.
Experience has taught him that you can ignore all legal rulings if you have enough money/power.
Uh. Now's a good time to find out if the SCOTUS has any mechanism to twist the Executive's arm into complying with shit.
Otherwise, I again assert that our country made a big mistake constructing things to function on good faith.
Well, I mean, there kind of is. Congress absolutely should impeach on the basis of "you're ignoring the Supreme Court and breaking the law." The problem is the GOP. They'll never impeach because there's a GOP majority who'll always back Trump.
At the end of the day, every political system is just a collection of people doing things, and the law and democracy and all that only work when a sufficient majority of people put faith in it and take action based on upholding it. And at the moment, in the US, the law is widely seen as corrupt on the left, and a weapon to suppress people with on the right.
I wonder how the Supreme Court will respond to this, and if they can without looking toothless.
Uh. Now's a good time to find out if the SCOTUS has any mechanism to twist the Executive's arm into complying with shit.
Otherwise, I again assert that our country made a big mistake constructing things to function on good faith.
Well, I mean, there kind of is. Congress absolutely should impeach on the basis of "you're ignoring the Supreme Court and breaking the law." The problem is the GOP. They'll never impeach because there's a GOP majority who'll always back Trump.
At the end of the day, every political system is just a collection of people doing things, and the law and democracy and all that only work when a sufficient majority of people put faith in it and take action based on upholding it. And at the moment, in the US, the law is widely seen as corrupt on the left, and a weapon to suppress people with on the right.
I wonder how the Supreme Court will respond to this, and if they can without looking toothless.
They wait until someone challenges it, then enforce a TRO.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
At the very least I hope the GOP SCOTUS members realize they are not immune to being thrown under the bus, and as retaliation they try to do their job less partisan-ly. Which is a huge milestone and all but frankly I love to imagine the gloves coming off between authoritative chuds and having a go at each other.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Mark your calendars. Today is the day ICE finally uses the "just following orders" excuse Nazis used.
ICE agents complain about Nazi comparisons, say they're only enforcing the laws
Nathanfillion.gif
But really, I'm not the least bit surprised they went this route because it is the best defense...the Nazis and their defense attorneys wouldn't have used it otherwise...but just come on.
If the dumb wall falls over on the Mexico side they should take it for scrap metal and send the Trump admin a disposal bill.
I think that was one of the extra stupider things about the wall. They were going to build it well back from the border, so the USA was effectively losing usable territory as part of the whole thing.
Nah, that's just responsible future-proofing. If you're still planning on putting the moat in later, you need to save room for it now.
God I forgot about the entire moat+alligators thing
You're thinking of the Toy "Castle Greyskull" of He-man fame, that one came with a slime moat and alligators.
This is a 3000 miles long borderwall, a moat would just be silly, and no-one would dig one.
In fact, it's probably cheaper to just conquer your way down to the Panama Canal then it is to build a river spanning an entire continent.
I had that toy as a kid, was destroyed by a neighbor. Looked it up recently , worth over 40k.
I know this is off-topic but how often does toy Castle Greyskull come up on these forums!
If the dumb wall falls over on the Mexico side they should take it for scrap metal and send the Trump admin a disposal bill.
I think that was one of the extra stupider things about the wall. They were going to build it well back from the border, so the USA was effectively losing usable territory as part of the whole thing.
Nah, that's just responsible future-proofing. If you're still planning on putting the moat in later, you need to save room for it now.
God I forgot about the entire moat+alligators thing
You're thinking of the Toy "Castle Greyskull" of He-man fame, that one came with a slime moat and alligators.
This is a 3000 miles long borderwall, a moat would just be silly, and no-one would dig one.
In fact, it's probably cheaper to just conquer your way down to the Panama Canal then it is to build a river spanning an entire continent.
I had that toy as a kid, was destroyed by a neighbor. Looked it up recently , worth over 40k.
I know this is off-topic but how often does toy Castle Greyskull come up on these forums!
IN THE GRIM FUTURE THERE IS ONLY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL
If the dumb wall falls over on the Mexico side they should take it for scrap metal and send the Trump admin a disposal bill.
I think that was one of the extra stupider things about the wall. They were going to build it well back from the border, so the USA was effectively losing usable territory as part of the whole thing.
Nah, that's just responsible future-proofing. If you're still planning on putting the moat in later, you need to save room for it now.
God I forgot about the entire moat+alligators thing
You're thinking of the Toy "Castle Greyskull" of He-man fame, that one came with a slime moat and alligators.
This is a 3000 miles long borderwall, a moat would just be silly, and no-one would dig one.
In fact, it's probably cheaper to just conquer your way down to the Panama Canal then it is to build a river spanning an entire continent.
I had that toy as a kid, was destroyed by a neighbor. Looked it up recently , worth over 40k.
I know this is off-topic but how often does toy Castle Greyskull come up on these forums!
IN THE GRIM FUTURE THERE IS ONLY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL
So... I should eschew canned goods, ammunition or gold in the coming apocalypse, in favor of 'Masters of the Universe' toys? Got it.
Yes, I'm aware it's a joke based on Games Workshop's 40K.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
A judge has put a restraining order on the Administration's public charge rule change for green card holders.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
CBP (for what their word is worth) says it was a fence portion in New Mexico that blew down in June.
If CBP is claiming this was a new incident of ordinary wind knocking over a shoddy wall section, then the only real avenue for deception is trying to get out of paying their hurricane deductible; and I respect that.
CBP (for what their word is worth) says it was a fence portion in New Mexico that blew down in June.
If CBP is claiming this was a new incident of ordinary wind knocking over a shoddy wall section, then the only real avenue for deception is trying to get out of paying their hurricane deductible; and I respect that.
The government cannot be insured. It’s a rule.
Huh!
I can see how it may be less of an administrative headache (and ethical minefield) to just have a billion dollar rainy day jar if you can afford it.
I wouldn't have thought the wall had a literal insurance policy (joking more about angling to hold the contractor responsible if it fell over in 'normal' conditions), but I absolutely assumed public federal buildings like courthouses had property insurance for liability purposes.
CBP (for what their word is worth) says it was a fence portion in New Mexico that blew down in June.
If CBP is claiming this was a new incident of ordinary wind knocking over a shoddy wall section, then the only real avenue for deception is trying to get out of paying their hurricane deductible; and I respect that.
The government cannot be insured. It’s a rule.
Huh!
I can see how it may be less of an administrative headache (and ethical minefield) to just have a billion dollar rainy day jar if you can afford it.
I wouldn't have thought the wall had a literal insurance policy (joking more about angling to hold the contractor responsible if it fell over in 'normal' conditions), but I absolutely assumed public federal buildings like courthouses had property insurance for liability purposes.
The Federal Government is easily large enough to effectively self-insure (or really, since they're their only client, not insure at all).
CBP (for what their word is worth) says it was a fence portion in New Mexico that blew down in June.
If CBP is claiming this was a new incident of ordinary wind knocking over a shoddy wall section, then the only real avenue for deception is trying to get out of paying their hurricane deductible; and I respect that.
The government cannot be insured. It’s a rule.
Huh!
I can see how it may be less of an administrative headache (and ethical minefield) to just have a billion dollar rainy day jar if you can afford it.
I wouldn't have thought the wall had a literal insurance policy (joking more about angling to hold the contractor responsible if it fell over in 'normal' conditions), but I absolutely assumed public federal buildings like courthouses had property insurance for liability purposes.
When you have a trillion dollar budget it's cheaper to just pay things.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
CBP (for what their word is worth) says it was a fence portion in New Mexico that blew down in June.
If CBP is claiming this was a new incident of ordinary wind knocking over a shoddy wall section, then the only real avenue for deception is trying to get out of paying their hurricane deductible; and I respect that.
The government cannot be insured. It’s a rule.
Huh!
I can see how it may be less of an administrative headache (and ethical minefield) to just have a billion dollar rainy day jar if you can afford it.
I wouldn't have thought the wall had a literal insurance policy (joking more about angling to hold the contractor responsible if it fell over in 'normal' conditions), but I absolutely assumed public federal buildings like courthouses had property insurance for liability purposes.
The Federal Government is easily large enough to effectively self-insure (or really, since they're their only client, not insure at all).
The doctrine comes from the mentality that no insurance company is large enough to adequately cover the United States. Yeah a hurricane hit Florida we need to put in a claim for $17 billion dollars. Please have a check to us by the end of the month.
So you have to put in a claim with the agency (and they all have different procedures), and for small things like car accidents, it can be a nightmare, because agencies will often try to have a person get 3 quotes to have their car repaired so they can choose the cheapest, but don’t want to pay for the tow truck to move vehicle from one place to another.
And as you get into the FAR they use other terms to avoid saying insurance. Like really loose warranty definitions and crazy bonding requirements.
The Trump administration’s no-blanks policy is the latest Kafkaesque plan designed to curb immigration
Last fall, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services introduced perhaps its most arbitrary, absurd modification yet to the immigration system: It began rejecting applications unless every single field was filled in, even those that obviously did not pertain to the applicant.
“Middle name” field left blank because the applicant does not have a middle name? Sorry, your application gets rejected. No apartment number because you live in a house? You’re rejected, too.
No address given for your parents because they’re dead? No siblings named because you’re an only child? No work history dates because you’re an 8-year-old kid?
All real cases, all rejected.
After an initial flood of confusing rejection letters, immigration attorneys wised up. Lawyers spent additional hours combing through every field, meticulously typing “N/A” or “none” in all blanks even when doing so seemed superfluous.
In certain fields, it’s not possible to digitally type in the magic words “none” or “N/A,” because USCIS coded the PDF to allow entries of numbers only. So, attorneys began handwriting “N/A” across forms. Some scrounged up typewriters. Others special-ordered “N/A” rubber stamps.
All this busywork took up a tremendous amount of time. But at least applicants had a way to jump through this hoop.
So USCIS adapted — by requiring unsuspecting third parties to clear the same hurdle.
In late June, new fine print appeared on USCIS’s website. It said the no-blanks policy would extend to at least one document that must be filled out by law enforcement officials — someone over whom immigrants and their lawyers had no control. These officials must complete and sign a form certifying that immigrants applying for the crime-victim (U) visa are assisting with an investigation or prosecution.
Immigration attorneys say that even when they have good relationships with law enforcement, completing these certifications can require months of nudging, cajoling and begging.
“Sometimes the police department is like five people,” said Josh Doherty, a lawyer at the nonprofit Ayuda. “Understandably, if you are an agency of five people, and you’re responsible for public safety and traffic enforcement, and all these other different things, you might miss an email or letter.”
Now, attorneys must persuade these law enforcement agencies to please, please, please, redo all the forms they already signed, and fill out “N/A” everywhere possible, no matter how gratuitous it seems.
Separately, in recent months, at least two other attorneys have received denials from USCIS for blanks on other forms filled out by third parties — in both cases, a medical examination report required for green card applications. That document is signed by a USCIS-certified physician and submitted to the agency in a sealed envelope. Immigrants are not allowed to even view the completed form to make sure the doctor left nothing blank.
Unlike with the law enforcement certifications, USCIS has not publicly confirmed whether it is systemically applying its no-blanks policy to medical forms, or if those denials were perhaps the action of a rogue official. Alerts on USCIS’s website flag the no-blanks policy only for asylum, crime-victim and trafficking-victim visas, despite rejections lawyers have received for blanks on other types of applications. The agency did not respond to questions about how or when it was deciding to enforce the policy.
Literally hurting people for mistakes they didn't even make.
Couscous on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
The worst part about that is there's no legal recourse for the people filing and getting rejected on such petty shit like that. Oh my god I did NOT need something to infuriate me like that so early in the morning.
It's not even a mistake made. It's deliberately creating a new rule that no one could have possibly foreseen, and applying it retroactively, in order to hurt people.
Might as well dust off some of the literacy tests they used to disenfranchise Black voters.
Every time I see this I want the next administration to burn through the civil service with fire and sword. Find every asshole who came up with stuff like that and just end their public service career, preferably in a way that strips them of benefits.
It is dangerous as fuck but the bureaucracy has to be more afraid of enabling the fascists than defying them.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Oh I am fully on board with seeking out everyone who was into this idea and executing on it, to be fired and never allowed into government work again. Or human resources kind of work either, since they have an agenda of manipulating it from within.
It's so obviously a case of "oh, people figured out how to jump through our hoops? Better fix that."
How to weaponize bureaucracy, a master class.
Or rather, how to weaponize sloppy bureaucracy by shirking the blame onto your customers.
So much of this horseshit (flawed forms, no paperwork to track separated kids, that ICE database that only allowed them to select the bad option) are just process design fuckups that they should be responsible for.
I don't believe they're actually clever enough to make their traps look like genuine oversights, because that would require that they knew how to make that form properly and made a choice not to.
(I am fully prepared to believe they did, I just want to damn them with the faint praise of suggesting they're too stupid to be functionally malicious as a means of venting)
ArbitraryDescriptor on
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
The worst part about that is there's no legal recourse for the people filing and getting rejected on such petty shit like that. Oh my god I did NOT need something to infuriate me like that so early in the morning.
Weaponized Bureaucracy. My job is to literally fill out forms for the government, and the no blank answers thing is not uncommon. this is another thing that favors people with money because you can pay the officers to do the work off duty, and have a paralegal sit with them to fill it out.
If it's like my work. I fill out everything for an acquisition package (which is 10 forms for a "simple acquisition") that is under 250k. And there are lots of nuanced N/A's that have to go in, or it literally stops everything for 2 weeks while they "investigate the blank answers."
Some dickhead said, hey this is infuriating to us who deal with it every day. Let's use it against people who don't have the years of experience in this field.
I feel very sorry for the analyst who has to go back and fix all of those "None" "N/A"'s etc in the data in the future. Or at person who is going to forever be known as "Joe None Immigrant".
I'll also bet money that if Mr. no-middle-name doesn't later say his name is "Joe None Immigrant" he'll be denied / kicked out (or arrested and held in a concentration camp).
Every time I see this I want the next administration to burn through the civil service with fire and sword. Find every asshole who came up with stuff like that and just end their public service career, preferably in a way that strips them of benefits.
It is dangerous as fuck but the bureaucracy has to be more afraid of enabling the fascists than defying them.
This probably has nothing to do with those people. The career workers almost certainly have nothing to do with making these decisions. They just implement policy, which in cases like this almost guaranteed comes down from the political appointees at the top. Basically, the people who come up with stuff like this are probably not part of the civil service.
shryke on
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Every time I see this I want the next administration to burn through the civil service with fire and sword. Find every asshole who came up with stuff like that and just end their public service career, preferably in a way that strips them of benefits.
It is dangerous as fuck but the bureaucracy has to be more afraid of enabling the fascists than defying them.
benefits can't be stripped except in cases of disclosure of classified information, espionage, or perjury in a way that hurts national security. It would take a law from congress to change that, and that law would likely not be legally binding (ex post facto) if they tried to do it retroactively.
They can end agencies and remove employees, but that qualifies as a RIF and they get re-appointment priority, so if you hatchet DHS, the ones that can retire will, and most of the rest will filter to other agencies, with the remaining becoming retirees or contractors.
zepherin on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Every time I see this I want the next administration to burn through the civil service with fire and sword. Find every asshole who came up with stuff like that and fire them into the sun
It is dangerous as fuck but it's the only way to be sure
I find it easier and easier to understand the mistakes of revolutions past because throwing the monsters out of power doesn't seem near enough when you know they're still your neighbors. And you know what they did
The only article I've seen on this so far is a Forbes one, which is paywalled, but apparently the admin have just started banning O visas.
I guess the theory is that working their way through the list piecemeal will keep them just under the outrage radar or something.
Posts
If CBP is claiming this was a new incident of ordinary wind knocking over a shoddy wall section, then the only real avenue for deception is trying to get out of paying their hurricane deductible; and I respect that.
But it's the sort of thing a child would think was cool, so of course it was part of Trump's plan.
I wonder how much time they spent discussing quick sand.
Trump Admin doing basically what you'd expect:
From Raices, a texas-based immigrant advocacy and support group
It appears, at least from what I gather here, that they are just gonna go ahead with their agenda regardless.
Otherwise, I again assert that our country made a big mistake constructing things to function on good faith.
Experience has taught him that you can ignore all legal rulings if you have enough money/power.
Well, I mean, there kind of is. Congress absolutely should impeach on the basis of "you're ignoring the Supreme Court and breaking the law." The problem is the GOP. They'll never impeach because there's a GOP majority who'll always back Trump.
At the end of the day, every political system is just a collection of people doing things, and the law and democracy and all that only work when a sufficient majority of people put faith in it and take action based on upholding it. And at the moment, in the US, the law is widely seen as corrupt on the left, and a weapon to suppress people with on the right.
I wonder how the Supreme Court will respond to this, and if they can without looking toothless.
They wait until someone challenges it, then enforce a TRO.
Nathanfillion.gif
But really, I'm not the least bit surprised they went this route because it is the best defense...the Nazis and their defense attorneys wouldn't have used it otherwise...but just come on.
I had that toy as a kid, was destroyed by a neighbor. Looked it up recently , worth over 40k.
I know this is off-topic but how often does toy Castle Greyskull come up on these forums!
IN THE GRIM FUTURE THERE IS ONLY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL
So... I should eschew canned goods, ammunition or gold in the coming apocalypse, in favor of 'Masters of the Universe' toys? Got it.
She may not be my congressional representative but she's a damn fine leader.
Huh!
I can see how it may be less of an administrative headache (and ethical minefield) to just have a billion dollar rainy day jar if you can afford it.
I wouldn't have thought the wall had a literal insurance policy (joking more about angling to hold the contractor responsible if it fell over in 'normal' conditions), but I absolutely assumed public federal buildings like courthouses had property insurance for liability purposes.
The Federal Government is easily large enough to effectively self-insure (or really, since they're their only client, not insure at all).
When you have a trillion dollar budget it's cheaper to just pay things.
So you have to put in a claim with the agency (and they all have different procedures), and for small things like car accidents, it can be a nightmare, because agencies will often try to have a person get 3 quotes to have their car repaired so they can choose the cheapest, but don’t want to pay for the tow truck to move vehicle from one place to another.
And as you get into the FAR they use other terms to avoid saying insurance. Like really loose warranty definitions and crazy bonding requirements.
Might as well dust off some of the literacy tests they used to disenfranchise Black voters.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
How to weaponize bureaucracy, a master class.
It is dangerous as fuck but the bureaucracy has to be more afraid of enabling the fascists than defying them.
Or rather, how to weaponize sloppy bureaucracy by shirking the blame onto your customers.
So much of this horseshit (flawed forms, no paperwork to track separated kids, that ICE database that only allowed them to select the bad option) are just process design fuckups that they should be responsible for.
I don't believe they're actually clever enough to make their traps look like genuine oversights, because that would require that they knew how to make that form properly and made a choice not to.
(I am fully prepared to believe they did, I just want to damn them with the faint praise of suggesting they're too stupid to be functionally malicious as a means of venting)
If it's like my work. I fill out everything for an acquisition package (which is 10 forms for a "simple acquisition") that is under 250k. And there are lots of nuanced N/A's that have to go in, or it literally stops everything for 2 weeks while they "investigate the blank answers."
Some dickhead said, hey this is infuriating to us who deal with it every day. Let's use it against people who don't have the years of experience in this field.
I'll also bet money that if Mr. no-middle-name doesn't later say his name is "Joe None Immigrant" he'll be denied / kicked out (or arrested and held in a concentration camp).
This probably has nothing to do with those people. The career workers almost certainly have nothing to do with making these decisions. They just implement policy, which in cases like this almost guaranteed comes down from the political appointees at the top. Basically, the people who come up with stuff like this are probably not part of the civil service.
They can end agencies and remove employees, but that qualifies as a RIF and they get re-appointment priority, so if you hatchet DHS, the ones that can retire will, and most of the rest will filter to other agencies, with the remaining becoming retirees or contractors.
I find it easier and easier to understand the mistakes of revolutions past because throwing the monsters out of power doesn't seem near enough when you know they're still your neighbors. And you know what they did
I guess the theory is that working their way through the list piecemeal will keep them just under the outrage radar or something.