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The Middle East - bOUTeflika

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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Obama should have ripped off the Band-aid in 2015.

    Clinton could have said whatever the fuck she wanted about it but it would have been done. Nothing's changed since then except we got to have Donald Trump overseer a bombing campaign for four years.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    This is one of the craziest things I've seen happen on a live broadcast. Some background: before the Sudanese revolution that ousted al Bashir, Russia and Sudan came to an agreement allowing Russia to build a naval base on the Sudanese shore of the Red Sea. The Sudanese military, which is not exactly out of power, is continuing with their plans for the base. Sudanese journalist Ahmed Ali Abdelgadir went on Channel 9 (Arabic language Turkish channel) to talk about the situation, the Sudanese military's attempts to balance cozying up to Russia while improving their relationship with the US, and Russia's plans in the Sudan. And got arrested live on TV, 5 minutes into his interview. The Turkish anchor reports on the arrest as it happens.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-Ei6zlFsBk

    I assume you mean Syria?

    No, Sudan. It's going to be the first Russian Federation naval base in Africa.

    Boy, is my face red. Should have watched the video and read more carefully. (Half-asleep before bed is my only excuse.)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    From AP’s Iran news director.


    APNewsAlert: DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (@AP) _ #Iran's state-run IRNA news agency, citing negotiator, says Tehran will start enriching uranium to 60% purity

    Following the attack on Natanz, Iran will start enriching uranium up to 60%, similarly to how they started going to 20% after the assassination of Fakhrizadeh. I’d say the rhetoric has been even more harsh than before.

    Hopefully that lights a fire under the JCPOA restart talks. Weapons grade is 90%, which doesn't leave much space if things drag on and Iran decides to raise the stakes again.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/biden-us-troop-withdrawal-afghanistan/2021/04/13/918c3cae-9beb-11eb-8a83-3bc1fa69c2e8_story.html
    “This is the immediate, practical reality that our policy review discovered,” said one person familiar with the closed-door deliberations who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss policy planning. “If we break the May 1st deadline negotiated by the previous administration with no clear plan to exit, we will be back at war with the Taliban, and that was not something President Biden believed was in the national interest.”

    The goal is to move to “zero” troops by September, the senior administration official said. “This is not conditions-based. The president has judged that a conditions-based approach . . . is a recipe for staying in Afghanistan forever. He has reached the conclusion that the United States will complete its drawdown and will remove its forces from Afghanistan before September 11th.”

    Always feel weird about this subject. Feels wrong to just fuck off after breaking everything, but not sure we(/the people who would continue making the choices) could do any better staying.

    The best thing we could do right not is to try to get as many of our allies in the country out if possible. Maybe work out an agreement with the new government that we will provide aid as long as they dont go crazy with reprisals and oppression?

    Who knows. Bush really fucked the region over.

    From the relevant Radiolab episodes etc. it seems like it's actually often fairly difficult for people like interpreters and other people who have helped the US to actually be allowed to move stateside.

    Unless things have changed here the downside of withdrawal is probably a lot of people will be left behind and get killed eventually.

    PSN: Honkalot
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    Kamar wrote: »
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/biden-us-troop-withdrawal-afghanistan/2021/04/13/918c3cae-9beb-11eb-8a83-3bc1fa69c2e8_story.html
    “This is the immediate, practical reality that our policy review discovered,” said one person familiar with the closed-door deliberations who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss policy planning. “If we break the May 1st deadline negotiated by the previous administration with no clear plan to exit, we will be back at war with the Taliban, and that was not something President Biden believed was in the national interest.”

    The goal is to move to “zero” troops by September, the senior administration official said. “This is not conditions-based. The president has judged that a conditions-based approach . . . is a recipe for staying in Afghanistan forever. He has reached the conclusion that the United States will complete its drawdown and will remove its forces from Afghanistan before September 11th.”

    Always feel weird about this subject. Feels wrong to just fuck off after breaking everything, but not sure we(/the people who would continue making the choices) could do any better staying.

    The best thing we could do right not is to try to get as many of our allies in the country out if possible. Maybe work out an agreement with the new government that we will provide aid as long as they dont go crazy with reprisals and oppression?

    Who knows. Bush really fucked the region over.

    From the relevant Radiolab episodes etc. it seems like it's actually often fairly difficult for people like interpreters and other people who have helped the US to actually be allowed to move stateside.

    Unless things have changed here the downside of withdrawal is probably a lot of people will be left behind and get killed eventually.

    Trump's Muslim ban did not have exceptions for these people.

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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Well, yeah.

    He's also a fan of not paying contractors who did work for him.

    I'm sure screwing over people who assisted America while not being American fits nicely into his racist Bingo view of things as well. Like Chocolate and peanut butter, a mix of two things he loves.

    Hell, it wouldn't surprise if Miller wanted to personally flip off their children as well or something.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    Well this is going to lead to some exhausting think pieces.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Saudi intelligence has been doing a little bit of terrorism financing, according to the Danish public prosecutor. ASMLA is the group that claimed responsibility for the 2018 bombing that killed disabled veterans and kids, and then denied responsibility after Iran summoned the Danish and UK ambassadors to ask why Denmark was hosting them.
    (Reuters) - Denmark's public prosecutor said on Thursday it had charged three members of an Iranian Arab opposition group for financing and supporting terrorist activity in Iran in collaboration with Saudi Arabian intelligence services.

    The three members of the Arab Struggle Movement for the Liberation of Ahvaz (ASMLA) were arrested in February last year and have been in custody since.

    "This is a very serious case where persons in Denmark have carried out illegal intelligence activities and financed and promoted terrorism from Denmark in other countries," public prosecutor Lise-Lotte Nilas said in a statement.

    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2C214U

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    KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    A little bit. That's funny.

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    As a treat.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    3 days is a pretty quick turnaround from announcement to implementation.
    TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran began enriching uranium up to 60% purity Friday, its highest level ever, after an attack targeted its Natanz nuclear site, the country’s parliament speaker said.

    The comment by Mohammad Bagher Qalibaf, quoted by state television, did not elaborate on the amount Iran planned to enrich. However, it is likely to raise tensions even as Iran negotiates with world powers in Vienna over a way to allow the U.S. back into the agreement and lift the crushing economic sanctions it faces.

    https://apnews.com/article/israel-iran-benjamin-netanyahu-tehran-sabotage-ed89e322595004fddc65fd4e31c1131b

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    This much less so.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israel-reports-sirens-town-secretive-nuclear-reactor-77229945
    The military said the missile landed in Israel's Negev region, though it did not say whether anything was struck.

    Earlier, air raid sirens sounded in Dimona, the Negev town that is home to Israel's secretive nuclear reactor, indicating a possible incoming attack.

    Please do not drop missiles on the nuclear reactor thank you.

    Phoenix-D on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    That train left the station a long time ago.

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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Elki wrote: »
    That train left the station a long time ago.

    Syria/Iran are just responding in kind. Us and our allies throw shit at Natanz (that has yet to demonstrably produce weapons grade fissile material), they throw shit at Dimona, which has been churning out enriched uranium and weapons grade plutonium since 1967...allegedly (like the nuclear amimut is fooling anybody).

    BlackDragon480 on
    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    That train left the station a long time ago.

    Syria/Iran are just responding in kind. Us and our allies throw shit at Natanz (that has yet to demonstrably produce weapons grade fissile material), they throw shit at Dimona, which has been churning out enriched uranium and weapons grade plutonium since 1967...allegedly (like the nuclear amimut is fooling anybody).

    I would prefer if neither happened thank you very much!

    Stuxnet was bad enough but at least that didn't involve a reactor "just" potentially making a centrifuge spray shit and itself everywhere.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    There are a lot of people out there who would be very happy if nuclear warfare was the only significant threat to their survival.

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    This happened.
    Clashes between Palestinians from east Jerusalem and Israeli police around the Damascus gate entrance to the Old City erupted in a night of unrest that earlier saw Jewish extremists marching through another city street shouting "Death to Arabs."

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    I know Israel has been continuing their genocide by effectively denying Palestinians vaccines, but is there any sense of how COVID been hitting them? The population skews young, but I don’t know how much that matters in the absence of reasonable medical supplies.

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    TicaldfjamTicaldfjam Snoqualmie, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    daveNYC wrote: »
    This happened.
    Clashes between Palestinians from east Jerusalem and Israeli police around the Damascus gate entrance to the Old City erupted in a night of unrest that earlier saw Jewish extremists marching through another city street shouting "Death to Arabs."

    *SIGH*
    I am not lying, that I expect for us to see something akin to a Nuke going off somewhere in the region, within our lifetime. The hate is strong that spans thousands of years in those regions.

    It's a fucking miracle, or stroke of fucking luck that has yet to happen, with the powderkeg that is the middle east. Also, we , America,maybe should've kept our nose out of the world's shit after we started Vietnam and other Wars we have been involved ever since.

    Ticaldfjam on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    This happened.
    Clashes between Palestinians from east Jerusalem and Israeli police around the Damascus gate entrance to the Old City erupted in a night of unrest that earlier saw Jewish extremists marching through another city street shouting "Death to Arabs."

    *SIGH*
    I am not lying, that I expect for us to see something akin to a Nuke going off somewhere in the region, within our lifetime. The hate is strong that spans thousands of years in those regions.

    It's a fucking miracle, or stroke of fucking luck that has yet to happen, with the powderkeg that is the middle east. Also, we , America,maybe should've kept our nose out of the world's shit after we started Vietnam and other Wars we have been involved ever since.

    This isn't hate spanning a thousand years, but American white supremacy that got exported to Israel, and enabled by a prime minister desperate to save his own hide.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    This happened.
    Clashes between Palestinians from east Jerusalem and Israeli police around the Damascus gate entrance to the Old City erupted in a night of unrest that earlier saw Jewish extremists marching through another city street shouting "Death to Arabs."

    *SIGH*
    I am not lying, that I expect for us to see something akin to a Nuke going off somewhere in the region, within our lifetime. The hate is strong that spans thousands of years in those regions.

    It's a fucking miracle, or stroke of fucking luck that has yet to happen, with the powderkeg that is the middle east. Also, we , America,maybe should've kept our nose out of the world's shit after we started Vietnam and other Wars we have been involved ever since.

    This isn't hate spanning a thousand years, but American white supremacy that got exported to Israel, and enabled by a prime minister desperate to save his own hide.

    I don't think america needed to export sectarian conflict to Israel.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    This happened.
    Clashes between Palestinians from east Jerusalem and Israeli police around the Damascus gate entrance to the Old City erupted in a night of unrest that earlier saw Jewish extremists marching through another city street shouting "Death to Arabs."

    *SIGH*
    I am not lying, that I expect for us to see something akin to a Nuke going off somewhere in the region, within our lifetime. The hate is strong that spans thousands of years in those regions.

    It's a fucking miracle, or stroke of fucking luck that has yet to happen, with the powderkeg that is the middle east. Also, we , America,maybe should've kept our nose out of the world's shit after we started Vietnam and other Wars we have been involved ever since.

    This isn't hate spanning a thousand years, but American white supremacy that got exported to Israel, and enabled by a prime minister desperate to save his own hide.

    This is a pretty staggeringly US-centric way to view the world

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Did you know that other countries exist and also that sometimes those countries are how they are due to things other than America? Sometimes I go a whole ten seconds without thinking about America even once hard I know but :wink:

    I am messing around, not dissing. But it is worth remembering that like... we should try not to always look at things through the one lens

    Solar on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    If anything it is Russian white supremacy that got exported to both the US and Israel.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Don’t forget Britain!!!

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    This happened.
    Clashes between Palestinians from east Jerusalem and Israeli police around the Damascus gate entrance to the Old City erupted in a night of unrest that earlier saw Jewish extremists marching through another city street shouting "Death to Arabs."

    *SIGH*
    I am not lying, that I expect for us to see something akin to a Nuke going off somewhere in the region, within our lifetime. The hate is strong that spans thousands of years in those regions.

    It's a fucking miracle, or stroke of fucking luck that has yet to happen, with the powderkeg that is the middle east. Also, we , America,maybe should've kept our nose out of the world's shit after we started Vietnam and other Wars we have been involved ever since.

    This isn't hate spanning a thousand years, but American white supremacy that got exported to Israel, and enabled by a prime minister desperate to save his own hide.

    This is a pretty staggeringly US-centric way to view the world

    The people involved are known as Kahanists - followers of the ideology of Jewish supremacist Meir Kahane:



    The author is an editor for Haaretz.

    Kahane actually came from the US, and his own beliefs were shaped by American beliefs on white supremacy, before emigrating to Israel. And part of why followers of his ideology have been gaining clout is because Bibi has allowed them to gain political traction in in order to save his own hide, which is also why we're looking at a fifth election soon.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Four years group some Israeli soldiers saw fit to do a vaginal and anal “search” on a Palestinian woman they had detained. Questions were raised about this constituting rape and sodomy, and some sort of investigation was started. And closed now due to lack of evidence, or so they say. Haartez published a transcript of some interviews.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT.MAGAZINE-it-started-with-palestinian-s-arrest-it-ended-with-israeli-officers-probed-for-rape-1.9737766
    Investigator: Is there legal authority to conduct a search of this kind?
    Clerk: As far as I am concerned, the authority is the commander who issues an order. The order is an order.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    ....just... fuck.

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    'first as a tragedy, then as a farce'

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    'first as a tragedy, then as a farce'

    "Never again"*

    (* to us)

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    The article is saying it's for subscribers only, but as with so many rape cases, damn everyone involved to hell who say there is a "lack of evidence" as though the victim's testimony is not evidence.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    And I wasn't picking an isolated comment, it's kind of a theme.
    The battalion commander wasn’t in the house during the search, but was asked if it was possible that the search was intended to put pressure on the detainee. “Looking back, it could be. It was determined that she could hide [it] in her vagina, so it was necessary to search her in [other] slits, too. I get an order and I assume it’s legal. The atmosphere is an atmosphere that we’re going to block a terrorist attack, so there are red signposts [together] with moral signposts and the lives of fighters. We’re talking about a terrorist, with all due respect.”
    Medic: I just don’t remember. I always exercise judgment. It didn’t shock me so much. Was I happy about it? Not really, but the ‘headline’ above it was that she was a Hamas money woman, so I assumed that if I’d been given that order, I could count on my commanders that they wouldn’t let me execute it for no reason.
    I did it with the respect due to her, and it was good that I was the one who did it and not someone else. I felt that it was a last resort. It’s not my place to cast doubt on the commanders.

    And I guess I missed this part earlier, part of the decision to close the case is that it's most likely the broken laws will be considered moot. The occupied lands are not covered by Israeli laws, so even if you could prove the rape, then...
    The search law, which prohibits a vaginal search unless by court order and only if done by a gynecologist, is not valid in the territories. What goes down in the West Bank, stays in the West Bank.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Palestinians shouldn't have to brave or tenacious, but they are.

    20210510_142325.jpeg?w=770&resize=770%2C578
    Written on top of the sculpture with rubber-coated steel bullets are the words in Arabic ‘You will not pass’ [Ibrahim Husseini/Al Jazeera]

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/10/israeli-forces-raid-al-aqsa-compound-live

    That's the whole past 10 years in the middle east, people bravely confronting the world's most grotesque set of regimes. Everything I've seen done this week by the state of Israel has been revolting.

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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Palestinians shouldn't have to brave or tenacious, but they are.

    20210510_142325.jpeg?w=770&resize=770%2C578
    Written on top of the sculpture with rubber-coated steel bullets are the words in Arabic ‘You will not pass’ [Ibrahim Husseini/Al Jazeera]

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/10/israeli-forces-raid-al-aqsa-compound-live

    That's the whole past 10 years in the middle east, people bravely confronting the world's most grotesque set of regimes. Everything I've seen done this week by the state of Israel has been revolting.

    Hard to look at it and feel the situation is anything but hopeless. The US right is pro genocide, the 'left' is basically okay with it as long as the AIPAC dollars keep coming, and the progressives don't have enough power to change anything. So with no pressure on Israel to stop, they will keep going. I mean even as liberal as this forum is, any criticism of them is basically a third rail - see the insta locked BDS thread.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited May 2021

    (The official Twitter feed of The National, the UAE and Middle East's premier news source, with top stories, special features and more.)
    Reporters press US State Department on Palestinian right to self-defence
    #EastJerusalem
    #AlAqsa

    Want to see a US State spokesman try to avoid having to answer the question of whether or not Palestinians have a right to self-defense and also avoiding condemning the killing of Palestinian children?

    DarkPrimus on
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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited May 2021


    Yang has ended up being like All The Worst Things About Democrats + UBI.

    tinwhiskers on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2021
    Tweeter is a member of the Israeli parliament.



    Genocide enthusiasts reveling in the violence they see. People up were being brutalized, and losing eyes to bullets in the face, and they’re singing to celebrate it.

    And I feel cowardly for being this damn old and not sticking to this simple principle, but not a single fucking vote for anyone supporting/funding ethnic cleansing. Go eat shit.

    Elki on
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This discussion has been closed.