Also I cant tell if that is a typo in the Fireteam card or not, that limits your entire KillTeam to a single plasma gunner, or if the limit is only supposed to be 1 plasma gunner per FireTeam
Also I cant tell if that is a typo in the Fireteam card or not, that limits your entire KillTeam to a single plasma gunner, or if the limit is only supposed to be 1 plasma gunner per FireTeam
So its each Kill Team of Guardsman has 2 Fireteams within it. Each fireteam can only have 3 gunners (of differing kinds) and the total overall Kill Team can only have each of the gunners once. So I believe you read it correctly. Each over all Kill Team can only have each gunner type once and then the Fire team within it can only have 3 operatives.
I may get more than a little salty over that, as it means I can’t carry forward my Tau KillTeam with 3 Rail Rifles, and I no longer have the bits and definitely don’t have the interest in breaking models apart to rebuild and repaint for more variety in weapon choices because of an arbitrary rules change on GWs part.
I can understand Astartes teams not liking facing a plasma spam list, but good use of cover, CP abilities, and melee combat meant it was very possible to counter.
The new system is overly restrictive and has me getting more unhappy that GW chose a ground up rebuild instead of improving on the existing system. It also reduces my faith trust that they will fix any issues with this new system instead of just waiting a few years and doing a complete wipe and start from scratch again.
I may get more than a little salty over that, as it means I can’t carry forward my Tau KillTeam with 3 Rail Rifles, and I no longer have the bits and definitely don’t have the interest in breaking models apart to rebuild and repaint for more variety in weapon choices because of an arbitrary rules change on GWs part.
I can understand Astartes teams not liking facing a plasma spam list, but good use of cover, CP abilities, and melee combat meant it was very possible to counter.
The new system is overly restrictive and has me getting more unhappy that GW chose a ground up rebuild instead of improving on the existing system. It also reduces my faith trust that they will fix any issues with this new system instead of just waiting a few years and doing a complete wipe and start from scratch again.
I saw in some of the comments on Glass Half Dead's video reminding that we still don't know what the archetype does effect wise, and we don't have any options for the Tempestus Scions they list at the top? So perhaps it could be the Fire Team of 7 Guardsman/Gunners and like 5 Scions or some other number for the next Fire Team?
I don't know if that specifically addresses the idea that they might not want people stacking one particular type of model anymore - but I think its a safe bet that there are more options than we can see based on this very limited segment of rules.
GW seem to be moving away from letting you build units in 40K that require you to get multiple boxes some you can spam one weapon in a single unit.
For example you used to be able to have skitarri units with multiple sniper rifles but the kit only let you build 1 out of 10. They’ve now changed that in the admech book and I think that philosophy is better (AoS got this right)
That seems to be filtering down to kill team.
One reason why they might be limiting plasma guns for guard is because the (death korp) kit only allows you to build one. Plasma is supposed to be rare tech anyway; it’s not made sense how freely available it is for guard.
The pathfinder kit allows to build 3 rail rifles in it, so I’d expect you’ll still be able to have that in a kill team. It’s probably going to be drones that see some changes
Primaris Hellblasters suggest Plasma isn’t rare at all.
Astartes only having 1 Fireteam means that it may restrict them to a pure Reavers, or pure Scouts, or pure Tactical Squad teams.
Mostly it comes down to trust, and having purchased Pariah Nexus and getting the rules invalidated within 6 months while having a number of silent retcons on WarCom articles for it, has soured my trust.
I'm trying not to hold pre-judgment on the new Kill Team, but I got back into 40K after a long hiatus with the AdMech/Cult Kill Team, then jumped into 8th edition, and then Kill Team got blown up and 8th got replaced by the broken mess that is 9th, so I'm finding it difficult.
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
The reason to take more troopers is that you can’t run a fire team without at least six, and you have two fire teams to create each game. Oh and you can’t add bodies that aren’t on your roster to a team.
Primaris Hellblasters suggest Plasma isn’t rare at all.
Space Marines get better equipment because Space Marines are important. Guardsmen are not important. Guardsmen don't even get names. Tanks get names, Guardsmen get numbers. In a universe where nine digit casualty counts could be considered "acceptable losses", and the simple Lasgun is worth significantly more than the Guardsman who carries it, it's not unusual to think that the distribution of plasma weapons might be limited amongst the Imperial Guard.
According to 'the internet', using info from novels and codexes to make a best guess on chapter composition, the Primaris-only chapters that were created as part of the Ultima Founding have, between all of their companies, ten squads of Hellblasters (who all use plasma), fifty four Inceptors (who might use plasma), twenty one Redemptors (who might use plasma), and two Astreaus Tanks (who each can take two plasma cannons). If half of the Inceptors and Redemptors use plasma weapons than you're looking at around 170 or so plasma weapons being wielded, plus whatever backup/reserve weapons they may have in their armory.
How does a brand new chapter already have 21 Dreadnoughts? I don't know, ask the Black Library guys I guess.
I think the whole "Having an assload of plasma toting Marines" is just a throwback to the Heresy era Marine organizational structure, where it was common to have squads with every member carrying the same weapon. Since Primaris Marines were (sigh) designed during the Heresy era but secretly stashed away for 10,000 years so that they could be asspulled reintroduced for the Indomitus Crusade :rotate: it makes sense I guess. It was also a good way to differentiate Primaris Marines from the more flexible Firstborn Marines, who were able to mix special and heavy weapons into their Tactical/Devastator/Assault/Terminator squads much easier.
Primaris Hellblasters suggest Plasma isn’t rare at all.
Space Marines get better equipment because Space Marines are important. Guardsmen are not important. Guardsmen don't even get names. Tanks get names, Guardsmen get numbers. In a universe where nine digit casualty counts could be considered "acceptable losses", and the simple Lasgun is worth significantly more than the Guardsman who carries it, it's not unusual to think that the distribution of plasma weapons might be limited amongst the Imperial Guard.
According to 'the internet', using info from novels and codexes to make a best guess on chapter composition, the Primaris-only chapters that were created as part of the Ultima Founding have, between all of their companies, ten squads of Hellblasters (who all use plasma), fifty four Inceptors (who might use plasma), twenty one Redemptors (who might use plasma), and two Astreaus Tanks (who each can take two plasma cannons). If half of the Inceptors and Redemptors use plasma weapons than you're looking at around 170 or so plasma weapons being wielded, plus whatever backup/reserve weapons they may have in their armory.
How does a brand new chapter already have 21 Dreadnoughts? I don't know, ask the Black Library guys I guess.
I think the whole "Having an assload of plasma toting Marines" is just a throwback to the Heresy era Marine organizational structure, where it was common to have squads with every member carrying the same weapon. Since Primaris Marines were (sigh) designed during the Heresy era but secretly stashed away for 10,000 years so that they could be asspulled reintroduced for the Indomitus Crusade :rotate: it makes sense I guess. It was also a good way to differentiate Primaris Marines from the more flexible Firstborn Marines, who were able to mix special and heavy weapons into their Tactical/Devastator/Assault/Terminator squads much easier.
Clearly, the Dreadnoughts were not nailed down when the Blood Ravens paid a visit.
So, with the book stuff now leaked I can actually finish the Ork army I started right at at the start of 9th. Most of the stuff I think will be good has arrived today so I’ve been building it. Just waiting on my bikes.
I’m looking to start as something like
Goffs detachment
Ghaz
2x 30 boyz
10 grots
Trukk
10 nobz with big choppas who are trukk boyz
Evil Sunz detachment
Big Mek with mega armour and relic shooter and tellyport blasta
Warboss who is also trukk boyz. Brutal but kunning and killer claw
10 x lootas (with 2x spanner’s with mega blasters because you have to take them now)
Another trukk
Bike squad.
There’s still some points to be spent here to flex the list with, and I need to decide exactly what and how HQs go with ghaz, but the basic gist is that this list can reach out and touch your army early with some serious threats. The bikes can output tons of shooting, and the trukk boyz nobz warboss combo is a serious melee threat with incredible range (turn one of you waagh) and the extra range on both the bikes and looters mean getting into dakka range is tribal (especially as the looters ride the other trukk)
You’ve then got the two big units of boyz and Ghaz to follow up with.
This list does assume that the current issue of trukk boyz not being able to ride a truck gets fixed in such a way that the warboss and nobz can ride the same truck. Having a unit that can move 20”, possibly then advance and the come in with 30-40 str 7 -1 2dmg attacks hitting on 2’s seems fun as hell.
I know as I said the article poorly explained how do you build and equip your team. As with certain armies can you really take 20 Custodes? How many of that can you field in games? how can you do replacements in a campaign? Is it the mission card/page that limits what you can take for that mission so you are not facing 10 csm with 10 guard?
It looks like each faction will have very specific killteam/fireteam compositions. So your roster might be 20 units, but then you can only field like, 4 of them in a game as Custodes.
The roster system seems similar to what it was like in the previous edition, and was a thing no one ever used properly but was actually kind of cool.
Show up to the game with your roster of 20 guys, look at your opponents roster of 20 guys, and THEN select which specific ones you want to send into the fight as a killteam.
So, with the book stuff now leaked I can actually finish the Ork army I started right at at the start of 9th. Most of the stuff I think will be good has arrived today so I’ve been building it. Just waiting on my bikes.
I’m looking to start as something like
Goffs detachment
Ghaz
2x 30 boyz
10 grots
Trukk
10 nobz with big choppas who are trukk boyz
Evil Sunz detachment
Big Mek with mega armour and relic shooter and tellyport blasta
Warboss who is also trukk boyz. Brutal but kunning and killer claw
10 x lootas (with 2x spanner’s with mega blasters because you have to take them now)
Another trukk
Bike squad.
There’s still some points to be spent here to flex the list with, and I need to decide exactly what and how HQs go with ghaz, but the basic gist is that this list can reach out and touch your army early with some serious threats. The bikes can output tons of shooting, and the trukk boyz nobz warboss combo is a serious melee threat with incredible range (turn one of you waagh) and the extra range on both the bikes and looters mean getting into dakka range is tribal (especially as the looters ride the other trukk)
You’ve then got the two big units of boyz and Ghaz to follow up with.
This list does assume that the current issue of trukk boyz not being able to ride a truck gets fixed in such a way that the warboss and nobz can ride the same truck. Having a unit that can move 20”, possibly then advance and the come in with 30-40 str 7 -1 2dmg attacks hitting on 2’s seems fun as hell.
If points didn't matter, how would you build your trukk nobz?
The orks army I ran through eighth was a straight speed mob with some deff dreads and converted Gorkanauts.
With the new book coming out I ordered a trukk and a box of nobs to build in more of an infantry detachment, but I didn't realize you had to get them either double melee weapons, shooter/choppa, or with a Combi weapon. I thought you could go Kombi/Klaw but that doesn't work.
Also, still deciding on Goffs vs deathskulls, but it'll probably be goffs
Goffs are probably just flat out the best option for any kind of melee unit honestly
As for the nobz if points didn’t matter I would probably do kombi-burnaza and claws to maximise the output. Realistically nobz are still expensive (even if they did get cheaper) and I think you either go double choppa to clear infantry or big choppa for more generalist squads.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Warhammer 40K: Battlesector seems like a good 40K game. I'd like it more if it was Ultramarines and not Blood Angels, but hey. I'm just building my force like it is Ultramarines.
I feel like the compendium signals that its gonna cover "all the shit you already own and want to use" so they can then release curated "kill team boxes" with unique models/compositions etc.
The Dire Avenger's profile mentions Overwatch actions, which I don't think had been brought up before.
My guess is that they fit into the "other" category they were talking about previously. What I thought was interesting is that it implies that overwatch lowers your ballistic skill unless you have something to counteract it like "Defense Tactics"
Boo Hiss on getting another book to play kill team BOO
I’m sorry, did you miss the name of the publisher?
Seriously, “buy another book” is GW’s MO for anything even vaguely related to new content and has been for years.
We’re just lucky it’s not four compendium books: space marines, imperium, xenos, and chaos. Again.
Also I’m pretty sure they mentioned this on the stream so it’s not like this is a surprise revelation today.
Boo Hiss on getting another book to play kill team BOO
I’m sorry, did you miss the name of the publisher?
Seriously, “buy another book” is GW’s MO for anything even vaguely related to new content and has been for years.
We’re just lucky it’s not four compendium books: space marines, imperium, xenos, and chaos. Again.
Also I’m pretty sure they mentioned this on the stream so it’s not like this is a surprise revelation today.
Really I have not bought the Drukhari book because it's out of print and kind of hard to get for list price and the army I would play is DLC in another book I have to justify spending 50+ on getting
I feel like the compendium signals that its gonna cover "all the shit you already own and want to use" so they can then release curated "kill team boxes" with unique models/compositions etc.
The compendium signals that every faction has at least one unit in the new KillTeam.
It looks very much like they are rolling back the Elites / Commander/ Pariah Nexus expansion units.
Looking at the Fireteam cards for Astra Militarum and then the KillTeam website mostly confirms that Bullgry/Ogryn are gone again until some possible future expansion again.
Unless they decide they don’t like the new system and start all over again.
I feel like the compendium signals that its gonna cover "all the shit you already own and want to use" so they can then release curated "kill team boxes" with unique models/compositions etc.
The compendium signals that every faction has at least one unit in the new KillTeam.
It looks very much like they are rolling back the Elites / Commander/ Pariah Nexus expansion units.
Looking at the Fireteam cards for Astra Militarum and then the KillTeam website mostly confirms that Bullgry/Ogryn are gone again until some possible future expansion again.
Unless they decide they don’t like the new system and start all over again.
I feel by the website they learned a lesson about people just taking elites and/or commanders as for the most part it's nothing much troops
Also, still deciding on Goffs vs deathskulls, but it'll probably be goffs
Goffs are probably just flat out the best option for any kind of melee unit honestly
As for the nobz if points didn’t matter I would probably do kombi-burnaza and claws to maximise the output. Realistically nobz are still expensive (even if they did get cheaper) and I think you either go double choppa to clear infantry or big choppa for more generalist squads.
But can you do a kombi-burna AND klaw? With the new datasheet it looks like you have to swap your shoota/choppa for either two melee weapons or a single kombi weapon? Or do you mean a mixed squad of shooty nobz and klaw nobz?
I feel like the compendium signals that its gonna cover "all the shit you already own and want to use" so they can then release curated "kill team boxes" with unique models/compositions etc.
The compendium signals that every faction has at least one unit in the new KillTeam.
It looks very much like they are rolling back the Elites / Commander/ Pariah Nexus expansion units.
Looking at the Fireteam cards for Astra Militarum and then the KillTeam website mostly confirms that Bullgry/Ogryn are gone again until some possible future expansion again.
Unless they decide they don’t like the new system and start all over again.
I feel by the website they learned a lesson about people just taking elites and/or commanders as for the most part it's nothing much troops
Yeah, but Craftworlds without Aspect Warriors just feels wrong.
Yeah if howling banshees arent in the game theyre already writing the first expansion
Gotta sell those books.
New KillTeam core book
Compendium book for the other faction fireteam cards
And theoretical first expansion book to bring back some of the model range they purposely removed from the reboot so they can charge to bring them back.
Posts
MWO: Adamski
So its each Kill Team of Guardsman has 2 Fireteams within it. Each fireteam can only have 3 gunners (of differing kinds) and the total overall Kill Team can only have each of the gunners once. So I believe you read it correctly. Each over all Kill Team can only have each gunner type once and then the Fire team within it can only have 3 operatives.
So it would be like
Kill Team - Guardsman
Fireteam 1
Sergeant
Flamer
Grenade Launcher
Meltagun
Trooper
Trooper
Trooper
Fireteam 2
Plasma Gun
Sniper Rifle
Comms
Trooper
Trooper
Trooper
Trooper
I can understand Astartes teams not liking facing a plasma spam list, but good use of cover, CP abilities, and melee combat meant it was very possible to counter.
The new system is overly restrictive and has me getting more unhappy that GW chose a ground up rebuild instead of improving on the existing system. It also reduces my faith trust that they will fix any issues with this new system instead of just waiting a few years and doing a complete wipe and start from scratch again.
MWO: Adamski
I saw in some of the comments on Glass Half Dead's video reminding that we still don't know what the archetype does effect wise, and we don't have any options for the Tempestus Scions they list at the top? So perhaps it could be the Fire Team of 7 Guardsman/Gunners and like 5 Scions or some other number for the next Fire Team?
I don't know if that specifically addresses the idea that they might not want people stacking one particular type of model anymore - but I think its a safe bet that there are more options than we can see based on this very limited segment of rules.
GW seem to be moving away from letting you build units in 40K that require you to get multiple boxes some you can spam one weapon in a single unit.
For example you used to be able to have skitarri units with multiple sniper rifles but the kit only let you build 1 out of 10. They’ve now changed that in the admech book and I think that philosophy is better (AoS got this right)
That seems to be filtering down to kill team.
One reason why they might be limiting plasma guns for guard is because the (death korp) kit only allows you to build one. Plasma is supposed to be rare tech anyway; it’s not made sense how freely available it is for guard.
The pathfinder kit allows to build 3 rail rifles in it, so I’d expect you’ll still be able to have that in a kill team. It’s probably going to be drones that see some changes
Astartes only having 1 Fireteam means that it may restrict them to a pure Reavers, or pure Scouts, or pure Tactical Squad teams.
Mostly it comes down to trust, and having purchased Pariah Nexus and getting the rules invalidated within 6 months while having a number of silent retcons on WarCom articles for it, has soured my trust.
MWO: Adamski
Like I always say, it's never too early to panic.
We'll see if that is worth missing out on a special weapon.
The Kommando list really seems to boil down to which single one of the 10 options you don't want to take.
Scrounging box splits at release seems like it'll be a pain. I hate haggling with people on facebook groups, etc.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Space Marines get better equipment because Space Marines are important. Guardsmen are not important. Guardsmen don't even get names. Tanks get names, Guardsmen get numbers. In a universe where nine digit casualty counts could be considered "acceptable losses", and the simple Lasgun is worth significantly more than the Guardsman who carries it, it's not unusual to think that the distribution of plasma weapons might be limited amongst the Imperial Guard.
According to 'the internet', using info from novels and codexes to make a best guess on chapter composition, the Primaris-only chapters that were created as part of the Ultima Founding have, between all of their companies, ten squads of Hellblasters (who all use plasma), fifty four Inceptors (who might use plasma), twenty one Redemptors (who might use plasma), and two Astreaus Tanks (who each can take two plasma cannons). If half of the Inceptors and Redemptors use plasma weapons than you're looking at around 170 or so plasma weapons being wielded, plus whatever backup/reserve weapons they may have in their armory.
How does a brand new chapter already have 21 Dreadnoughts? I don't know, ask the Black Library guys I guess.
I think the whole "Having an assload of plasma toting Marines" is just a throwback to the Heresy era Marine organizational structure, where it was common to have squads with every member carrying the same weapon. Since Primaris Marines were (sigh) designed during the Heresy era but secretly stashed away for 10,000 years so that they could be asspulled reintroduced for the Indomitus Crusade :rotate: it makes sense I guess. It was also a good way to differentiate Primaris Marines from the more flexible Firstborn Marines, who were able to mix special and heavy weapons into their Tactical/Devastator/Assault/Terminator squads much easier.
Clearly, the Dreadnoughts were not nailed down when the Blood Ravens paid a visit.
I’m looking to start as something like
Goffs detachment
Ghaz
2x 30 boyz
10 grots
Trukk
10 nobz with big choppas who are trukk boyz
Evil Sunz detachment
Big Mek with mega armour and relic shooter and tellyport blasta
Warboss who is also trukk boyz. Brutal but kunning and killer claw
10 x lootas (with 2x spanner’s with mega blasters because you have to take them now)
Another trukk
Bike squad.
There’s still some points to be spent here to flex the list with, and I need to decide exactly what and how HQs go with ghaz, but the basic gist is that this list can reach out and touch your army early with some serious threats. The bikes can output tons of shooting, and the trukk boyz nobz warboss combo is a serious melee threat with incredible range (turn one of you waagh) and the extra range on both the bikes and looters mean getting into dakka range is tribal (especially as the looters ride the other trukk)
You’ve then got the two big units of boyz and Ghaz to follow up with.
This list does assume that the current issue of trukk boyz not being able to ride a truck gets fixed in such a way that the warboss and nobz can ride the same truck. Having a unit that can move 20”, possibly then advance and the come in with 30-40 str 7 -1 2dmg attacks hitting on 2’s seems fun as hell.
The roster system seems similar to what it was like in the previous edition, and was a thing no one ever used properly but was actually kind of cool.
Show up to the game with your roster of 20 guys, look at your opponents roster of 20 guys, and THEN select which specific ones you want to send into the fight as a killteam.
If points didn't matter, how would you build your trukk nobz?
The orks army I ran through eighth was a straight speed mob with some deff dreads and converted Gorkanauts.
With the new book coming out I ordered a trukk and a box of nobs to build in more of an infantry detachment, but I didn't realize you had to get them either double melee weapons, shooter/choppa, or with a Combi weapon. I thought you could go Kombi/Klaw but that doesn't work.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Goffs are probably just flat out the best option for any kind of melee unit honestly
As for the nobz if points didn’t matter I would probably do kombi-burnaza and claws to maximise the output. Realistically nobz are still expensive (even if they did get cheaper) and I think you either go double choppa to clear infantry or big choppa for more generalist squads.
Create Kill Teams for Your Faction of Choice With the Kill Team Compendium
I feel like the compendium signals that its gonna cover "all the shit you already own and want to use" so they can then release curated "kill team boxes" with unique models/compositions etc.
The Dire Avenger's profile mentions Overwatch actions, which I don't think had been brought up before.
My guess is that they fit into the "other" category they were talking about previously. What I thought was interesting is that it implies that overwatch lowers your ballistic skill unless you have something to counteract it like "Defense Tactics"
The wording on their card implies overwatch is more widely available and they are just better at it.
Nope
Seriously, “buy another book” is GW’s MO for anything even vaguely related to new content and has been for years.
We’re just lucky it’s not four compendium books: space marines, imperium, xenos, and chaos. Again.
Also I’m pretty sure they mentioned this on the stream so it’s not like this is a surprise revelation today.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Really I have not bought the Drukhari book because it's out of print and kind of hard to get for list price and the army I would play is DLC in another book I have to justify spending 50+ on getting
The compendium signals that every faction has at least one unit in the new KillTeam.
It looks very much like they are rolling back the Elites / Commander/ Pariah Nexus expansion units.
Looking at the Fireteam cards for Astra Militarum and then the KillTeam website mostly confirms that Bullgry/Ogryn are gone again until some possible future expansion again.
Unless they decide they don’t like the new system and start all over again.
MWO: Adamski
I feel by the website they learned a lesson about people just taking elites and/or commanders as for the most part it's nothing much troops
But can you do a kombi-burna AND klaw? With the new datasheet it looks like you have to swap your shoota/choppa for either two melee weapons or a single kombi weapon? Or do you mean a mixed squad of shooty nobz and klaw nobz?
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Yeah, but Craftworlds without Aspect Warriors just feels wrong.
MWO: Adamski
Gotta sell those books.
New KillTeam core book
Compendium book for the other faction fireteam cards
And theoretical first expansion book to bring back some of the model range they purposely removed from the reboot so they can charge to bring them back.
MWO: Adamski