I feel like I've seen like three Matt Taven matches and yet I can't remember anything from them and yet I feel like I've also seen every Matt Taven match.
The one at the RoH/NJPW Garden show was an hour and felt like three so if thats one you watcjed thats probably why.
You know occasionally you hear about how like...students at MIT were able to slow light by refracting it through a bottle or something...
and I think that's what happens but with every Matt Taven match.
Nobody enjoys hearing about how recently Karl Andersen came? Philistines all of you.
Nah, I've tried watching it here and there but I just was so tired of the elite and their shtick and it was really 90% of the episode. Maybe now that they're all on the downturn I'll try again.
I mostly enjoy it as a thing to watch while working out
Also having, you know, watched a fair amount during their New Japan days, got a little more sunk cost to it
I fell behind several months back but want to catch up to see how the Dark Order is doing, of course
There is some Dark Order content on BTE nowadays but not anywhere near the extent it was. Reynolds and Silver have some bits with Adam Cole, but for the most part their full group bits are just gone.
I think the Young Bucks made the right move to start returning the focus of BTE to themselves. There are...6(?) backstage vlogs now (BTE, Sammy's, Allie's, Ethan's, Thunder Rosa's, Evil Uno's), if you want to follow a particular one, or all of them.
The downside is I don't think we have group Dark Order bits in any of them now, which is a real fuckin' shame.
I keep intending to catch back up on BTE but the Good Brothers were the biggest problem
Gonna have to get back to that
The true horror is that whenever their TNA contracts are fully up their AEW friends will give them jobs and prominent positions.
I mean, they were given offers before and turned them down and wound up where they are, if I recall correctly
Not sure if they'd give them another offer after that
The idea was they wanted to be able to work NJPW again (specifically in Japan), which TNA allowed for but AEW did not. The pandemic ruined their attempts at a return, but I imagine if the situation changed they would sign up with AEW in a heartbeat considering how much AEW used them.
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
edited November 2021
Catching up on New Japan and one thing I've noticed about the entire Strong brand is that production quality shifts wildly from taping to taping. Sometimes the arena looks great, sometimes it's looks like FCW. The white balance changes with every camera shot. Some crowds are big and loud and sometimes there's like 30 people in the audience. Occasionally they have audio mixing issues. It's like when the Pokemon games would show evolution by flickering between two sprites but it's New Japan proper and 2013 ROH.
I think watching ECW in my adolescence has warped my perception of these things because I actually like and prefer it to WWE's over-polished presentation where every single second of RAW looks the same. Obviously given the choice I'd like something done competently like AEW, New Japan proper or Freelance Wrestling. But if the choice is cookie cutter entrances and LED ring aprons or dank and janky I'm going to smoke that dank jank every time.
The only two production things that really put me off of a show are camera work that's so bad it's impossible to follow the action and terrible audio quality, like when the audio doesn't sync with the video.
But yeah, I'll take a dimly lit warehouse with a crowd of 100 over a brightly lit arena pretty much any day, both on screen and in person.
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
man, Mark Henry is doing some Dark matches and I can't remember what he was originally signed to commentate but its a shame he got shuffled back on Rampage because he's really good and he works well with Taz. Put Jericho and Starks in the garbage can. Give me some Henry.
I like him on commentary, he's laid back and sort of subtle with his humor. I find the Jericho and Starks combo to be exhausting. It's too much energy and takes away from the matches.
But yeah, I'll take a dimly lit warehouse with a crowd of 100 over a brightly lit arena pretty much any day, both on screen and in person.
I was actually discussing this very topic with a friend while watching NXT last night and we wondered if the normal, casual person actually gets turned off by that. It also spiraled into a greater discussion about the fans / viewers / numbers.
Like, NXT looks like it's in a small, overproduced, high school gym with a few fans. It kind of kills the THIS FEELS IMPORTANT and adds to me not giving a shit. I mean, I think NXT 2.0 is bad, anyways, but it just greatly contributes to it.
We also used to go to a lot of local shows (and were probably in the same room as you multiple times now that I think about it) at Chikara, RoH, CZW, GCW, etc. Yay for East Coast living near Philly (Delaware, woo!). One of the things that we laughed about was that we'd go to Philly for Chikara, Baltimore or Philly or New York for RoH, New Jersey for CZW (fuck going to the farm in Delaware for Tournament of Death, I live here but na), and even a SUPER local indy called Right Coast Pro which was where I saw the guy who tag teams with the rapper in AEW for the first time, etc., and we'd see the same people in the audience from Maryland to New York. They'd travel!
....but we're still talking only a few hundred people. There were differences, obviously, and the ones we recognize just stood out more probably, but we saw so many of the same people at a lot of the shows that we seriously wondered at how small the actual fanbases were.
**
Then we started talking about ratings and TV. Wrestling, in its prime, used to pull sixes and sevens on two competing shows at the same time. Now, WWE can get like a 2.0, maybe, and AEW is struggling again to break a million on Dynamite (and failing) and Rampage is stuck around 500k.
The ratings are fucking terrible all-round.
TV is in a different spot, now, and a 2.0 rating (or even a 1.0) can be considered good nowadays for TV but....it definitely is not penetrating pop culture at a sub 1 and is firmly in the who gives a shit category. It's good enough to keep on the air and paid for, but....it's just kind of there, y'know?
In the media scrum after the PPV, CM Punk was talking about how he didn't think there are casual wrestling fans anymore and it's just die hards, even for AEW. I think he's right and think that's a very very bad thing, long term.
But yeah, I'll take a dimly lit warehouse with a crowd of 100 over a brightly lit arena pretty much any day, both on screen and in person.
My favorite events have been smaller ones, first row, etc (although somehow we got first row to MSG New Japan / ROH show and that was amazing), so I agree for at least part of your statement. In person? Small shows are great.
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
edited November 2021
I know Bron is Rick's kid, but damn if he doesn't look almost exactly like Scott from their first WCW run when they feuded with the Freebirds, just with a goatee.
And fuck, am I old.
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Like, NXT looks like it's in a small, overproduced, high school gym with a few fans. It kind of kills the THIS FEELS IMPORTANT and adds to me not giving a shit. I mean, I think NXT 2.0 is bad, anyways, but it just greatly contributes to it.
So I only watched the episode of NXT 2.0 with Tony D'Angelo's debut (because how could I not!) and it's definitely a stark change from what NXT had been since 2013 or so. I think one of the under-rated things about Full Sail, at least on-camera, is how they always worked to hide the fact that it was a smaller venue. That definitely added to the perception of it.
We also used to go to a lot of local shows (and were probably in the same room as you multiple times now that I think about it) at Chikara, RoH, CZW, GCW, etc. Yay for East Coast living near Philly (Delaware, woo!). One of the things that we laughed about was that we'd go to Philly for Chikara, Baltimore or Philly or New York for RoH, New Jersey for CZW (fuck going to the farm in Delaware for Tournament of Death, I live here but na), and even a SUPER local indy called Right Coast Pro which was where I saw the guy who tag teams with the rapper in AEW for the first time, etc., and we'd see the same people in the audience from Maryland to New York. They'd travel!
....but we're still talking only a few hundred people. There were differences, obviously, and the ones we recognize just stood out more probably, but we saw so many of the same people at a lot of the shows that we seriously wondered at how small the actual fanbases were.
Oh god, yeah the fanbase in this region is deceptively small. There's a perception that it's way bigger than it is because there are so many companies that run the New York City > New Jersey > Philly > Baltimore stretch, but it's really a dozen-ish companies all competing in the same small market. The trick is that much of the fanbase is loyal (like you said, you see the same faces at so many events) and willing to travel. It does seem like the indie fanbase has grown somewhat recently, especially due to GCW putting AEW names on their Showboat cards. But then you wonder how many of those fans are going to stick around when Matt Cardona or Jon Moxley or whoever aren't wrestling.
although somehow we got first row to MSG New Japan / ROH show and that was amazing
You had a front-row view for Madison Square Taven?!
You had a front-row view for Madison Square Taven?!
Fuck yes we did.
Jay White tried to kill me by tossing Okada into us, but luckily I saw it coming and moved my wheelchair out of the way before Okada landed.
Jay and I locked eyes and I saw him hesitate / think about it, but I knew he'd go through with it instead of choosing a different corner.
As for Taven....given the storylines in RoH and how long they'd been building up to it, I say with no sarcasm having Taven win was the correct outcome.
It does seem like the indie fanbase has grown somewhat recently, especially due to GCW putting AEW names on their Showboat cards. But then you wonder how many of those fans are going to stick around when Matt Cardona or Jon Moxley or whoever aren't wrestling.
How is it at Showboat, anyways? I was considering going to the next one there.
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How is it at Showboat, anyways? I was considering going to the next one there.
I dig it. A bit of the charm has been lost now that they installed that arcade and it doesn't feel quite as much like an abandoned hotel, but it's still shitty enough to make for a great aesthetic.
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HawkstoneDon't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered Userregular
How is it at Showboat, anyways? I was considering going to the next one there.
I dig it. A bit of the charm has been lost now that they installed that arcade and it doesn't feel quite as much like an abandoned hotel, but it's still shitty enough to make for a great aesthetic.
Not sure I would stay there, but I could see it being fun to go to a show...Hard Rock and Ocean have cleaner/Nicer Hotel rooms.
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It's not just the production of WWE being too slick, although probably related, its that every arena and show they run is setup the exact same way. I don't think US venues really have the alternative layouts that other countries have, but it doesn't help that their stage is the same no matter where they're at. AEW does seem to alternate between a normal ramp or an elevated ramp and the Daley's Place shows looked cool because US shows aren't run in venues with weird layouts. NJPW has such a drastic change between their venues that you really notice that the shows are in different places.
The H2O show in the baseball stadium was cool because you could really see it was a baseball stadium and it's just different than most shows.
It's not just the production of WWE being too slick, although probably related, its that every arena and show they run is setup the exact same way. I don't think US venues really have the alternative layouts that other countries have, but it doesn't help that their stage is the same no matter where they're at. AEW does seem to alternate between a normal ramp or an elevated ramp and the Daley's Place shows looked cool because US shows aren't run in venues with weird layouts. NJPW has such a drastic change between their venues that you really notice that the shows are in different places.
The H2O show in the baseball stadium was cool because you could really see it was a baseball stadium and it's just different than most shows.
Yeah, NJPW really evokes how special each venue is, whereas with WWE or even AEW they'll be like, "We're live in Madison Square Garden!" and I'm like, "Sure you are."
It's not just the production of WWE being too slick, although probably related, its that every arena and show they run is setup the exact same way. I don't think US venues really have the alternative layouts that other countries have, but it doesn't help that their stage is the same no matter where they're at. AEW does seem to alternate between a normal ramp or an elevated ramp and the Daley's Place shows looked cool because US shows aren't run in venues with weird layouts. NJPW has such a drastic change between their venues that you really notice that the shows are in different places.
The H2O show in the baseball stadium was cool because you could really see it was a baseball stadium and it's just different than most shows.
Yeah, NJPW really evokes how special each venue is, whereas with WWE or even AEW they'll be like, "We're live in Madison Square Garden!" and I'm like, "Sure you are."
Yeah, the need to brand and make everything "presentable" for tv is a big part of this with both WWE and AEW. WWE just takes it the extra mile of making every arena look even more homogeneous. From a business perspective I totally get it, though I hate it aesthetically.
It's almost the opposite of what you sometimes see on shows from Japan. At times there's so little branding on camera that if you're unfamiliar with the wrestlers in the ring you may have no idea what company you're watching. Especially when it's a venue that everyone runs, like Korakuen Hall.
Anyway, who wants to see Chris Brookes get run over with a truck tire?!
MAO vs Chris Brookes from one of this past weekend's DDT shows.
A peak bullshit match as expected from these two. I'd say that they're saying "fuck it" because they've both been eliminated from the B Block at this point, but let's be honest. If they actually had something to fight for it'd be even more bonkers.
My training from WWE teaches me that anyone who cares about the environment is most certainly a heel (although, you know, buying a new car doesn't benefit the environment, even if it's electric.
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LasbrookIt takes a lot to make a stewWhen it comes to me and youRegistered Userregular
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You know occasionally you hear about how like...students at MIT were able to slow light by refracting it through a bottle or something...
and I think that's what happens but with every Matt Taven match.
I mean, they were given offers before and turned them down and wound up where they are, if I recall correctly
Not sure if they'd give them another offer after that
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There is some Dark Order content on BTE nowadays but not anywhere near the extent it was. Reynolds and Silver have some bits with Adam Cole, but for the most part their full group bits are just gone.
I think the Young Bucks made the right move to start returning the focus of BTE to themselves. There are...6(?) backstage vlogs now (BTE, Sammy's, Allie's, Ethan's, Thunder Rosa's, Evil Uno's), if you want to follow a particular one, or all of them.
The downside is I don't think we have group Dark Order bits in any of them now, which is a real fuckin' shame.
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The idea was they wanted to be able to work NJPW again (specifically in Japan), which TNA allowed for but AEW did not. The pandemic ruined their attempts at a return, but I imagine if the situation changed they would sign up with AEW in a heartbeat considering how much AEW used them.
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I think watching ECW in my adolescence has warped my perception of these things because I actually like and prefer it to WWE's over-polished presentation where every single second of RAW looks the same. Obviously given the choice I'd like something done competently like AEW, New Japan proper or Freelance Wrestling. But if the choice is cookie cutter entrances and LED ring aprons or dank and janky I'm going to smoke that dank jank every time.
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But yeah, I'll take a dimly lit warehouse with a crowd of 100 over a brightly lit arena pretty much any day, both on screen and in person.
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It’s why I don’t mind how AEW has production screw-ups sometimes, it just makes it feel more alive and real.
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Like, NXT looks like it's in a small, overproduced, high school gym with a few fans. It kind of kills the THIS FEELS IMPORTANT and adds to me not giving a shit. I mean, I think NXT 2.0 is bad, anyways, but it just greatly contributes to it.
We also used to go to a lot of local shows (and were probably in the same room as you multiple times now that I think about it) at Chikara, RoH, CZW, GCW, etc. Yay for East Coast living near Philly (Delaware, woo!). One of the things that we laughed about was that we'd go to Philly for Chikara, Baltimore or Philly or New York for RoH, New Jersey for CZW (fuck going to the farm in Delaware for Tournament of Death, I live here but na), and even a SUPER local indy called Right Coast Pro which was where I saw the guy who tag teams with the rapper in AEW for the first time, etc., and we'd see the same people in the audience from Maryland to New York. They'd travel!
....but we're still talking only a few hundred people. There were differences, obviously, and the ones we recognize just stood out more probably, but we saw so many of the same people at a lot of the shows that we seriously wondered at how small the actual fanbases were.
**
Then we started talking about ratings and TV. Wrestling, in its prime, used to pull sixes and sevens on two competing shows at the same time. Now, WWE can get like a 2.0, maybe, and AEW is struggling again to break a million on Dynamite (and failing) and Rampage is stuck around 500k.
The ratings are fucking terrible all-round.
TV is in a different spot, now, and a 2.0 rating (or even a 1.0) can be considered good nowadays for TV but....it definitely is not penetrating pop culture at a sub 1 and is firmly in the who gives a shit category. It's good enough to keep on the air and paid for, but....it's just kind of there, y'know?
In the media scrum after the PPV, CM Punk was talking about how he didn't think there are casual wrestling fans anymore and it's just die hards, even for AEW. I think he's right and think that's a very very bad thing, long term.
**
And just to go back to your original comment -
My favorite events have been smaller ones, first row, etc (although somehow we got first row to MSG New Japan / ROH show and that was amazing), so I agree for at least part of your statement. In person? Small shows are great.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
And fuck, am I old.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
(Kevin Owens blocks Austin Theory on Twitter.)
So I only watched the episode of NXT 2.0 with Tony D'Angelo's debut (because how could I not!) and it's definitely a stark change from what NXT had been since 2013 or so. I think one of the under-rated things about Full Sail, at least on-camera, is how they always worked to hide the fact that it was a smaller venue. That definitely added to the perception of it.
Oh god, yeah the fanbase in this region is deceptively small. There's a perception that it's way bigger than it is because there are so many companies that run the New York City > New Jersey > Philly > Baltimore stretch, but it's really a dozen-ish companies all competing in the same small market. The trick is that much of the fanbase is loyal (like you said, you see the same faces at so many events) and willing to travel. It does seem like the indie fanbase has grown somewhat recently, especially due to GCW putting AEW names on their Showboat cards. But then you wonder how many of those fans are going to stick around when Matt Cardona or Jon Moxley or whoever aren't wrestling.
You had a front-row view for Madison Square Taven?!
Jay White tried to kill me by tossing Okada into us, but luckily I saw it coming and moved my wheelchair out of the way before Okada landed.
Jay and I locked eyes and I saw him hesitate / think about it, but I knew he'd go through with it instead of choosing a different corner.
As for Taven....given the storylines in RoH and how long they'd been building up to it, I say with no sarcasm having Taven win was the correct outcome.
How is it at Showboat, anyways? I was considering going to the next one there.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I dig it. A bit of the charm has been lost now that they installed that arcade and it doesn't feel quite as much like an abandoned hotel, but it's still shitty enough to make for a great aesthetic.
Not sure I would stay there, but I could see it being fun to go to a show...Hard Rock and Ocean have cleaner/Nicer Hotel rooms.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
The H2O show in the baseball stadium was cool because you could really see it was a baseball stadium and it's just different than most shows.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
Yeah, NJPW really evokes how special each venue is, whereas with WWE or even AEW they'll be like, "We're live in Madison Square Garden!" and I'm like, "Sure you are."
Yeah, the need to brand and make everything "presentable" for tv is a big part of this with both WWE and AEW. WWE just takes it the extra mile of making every arena look even more homogeneous. From a business perspective I totally get it, though I hate it aesthetically.
It's almost the opposite of what you sometimes see on shows from Japan. At times there's so little branding on camera that if you're unfamiliar with the wrestlers in the ring you may have no idea what company you're watching. Especially when it's a venue that everyone runs, like Korakuen Hall.
MAO vs Chris Brookes from one of this past weekend's DDT shows.
A peak bullshit match as expected from these two. I'd say that they're saying "fuck it" because they've both been eliminated from the B Block at this point, but let's be honest. If they actually had something to fight for it'd be even more bonkers.
In the brilliant words of MAO - "FUCKED UP WRESTLING FOR A FUCKED UP WORLD!"
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He's doing it for the environment.
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