How has nobody commented on that fucking gorgeous Intro? so good.
Honestly, that intro was some of the best placesetting for a series like this I've EVER seen. It told where it needed to and showed where it was better.
How has nobody commented on that fucking gorgeous Intro? so good.
Honestly, that intro was some of the best placesetting for a series like this I've EVER seen. It told where it needed to and showed where it was better.
I should clarify when I say the gorgeous intro I mean the themesong thing that plays between the cold open and the episode from ep 2 onward
How has nobody commented on that fucking gorgeous Intro? so good.
Honestly, that intro was some of the best placesetting for a series like this I've EVER seen. It told where it needed to and showed where it was better.
I should clarify when I say the gorgeous intro I mean the themesong thing that plays between the cold open and the episode from ep 2 onward
I'll need to formulate a more complete analysis later but as of the Taren Ferry scene I am confident in saying this sucks. Lost all the charm of the original and is just the usual grim dark crap.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
I'm all in in on this ride, though I do have one nit to pick. Its definitely not a big thing but I was waiting for it and it didn't happen.
Episode 3/Book Differences
Darkfriend says what? Once she pulled the sword, i was all set for a "Great Lord of the Dark" dun dun dun and she just called him the plain old Dark One, booooo.
Also, big book spoilers to end of series
If they manage to make it to the end and not get cancelled, that little scene with Tam talking about the Wheel is going to pay off huge with the feels. I can already see the flashbacks/callback when Rand has his moment on Dragonmount.
Episode 3 was the strongest by far—mostly because the story finally slowed down and let itself breathe. Whatever else one can say about the show, they nailed the casting. Every major character is firing on all cylinders, as well as most of the supporting cast.
Spoilers for Episodes 3:
-Dana was a great way to combine the Darkfriends Rand/Mat ran into post-Shadar Logoth. She did a fantastic job going from flirtatious bar maid to unhinged stalker. The look in her eyes when she talked about breaking the Wheel..
-Thom is fucking fantastic.
-Breaking down the iron door is 100% the first time Rand channeled. And it is 1,000% in-character that it occurred because he was being stubborn as a mule. Tai'shar Manetheren, motherfuckers.
I don't know, I thought channeling (the magic stuff) looked better than I expected—though I agree with others who've said the threads should be colored. The trollocs are best when it's fully practical; when they lean more CGI it stands out a little too much.
I'll need to formulate a more complete analysis later but as of the Taren Ferry scene I am confident in saying this sucks. Lost all the charm of the original and is just the usual grim dark crap.
What? I'm almost done with ep 3 and there is like, 0 grimdark going on here. I'm not even sure we're watching the same show. Are you and Aphostile watching the silly one off they did a few years back with the Forsaken talking to Lews Therin?
Book 1 had some fairly dark moments, because they spent a lot of it being chased by monstrous forces, and these were mostly kids plucked out of a small town village life, and:
Essentially three of them were going insane for different reasons.
Evil is real and palpable (and multi-faceted) in this world.
I do have a concern that there are only 5 more episodes left in the season. If they can do it though, I'd rather they not pad it. The adaptations they've done have largely resonated with me.
The events that have happened, roughly line up with about page 350 of a 750 page book, so percentage-wise it's about on pace, though they've also added some extra stuff.
I do wish they'd been able to do maybe 10 episodes?
book 1
And they did say they drastically cut down Rand and Mat's journey. That one covered quite a few chapters cause they stopped in like 5 different towns and villages (and it also told the whole thing out of order originally). We do know Else Grinwell has been cast, though she's much younger. And they're not doing Caemlyn at all.
While the show isn't any darker than the books, Jordan's prose tended to gloss over the worst bits.
Episode 1/Book 1 spoilers:
One of the first things you learn about trollocs is that they eat people. It's just that books either obliquely mentioned it or faded to black before the om-noms started.
If the show attempted to do the same, it'd get tossed in the YA box regardless of whatever else it had going on.
Episode 2 spoilers:
While the ferryman's death is an addition, that's something book Moiraine would absolutely do. For her, literally everything is secondary to helping the Dragon Reborn win the Last Battle.
While the show isn't any darker than the books, Jordan's prose tended to gloss over the worst bits.
Episode 1/Book 1 spoilers:
One of the first things you learn about trollocs is that they eat people. It's just that books either obliquely mentioned it or faded to black before the om-noms started.
If the show attempted to do the same, it'd get tossed in the YA box regardless of whatever else it had going on.
Episode 2 spoilers:
While the ferryman's death is an addition, that's something book Moiraine would absolutely do. For her, literally everything is secondary to helping the Dragon Reborn win the Last Battle.
I Agree with you, but. grimdark usually applies to one of two things.
1) Crapsack worlds, where there is no good really, (40k, GoT, etc)
2) "darkened" versions of more popular genres, DCEU for instance, or some of the darker DCAU stuff.
The big difference between WoT and GoT is in your very #1 spoiler, and if it was GoT, it would linger on it. Here, in both TV and in movie, it happens, it's monstrous, and we move on right quick. Even the book 2 spoiler is a choice by someone, along with pragmatism. "I don't like that this is happening, but the alternative is FAR FAR FAR worse".
so like, perrin didn't even have a wife in the books right? Why'd they go and make it so much darker...?
The assumption is
To give axe vs hammer a much stronger focal point
To expand on this a bit, early books spoilers
Let me just start this out by saying I hate hate hate Fridge-wife.
But Perrin's whole character arc for the first few books is that he's mopey about having cool wolf powers and being dangerous because he was raised being personally worried in his own mind about hurting his friends because he's too strong. It's hard to show that kind of mental struggle onscreen. Fridging an artificially generated wife condenses 200 pages of his internal strife into one crystalized moment.
I'm not saying I like it, I just see what they're doing.
so like, perrin didn't even have a wife in the books right? Why'd they go and make it so much darker...?
The assumption is
To give axe vs hammer a much stronger focal point
To expand on this a bit, early books spoilers
Let me just start this out by saying I hate hate hate Fridge-wife.
But Perrin's whole character arc for the first few books is that he's mopey about having cool wolf powers and being dangerous because he was raised being personally worried in his own mind about hurting his friends because he's too strong. It's hard to show that kind of mental struggle onscreen. Fridging an artificially generated wife condenses 200 pages of his internal strife into one crystalized moment.
I'm not saying I like it, I just see what they're doing.
I thought it was fine, except:
They gave her almost no characterization. Why was she mopey? I honestly gasped at the moment when things happened as I didn't see it happening that way... I SHOULD have, but I didn't. If we don't find out she has some kind of pre-perception powers a la min, I'll be annoyed. Like, if she knew he was going to kill her, and that it was soon, it could totally add a lot more depth to both characters.
What follows is stream of conciousness notes from watching all 3 eps back to back.
So many spoilers
Episode 1
Loved it
Trollocs a bit more CGI than I hoped but still good.
Lan is dope
Tam was great
Mat's parents change is fucking stupid. I LOATHE it. Just awful.
Perrins wife is like a double door, smart fridge. Again, fucking stupid.
Acting was good
village felt real, Two Rivers exists.
Kinda bummed we skipped the struggle through the forest with Rand and Tam but eh, they have to keep that mystery of who the dragon is for some stupid reason I guess.
Episode 2
The opening credits with the loom and weaving is just flat out amazing.
Ferry scene was great, weighty decisions.
Lan? Still dope
Egwene is cast SO GOOD. She is just killing it
BTW, scenery is great. This is another NZ score of finding beautiful places in the world.
Perrin thing - Still dumb. A big strong dude can have a complex about violence/his own strength without having killed his own fucking wife by accident.
Throat bats? wtf
Costume designer nailed it, deserves an emmy
What the actual fuck? Moiraine Damodred kowtowing to whitecloaks? go fuck yourself. This isn't a thing that would occur.
Mandarb is as beastly as can be hoped for.
Singing! Loved it - Would have loved the speech at the inn but pretty great way to introduce it anyway. Legit teared up.
Aridhol (HAH!) looked great, so well done
The actor they chose for Perrin is exactly what my head cannon was, he is great.
I thought it was an ok change to make Matt find the dagger
Moiraine would NEVER say "You've killed us all" to Lan. Weeeeeiiird changes.
I really liked how they did Mashadar
Nynaeve fucking boss move.
Episode 3
Nynaeve, cold ass killer. Badass.
Nynaeve is just super good so far.
Perrin thing continues to be stupid
City set piece with Matt and Rand = Great
Thom fucking Merrilin come on now. I may even overlook the patched cloak.
I don't think this is an effective way to introduce the wolf brother thing but meh, I don't have better ideas.
Rand is very Rand and I'm for it. They done a good job.
Matt serving beers is fucking hilarious
Maybe an aside but the Bartender/innkeeper lady is phenomenal actress. If this is the last we see of her, we'll be poorer for it.
Perrin thing is still stupid
Tuatha'an - they did it. These tinkers mended my pots.
hoooly shit that was an good fucking turn. 3 sentences ago I loved that lady and bam, darkfriend. So good.
Darkfriend chase scene through town with a sword is dumb.
Liked the sympathetic darkfriend monologue (fucking Thom Merilin though hah!)
Why wouldn't Liandrin even attempt to heal Moiraine? bollocks.
Overall first 3 eps:
Really enjoyed it. I'll keep watching for sure.
I don't like the Matt / Perrin origin stuff and I think they are fucking up Perrin altogether.
The whitecloaks being a "big" threat is weird
Rand, Moiraine and Lan are great, feels right. Nynaeve and Egwene are another level of great.
Locations / scenery is very good.
CGI is almost good. Good enough.
Liandrin is better cast than my head canon, amazing.
so like, perrin didn't even have a wife in the books right? Why'd they go and make it so much darker...?
The assumption is
To give axe vs hammer a much stronger focal point
To expand on this a bit, early books spoilers
Let me just start this out by saying I hate hate hate Fridge-wife.
But Perrin's whole character arc for the first few books is that he's mopey about having cool wolf powers and being dangerous because he was raised being personally worried in his own mind about hurting his friends because he's too strong. It's hard to show that kind of mental struggle onscreen. Fridging an artificially generated wife condenses 200 pages of his internal strife into one crystalized moment.
I'm not saying I like it, I just see what they're doing.
I thought it was fine, except:
They gave her almost no characterization. Why was she mopey? I honestly gasped at the moment when things happened as I didn't see it happening that way... I SHOULD have, but I didn't. If we don't find out she has some kind of pre-perception powers a la min, I'll be annoyed. Like, if she knew he was going to kill her, and that it was soon, it could totally add a lot more depth to both characters.
It was dumb and will continue to be dumb until the wheel turns and the show comes again and changes it. They could have ABSOLUTELY shown Perrin being cautious or overly concerned with physicality with his friends but no, let's kill some random woman with no connection to the viewer and give Perrin PTSD about it. It's a stupid decision and will remain so.
What follows is stream of conciousness notes from watching all 3 eps back to back.
So many spoilers
Episode 1
Loved it
Trollocs a bit more CGI than I hoped but still good.
Lan is dope
Tam was great
Mat's parents change is fucking stupid. I LOATHE it. Just awful.
Perrins wife is like a double door, smart fridge. Again, fucking stupid.
Acting was good
village felt real, Two Rivers exists.
Kinda bummed we skipped the struggle through the forest with Rand and Tam but eh, they have to keep that mystery of who the dragon is for some stupid reason I guess.
Episode 2
The opening credits with the loom and weaving is just flat out amazing.
Ferry scene was great, weighty decisions.
Lan? Still dope
Egwene is cast SO GOOD. She is just killing it
BTW, scenery is great. This is another NZ score of finding beautiful places in the world.
Perrin thing - Still dumb. A big strong dude can have a complex about violence/his own strength without having killed his own fucking wife by accident.
Throat bats? wtf
Costume designer nailed it, deserves an emmy
What the actual fuck? Moiraine Damodred kowtowing to whitecloaks? go fuck yourself. This isn't a thing that would occur.
Mandarb is as beastly as can be hoped for.
Singing! Loved it - Would have loved the speech at the inn but pretty great way to introduce it anyway. Legit teared up.
Aridhol (HAH!) looked great, so well done
The actor they chose for Perrin is exactly what my head cannon was, he is great.
I thought it was an ok change to make Matt find the dagger
Moiraine would NEVER say "You've killed us all" to Lan. Weeeeeiiird changes.
I really liked how they did Mashadar
Nynaeve fucking boss move.
Episode 3
Nynaeve, cold ass killer. Badass.
Nynaeve is just super good so far.
Perrin thing continues to be stupid
City set piece with Matt and Rand = Great
Thom fucking Merrilin come on now. I may even overlook the patched cloak.
I don't think this is an effective way to introduce the wolf brother thing but meh, I don't have better ideas.
Rand is very Rand and I'm for it. They done a good job.
Matt serving beers is fucking hilarious
Maybe an aside but the Bartender/innkeeper lady is phenomenal actress. If this is the last we see of her, we'll be poorer for it.
Perrin thing is still stupid
Tuatha'an - they did it. These tinkers mended my pots.
hoooly shit that was an good fucking turn. 3 sentences ago I loved that lady and bam, darkfriend. So good.
Darkfriend chase scene through town with a sword is dumb.
Liked the sympathetic darkfriend monologue (fucking Thom Merilin though hah!)
Why wouldn't Liandrin even attempt to heal Moiraine? bollocks.
Overall first 3 eps:
Really enjoyed it. I'll keep watching for sure.
I don't like the Matt / Perrin origin stuff and I think they are fucking up Perrin altogether.
The whitecloaks being a "big" threat is weird
Rand, Moiraine and Lan are great, feels right. Nynaeve and Egwene are another level of great.
Locations / scenery is very good.
CGI is almost good. Good enough.
Liandrin is better cast than my head canon, amazing.
Long and short, I would like to see more about Perrin's wife, as noted above. I'm not opposed to how they are introducing the concept of the weapon vs the tool to him, but it suggests they may write out Elias, which is... less thrilling. Darkfriend chick and Thom are both spot on.
so like, perrin didn't even have a wife in the books right? Why'd they go and make it so much darker...?
The assumption is
To give axe vs hammer a much stronger focal point
To expand on this a bit, early books spoilers
Let me just start this out by saying I hate hate hate Fridge-wife.
But Perrin's whole character arc for the first few books is that he's mopey about having cool wolf powers and being dangerous because he was raised being personally worried in his own mind about hurting his friends because he's too strong. It's hard to show that kind of mental struggle onscreen. Fridging an artificially generated wife condenses 200 pages of his internal strife into one crystalized moment.
I'm not saying I like it, I just see what they're doing.
Ya, and same with
Abel Cauthon slander, right. Mat's "scoundrel? hero? both??" conflict isn't as unmoored as Perrin's thing in the books. But "You're just like your father [derogatory]" does get you there faster
I think we'll more characterization for Laila as the show goes on, but I'm not sure it'll be enough. I get what they're going for—even beyond the fact that Perrin's early arc is so internal, it's also less...dire than what happens to the other Superboys. In the first two books, Rand finds out he's going to go insane and he has to save the world first while Mat has part of his soul eaten by an eldritch abomination. Meanwhile, Perrin learns to talk to wolves and is very scared about it.
That said, I think it would've been better had it been Master Luhan rather than creating a new character. You still get the emotional connection but avoid fridging.
However, I will say two positive things about it. First, Laila's actress had great presence for someone with so little screentime or dialogue. Second, I love that she went out kicking ass as Perrin's equal.
One great change is how he was supportive of Egwene's channeling when she started the fire. That's a welcome departure from the books—two lines of dialogue show that Perrin cares deeply for his friends.
Regarding Egwene:
Centering her growing relationship with Moiraine on empathy is small but wonderful change. In Book 1, Egwene's a little insufferable—she forces the party to take her along because she wants a grand adventure and doesn't really grasp the gravity of the situation until later.
Regarding Nynaeve:
Everything about her portrayal is perfect.
I've seen complaints about the pool scene...and it's dumb. Some people attack any departure from the books on instinct, without considering if it could work. Every change they've made so far, even I disagree with them, has been to make better TV. So they move Thom's introduction to keep the Emond's Field portion from being overcrowded, condense the second act villages into a single town, and bring characters' internal struggles to the forefront.
The pool scene exists to show that Nynaeve is intelligent, brave, and skilled before she finds out about the Power. People complaining that it's "unrealistic" for a girl to solo a trolloc are straight sexist and missed the point of the entire series.
Regarding Mat:
I like the change because giving Mat a sympathetic backstory means he’s less of a useless jackass than he is in Books 1-2.
The scene in episode 3 with the dead Aiel doesn’t work with Book 1 Mat, and it was the best scene in the episode.
Regarding Rand:
I’m not ready for a world where Rand al’Thor has game. That move with the strawberry was smooth.
As I said earlier, the scene with the iron door was a fantastic way to adapt his early channeling. I know a lot of people, even book readers, are going to miss that detail until it’s spelled out.
Over/under we get a big montage of all his channeling when the reveal drops?
One thing I'm curious to see is how the show deals with the accents of characters from different lands. I'm guessing (spoilers for first weekend policy)
the answer is going to be "not at all" considering the Tuatha'an, Lan & Moiraine so far being the only people we've really met who hail from outside of Andor and they all spoke with "vaguely British Isles" accents just like everyone else. Perhaps (book spoilers now, a bit of book 1 and probably from 3 and beyond)
they will give some accents to very memorable characters like Bayle Domon or very foreign peoples like the Seanchan. It still tickles me that years after wondering what their "slurring accent" was supposed to be I looked it up online and found RJ had said that it was basically a Texas drawl. "Y'all now bow before the Empress, may she live forever, y'hear?" :biggrin:
While the show isn't any darker than the books, Jordan's prose tended to gloss over the worst bits.
It absolutely is. A short lost of things that have been grittied up:
Mat's backstop
Giving Perrin a wife just so he can kill her
The ferry scene
Nynaeve throwing Egwene off a cliff
Removing all the funny parts
Ruining Thom's entire character. Actual Thom would have performed something exciting or humorous not depressing country blues, and acted literally nothing like he did here.
It's a matter of tone. Yes messed up shit happens. Plenty of times it even happens on screen, as it were. But most of the time the actual tone of the story is more high adventure, closer to something like The Hobbit or a shounen anime. The latter is a particularly good example I think because plenty of shounen also have really dark shit in them but it is used to punctuate the happy go lucky parts. Wheel of Time is at the end of the day optimistic. And the books are funny. I got to the aforementioned ferry scene and realized I had not laughed at anything in one and a half episodes. The show is pretty relentlessly dour, I can maybe identify one or two scenes that make any attempt at humor. Even the scenes before shit hits the fan are focused on serious interpersonal drama instead of wacky hijinks. The ferry is just what crystallized this for me:
In the books this is a tense but comedic scene. From the boys attempts at looking menacing, to Lan slowly pulling more and more gold out of his bag of holding, to Moraine being like "Oh my, it seems an unseasonal whirlpool had destroyed your ferry. How unfortunate. Here's some gold." It serves to make Moraine slightly menacing without making her unheroic or unsympathetic. Unlike the show. Sure Moraine will do what needs to be done but she is not actually heartless about it. She deliberately lured them all off the ferry first. We see this more clearly when she does her best to tell the innkeeper at Barleon to not try to cover for them, and when that doesn't work actually sends them enough gold to build an inn twice the size.
Even in this situation, Book Lan or Moraine would have knocked that guy out and said he'll probably be fine until he wakes up, we need to go, and that would have shown an appropriate level of ruthlessness while creating the correct tone.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
One thing I'm curious to see is how the show deals with the accents of characters from different lands. I'm guessing (spoilers for first weekend policy)
the answer is going to be "not at all" considering the Tuatha'an, Lan & Moiraine so far being the only people we've really met who hail from outside of Andor and they all spoke with "vaguely British Isles" accents just like everyone else. Perhaps (book spoilers now, a bit of book 1 and probably from 3 and beyond)
they will give some accents to very memorable characters like Bayle Domon or very foreign peoples like the Seanchan. It still tickles me that years after wondering what their "slurring accent" was supposed to be I looked it up online and found RJ had said that it was basically a Texas drawl. "Y'all now bow before the Empress, may she live forever, y'hear?" :biggrin:
Re: that accent book 2 on
I think you're hitting the wrong Texas accent. He said slurring. You want Boomhauer
Talkingboutdangolthereturngitdangrmemberoathsbloodofarturhawkingyouknow
I thought the first two episodes weren’t great. The main characters all look like CW drama kids, not like people that live in a medieval-tech village. A lot of it felt pretty generic, especially the music. The channeling never felt right or properly impactful
I think we'll more characterization for Laila as the show goes on, but I'm not sure it'll be enough. I get what they're going for—even beyond the fact that Perrin's early arc is so internal, it's also less...dire than what happens to the other Superboys. In the first two books, Rand finds out he's going to go insane and he has to save the world first while Mat has part of his soul eaten by an eldritch abomination. Meanwhile, Perrin learns to talk to wolves and is very scared about it.
That said, I think it would've been better had it been Master Luhan rather than creating a new character. You still get the emotional connection but avoid fridging.
However, I will say two positive things about it. First, Laila's actress had great presence for someone with so little screentime or dialogue. Second, I love that she went out kicking ass as Perrin's equal.
One great change is how he was supportive of Egwene's channeling when she started the fire. That's a welcome departure from the books—two lines of dialogue show that Perrin cares deeply for his friends.
Regarding Egwene:
Centering her growing relationship with Moiraine on empathy is small but wonderful change. In Book 1, Egwene's a little insufferable—she forces the party to take her along because she wants a grand adventure and doesn't really grasp the gravity of the situation until later.
Regarding Nynaeve:
Everything about her portrayal is perfect.
I've seen complaints about the pool scene...and it's dumb. Some people attack any departure from the books on instinct, without considering if it could work. Every change they've made so far, even I disagree with them, has been to make better TV. So they move Thom's introduction to keep the Emond's Field portion from being overcrowded, condense the second act villages into a single town, and bring characters' internal struggles to the forefront.
The pool scene exists to show that Nynaeve is intelligent, brave, and skilled before she finds out about the Power. People complaining that it's "unrealistic" for a girl to solo a trolloc are straight sexist and missed the point of the entire series.
Regarding Mat:
I like the change because giving Mat a sympathetic backstory means he’s less of a useless jackass than he is in Books 1-2.
The scene in episode 3 with the dead Aiel doesn’t work with Book 1 Mat, and it was the best scene in the episode.
Regarding Rand:
I’m not ready for a world where Rand al’Thor has game. That move with the strawberry was smooth.
As I said earlier, the scene with the iron door was a fantastic way to adapt his early channeling. I know a lot of people, even book readers, are going to miss that detail until it’s spelled out.
Over/under we get a big montage of all his channeling when the reveal drops?
100% agree regarding Egwene, Rand, and Nynaeve.
Perrin (book 1)
I get why they did it. Between them being older than the books, where they were like..17-18 in the first one, and the fact that a lot of Perrin's conflict is as you said internal, and relatively mild compared to the others. I know realistically, killing someone is a big deal that sticks with a person, but in the context of the books, where the first kills that kept haunting him were fucking WhiteCloaks, who are, as frequently mentioned, terrible, made it a little hard to buy him being worried about his berserker rage. But the Laila thing was at best fridge adjacent, and probably only saved by virtue of the fact the show is handling the rest of the women better.
Mat
Also get why they did it, just wish they'd found a different way to do it. Or just maybe have Mat be in a bit of a shiftless period in his life or something. Maybe if they'd had more time to give to Emond's Field before fleeing they could have managed it. They had to change the whole Cauthon family for the worse to accomplish it.
That Aiel scene was excellent though and I'm really looking forward to more Thom.
My wife who never read the books thought episode 1 was really good and wants to keep watching.
Great success.
I who reread the books multiple times but never did the last three and hadn't touched it since before the last three thought the episode was good but kept having "did they change this for the show or do i just not remember?" moments.
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
With the caveat that the show is having to lay a lot of groundwork very quickly, I think it's turned out pretty well so far. I think the actual cast are doing a fantastic job, little ehhhh on Mat but he's coming round by ep 3.
Rutherford in particular has done a great job with Perrin's very deliberate, careful movement, it's hard to tell how much is me projecting book onto the performance but I think he's hitting Perrin's understated nature out of the park imo
The Power should absolutely 100% be coloured though, I suppose it's possible that will happen as characters get more familiar with it but sadly I'm not convinced that will happen.
I refuse to let myself get too attached to him since we know his actor is changing from season 2 on, but I really hope the dude replacing him keeps 2 things: his fashion sense, and the way the clothes just drape off his frame.
Even kids with well adjusted family lives and good friends act like clowns and do mischievous shit. They did not have to make him come from an essentially broken home with a shithead dad who doesn't care about his family and a drunk mom. He's not supposed to hate the world/his family he's supposed to be a clown who gets in over his head doing dumb stuff.
I think this is something they got 100% wrong and I hate it.
It won't stop me watching the show and I hope they get the rest of Mat right.
Perrin
I really like how the actor is portraying him in terms of care for his friends and how he moves and acts.
Oops I killed my wife now I'm depressed and scared to use violence is a dumb way to get to the end goal of having Perrin be uncomfortable using his size and strength to do violence. They didn't need to do it on winternight it could have come later.
Also, he's just not gonna tell anyone he killed his wife? Even by accident? I don't think that jives with Book Perrin either.
Nynaeve & Egwene
I thought virtually all the scenes with Nynaeve and Egwene were really good and don't really have any criticism there.
One Power
CGI for it and how much Moiraine moved around (especially on winternight) seemed a bit off from how I pictured it but I can forgive the show for that.
It absolutely should have colour or more individual "threads".
I liked that they're not holding back on use of the power and making it more of just a thing that Aes Sedai use for whatever (e.g. heat up the bath).
Liandrin scene
Why the eff are there only 5 Red Sisters out there gentling the guy? Can't afford more horses/actors? seems like a silly change for no reason.
I really like how the actor is portraying him in terms of care for his friends and how he moves and acts.
Oops I killed my wife now I'm depressed and scared to use violence is a dumb way to get to the end goal of having Perrin be uncomfortable using his size and strength to do violence. They didn't need to do it on winternight it could have come later.
Also, he's just not gonna tell anyone he killed his wife? Even by accident? I don't think that jives with Book Perrin either.
Liandrin scene
Why the eff are there only 5 Red Sisters out there gentling the guy? Can't afford more horses/actors? seems like a silly change for no reason.
Perrin (spoilers for all books)
To be fair, Perrin didn’t tell Faile about the wolves until they’d been married for a year and the world was ending.
His being very quiet about extreme emotional distress might be the most in-character thing about the show :P
Liandrin
Other Red sisters might’ve been killed during the fight.
First off. THEY SAID MANETHEREN OUT LOUD. Now people actually know how to pronounce my fucking screen name finally. That whole scene was great with the song.
Also to those mentioning it. Thom DOES have the patches. They are visible as the lining of his coat when he first sits down. It’s subtle but a nice nod to it without making it look silly. Also Thom is completely different than I expected but holy shit he is awesome.
Book/show spoilers
Holy shit Padan Fain.
They definitely made it a little more obvious the twist with him.
But that guy is gonna look terrifying once he changes. That smile. My god.
First off. THEY SAID MANETHEREN OUT LOUD. Now people actually know how to pronounce my fucking screen name finally. That whole scene was great with the song.
Also to those mentioning it. Thom DOES have the patches. They are visible as the lining of his coat when he first sits down. It’s subtle but a nice nod to it without making it look silly. Also Thom is completely different than I expected but holy shit he is awesome.
Book/show spoilers
Holy shit Padan Fain.
They definitely made it a little more obvious the twist with him.
But that guy is gonna look terrifying once he changes. That smile. My god.
I didn't care for how obvious they made it. I did like just how absolutely PSYCHOTIC Eamon Valda was, and how you could see the difference between the normal Whitecloaks and the Spanish Inq.... er Questioners. You still don't want to fuck with normal Whitecloaks, but, they are generally trying to do good, even if badly.[/quote]
Posts
Honestly, that intro was some of the best placesetting for a series like this I've EVER seen. It told where it needed to and showed where it was better.
2. BOOOOO THEY CUT MORDETH!
I should clarify when I say the gorgeous intro I mean the themesong thing that plays between the cold open and the episode from ep 2 onward
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I still stand by my point.
Lan:
Lan: Ties Nynaeve up to a tree and gags her.
Nynaeve:
Episode 3/Book Differences
Also, big book spoilers to end of series
Episode 3 was the strongest by far—mostly because the story finally slowed down and let itself breathe. Whatever else one can say about the show, they nailed the casting. Every major character is firing on all cylinders, as well as most of the supporting cast.
Spoilers for Episodes 3:
-Thom is fucking fantastic.
-Breaking down the iron door is 100% the first time Rand channeled. And it is 1,000% in-character that it occurred because he was being stubborn as a mule. Tai'shar Manetheren, motherfuckers.
Like straight up super bad CGI Syfy?
What? I'm almost done with ep 3 and there is like, 0 grimdark going on here. I'm not even sure we're watching the same show. Are you and Aphostile watching the silly one off they did a few years back with the Forsaken talking to Lews Therin?
Book 1 had some fairly dark moments, because they spent a lot of it being chased by monstrous forces, and these were mostly kids plucked out of a small town village life, and:
Evil is real and palpable (and multi-faceted) in this world.
I do have a concern that there are only 5 more episodes left in the season. If they can do it though, I'd rather they not pad it. The adaptations they've done have largely resonated with me.
I do wish they'd been able to do maybe 10 episodes?
book 1
While the show isn't any darker than the books, Jordan's prose tended to gloss over the worst bits.
Episode 1/Book 1 spoilers:
If the show attempted to do the same, it'd get tossed in the YA box regardless of whatever else it had going on.
Episode 2 spoilers:
I Agree with you, but. grimdark usually applies to one of two things.
1) Crapsack worlds, where there is no good really, (40k, GoT, etc)
2) "darkened" versions of more popular genres, DCEU for instance, or some of the darker DCAU stuff.
The big difference between WoT and GoT is in your very #1 spoiler, and if it was GoT, it would linger on it. Here, in both TV and in movie, it happens, it's monstrous, and we move on right quick. Even the book 2 spoiler is a choice by someone, along with pragmatism. "I don't like that this is happening, but the alternative is FAR FAR FAR worse".
The assumption is
To expand on this a bit, early books spoilers
But Perrin's whole character arc for the first few books is that he's mopey about having cool wolf powers and being dangerous because he was raised being personally worried in his own mind about hurting his friends because he's too strong. It's hard to show that kind of mental struggle onscreen. Fridging an artificially generated wife condenses 200 pages of his internal strife into one crystalized moment.
I'm not saying I like it, I just see what they're doing.
I thought it was fine, except:
So many spoilers
Loved it
Trollocs a bit more CGI than I hoped but still good.
Lan is dope
Tam was great
Mat's parents change is fucking stupid. I LOATHE it. Just awful.
Perrins wife is like a double door, smart fridge. Again, fucking stupid.
Acting was good
village felt real, Two Rivers exists.
Kinda bummed we skipped the struggle through the forest with Rand and Tam but eh, they have to keep that mystery of who the dragon is for some stupid reason I guess.
Episode 2
The opening credits with the loom and weaving is just flat out amazing.
Ferry scene was great, weighty decisions.
Lan? Still dope
Egwene is cast SO GOOD. She is just killing it
BTW, scenery is great. This is another NZ score of finding beautiful places in the world.
Perrin thing - Still dumb. A big strong dude can have a complex about violence/his own strength without having killed his own fucking wife by accident.
Throat bats? wtf
Costume designer nailed it, deserves an emmy
What the actual fuck? Moiraine Damodred kowtowing to whitecloaks? go fuck yourself. This isn't a thing that would occur.
Mandarb is as beastly as can be hoped for.
Singing! Loved it - Would have loved the speech at the inn but pretty great way to introduce it anyway. Legit teared up.
Aridhol (HAH!) looked great, so well done
The actor they chose for Perrin is exactly what my head cannon was, he is great.
I thought it was an ok change to make Matt find the dagger
Moiraine would NEVER say "You've killed us all" to Lan. Weeeeeiiird changes.
I really liked how they did Mashadar
Nynaeve fucking boss move.
Episode 3
Nynaeve, cold ass killer. Badass.
Nynaeve is just super good so far.
Perrin thing continues to be stupid
City set piece with Matt and Rand = Great
Thom fucking Merrilin come on now. I may even overlook the patched cloak.
I don't think this is an effective way to introduce the wolf brother thing but meh, I don't have better ideas.
Rand is very Rand and I'm for it. They done a good job.
Matt serving beers is fucking hilarious
Maybe an aside but the Bartender/innkeeper lady is phenomenal actress. If this is the last we see of her, we'll be poorer for it.
Perrin thing is still stupid
Tuatha'an - they did it. These tinkers mended my pots.
hoooly shit that was an good fucking turn. 3 sentences ago I loved that lady and bam, darkfriend. So good.
Darkfriend chase scene through town with a sword is dumb.
Liked the sympathetic darkfriend monologue (fucking Thom Merilin though hah!)
Why wouldn't Liandrin even attempt to heal Moiraine? bollocks.
Overall first 3 eps:
Really enjoyed it. I'll keep watching for sure.
I don't like the Matt / Perrin origin stuff and I think they are fucking up Perrin altogether.
The whitecloaks being a "big" threat is weird
Rand, Moiraine and Lan are great, feels right. Nynaeve and Egwene are another level of great.
Locations / scenery is very good.
CGI is almost good. Good enough.
Liandrin is better cast than my head canon, amazing.
That said, show is good
I'm actually much less worried about the editing and pacing now.
Ya, and same with
Regarding Perrin:
That said, I think it would've been better had it been Master Luhan rather than creating a new character. You still get the emotional connection but avoid fridging.
However, I will say two positive things about it. First, Laila's actress had great presence for someone with so little screentime or dialogue. Second, I love that she went out kicking ass as Perrin's equal.
One great change is how he was supportive of Egwene's channeling when she started the fire. That's a welcome departure from the books—two lines of dialogue show that Perrin cares deeply for his friends.
Regarding Egwene:
Regarding Nynaeve:
I've seen complaints about the pool scene...and it's dumb. Some people attack any departure from the books on instinct, without considering if it could work. Every change they've made so far, even I disagree with them, has been to make better TV. So they move Thom's introduction to keep the Emond's Field portion from being overcrowded, condense the second act villages into a single town, and bring characters' internal struggles to the forefront.
The pool scene exists to show that Nynaeve is intelligent, brave, and skilled before she finds out about the Power. People complaining that it's "unrealistic" for a girl to solo a trolloc are straight sexist and missed the point of the entire series.
Regarding Mat:
The scene in episode 3 with the dead Aiel doesn’t work with Book 1 Mat, and it was the best scene in the episode.
Regarding Rand:
As I said earlier, the scene with the iron door was a fantastic way to adapt his early channeling. I know a lot of people, even book readers, are going to miss that detail until it’s spelled out.
Over/under we get a big montage of all his channeling when the reveal drops?
It absolutely is. A short lost of things that have been grittied up:
Giving Perrin a wife just so he can kill her
The ferry scene
Nynaeve throwing Egwene off a cliff
Removing all the funny parts
Ruining Thom's entire character. Actual Thom would have performed something exciting or humorous not depressing country blues, and acted literally nothing like he did here.
It's a matter of tone. Yes messed up shit happens. Plenty of times it even happens on screen, as it were. But most of the time the actual tone of the story is more high adventure, closer to something like The Hobbit or a shounen anime. The latter is a particularly good example I think because plenty of shounen also have really dark shit in them but it is used to punctuate the happy go lucky parts. Wheel of Time is at the end of the day optimistic. And the books are funny. I got to the aforementioned ferry scene and realized I had not laughed at anything in one and a half episodes. The show is pretty relentlessly dour, I can maybe identify one or two scenes that make any attempt at humor. Even the scenes before shit hits the fan are focused on serious interpersonal drama instead of wacky hijinks. The ferry is just what crystallized this for me:
Even in this situation, Book Lan or Moraine would have knocked that guy out and said he'll probably be fine until he wakes up, we need to go, and that would have shown an appropriate level of ruthlessness while creating the correct tone.
Re: that accent book 2 on
Talkingboutdangolthereturngitdangrmemberoathsbloodofarturhawkingyouknow
I’ll keep watching but I was pretty disappointed
100% agree regarding Egwene, Rand, and Nynaeve.
Perrin (book 1)
Mat
That Aiel scene was excellent though and I'm really looking forward to more Thom.
Great success.
I who reread the books multiple times but never did the last three and hadn't touched it since before the last three thought the episode was good but kept having "did they change this for the show or do i just not remember?" moments.
The Power should absolutely 100% be coloured though, I suppose it's possible that will happen as characters get more familiar with it but sadly I'm not convinced that will happen.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
I refuse to let myself get too attached to him since we know his actor is changing from season 2 on, but I really hope the dude replacing him keeps 2 things: his fashion sense, and the way the clothes just drape off his frame.
Exactly how I pictured him.
Mat
I think this is something they got 100% wrong and I hate it.
It won't stop me watching the show and I hope they get the rest of Mat right.
Perrin
Oops I killed my wife now I'm depressed and scared to use violence is a dumb way to get to the end goal of having Perrin be uncomfortable using his size and strength to do violence. They didn't need to do it on winternight it could have come later.
Also, he's just not gonna tell anyone he killed his wife? Even by accident? I don't think that jives with Book Perrin either.
Nynaeve & Egwene
I thought virtually all the scenes with Nynaeve and Egwene were really good and don't really have any criticism there.
One Power
It absolutely should have colour or more individual "threads".
I liked that they're not holding back on use of the power and making it more of just a thing that Aes Sedai use for whatever (e.g. heat up the bath).
Liandrin scene
Perrin (spoilers for all books)
His being very quiet about extreme emotional distress might be the most in-character thing about the show :P
Liandrin
Show spoilers
First off. THEY SAID MANETHEREN OUT LOUD. Now people actually know how to pronounce my fucking screen name finally. That whole scene was great with the song.
Also to those mentioning it. Thom DOES have the patches. They are visible as the lining of his coat when he first sits down. It’s subtle but a nice nod to it without making it look silly. Also Thom is completely different than I expected but holy shit he is awesome.
Book/show spoilers
They definitely made it a little more obvious the twist with him.
But that guy is gonna look terrifying once he changes. That smile. My god.