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[Horizon Forbidden West] Burning Shores - Out Now!

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    There's a wide, wide gulf between something like HFW's highest difficulty and, say, the highest difficulty of DOOM '16. The former is a huge fucking grind that requires very particular setups and weapons to maximize damage and minimize grind, but there's still going to be grind. The latter was fucking brutal at highest difficulty, but enemy health was left virtually untouched and if you're good you can still rip and tear through rooms full of enemies in short order, no grind at all and with a variety of setups.

    Something like the enemy aggro is what should've been adjusted per difficulty level, not HP or damage resistance. Make the easier settings put enemy aggro at sub-HZD levels, Normal at the same level, and higher difficulties crank it up to what HFW normally sits at. Do some damage adjustment, make fights allow more enemies attacking, but just fucking don't turn them into piles of HP and call it a day.

    That being said, I've played the game twice and the DLC once, so clearly I still enjoyed the game.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Played some Burning Shores tonight.

    Took out a Thunderjaw and a Slaughterspine together faster than I took out a flock of Waterwings.

    Very normal, much balanced.

    I do like that they fixed the upgrade progression, though. Much much better.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    On the ending:
    I didn't exactly catch which subroutines were missing when GAIA was reactivated - one is Hades, of course, but I'm not sure if it was APOLLO or a different one missing. She definitely had HEPHESTUS, so either that was a mistake or he'll be under control by the 3rd game.
    Ending:
    5lqfkbzl1wik.png
    It's HADES and HEPHESTUS missing.
    Clockwise from the top it's: AETHER, POSIEDON, MINERVA, the two empty spots, ELUTHIA, DEMETER, ARTEMIS, APOLLO.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    On the ending:
    I didn't exactly catch which subroutines were missing when GAIA was reactivated - one is Hades, of course, but I'm not sure if it was APOLLO or a different one missing. She definitely had HEPHESTUS, so either that was a mistake or he'll be under control by the 3rd game.
    Ending:
    5lqfkbzl1wik.png
    It's HADES and HEPHESTUS missing.
    Clockwise from the top it's: AETHER, POSIEDON, MINERVA, the two empty spots, ELUTHIA, DEMETER, ARTEMIS, APOLLO.
    Ahhh, I confused ARTEMIS and HEPHESTUS due to the animal iconography. My bad, thank you!

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The final battle of Burning Shores and the resolution thereafter is perfect, no notes.

    That's how you do a fucking final boss.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The final battle of Burning Shores and the resolution thereafter is perfect, no notes.

    That's how you do a fucking final boss.

    I only have one problem with the boss fight, and it's a narrative issue
    I get that the implication is that the Horus has been inactive for a thousand years and is likely decrepit to some degree (though given the technology implied in their creation and what they can produce autonomously, that doesn't make a ton of sense, but I can roll with it).

    But if the overheating thing was a way to have two people take one out on their own, and it's a fairly glaring flaw, how did the military might of the entire world not manage to figure that out? Anyone who even vaguely knows anything about engineering, or who has ever just drilled a hole in metal, would think of that solution and if those people could come up with developing ultra advanced AI's in a very short period of time, surely they could have created some sort of heat based weaponry to overload the cooling mechanisms in the machines and taken them down without letting the whole world burn.

    And I get that large swaths of the worlds militaries had been transitioned to the machines and that was part of the problem with fighting back. But again, two people with bows and arrows, took one down.

    Anyway, it's all stuff that I'm sure can be handwaved away, or that you're not supposed to think too hard about in the first place. It was a good fight, and I'm glad it was an actual fight and not just an extended chase scene as I feared it might be. So they won a lot of points there.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The final battle of Burning Shores and the resolution thereafter is perfect, no notes.

    That's how you do a fucking final boss.

    I only have one problem with the boss fight, and it's a narrative issue
    I get that the implication is that the Horus has been inactive for a thousand years and is likely decrepit to some degree (though given the technology implied in their creation and what they can produce autonomously, that doesn't make a ton of sense, but I can roll with it).

    But if the overheating thing was a way to have two people take one out on their own, and it's a fairly glaring flaw, how did the military might of the entire world not manage to figure that out? Anyone who even vaguely knows anything about engineering, or who has ever just drilled a hole in metal, would think of that solution and if those people could come up with developing ultra advanced AI's in a very short period of time, surely they could have created some sort of heat based weaponry to overload the cooling mechanisms in the machines and taken them down without letting the whole world burn.

    And I get that large swaths of the worlds militaries had been transitioned to the machines and that was part of the problem with fighting back. But again, two people with bows and arrows, took one down.

    Anyway, it's all stuff that I'm sure can be handwaved away, or that you're not supposed to think too hard about in the first place. It was a good fight, and I'm glad it was an actual fight and not just an extended chase scene as I feared it might be. So they won a lot of points there.
    It's already crippled. My take on it was that all the overheating and the heatsinks are the final emergency backup systems that are used when everything else isn't working. Ordinarily it'd have multiple other systems to avoid leaving itself vulnerable like that, and probably a bunch more weapons to defend itself (the EMP bombs would do a good job crippling anything that gets close enough to threaten it, and if it had used one fighting Aloy, suddenly she'd have been without the vital air support distraction).
    And also an entire army of Deathbringers and Corrupters would be surrounding it. Imagine fighting the Horus with half a dozen Deathbringers and fifty Corrupters fighting back.
    From logs, the humans had come up with strategies for taking a Horus down, but it all took too long and used more ammunition than they could afford it to. In the time it took them to take down a Horus the swarm could have built one and a half Horus's to replace it, so it was always a losing battle.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    I was kinda hoping they would do something different than the usual trope of "hit the glowing weak spot for maximum damage!"

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    If it makes you feel better, you can say that the focus is highlighting the weakspot.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    It is actually explained somewhere in the game, but I can't recall where why this is. Something something the auto repair systems aren't working correctly and it can't cool itself normally, hence why the heat sinks are an actual vulnerability.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    Don't forget that the self-replicating Horus equipment was not the ultimate top-of-the-line war machine stuff, it was simply the best self-replicating line of war machines. Heat issues were consistent with everything but, typically, they just totally overwhelm an enemy with unstoppable numbers anyway so who cares if there are overheating issues?

    The gear that was driven by humans actually seemed much superior, but it simply didn't matter because ten replacements were built for every single drone destroyed

    Ninja Snarl P on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    VoodooV wrote: »
    I was kinda hoping they would do something different than the usual trope of "hit the glowing weak spot for maximum damage!"

    I mean, it's a game where you fight with a bow and arrows. Shooting things was probably gonna figure in there somehow.

    It made video game sense, and it was a fucking rush. No notes.
    And Aloy found true wuv!

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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    It is actually explained somewhere in the game, but I can't recall where why this is. Something something the auto repair systems aren't working correctly and it can't cool itself normally, hence why the heat sinks are an actual vulnerability.

    oh I get that, but the Corrupters and Deathbringers had the exact same vulnerability so it just felt like despite the size of the Horus, they didn't actually do anything new. As soon as they mentioned the heatsink I was just...."oh, that's it? Didn't even need a focus to see it. Sure I figured that they would have us attack individual Horus parts, but I figured it would just be more along the lines of "hey Aloy, start attacking one of the legs with your new Zenith weapon and it wouldn't be a specific glowy bit, but perhaps the entire leg would be a valid hit location, just figured it would take a boatload of HP while avoiding the tentacles or I figured maybe it wouldn't be about just outright destroying the horus, maybe just destroying specific components like the automated factories or the bio conversion systems which would be a major threat on its own regardless of the horus.

    The bows and arrows didn't really do that much damage, the zenith weapon however did, which is why I was glad to see that reveal in the final trailer because if you're going to justify one person taking down a Horus, you're going to need Brick Tamland's gun from the future.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    It also shoots straight through as well, so you don't need to wait for them to be exposed.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    It is actually explained somewhere in the game, but I can't recall where why this is. Something something the auto repair systems aren't working correctly and it can't cool itself normally, hence why the heat sinks are an actual vulnerability.

    oh I get that, but the Corrupters and Deathbringers had the exact same vulnerability so it just felt like despite the size of the Horus, they didn't actually do anything new. As soon as they mentioned the heatsink I was just...."oh, that's it? Didn't even need a focus to see it. Sure I figured that they would have us attack individual Horus parts, but I figured it would just be more along the lines of "hey Aloy, start attacking one of the legs with your new Zenith weapon and it wouldn't be a specific glowy bit, but perhaps the entire leg would be a valid hit location, just figured it would take a boatload of HP while avoiding the tentacles or I figured maybe it wouldn't be about just outright destroying the horus, maybe just destroying specific components like the automated factories or the bio conversion systems which would be a major threat on its own regardless of the horus.

    The bows and arrows didn't really do that much damage, the zenith weapon however did, which is why I was glad to see that reveal in the final trailer because if you're going to justify one person taking down a Horus, you're going to need Brick Tamland's gun from the future.

    ...I completely forgot I had that gun and just did it with bows and arrows...

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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    yeah I never quite got the hang of the flechette/flak primary mode, but the rail gun was decent enough

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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    yeah I never quite got the hang of the flechette/flak primary mode, but the rail gun was decent enough

    I need to get the railgun. The flechette primary mode is handy for spraying shit and knocking smaller robots down but doesn't seem particularly powerful.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    That gun had modes?

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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    The alternate mode actually makes it useful versus lighter mechs, and can be handy for bigger mechs when you're in "run the fuck away" mode.

    I think they dropped the ball on the alt fire mode because I tried the primary without it, was unimpressed, and put it away until today!

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    It is actually explained somewhere in the game, but I can't recall where why this is. Something something the auto repair systems aren't working correctly and it can't cool itself normally, hence why the heat sinks are an actual vulnerability.

    oh I get that, but the Corrupters and Deathbringers had the exact same vulnerability so it just felt like despite the size of the Horus, they didn't actually do anything new. As soon as they mentioned the heatsink I was just...."oh, that's it? Didn't even need a focus to see it. Sure I figured that they would have us attack individual Horus parts, but I figured it would just be more along the lines of "hey Aloy, start attacking one of the legs with your new Zenith weapon and it wouldn't be a specific glowy bit, but perhaps the entire leg would be a valid hit location, just figured it would take a boatload of HP while avoiding the tentacles or I figured maybe it wouldn't be about just outright destroying the horus, maybe just destroying specific components like the automated factories or the bio conversion systems which would be a major threat on its own regardless of the horus.

    The bows and arrows didn't really do that much damage, the zenith weapon however did, which is why I was glad to see that reveal in the final trailer because if you're going to justify one person taking down a Horus, you're going to need Brick Tamland's gun from the future.

    ...I completely forgot I had that gun and just did it with bows and arrows...

    Yeah, a precision bow does as much or more damage than the rail mode on that thing. Hell, it was so obvious what to do initially that I blew the first one before the dialogue even caught up to tell me to. :lol:

    I've tried the new weapon in various ways and outside of the highly unreliable times you can get it to pass through a bot and hit multiple points (there is no consistency to it, even if you line up the same shot twice), it is just a weak shot.

    The primary mode is fine, but the work it takes to set it up to not have each hit do minimal damage, I don't think it's any more versatile than, say, a spread shot with a warrior bow or something. Waterwings are about the only enemy I can think of that it actually provides much value to, over other weapons, and it seems like they were balanced around it, which makes killing them with anything else so irritating. Seriously, use the lockon, then the primary; it does so much more damage to the Waterwings than anything else, including them without locking on, that it is clearly intentional.

    I'm not against the idea of it, but it feels a bit tacked on and doesn't fill in any gaps of need with current loadouts, so other than just a narrative thing (which it didn't even really serve anyway), I'm not sure what the overall value is. Plus, the lack of upgradability or coils drastically reduces its potential.

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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    Patch 1.24 out. hopefully this should let me get the last datapoint that was bugged. Also one Brimshine was added so you can actually fully upgrade everything now without using glitches.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/horizon/comments/13j3q2d/horizon_forbidden_west_burning_shores_patch_124/

    EDIT: Yup! glitched quest datapoint is fixed!

    VoodooV on
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited May 2023
    Patch fixed the aerial north quest, so I could finally finish that and tick Burning Shores over to 100%. Now all I have left is the NG+ stuff and Ultra Hard.

    EDIT: It's dumb that they even bother listing the notebook items in NG+ as "found" but they're still greyed out until you find them again. Why? What is the value in that? Either make them all need to be collected or not, the pointless middle ground is just irritating for people like me (which, granted, is probably not a massive amount of the playerbase) who care about it. Also I wish they kept your Machine Strike progress in NG+. I imagine it's not necessary to do it again if you don't want, but it's just another thing on the map that won't be green if you don't.

    The Dude With Herpes on
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    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    Finished off all the quests in Burning Shores, still got some collectibles and other things to go but I also kinda wanna get into new Zelda.

    It'd never happen, but I kinda feel like the last main mission in Burning Shores (not the epilogue, the last big fight and the leadup to it) would work really well in first person VR. There's no way I'd want to play most of the game that way, but without going into spoilers that last quest just feels like it would translate into something more 'Horizon' than Call of the Mountain was.

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    I'm playing through the first game on steam with a view to completing it. It's been a lot of fun so far. My only complaint so far is running out of shards and wire because I'm bad and it's ultra hard difficulty There's a few little ui things and annoyances but it's fine.

    Those friggin Longleg birds wreck my shit every time though. The flying birds are a breeze compared to those.

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    Okay I’m just after makers end and I gotta say despite not knowing everything Ted Farro is a huge fucking asshole.

    This game would be a bit more fun I think if there were less campfires or it cost more to use fast travel. It started well enough but the lack of placed loot and what seems like an absence of quests just out in the world to find kinda has me avoiding the world more and more outside of whatever’s near a mission. The rewards for the majority of quests so far have been bad.

    Resource containers and maybe a random purple mod for killing big ass machines is kinda lame especially since I have rolled nothing but fire this entire time. I’m beginning to think my game is just bugged tbh.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Trust me, your opinion of Faro will sink to new and exciting new depths as you go. 'Huge fucking asshole' is probably the most complimentary anyone's ever been towards him.

    I largely ignored fast travel in favour of just running around, there always seemed to be somewhere interesting to head towards. But yeah, the loot variety isn't massive. It's not like a looter shooter where you're regularly finding new gear to try.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    Okay I’m just after makers end and I gotta say despite not knowing everything Ted Farro is a huge fucking asshole.

    Ted Faro is one of the best and most chilling game villains of all time I think. He is utterly, completely despicable, but not because he's a mustache twirling tee-hee end the world guy. He's just completely, utterly self-centered, and yet has all the money in the world, so that self-centeredness does irreparable damage to the world around him. It's because he's a completely realistic 21st century billionaire. That's it. He is, quite literally, the villain we face in real life.

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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    Okay I’m just after makers end and I gotta say despite not knowing everything Ted Farro is a huge fucking asshole.

    This game would be a bit more fun I think if there were less campfires or it cost more to use fast travel. It started well enough but the lack of placed loot and what seems like an absence of quests just out in the world to find kinda has me avoiding the world more and more outside of whatever’s near a mission. The rewards for the majority of quests so far have been bad.

    Resource containers and maybe a random purple mod for killing big ass machines is kinda lame especially since I have rolled nothing but fire this entire time. I’m beginning to think my game is just bugged tbh.

    Loot is about raw materials more than new weapons. There are only a few tiers of weapons and armor, so don't go looking for quest rewards as such. It's just more ammunition, raw materials, and shards. You'll get mods as you go. I wouldn't focus on the loot at all, other than to upgrade equipment when you notice a particularly spicy mod. Once you have access to the purple vendor, that's about as good as it gets, other than doing the Lodge quests or Frozen Wilds.

    So again, don't focus on it. It gets out of your way, a little bit like ME2.

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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    edited December 2023
    The way to think about it is that the story and the revelations are your reward. Everything else is just giving you the tools to get there, and most of those tools you get fairly early. You get access to the top tier weapons vendors at that point Meridian, and that's virtually the end of your gear progression.

    If you finish a quest and go "this should have given me a new weapon", you aren't picking up what the game is putting down.

    Orca on
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    Mei HikariMei Hikari Registered User regular
    It's funny that when I played the game at launch, I thought "Oh they're clearly modeling Ted after Bezos"
    And then my wife played it for the first time this year and she went "So this guy is just Elon Musk, right?"

    Love to live in interesting times, etc...

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2023
    They are all the same kind of boring shitty evil. It's why you can have that conversation about Glass Onion as well. None of them are really interesting enough to be different

    Fencingsax on
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I don't think Faro was "based" off of anybody. Depending on how development progressed, they started all the way back in 2011 and I assume they had the general plot hashed out. I think it's just a prophetic coincidence.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    I don't think Faro was "based" off of anybody. Depending on how development progressed, they started all the way back in 2011 and I assume they had the general plot hashed out. I think it's just a prophetic coincidence.

    Or that they're tapping into an archetype of banal evil relevant to today.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    'Trillionaire Techbro' is all the description you need to have a 90% accurate idea of the character. It's the last ten percent where he truly distinguishes himself.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Mei Hikari wrote: »
    It's funny that when I played the game at launch, I thought "Oh they're clearly modeling Ted after Bezos"
    And then my wife played it for the first time this year and she went "So this guy is just Elon Musk, right?"

    Love to live in interesting times, etc...

    Don't forget Zuckerberg!

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    Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    Forbidden West was just announced for PC.

    I adored Zero Dawn. Going into it completely blind was really satisfying. I absolutely loved the whole two stories that unraveled as I played.

    Forbidden West has almost made me buy a PS5 several times, but I've held out. Glad to see it's finally paid off!

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    How was Forbidden West actually? I remember some crankiness with grinding or something when it came out but wasn't paying that much attention.

    2024 is stacked so idk if I'll be able to pick it up. Maybe if it's before DD2.

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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited December 2023
    Also do not fuck up the port this time. HZD is the only game I bought again after refunding it because it the performance sucked and they fixed it later.

    danx on
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    How was Forbidden West actually? I remember some crankiness with grinding or something when it came out but wasn't paying that much attention.

    2024 is stacked so idk if I'll be able to pick it up. Maybe if it's before DD2.
    Fully upgrading stuff takes some grinding.
    The frustration comes from needing quite a lot of parts, plus (on Normal or higher difficulties) needing to specifically shoot them off the enemies before you kill them, or the parts are destroyed.
    The general advice is to just knock it down to Story mode, farm the parts you need, then turn it back up to whatever you want. That brings it back down to bearable.

    (And there's no way Guerrilla haven't seen that happening, so the next game will hopefully address it in some way)

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    How was Forbidden West actually? I remember some crankiness with grinding or something when it came out but wasn't paying that much attention.

    2024 is stacked so idk if I'll be able to pick it up. Maybe if it's before DD2.

    It's great. The story isn't as good as ZD, but it's still good, and the combat is still great. It's fucking gorgeous.

    They went a little Monster Hunter-y with loot needed to upgrade weapons and armor but you can turn on a feature that will almost totally remove it.

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