If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
It’s not “blindly” though. People have been abundantly clear about this.
“Regardless who wins, vote blue.”
That word implies otherwise.
What exactly is the problem with that sentiment. I mean the expanded sentiment of “vote your preference in the primary, and then vote for whoever the candidate in the general”?
The problem is the clear implication that the candidate doesn’t have to do anything to earn your vote, and that’s an expectation that, when reinforced with this “vote blue no matter who” bullshit for years just leads to worse and worse candidates. It leads to democratic candidates catering to center-right republicans because their votes are the only ones “in play”, which just keeps pushing them further away from policies and actions that I’m okay with.
Bullshit, it’s only the implication if you ignore the primary process (which isn’t taking place this time because of incumbency). But candidates should work to earn votes, but at the same time the voting public need to realize that sometimes you go with the best option available instead of the best option you can imagine.
Biden isn’t an example of a worse and worse candidate. He’s signed some very progressive bills into law and was the first President to join striking workers on the picket line, those are steps in a good direction. If he were just the continuation of a worse and worse trend he wouldn’t.
My issue is here that people tend to be too quick to frame opposition of wide open borders as people just being racist. It's a notion that just doesn't hold up when you take a look at actual immigrants that don't want wide open borders; especially, when you look at the Mexican ones. This is why I say sometimes people need to ask why they are struggling to get the public on their side.
Sure you can make the argument that some of them are the "fuck you, got mine!" types. You could even argue that some of them are racist because what they really want if a wall gets build, is that their fellow Mexicans should still be able to pass freely without issue, but they want to keep every south of Mexico out. Even probably have some classism, that has mixes of racism, where the ones that are bigger hawks on the boarder have a higher level of wealth and possible a bigger percent of their genetics is European and they see boarder control as a way to keep the unwashed masses out.
On the other hand, you have people where they've experience living in fear of the gangs. Where they don't want the gang members to just easily hop across the boarder without issue. Ones that probably don't trust the police and are mortified that people on the left in this country, think that those gangs just won't work a deal out with our shit ass cops, where the gangs get to operate with impunity, while likely slowly infiltrating local law enforcement. In fact, some probably would find it ironic that people on the left are so convinced that racism in local law enforcement will somehow check the gangs, when what's likely to happen is that corrupt local law enforcement will just turn a blind eye when the gangs aren't killing the wrong kinds of people. Even if they think that the cops won't let the gangs do as they please in the states, the US has fucking insane gun laws and wide open borders just means the gangs can more easily get guns out of the US to terrorize their friends and family still in Mexico.
Now to flip this on the head because this is very much be done in the vein on US policy for obvious reasons, but I do wonder how people would feel. If say we had a theoretical Mexican government that came into power and was able to successfully reign in their gang and corruption problem. This government though decides that it wants an even tighter border between the US because they correctly point out that US gun culture had enabled the gangs to become heavily armed. That it was the US black market for drugs that enriched the gangs and corrupt government officials that worked with them and allowed them to not only buy guns, but gain power. That they have real reservations about letting Americans in because they saw all the assholes that supported Trumps insurrection being allowed to walk free and are worried that those individuals could cause things to backslide in favor of the gangs. After all what's to stop some wealthy MAGA asshole from bankrolling some gangs, in exchange for helping each other usurp power in their own nation before likely backstabbing one another for expedient political gangs that trade on racism. I'll remind people that it's not uncommon for these kinds of assholes to do these kinds of things, we only need to look over to the Middle East to see how Netanyahu and Hamas were willing to work out an arrangement to fuck over the more moderate Palestinian faction in Gaza, know full well that they would be at each others throats the moment Hamas had control of the Gaza strip.
I'd wager many here; especially those bemoaning US policy. likely would agree that this theoretical Mexican government wouldn't be wrong for taking such an action. That it isn't based in racism and that they do a legitimate worry of fuckery from north of the Mexican-US border. The irony being that they would be missing how they are now accepting the security concerns that some American have because in there are no white supremacist assholes involved. The left is going to always struggle with getting public support on the boarder, when their knee jerk reaction to opposition is to assume that it's just racism and that there are no legitimate reasons to oppose wide open borders. That in turn ends up pissing off a number of people that correctly point out that Mexico does have some issues, as does the US, but the cartels do certainly seem to have a fair bit of power that gangs in the US don't enjoy. So how do you either address those concerns, that are legitimate? If you don't address them, can you prove that wide open borders won't just allow those issues north of the boarder; especially, when we're talking about the side that runs with the slogan of defund the police? Finally, is that the horse you absolutely must hitch your wagon too, knowing that it might not let you go anywhere or do you opt for a less desirable horse that you can't load everything you want on it, but will at least get you to your destination?
I have my bones to pick with the current boarder bill. Honestly, given the track record of the democratic party leadership; especially, Biden and the Senate, I was actually expecting a much worse bill. Honestly, some of the stuff I have the most issues with, is stuff that sunsets within like a year IIRC. Would I like the bill to pass without that stuff, certainly, but that would require the House to not be in the thrall of the GOP. Given that the bill does actually solve some issues long term and again, some of the worse aspects are very temporary. I'm willing to accept this deal. I figure worse case scenario, if the democrats don't get a trifecta this fall, but manage to have control of one part of the government. Then they can just let the clock run out on that shit or force the GOP to have to trade more to keep that stuff going. If they do get a trifecta, they can either move to dismantle that shit quicker or just let the clock run out. If we the GOP gets a trifecta, I kind of figure if they don't immediately become dysfunctional from infighting, they'll just change the law into something worse because they already don't like this bill.
Now as for "but the party leaders should lead," the funny thing with a democracy is that's not always how things work. Yes, the party can take point and push for a policy despite public opposition. Sometimes that can get the public behind an issue and maybe the party suffers no real consequences for it, perhaps they even end up in a stronger position. Other times the public can easily decide "well fuck you too!" and not only punish the party, but they can do things that result in a change of party leadership. I'll certainly agree that democratic leadership is way too fucking timid at times when it comes to pushing policy, but I will dispute the notion that they can just completely ignore what the public wants and the public will willingly follow without complaint. As with many things, balance is key and sometimes that's knowing which fights you can afford to have and which ones you should have.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
Don't you see? Biden is courting the most coveted voters by slowly ostracizing group after group of expendable minorities and people who care about Palestinians. By doing so he'll get more centrists and right wingers! Therefore saving democracy and winning the election and getting a big cake! It's the perfect election year plan to gain votes by making people regret putting you into office in the first place.
Because how can you regret doing that when the alternative is Trump? The most left leaning candidate who does an awful lot of things that make you side eye him is objectively better than a giant evil pile of garbage, so what's the issue? You wouldn't want fascism to win would you?
Edit: I think the posts above me made this point so much more authentically.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
Don't you see? Biden is courting the most coveted voters by slowly ostracizing group after group of expendable minorities and people who care about Palestinians. By doing so he'll get more centrists and right wingers! Therefore saving democracy and winning the election and getting a big cake! It's the perfect election year plan to gain votes by making people regret putting you into office in the first place.
Because how can you regret doing that when the alternative is Trump? The most left leaning candidate who does an awful lot of things that make you side eye him is objectively better than a giant evil pile of garbage, so what's the issue? You wouldn't want fascism to win would you?
Edit: I think the posts above me made this point so much more authentically.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
Don't you see? Biden is courting the most coveted voters by slowly ostracizing group after group of expendable minorities and people who care about Palestinians. By doing so he'll get more centrists and right wingers! Therefore saving democracy and winning the election and getting a big cake! It's the perfect election year plan to gain votes by making people regret putting you into office in the first place.
Because how can you regret doing that when the alternative is Trump? The most left leaning candidate who does an awful lot of things that make you side eye him is objectively better than a giant evil pile of garbage, so what's the issue? You wouldn't want fascism to win would you?
Edit: I think the posts above me made this point so much more authentically.
Yes, this. But sincerely
Well, at least now I know you know I know and understand your argument.
The other argument is "since this election is so important (which it actually is), then why is Biden going out of his way to turn off voters who are generally considered to be reliable Democrat voters? Does he realize this one actually matters?", which I really don't have an answer for.
No I don't.
+7
Options
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like.
So Biden can’t be expected to keep his campaign promises because it’s normal and expected for politicians to lie about what they’ll do in office and I should accept that.
But Trump will somehow keep all of his promises and turn us into the bad future from Back to the Future.
Look, a big part of me genuinely believes that losing would be the kind of shock that the democrats need to reevaluate their positions and get shit together to make some actual changes, seeing their “base” abandon them. I’m not 100% sure it’s the best way to go, but part of me absolutely sees it as the best long term solution.
But holy shit, the way some people are convinced the whole world is going to end if Joe Biden doesn’t get to be president another 4 years is wild. We already saw 4 years of Trump. It sucked and apparently the democrats took the wrong lessons from it. It wasn’t, however, the end of democracy. And if you truly believe that democracy is such a fragile thing that one asshole running for office could destroy it in one election cycle, then maybe it’s not a system worth all the breathless fighting, because we’re clearly going to just spend the next 30 years on defense against this bogeyman or one of his idiot kids when he finally dies.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like.
So Biden can’t be expected to keep his campaign promises because it’s normal and expected for politicians to lie about what they’ll do in office and I should accept that.
But Trump will somehow keep all of his promises and turn us into the bad future from Back to the Future.
Look, a big part of me genuinely believes that losing would be the kind of shock that the democrats need to reevaluate their positions and get shit together to make some actual changes, seeing their “base” abandon them. I’m not 100% sure it’s the best way to go, but part of me absolutely sees it as the best long term solution.
But holy shit, the way some people are convinced the whole world is going to end if Joe Biden doesn’t get to be president another 4 years is wild. We already saw 4 years of Trump. It sucked and apparently the democrats took the wrong lessons from it. It wasn’t, however, the end of democracy. And if you truly believe that democracy is such a fragile thing that one asshole running for office could destroy it in one election cycle, then maybe it’s not a system worth all the breathless fighting, because we’re clearly going to just spend the next 30 years on defense against this bogeyman or one of his idiot kids when he finally dies.
It's not one fucking cycle. This has been a trend since Nixon. They're super god damn close. Actually ended democracy for 15 years in Wisconsin. Only got it back with long, dedicated efforts from the Democratic Party and its voters voting Democrat in election after election for years. Same in Michigan. Couple things go differently (or a couple now thrown out of the party officials are slightly less brave) in 2020 and they overturn an election.
You have to downplay the threat for your position to make moral sense.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+11
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Actually, most politicians try to keep their campaign promises. Now, whether they are successful, and to what extent is another matter.
As for Democracy not being worth fighting for despite its vulnerability? It's worth fighting for because of it's vulnerability. That's why we need to fight for it.
It’s not “blindly” though. People have been abundantly clear about this.
“Regardless who wins, vote blue.”
That word implies otherwise.
What exactly is the problem with that sentiment. I mean the expanded sentiment of “vote your preference in the primary, and then vote for whoever the candidate in the general”?
The problem is the clear implication that the candidate doesn’t have to do anything to earn your vote, and that’s an expectation that, when reinforced with this “vote blue no matter who” bullshit for years just leads to worse and worse candidates. It leads to democratic candidates catering to center-right republicans because their votes are the only ones “in play”, which just keeps pushing them further away from policies and actions that I’m okay with.
Joe Biden is the most left wing president in 50 years! The left is winning the argument!
The fucking hell he is.
The man literally keeps running to the right on issue after issue and we’re expected to believe he’s the Liberal Messiah just because he’s up against Trump. It’s ludicrous.
Yeah you have to be pretty selective on that one. His immigration policies and policies wrt Israel/Palestine are notably to the right of many prior presidents.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
He is working hard to earn those votes though! That is what you’re mad about!
I actually do agree that this is an important election that may define the fate of the US. And that for me there's one option I can take, vote for Biden.
What most people are having an issue with is why Biden doesn't seem to get that leaving people behind doesn't actually help him win the election. People like me legitimately have issues with his stance on immigration and the failed legislation. We legitimately have issues with his stance on Israel's ongoing genocide of Palestinians. His actions are making it a harder pill to swallow, and unless there's a serious turn to attract voters he's going to have an impossible time winning.
It's not going to be easy to win without the left participating, might want to make sure they do. And not by scolding, but by actually doing things they want or can at least stomach.
Well my general experience with every election after I became more circumspect about reality. Is that if it's dealing with real policy, which means even a fair number of local things, then the stakes are high because there are real consequences that happen to real people and sometimes those consequences can be rather dire for the impacted population. There really is no such thing as a low stakes election, when real police matters are being touched, even if all the candidates do mean well for the populace and no one is actively trying to fuck people over.
This of course leads to why every election is extremely important and more important than the last. The right quickly figured out that democracy can be a double edge sword and if they can sucker enough of the public to let them have the keys, they can dismantled the house of democracy from the inside unopposed. So every election always involves trying to keep the authoritarians, fascists, demagogues, charlatans and other scum of the earth out of office because there is always someone willing to run on a platform that slowly dismantles what has been built and usher new tyrants into unchecked power. There is always a group of assholes that believe some petty meaningless thing makes them superior to others and is thus makes them deserving to call all shots unopposed.
Yeah, it's fucking exhausting and probably would feel less so if school didn't sell us on on bullshit fiction and then leave us dealing with a ton of people that either don't get it or are actively sabotaging things to achieve their own ends.
Anyways, I plan to vote uncommitted in the democratic presidential primary because while we have managed to drag Biden and other democrats further left on certain issues. I'm not completely pleased with everything that has been going on. I'd say immigration and the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts are probably two biggest points of contention currently. I fully get the GOP is actually much worse on both. I don't have any delusions that it'll necessarily move Biden or other sitting democrats on those two issues or other issues where I'm mostly happy, but wouldn't mind seeing more of what I want. What I do expect it to do is to signal that they can do better and that there are votes up for grabs for candidates more to the left if they do run in the primaries and in a close primary that could be all the difference they need to win. I'm sure the media an the GOP will try to frame it as votes that won't come home this fall or will go to them, but the thing is, if I can go to a noncompetitive primary and vote uncommitted in it, I'm going to show up this fall and vote for the democrats on the ticket. If I wasn't I wouldn't be bothering with the democratic primary. If immigration was the only horse I cared about, or the primary one, and I liked republican policies, I wouldn't bother with democratic primary either. I'm sure someone in various democratic groups will clue in on the idea that non committed vote is being cast by a reliable voter, that will vote this fall, but in future primaries they absolutely should not take their voters for granted.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
He is working hard to earn those votes though! That is what you’re mad about!
I don't know if trying to pass an immigration bill that is everything the Republicans asked for is going to attract the votes of people who put you in office partially to stop Republican immigration policy, but I guess we can give it a shot.
It’s not “blindly” though. People have been abundantly clear about this.
“Regardless who wins, vote blue.”
That word implies otherwise.
What exactly is the problem with that sentiment. I mean the expanded sentiment of “vote your preference in the primary, and then vote for whoever the candidate in the general”?
The problem is the clear implication that the candidate doesn’t have to do anything to earn your vote, and that’s an expectation that, when reinforced with this “vote blue no matter who” bullshit for years just leads to worse and worse candidates. It leads to democratic candidates catering to center-right republicans because their votes are the only ones “in play”, which just keeps pushing them further away from policies and actions that I’m okay with.
Joe Biden is the most left wing president in 50 years! The left is winning the argument!
The fucking hell he is.
The man literally keeps running to the right on issue after issue and we’re expected to believe he’s the Liberal Messiah just because he’s up against Trump. It’s ludicrous.
Which of Ford, Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, and Obama are you making the case that he's to the right of?
Also, the two bolded things aren't the same, and you knooooooooooooooow it, but being disingenuous is a lot easier than reckoning with the actual assertion.
It’s not “blindly” though. People have been abundantly clear about this.
“Regardless who wins, vote blue.”
That word implies otherwise.
What exactly is the problem with that sentiment. I mean the expanded sentiment of “vote your preference in the primary, and then vote for whoever the candidate in the general”?
The problem is the clear implication that the candidate doesn’t have to do anything to earn your vote, and that’s an expectation that, when reinforced with this “vote blue no matter who” bullshit for years just leads to worse and worse candidates. It leads to democratic candidates catering to center-right republicans because their votes are the only ones “in play”, which just keeps pushing them further away from policies and actions that I’m okay with.
Joe Biden is the most left wing president in 50 years! The left is winning the argument!
The fucking hell he is.
The man literally keeps running to the right on issue after issue and we’re expected to believe he’s the Liberal Messiah just because he’s up against Trump. It’s ludicrous.
Carter was President in 76. So you’re like… maybe maybe squeak in depending on how you view Carter*. But like, do you think it was Obama, Clinton, Bush 2, Bush 1, Reagan or Trump that was more left?
Cause like; Maybe, maaaybe, Obama was more left than Biden. But do you even remember yourselves during and after Obama’s term?
"Who was more left than Biden" is a weird question to throw into the middle of a conversation about how Biden is explicitly offering the most rapidly anti immigrant GOP of our lifetimes everything they want. Or wanted until the window had been moved.
"Who was more left than Biden" is a weird question to throw into the middle of a conversation about how Biden is explicitly offering the most rapidly anti immigrant GOP of our lifetimes everything they want. Or wanted until the window had been moved.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
I actually do agree that this is an important election that may define the fate of the US. And that for me there's one option I can take, vote for Biden.
What most people are having an issue with is why Biden doesn't seem to get that leaving people behind doesn't actually help him win the election. People like me legitimately have issues with his stance on immigration and the failed legislation. We legitimately have issues with his stance on Israel's ongoing genocide of Palestinians. His actions are making it a harder pill to swallow, and unless there's a serious turn to attract voters he's going to have an impossible time winning.
It's not going to be easy to win without the left participating, might want to make sure they do. And not by scolding, but by actually doing things they want or can at least stomach.
It’s always a choice of “who to leave behind”. If every issue you have is your “no, hard line” stance then you are going to 100% be left behind first. If there are 10 policies you must have and you’re willing to blow up the coalition on any one why should you be shocked that you’re ignored? Especially when the cutoff for the policy you want is “everything”.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
He is working hard to earn those votes though! That is what you’re mad about!
I don't know if trying to pass an immigration bill that is everything the Republicans asked for is going to attract the votes of people who put you in office partially to stop Republican immigration policy, but I guess we can give it a shot.
We already have evidence presented in this thread that Bidens immigration push helped turn a Republican house seat to democratic.
"Who was more left than Biden" is a weird question to throw into the middle of a conversation about how Biden is explicitly offering the most rapidly anti immigrant GOP of our lifetimes everything they want. Or wanted until the window had been moved.
No it’s fucking not! If Biden were actually less liberal than past presidents then maybe you could say that things are getting worse. But if he isnt then you’re standing in the fucking way of progress and making things worse for all of us.
And no he fucking isn’t offering them everything they want
Yeah so the bill that Biden has endorsed, and is pushing for, and by all appearances thinks is good policy, is substantially to the right of past presidents and basically right in line with Trump policy 2016-2020.
There's absolutely no reason to pretend that the conversation around immigration policy in this country is wildly to the right of where it used to be, and part of that has been opposition getting gunshy at best and complicit at worst.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
“Listen are you going to vote or not?”
Just absurd.
Yea I do indeed think that voting against Hitler is good. And I think you should do it.
Just fucking absurd.
Like. I cannot believe, in 20 fucking 24 you just wrote a post saying that voting against Hitler would not be good.
"Who was more left than Biden" is a weird question to throw into the middle of a conversation about how Biden is explicitly offering the most rapidly anti immigrant GOP of our lifetimes everything they want. Or wanted until the window had been moved.
Okay, which previous president do you want him to be more like?
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
“Listen are you going to vote or not?”
Just absurd.
Yea I do indeed think that voting against Hitler is good. And I think you should do it.
Just fucking absurd.
Like. I cannot believe, in 20 fucking 24 you just wrote a post saying that voting against Hitler would not be good.
Goum what were the results of the 1932 German presidential election
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
“Listen are you going to vote or not?”
Just absurd.
Yea I do indeed think that voting against Hitler is good. And I think you should do it.
Just fucking absurd.
Like. I cannot believe, in 20 fucking 24 you just wrote a post saying that voting against Hitler would not be good.
Shes saying it isnt effective. Seemed pretty clear to me.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
“Listen are you going to vote or not?”
Just absurd.
Yea I do indeed think that voting against Hitler is good. And I think you should do it.
Just fucking absurd.
Like. I cannot believe, in 20 fucking 24 you just wrote a post saying that voting against Hitler would not be good.
Shes saying it isnt effective. Seemed pretty clear to me.
They’ve literally been openly musing for years about the potential strategy of making Trump Speaker of the House, then impeaching whatever democrats sit in seats 1 and 2 in order to automatically thrust him into the presidency again if they cna’t win via the ballot box.
did I miss something? Have I been asleep since 2020, when Trump, in spite of losing the election, seized power and is now running the country as a fascist autocracy?
Just wanting to make sure I didn't jump a timeline or something.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
“Listen are you going to vote or not?”
Just absurd.
Yea I do indeed think that voting against Hitler is good. And I think you should do it.
Just fucking absurd.
Like. I cannot believe, in 20 fucking 24 you just wrote a post saying that voting against Hitler would not be good.
Shes saying it isnt effective. Seemed pretty clear to me.
They’ve literally been openly musing for years about the potential strategy of making Trump Speaker of the House, then impeaching whatever democrats sit in seats 1 and 2 in order to automatically thrust him into the presidency again if they cna’t win via the ballot box.
The ability to fuck up a country is a consequence of malicious people being given power over that country. Citizens voted them in and they are doing what they said they would - burning it all down.
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
“Listen are you going to vote or not?”
Just absurd.
Yea I do indeed think that voting against Hitler is good. And I think you should do it.
Just fucking absurd.
Like. I cannot believe, in 20 fucking 24 you just wrote a post saying that voting against Hitler would not be good.
Goum what were the results of the 1932 German presidential election
Adolph Hitler won 230 seats. A firm plurality of seats in the Reichstag with 37% of the vote. This is 50% more votes than the second place party and requiring the support of only one other of three eligible parties to form a majority.
Hitler fucking won the 1932 German election you fucking goose.
Oh. You mean the presidential election?! The one that didn’t matter because the legislature co-rules? Do you know how a fucking parliament works? Are you going to be big mad that the Queen appointed Boris Johnson? Or is this because of article 48… passed in 1913?
You know why Hindenburg finally relented and “put” Hitler as the Chancellor?
Because the socialists stopped supporting presidential cabinets! And so the non-nazi collation no longer had the votes to prevent government by a firm plurality party. That is how parliaments work. The winner gets to make the government unless a majority approves of the presidential appointment.
Hitler won in 1932. And he became head of government as a result of that. You fucking goose
did I miss something? Have I been asleep since 2020, when Trump, in spite of losing the election, seized power and is now running the country as a fascist autocracy?
Just wanting to make sure I didn't jump a timeline or something.
He lost and, yet, remains a threat, because it turns out “losing an election” doesn’t actually stop authoritarians from trying to gain power.
Which is part of the absurdity of describing someone as an apocalyptic level threat, and then saying that the way you fight them is by voting against them, because maybe you at best delay their desired ascension, but you haven’t actually done anything that stops them from continuing to build and seek power.
But it lets people pretend the threat went away until either they make the news again or are valuable for threatening dissenters within the political group with as an “or else!” to toe the party line like loyal party flaks.
+3
Options
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
If you just keep saying “you fucking goose” eventually it turns into a worthwhile argument, but you gotta do it in the bathroom mirror with the lights off.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Evil never rests. There is no happy ending. You fight the good fight knowing it will never end but that while you're fighting for it things are better than they would be otherwise.
If you just keep saying “you fucking goose” eventually it turns into a worthwhile argument, but you gotta do it in the bathroom mirror with the lights off.
Look man if you’re out here saying “withhold support so Trump doesn’t come to power” and then using as your argument “socialists withholding support directly causing Hitler to come to power” as evidence of your amazing strategy. I don’t know what else to say that is going to be convincing. Cause it looks a fucking lot like you want Trump to come to power. But maybe some other people can realize the goosiness. And you deserve to be called it if you make those arguments.
Edit: look you can say “criminals gonna crime” but the answer isn’t to make crime legal. Or make crime easier. It’s to put every obstacle you can in front of authoritarians so that they have as hard a time as possible. And you cannot let up. Voting for democrats is one of those obstacles. It’s simple, it’s easy. So is telling other people to do it. For whatever argument you want to make. It’s minimal effort. But produces a real hurdle. And every hurdle matters
If you don't do #5, #1-#4 really won't have mattered at all.
It's like buying all the ingredients to make a meal, realizing you bought jasmine rice instead of brown rice, and shoving everything into the garbage because "fuck it, that's not what I wanted, now nobody's eating."
Analogies!
That’s demonstrably bullshit, though. Voting for president isn’t even remotely the most important office you could be voting for. Local school board, state senators, even city council can all have more direct impact, either because of direct local action, or by influencing the direction of the lower ranks of the party (from the inside, which is what people have repeatedly said is the only way to do it).
Except without the presidency in this election, democracy itself ends.
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
“Listen are you going to vote or not?”
Just absurd.
Yea I do indeed think that voting against Hitler is good. And I think you should do it.
Just fucking absurd.
Like. I cannot believe, in 20 fucking 24 you just wrote a post saying that voting against Hitler would not be good.
Goum what were the results of the 1932 German presidential election
Adolph Hitler won 230 seats. A firm plurality of seats in the Reichstag with 37% of the vote. This is 50% more votes than the second place party and requiring the support of only one other of three eligible parties to form a majority.
Hitler fucking won the 1932 German election you fucking goose.
Oh. You mean the presidential election?! The one that didn’t matter because the legislature co-rules? Do you know how a fucking parliament works? Are you going to be big mad that the Queen appointed Boris Johnson? Or is this because of article 48… passed in 1913?
You know why Hindenburg finally relented and “put” Hitler as the Chancellor?
Because the socialists stopped supporting presidential cabinets! And so the non-nazi collation no longer had the votes to prevent government by a firm plurality party. That is how parliaments work. The winner gets to make the government unless a majority approves of the presidential appointment.
Hitler won in 1932. And he became head of government as a result of that. You fucking goose
And the Republicans are still likely to hold onto significant power within the house and senate which they can use via the rules of the two bodies, via processes they can control should they hold both houses, to seat Trump themselves via the aforementioned process of appointing him Speaker of the House and impeaching Biden and Harris to get him to the seat. A strategy that perfectly exploits the flaws in our own system, and one that the Republicans have openly discussed doing for years now, and have absolutely zero scruples with doing should they deem it necessary to do.
In short: Yeah, I’m quite aware of the difference between the Weimar-era German Government and Present Day America’s, but American Hitler doesn’t need a 1 to 1 analogous parliamentary process to achieve the power of US Fuhrer, because we presently have perfectly cromulent exploitable processes to achieve similar ends of using the existing system’s rules to effectively overthrow democracy that “Go Vote!” can’t readily protect against.
Your argument that “Voting!” Is the thing that stops dictators and their attendant supporting power structures doesn’t hold up to history, nor to the committed dedication of fascists to achieve power regardless of the obstacles thrown in their way short of imprisonment.
And the Republicans are still likely to hold onto significant power within the house and senate which they can use via the rules of the two bodies, via processes they can control should they hold both houses, to seat Trump themselves via the aforementioned process of appointing him Speaker of the House and impeaching Biden and Harris to get him to the seat.
In order to do this they need
1) 50% of the house
And
2) 67% of the Senate
And. This may come as a shock to you. But that only happens if people do not vote for democrats. Which is literally the thing you’re saying doesn’t work is literally the solution to your problem. And your proposed solution, and your actions in convincing people to abandon democratic voting, is literally the thing that will enable it.
Posts
If that’s the case (and it’s not), then maybe Biden should be working harder to earn those votes, especially around his dismal immigration record.
Bullshit, it’s only the implication if you ignore the primary process (which isn’t taking place this time because of incumbency). But candidates should work to earn votes, but at the same time the voting public need to realize that sometimes you go with the best option available instead of the best option you can imagine.
Biden isn’t an example of a worse and worse candidate. He’s signed some very progressive bills into law and was the first President to join striking workers on the picket line, those are steps in a good direction. If he were just the continuation of a worse and worse trend he wouldn’t.
Sure you can make the argument that some of them are the "fuck you, got mine!" types. You could even argue that some of them are racist because what they really want if a wall gets build, is that their fellow Mexicans should still be able to pass freely without issue, but they want to keep every south of Mexico out. Even probably have some classism, that has mixes of racism, where the ones that are bigger hawks on the boarder have a higher level of wealth and possible a bigger percent of their genetics is European and they see boarder control as a way to keep the unwashed masses out.
On the other hand, you have people where they've experience living in fear of the gangs. Where they don't want the gang members to just easily hop across the boarder without issue. Ones that probably don't trust the police and are mortified that people on the left in this country, think that those gangs just won't work a deal out with our shit ass cops, where the gangs get to operate with impunity, while likely slowly infiltrating local law enforcement. In fact, some probably would find it ironic that people on the left are so convinced that racism in local law enforcement will somehow check the gangs, when what's likely to happen is that corrupt local law enforcement will just turn a blind eye when the gangs aren't killing the wrong kinds of people. Even if they think that the cops won't let the gangs do as they please in the states, the US has fucking insane gun laws and wide open borders just means the gangs can more easily get guns out of the US to terrorize their friends and family still in Mexico.
Now to flip this on the head because this is very much be done in the vein on US policy for obvious reasons, but I do wonder how people would feel. If say we had a theoretical Mexican government that came into power and was able to successfully reign in their gang and corruption problem. This government though decides that it wants an even tighter border between the US because they correctly point out that US gun culture had enabled the gangs to become heavily armed. That it was the US black market for drugs that enriched the gangs and corrupt government officials that worked with them and allowed them to not only buy guns, but gain power. That they have real reservations about letting Americans in because they saw all the assholes that supported Trumps insurrection being allowed to walk free and are worried that those individuals could cause things to backslide in favor of the gangs. After all what's to stop some wealthy MAGA asshole from bankrolling some gangs, in exchange for helping each other usurp power in their own nation before likely backstabbing one another for expedient political gangs that trade on racism. I'll remind people that it's not uncommon for these kinds of assholes to do these kinds of things, we only need to look over to the Middle East to see how Netanyahu and Hamas were willing to work out an arrangement to fuck over the more moderate Palestinian faction in Gaza, know full well that they would be at each others throats the moment Hamas had control of the Gaza strip.
I'd wager many here; especially those bemoaning US policy. likely would agree that this theoretical Mexican government wouldn't be wrong for taking such an action. That it isn't based in racism and that they do a legitimate worry of fuckery from north of the Mexican-US border. The irony being that they would be missing how they are now accepting the security concerns that some American have because in there are no white supremacist assholes involved. The left is going to always struggle with getting public support on the boarder, when their knee jerk reaction to opposition is to assume that it's just racism and that there are no legitimate reasons to oppose wide open borders. That in turn ends up pissing off a number of people that correctly point out that Mexico does have some issues, as does the US, but the cartels do certainly seem to have a fair bit of power that gangs in the US don't enjoy. So how do you either address those concerns, that are legitimate? If you don't address them, can you prove that wide open borders won't just allow those issues north of the boarder; especially, when we're talking about the side that runs with the slogan of defund the police? Finally, is that the horse you absolutely must hitch your wagon too, knowing that it might not let you go anywhere or do you opt for a less desirable horse that you can't load everything you want on it, but will at least get you to your destination?
I have my bones to pick with the current boarder bill. Honestly, given the track record of the democratic party leadership; especially, Biden and the Senate, I was actually expecting a much worse bill. Honestly, some of the stuff I have the most issues with, is stuff that sunsets within like a year IIRC. Would I like the bill to pass without that stuff, certainly, but that would require the House to not be in the thrall of the GOP. Given that the bill does actually solve some issues long term and again, some of the worse aspects are very temporary. I'm willing to accept this deal. I figure worse case scenario, if the democrats don't get a trifecta this fall, but manage to have control of one part of the government. Then they can just let the clock run out on that shit or force the GOP to have to trade more to keep that stuff going. If they do get a trifecta, they can either move to dismantle that shit quicker or just let the clock run out. If we the GOP gets a trifecta, I kind of figure if they don't immediately become dysfunctional from infighting, they'll just change the law into something worse because they already don't like this bill.
Now as for "but the party leaders should lead," the funny thing with a democracy is that's not always how things work. Yes, the party can take point and push for a policy despite public opposition. Sometimes that can get the public behind an issue and maybe the party suffers no real consequences for it, perhaps they even end up in a stronger position. Other times the public can easily decide "well fuck you too!" and not only punish the party, but they can do things that result in a change of party leadership. I'll certainly agree that democratic leadership is way too fucking timid at times when it comes to pushing policy, but I will dispute the notion that they can just completely ignore what the public wants and the public will willingly follow without complaint. As with many things, balance is key and sometimes that's knowing which fights you can afford to have and which ones you should have.
It absolutely is. He's vowed to be a dictator. Going to create a military force to deport anyone he doesn't like. He's going to warp the Justice Department to dismiss the crimes he committed (including staging a god damn coup) and indict Biden on spurious grounds. He doesn't believe in elections and has his entire party behind him. If he wins, they'll control all three branches of government with no checks.
And it's not about you and it's not about Biden, it's about what's best for millions. And there's only two choices. Biden is obviously better.
Don't you see? Biden is courting the most coveted voters by slowly ostracizing group after group of expendable minorities and people who care about Palestinians. By doing so he'll get more centrists and right wingers! Therefore saving democracy and winning the election and getting a big cake! It's the perfect election year plan to gain votes by making people regret putting you into office in the first place.
Because how can you regret doing that when the alternative is Trump? The most left leaning candidate who does an awful lot of things that make you side eye him is objectively better than a giant evil pile of garbage, so what's the issue? You wouldn't want fascism to win would you?
Edit: I think the posts above me made this point so much more authentically.
Yes, this. But sincerely
Well, at least now I know you know I know and understand your argument.
The other argument is "since this election is so important (which it actually is), then why is Biden going out of his way to turn off voters who are generally considered to be reliable Democrat voters? Does he realize this one actually matters?", which I really don't have an answer for.
So Biden can’t be expected to keep his campaign promises because it’s normal and expected for politicians to lie about what they’ll do in office and I should accept that.
But Trump will somehow keep all of his promises and turn us into the bad future from Back to the Future.
Look, a big part of me genuinely believes that losing would be the kind of shock that the democrats need to reevaluate their positions and get shit together to make some actual changes, seeing their “base” abandon them. I’m not 100% sure it’s the best way to go, but part of me absolutely sees it as the best long term solution.
But holy shit, the way some people are convinced the whole world is going to end if Joe Biden doesn’t get to be president another 4 years is wild. We already saw 4 years of Trump. It sucked and apparently the democrats took the wrong lessons from it. It wasn’t, however, the end of democracy. And if you truly believe that democracy is such a fragile thing that one asshole running for office could destroy it in one election cycle, then maybe it’s not a system worth all the breathless fighting, because we’re clearly going to just spend the next 30 years on defense against this bogeyman or one of his idiot kids when he finally dies.
It's not one fucking cycle. This has been a trend since Nixon. They're super god damn close. Actually ended democracy for 15 years in Wisconsin. Only got it back with long, dedicated efforts from the Democratic Party and its voters voting Democrat in election after election for years. Same in Michigan. Couple things go differently (or a couple now thrown out of the party officials are slightly less brave) in 2020 and they overturn an election.
You have to downplay the threat for your position to make moral sense.
As for Democracy not being worth fighting for despite its vulnerability? It's worth fighting for because of it's vulnerability. That's why we need to fight for it.
The fucking hell he is.
The man literally keeps running to the right on issue after issue and we’re expected to believe he’s the Liberal Messiah just because he’s up against Trump. It’s ludicrous.
He is working hard to earn those votes though! That is what you’re mad about!
What most people are having an issue with is why Biden doesn't seem to get that leaving people behind doesn't actually help him win the election. People like me legitimately have issues with his stance on immigration and the failed legislation. We legitimately have issues with his stance on Israel's ongoing genocide of Palestinians. His actions are making it a harder pill to swallow, and unless there's a serious turn to attract voters he's going to have an impossible time winning.
It's not going to be easy to win without the left participating, might want to make sure they do. And not by scolding, but by actually doing things they want or can at least stomach.
This of course leads to why every election is extremely important and more important than the last. The right quickly figured out that democracy can be a double edge sword and if they can sucker enough of the public to let them have the keys, they can dismantled the house of democracy from the inside unopposed. So every election always involves trying to keep the authoritarians, fascists, demagogues, charlatans and other scum of the earth out of office because there is always someone willing to run on a platform that slowly dismantles what has been built and usher new tyrants into unchecked power. There is always a group of assholes that believe some petty meaningless thing makes them superior to others and is thus makes them deserving to call all shots unopposed.
Yeah, it's fucking exhausting and probably would feel less so if school didn't sell us on on bullshit fiction and then leave us dealing with a ton of people that either don't get it or are actively sabotaging things to achieve their own ends.
Anyways, I plan to vote uncommitted in the democratic presidential primary because while we have managed to drag Biden and other democrats further left on certain issues. I'm not completely pleased with everything that has been going on. I'd say immigration and the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts are probably two biggest points of contention currently. I fully get the GOP is actually much worse on both. I don't have any delusions that it'll necessarily move Biden or other sitting democrats on those two issues or other issues where I'm mostly happy, but wouldn't mind seeing more of what I want. What I do expect it to do is to signal that they can do better and that there are votes up for grabs for candidates more to the left if they do run in the primaries and in a close primary that could be all the difference they need to win. I'm sure the media an the GOP will try to frame it as votes that won't come home this fall or will go to them, but the thing is, if I can go to a noncompetitive primary and vote uncommitted in it, I'm going to show up this fall and vote for the democrats on the ticket. If I wasn't I wouldn't be bothering with the democratic primary. If immigration was the only horse I cared about, or the primary one, and I liked republican policies, I wouldn't bother with democratic primary either. I'm sure someone in various democratic groups will clue in on the idea that non committed vote is being cast by a reliable voter, that will vote this fall, but in future primaries they absolutely should not take their voters for granted.
I don't know if trying to pass an immigration bill that is everything the Republicans asked for is going to attract the votes of people who put you in office partially to stop Republican immigration policy, but I guess we can give it a shot.
Which of Ford, Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, and Obama are you making the case that he's to the right of?
Also, the two bolded things aren't the same, and you knooooooooooooooow it, but being disingenuous is a lot easier than reckoning with the actual assertion.
<snazzy tap-dancing!>
Carter was President in 76. So you’re like… maybe maybe squeak in depending on how you view Carter*. But like, do you think it was Obama, Clinton, Bush 2, Bush 1, Reagan or Trump that was more left?
Cause like; Maybe, maaaybe, Obama was more left than Biden. But do you even remember yourselves during and after Obama’s term?
He isn't.
The absurdity of the time traveler who pops up back in Germany in the years before 1933, desperately telling people that to save the future they gotta vote
“Don’t you understand? All of democracy is at stake! If he attains power, everything is lost! Political freedom will be extinguished, the world will be plunged into a new world war and millions will be imprisoned and exterminated in the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind!”
“Oh fuck! It sounds like we need to rise up and stop this Hitler guy from ever attaining power! How do we stop this monster?!”
“By Voting!”
“By… what? You just described a man capable of remaking history as we know it, and your solution from keeping him from attaining power is to just… vote?”
“What, you expect something else?”
“I mean… the way you described it, the whole imperial war machine, the mass execution of millions of innocent lives, like, I expected we had to like… fight this guy? Like, in some kind of way that keeps him from ever attaining power?”
“What no that would be too disruptive! You gotta believe in the system!”
“What the system he’s going to overthrow?”
“Well I mean he didn’t really overthrow it. It kind of gave him the power to do all that, like, willingly.”
“I’m… sorry. What? He didn’t just use martial power to seize control of the country, he just got awarded it?”
“Well you see Hindenburg will think he can control the Nazis by appointing Hitler Chancellor…”
“Wait Hindenburg, one of the guys running against Hitler for the Presidency?”
“Well yeah”
“You solution to stopping the apocalypse of our age is to vote against Hitler, but one of our three main choices is the guy you say if we vote for him just gives him power anyway? And you don’t want us doing anything more than voting to stop Hitler’s rise to power?”
“Well… you can’t be violent… that’d be bad.”
“You literally just described an alternative scenario where Hitler wages war against the entire world and murders millions of innocents he imprisoned in, I quote, ‘the largest industrialized death engine yet produced by mankind’. And your answer to that is voting.”
“Listen are you going to vote or not?”
Just absurd.
It’s always a choice of “who to leave behind”. If every issue you have is your “no, hard line” stance then you are going to 100% be left behind first. If there are 10 policies you must have and you’re willing to blow up the coalition on any one why should you be shocked that you’re ignored? Especially when the cutoff for the policy you want is “everything”.
You’re unable to be pleased.
We already have evidence presented in this thread that Bidens immigration push helped turn a Republican house seat to democratic.
So…
No it’s fucking not! If Biden were actually less liberal than past presidents then maybe you could say that things are getting worse. But if he isnt then you’re standing in the fucking way of progress and making things worse for all of us.
And no he fucking isn’t offering them everything they want
There's absolutely no reason to pretend that the conversation around immigration policy in this country is wildly to the right of where it used to be, and part of that has been opposition getting gunshy at best and complicit at worst.
Yea I do indeed think that voting against Hitler is good. And I think you should do it.
Just fucking absurd.
Like. I cannot believe, in 20 fucking 24 you just wrote a post saying that voting against Hitler would not be good.
Okay, which previous president do you want him to be more like?
Goum what were the results of the 1932 German presidential election
Shes saying it isnt effective. Seemed pretty clear to me.
They’ve literally been openly musing for years about the potential strategy of making Trump Speaker of the House, then impeaching whatever democrats sit in seats 1 and 2 in order to automatically thrust him into the presidency again if they cna’t win via the ballot box.
did I miss something? Have I been asleep since 2020, when Trump, in spite of losing the election, seized power and is now running the country as a fascist autocracy?
Just wanting to make sure I didn't jump a timeline or something.
The ability to fuck up a country is a consequence of malicious people being given power over that country. Citizens voted them in and they are doing what they said they would - burning it all down.
Adolph Hitler won 230 seats. A firm plurality of seats in the Reichstag with 37% of the vote. This is 50% more votes than the second place party and requiring the support of only one other of three eligible parties to form a majority.
Hitler fucking won the 1932 German election you fucking goose.
Oh. You mean the presidential election?! The one that didn’t matter because the legislature co-rules? Do you know how a fucking parliament works? Are you going to be big mad that the Queen appointed Boris Johnson? Or is this because of article 48… passed in 1913?
You know why Hindenburg finally relented and “put” Hitler as the Chancellor?
Because the socialists stopped supporting presidential cabinets! And so the non-nazi collation no longer had the votes to prevent government by a firm plurality party. That is how parliaments work. The winner gets to make the government unless a majority approves of the presidential appointment.
Hitler won in 1932. And he became head of government as a result of that. You fucking goose
He lost and, yet, remains a threat, because it turns out “losing an election” doesn’t actually stop authoritarians from trying to gain power.
Which is part of the absurdity of describing someone as an apocalyptic level threat, and then saying that the way you fight them is by voting against them, because maybe you at best delay their desired ascension, but you haven’t actually done anything that stops them from continuing to build and seek power.
But it lets people pretend the threat went away until either they make the news again or are valuable for threatening dissenters within the political group with as an “or else!” to toe the party line like loyal party flaks.
Look man if you’re out here saying “withhold support so Trump doesn’t come to power” and then using as your argument “socialists withholding support directly causing Hitler to come to power” as evidence of your amazing strategy. I don’t know what else to say that is going to be convincing. Cause it looks a fucking lot like you want Trump to come to power. But maybe some other people can realize the goosiness. And you deserve to be called it if you make those arguments.
Edit: look you can say “criminals gonna crime” but the answer isn’t to make crime legal. Or make crime easier. It’s to put every obstacle you can in front of authoritarians so that they have as hard a time as possible. And you cannot let up. Voting for democrats is one of those obstacles. It’s simple, it’s easy. So is telling other people to do it. For whatever argument you want to make. It’s minimal effort. But produces a real hurdle. And every hurdle matters
And the Republicans are still likely to hold onto significant power within the house and senate which they can use via the rules of the two bodies, via processes they can control should they hold both houses, to seat Trump themselves via the aforementioned process of appointing him Speaker of the House and impeaching Biden and Harris to get him to the seat. A strategy that perfectly exploits the flaws in our own system, and one that the Republicans have openly discussed doing for years now, and have absolutely zero scruples with doing should they deem it necessary to do.
In short: Yeah, I’m quite aware of the difference between the Weimar-era German Government and Present Day America’s, but American Hitler doesn’t need a 1 to 1 analogous parliamentary process to achieve the power of US Fuhrer, because we presently have perfectly cromulent exploitable processes to achieve similar ends of using the existing system’s rules to effectively overthrow democracy that “Go Vote!” can’t readily protect against.
Your argument that “Voting!” Is the thing that stops dictators and their attendant supporting power structures doesn’t hold up to history, nor to the committed dedication of fascists to achieve power regardless of the obstacles thrown in their way short of imprisonment.
Biden could try to not piss off people who voted for him last time and actually attract voters instead of shedding them like it's his job.
In order to do this they need
1) 50% of the house
And
2) 67% of the Senate
And. This may come as a shock to you. But that only happens if people do not vote for democrats. Which is literally the thing you’re saying doesn’t work is literally the solution to your problem. And your proposed solution, and your actions in convincing people to abandon democratic voting, is literally the thing that will enable it.
Okay go convince him of that.