I clearly don't lurk enough because I always had Bacon down as a nice guy, not an arrogant cunt
[tiny]That's a lie THE PEOPLE WHO NEVER COME BACK TO THE AC ARE IN FACT EATEN ALIVE[/tiny]
Anyway that's a damn fine post and if you swapped a few words for others it'd be perfect for any creative field you could care to name, and a lot of TWB posters* could do to learn from it.
I don't care if you've had a short story published. Whoop you. Doesn't mean you're excused from explaining your advice like us lowly keyboard jockeys.
*But guys don't last that long because Orikae eats them. Cannabilism towards bastards is obviously a genetic propensity in mods.
Luckily no breaks. Just a pretty severe sprain. I guess some kids got fractured pelvises on the same cross walk I was on.
Yikes, I missed that My uncle had a nasty run in with a van the other month (again, no break, just a sprain) but I'm told it's not exactly pleasant and in some cases just as painful as a break. Except in cases of the neck, I guess. Either way, hope it heals up good and proper.
lol you didn't think i was being seriouse do you? I was speaking in general terms in a jokingly somber act in saying how recieving crits can be tough but in end the help motivate and spur improvment.. Hell I appreciate every crit I can get being that I'm not in art school.
Its hard to get that meaning from a paragraph when it takes you a small paragraph to explain what you meant.
Casual internet talk isn't good for conveying meanings.
In other news, shortly after my last post, I got hit by a car, and I spent the past 3 hours in the emergency room!
Mykonos how could you it was just a misunderstanding!
I've only ever very lightly sprained an ankle once and that was my own damn fault. Pro tip: coordinate with the person cycling next to you about which way your going before you find yourself turning right while they're heading straight ahead (and you're cycling on the outside).
Yikes, I missed that My uncle had a nasty run in with a van the other month (again, no break, just a sprain) but I'm told it's not exactly pleasant and in some cases just as painful as a break. Except in cases of the neck, I guess. Either way, hope it heals up good and proper.
yeah tam you can play with me
and some other ac folks sometimes are in there too, orik is a mod, and bombs, firman and cheerfulbear used to play but they're all wankers
prosp plays sometimes too.
So a plane's black box is actually orange and the Orange Box is actually black. Curious.
You should totally get in on some PA server Team Fortress 2 action Tam!
Um, I am very very bad at most popular games. If I play multiplayer games, it's usually with friends who don't rail on me too hard for being really bad. :oops: But I might try anyway.
yeah tam you can play with me
and some other ac folks sometimes are in there too, orik is a mod, and bombs, firman and cheerfulbear used to play but they're all wankers
prosp plays sometimes too.
So what were we talking about? That's right, I wasn't talking about anything. I was standing over there holding my dick for the last 30 months. But you guys were talking about art.
Ok, here goes!
Here's the thing about the givers and receivers of crits. The receivers want to believe they don't suck (and are usually wrong). The givers want to believe they are right (and usually are). Receivers, if undisciplined, take umbrage at the words of the givers, while givers become indignant if their words are dismissed.
It is a peculiar relationship, and often dysfunctional.
Being a receiver of a crit entails resisting the truth about your work, even if the objection is voiced only in your head. Being a giver entails parading yourself around as if you're the authority on what is right and wrong about a work of art, and treating with contempt those too foolish to heed your advice. Being a receiver is about being stubborn. Being a giver is about being pompous.
If a giver's observations are questioned, the giver is slighted and may storm off in a huff. If the receiver is too stubborn, his reaction may be the same. However, the only one who has anything to gain from the relationship is the receiver, in improving his art. The giver will derive no benefit from being challenged, for he does not seek to sharpen his critiquing skills. Hence, the only advancement in the relationship arises from the receiver swallowing his natural inclinations, even if the giver is full of shit.
It is a lopsided arrangement, but that's the way it is!
Talking about art is fun! Let's talk about it some more, ok?
NNgh. There's problems with that essay. Mainly that is assumes that the person looking for crits is actually not looking for crits and just asspats. And that also assumes that the person offering crits is a total jackoff who wants to hurt someone's feelings, and not wanting to offer help. I've been on every side of that clump of examples.
So what were we talking about? That's right, I wasn't talking about anything. I was standing over there holding my dick for the last 30 months. But you guys were talking about art.
Ok, here goes!
Here's the thing about the givers and receivers of crits. The receivers want to believe they don't suck (and are usually wrong). The givers want to believe they are right (and usually are). Receivers, if undisciplined, take umbrage at the words of the givers, while givers become indignant if their words are dismissed.
It is a peculiar relationship, and often dysfunctional.
Being a receiver of a crit entails resisting the truth about your work, even if the objection is voiced only in your head. Being a giver entails parading yourself around as if you're the authority on what is right and wrong about a work of art, and treating with contempt those too foolish to heed your advice. Being a receiver is about being stubborn. Being a giver is about being pompous.
If a giver's observations are questioned, the giver is slighted and may storm off in a huff. If the receiver is too stubborn, his reaction may be the same. However, the only one who has anything to gain from the relationship is the receiver, in improving his art. The giver will derive no benefit from being challenged, for he does not seek to sharpen his critiquing skills. Hence, the only advancement in the relationship arises from the receiver swallowing his natural inclinations, even if the giver is full of shit.
It is a lopsided arrangement, but that's the way it is!
Talking about art is fun! Let's talk about it some more, ok?
Dare: Illustrate this using diagrams of penises and vaginas.
Hi Multimoog, thank you for the rapid follow-up on this discussion.
My statements were fraught with perilous generalizations, to be sure! I was merely establishing a broad architecture for the topic, upon which further analysis might provide illumination. Just as your keen points have!
It is true many receivers of crits engage the process with more humility. These are what we will call successful receivers. It is similarly true that those who give crits offer advice with greater detachment. While this might make for a more civilized exchange, I might argue that it also makes for a less successful crit-giver!
To NeoRedXIII: I found your off-topic remark hilarious!!!
S_O on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2008
But the person giving the crit has something at stake in that they want people to crit their own work, and being an established member of a community is the best way to get the best critiques out of a community.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
munkus beaver, i don't like the way that you put a beaver in your name
my blind cousin would pick a more attractive animal. yeeeesh
beavotron on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2008
Are you the Ben Reily to my Peter Parker?
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Cheers, Munkus Beaver, on an intellectually robust rebuttal!
"in that they want people to crit their own work"
Do they? All of them? Do you?
"being an established member of a community is the best way to get the best critiques out of a community"
Is it??
Addressed to Beavotron: A superb criticism of Munkus Beaver!
Poll:
S_O should:
1. Continue sounding like an insufferable asshole
2. Go back to sounding like a regular asshole
3. Go back to his own internet
4. Draw the penis diagram everyone is fiending after
S_O on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2008
But S_O, I don't offer crits of people's work.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I see, Munkus Beaver. In that case, I am having difficulty understanding how you, as one who neither seeks or offers criticism, have come to be an authority on "the best way to get the best critiques out of a community"!
S_O on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2008
Isn't that the same argument as "You can't critique my art, because you have posted no art"?
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Munkus Beaver, it appears that you are easily flummoxed in the arenas of reading comprehension and logic!
If you inspect my post closely, you will see I have called into question your credentials for assessing "the best way to get the best critiques out of a community". This is not the same as questioning your credentials in giving critiques. It would be silly for me to question those credentials, since you yourself said you never offer critiques anyway!
But while we're on the subject, why wouldn't one's lack of artistic ability limit his critical credibility?
I tend to crit someone's work if I actually like where it's going and feel that a few tips could make it better. That's why I don't say much about the life drawings and photorealistic stuff. I find it boring, and there's a lot of people here who can cover that. I also only rip someone's work apart if they're being dicks in the first place. Like that 'tell me you hate my webcomic' guy.
I don't put much of my own stuff up here for crits because I don't really think a lot of it warrants the whole critiquing process. I'll put something up if I have questions or am stumped on how to do something, but for the most part there's not a lot people could say that I don't already know or would be beneficial. This makes me sound egotistical, but most of the professional stuff I do are simple, cartoony things.
Posts
[tiny]That's a lie THE PEOPLE WHO NEVER COME BACK TO THE AC ARE IN FACT EATEN ALIVE[/tiny]
Anyway that's a damn fine post and if you swapped a few words for others it'd be perfect for any creative field you could care to name, and a lot of TWB posters* could do to learn from it.
I don't care if you've had a short story published. Whoop you. Doesn't mean you're excused from explaining your advice like us lowly keyboard jockeys.
*But guys don't last that long because Orikae eats them. Cannabilism towards bastards is obviously a genetic propensity in mods.
Yikes, I missed that
Alternative Comedy Response:
Mykonos how could you it was just a misunderstanding!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYzGs-COVdE
It actually feels pretty good today. I dunno.
Yeah, it's the same guy who did "Nasty Foot Gal." The live video is for Shoot Goose.
You should totally get in on some PA server Team Fortress 2 action Tam!
and some other ac folks sometimes are in there too, orik is a mod, and bombs, firman and cheerfulbear used to play but they're all wankers
prosp plays sometimes too.
Um, I am very very bad at most popular games. If I play multiplayer games, it's usually with friends who don't rail on me too hard for being really bad. :oops: But I might try anyway.
the BONESAW!
I've been having a lot of fun playin' me some TF2 lately. I'm very much enjoying sniping people.
My Portfolio Site
That was my first post here I think in over two years.
you're joking right?
get back to your part of the internet!
Thanks for the warm welcome guys!
So what were we talking about? That's right, I wasn't talking about anything. I was standing over there holding my dick for the last 30 months. But you guys were talking about art.
Ok, here goes!
Here's the thing about the givers and receivers of crits. The receivers want to believe they don't suck (and are usually wrong). The givers want to believe they are right (and usually are). Receivers, if undisciplined, take umbrage at the words of the givers, while givers become indignant if their words are dismissed.
It is a peculiar relationship, and often dysfunctional.
Being a receiver of a crit entails resisting the truth about your work, even if the objection is voiced only in your head. Being a giver entails parading yourself around as if you're the authority on what is right and wrong about a work of art, and treating with contempt those too foolish to heed your advice. Being a receiver is about being stubborn. Being a giver is about being pompous.
If a giver's observations are questioned, the giver is slighted and may storm off in a huff. If the receiver is too stubborn, his reaction may be the same. However, the only one who has anything to gain from the relationship is the receiver, in improving his art. The giver will derive no benefit from being challenged, for he does not seek to sharpen his critiquing skills. Hence, the only advancement in the relationship arises from the receiver swallowing his natural inclinations, even if the giver is full of shit.
It is a lopsided arrangement, but that's the way it is!
Talking about art is fun! Let's talk about it some more, ok?
Dare: Illustrate this using diagrams of penises and vaginas.
Flickr | Facebook | Classifieds | GigPosters | Twitter | Blog
making it a double dare
My statements were fraught with perilous generalizations, to be sure! I was merely establishing a broad architecture for the topic, upon which further analysis might provide illumination. Just as your keen points have!
It is true many receivers of crits engage the process with more humility. These are what we will call successful receivers. It is similarly true that those who give crits offer advice with greater detachment. While this might make for a more civilized exchange, I might argue that it also makes for a less successful crit-giver!
To NeoRedXIII: I found your off-topic remark hilarious!!!
my blind cousin would pick a more attractive animal. yeeeesh
"in that they want people to crit their own work"
Do they? All of them? Do you?
"being an established member of a community is the best way to get the best critiques out of a community"
Is it??
Addressed to Beavotron: A superb criticism of Munkus Beaver!
S_O should:
1. Continue sounding like an insufferable asshole
2. Go back to sounding like a regular asshole
3. Go back to his own internet
4. Draw the penis diagram everyone is fiending after
If you inspect my post closely, you will see I have called into question your credentials for assessing "the best way to get the best critiques out of a community". This is not the same as questioning your credentials in giving critiques. It would be silly for me to question those credentials, since you yourself said you never offer critiques anyway!
But while we're on the subject, why wouldn't one's lack of artistic ability limit his critical credibility?
Your mom's a successful receiver.
I tend to crit someone's work if I actually like where it's going and feel that a few tips could make it better. That's why I don't say much about the life drawings and photorealistic stuff. I find it boring, and there's a lot of people here who can cover that. I also only rip someone's work apart if they're being dicks in the first place. Like that 'tell me you hate my webcomic' guy.
I don't put much of my own stuff up here for crits because I don't really think a lot of it warrants the whole critiquing process. I'll put something up if I have questions or am stumped on how to do something, but for the most part there's not a lot people could say that I don't already know or would be beneficial. This makes me sound egotistical, but most of the professional stuff I do are simple, cartoony things.