I think the only "saving grace" of the show is that the vast majority of people they "catch" are guys who, when the chips are down and they're being questioned by lawyers (not the TV show) admit that they have a problem or did something illegal. The entertainment aspect is very sketch, and it's obvious that shows like this serve to dehumanize the potential pedophiles rather than actually address the problem.
My bigger concern is that shows like this make accusation of pedophelia very, very sticky. This was mentioned a few pages ago, but what's stopping a small town from labeling a soccer coach, or a new guy who doesn't visit the local church, or anyone that someone dislikes, as a pedophile? And what's worse, it's already been established in this thread that there are people who would be perfectly happy setting up a lynch mob to kill these people based entirely on speculation.
I mean, pedophelia is bad, wrong, all that, but to me shows like this don't seem all that different from "To Catch a Black Man" back in the turn of the century South. "We've set up a telegram chat with John Freeman, who was seen conversing with a white woman. We suspect he wishes to know her carnally," and it ends with a tree and a noose. Now, pedophelia is actually illegal, but it should be handled in a court of law, and investigated by law enforcement -- not network television. And once it's broadcast, how the hell do you get a fair trial? And if you play a part of creating a dramatic increase in sensitivity to the crime, making people jump at shadows and making it difficult for anyone who isn't actually a pedophile to get a fair shake at justice, how is that good?
The few times I've seen the show, it's usually obvious that there's an undertone that the criminal would have had sex with a child had there been a child at the residence. It does make you wonder, though, if they sit in chat rooms and get pissed off when someone doesn't take the bait.
I think the only "saving grace" of the show is that the vast majority of people they "catch" are guys who, when the chips are down and they're being questioned by lawyers (not the TV show) admit that they have a problem or did something illegal. The entertainment aspect is very sketch, and it's obvious that shows like this serve to dehumanize the potential pedophiles rather than actually address the problem.
My bigger concern is that shows like this make accusation of pedophelia very, very sticky. This was mentioned a few pages ago, but what's stopping a small town from labeling a soccer coach, or a new guy who doesn't visit the local church, or anyone that someone dislikes, as a pedophile? And what's worse, it's already been established in this thread that there are people who would be perfectly happy setting up a lynch mob to kill these people based entirely on speculation.
This. "Awareness" of Pedophilia has been increased to a level where even the accusation can destroy peoples lifes. To those who advocate brutal punishments to pedophiles, do you, honestly, think "innocent until proven guilty" when someone would be brought before you, charged with pedophilia?
The absurd thing with these charges is that even if you manage to successfully defend yourself, there will always be this "yeah, well, he was charged with child molestion, but nothing could be proven", thing around.
My bigger concern is that shows like this make accusation of pedophelia very, very sticky. This was mentioned a few pages ago, but what's stopping a small town from labeling a soccer coach, or a new guy who doesn't visit the local church, or anyone that someone dislikes, as a pedophile? And what's worse, it's already been established in this thread that there are people who would be perfectly happy setting up a lynch mob to kill these people based entirely on speculation.
This is why the "Church" of Scientology loves to accuse critics of being child molesters. Slander and libel laws being toothless and unenforceable in this country, there is nothing stopping an unscrupulous person or group from labeling someone a pedophile. Unless the person is wealthy enough to pay for all the court proceedings for long enough to win a civil suit (ie: Don't accuse Tom Cruise of being gay) there's nothing they can do.
It does make you wonder, though, if they sit in chat rooms and get pissed off when someone doesn't take the bait.
Makes me wonder that, and also wonder if when the pedos don't take the bait, do they get pissed off and then start going all over the top sexy with "Oh please come over, please please I'm so horny and naked and wet just thinking about you please please oh my parents aren't at home please please" until the guy finally gives in. Basically, a Charlie the Unicorn situation.
The point is if they're old enough to be held accountable for their actions when they kill someone, they should be old enough to make informed decisions about sleeping with people. Statutory rape is a crime on the pretense that the victim is not capable of making the choice of sleeping with an adult.
Oh, well I would be feel dumber if his point wasn't so stupid.
The government kills kids, so it should be okay for adults to fuck them?
It makes so much sense that it's how it works in most countries, actually.
The most usual way to regulate statutory rape is claiming it's a matter of consent. If the person is mature enough to give consent, it's no rape. That's a very popular way to think about underage consent, and it's used in everything from managing their own money to considering them criminally responsible and consenting to medical treatments and sex.
In fact, in most places it tends to go the other way, you accept that maybe a 16 years old person can consent to sex (which is commonly known as opening your eyes and looking at how things really work), but it's pressumed that when it comes to commiting a crime nobody under 18 is fully responsible.
Of course, in most places killing people is also considered a barbaric from of punishment, so this compared law approach might not really apply.
I'm surprised Chris Hansen wasn't fired along with other network executives. Fuck him and the self-righteous fucks at Perverted Justice.
Yeah! who do those assholes think they are! trying to stop child rapists! HOW DARE THEY. Grown men should be able to fuck little boys..i mean look at history, men in Greece and Rome fucked boys. There's no reason men today shouldn't be able to!
NAMBLA FOR LIFE
in case you couldn't tell thats sarcasm, and you're a fucking idiot.
NakedZergling on
0
Options
KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
edited June 2008
I didn't know it was self-righteous to not want pedophiles to prey on kids on the internet.
I didn't know it was self-righteous to not want pedophiles to prey on kids on the internet.
Yes, because this is the best way to go about discouraging that. Certainly not any negative externalities from this kind of shit. I mean, why would you complain about the government listening to all of your phone calls, or videotaping your every move? What, you want terrorists to be able to attack us with impunity?
And hey, really, what better way to make sex offenders not want to fall off the radar than by beating them with baseball bats.
Really, the bitch should get hit with attempted murder, and go to prison for a very long time. What will actually end up happening? I'll be surprised if she gets probation. And then, of course, that story gets spread around, which will just reinforce the idea that once you're on the sex offender registry, your life is basically over. Since the consequences of working with the system are just as bad (if not worse) than the consequences of avoiding the system, of course, that's going to make things so very much better.
I didn't know it was self-righteous to not want pedophiles to prey on kids on the internet.
Yes, because this is the best way to go about discouraging that. Certainly not any negative externalities from this kind of shit. I mean, why would you complain about the government listening to all of your phone calls, or videotaping your every move? What, you want terrorists to be able to attack us with impunity?
And hey, really, what better way to make sex offenders not want to fall off the radar than by beating them with baseball bats.
Really, the bitch should get hit with attempted murder, and go to prison for a very long time. What will actually end up happening? I'll be surprised if she gets probation. And then, of course, that story gets spread around, which will just reinforce the idea that once you're on the sex offender registry, your life is basically over. Since the consequences of working with the system are just as bad (if not worse) than the consequences of avoiding the system, of course, that's going to make things so very much better.
Did you read that article in the Seattle Times about child sex offenders? Kids as young as 11 are being put on the sex offender registry for life, with no ability to have their criminal records expunged when they turn 18.
Here's the sad part: These child sex offenders have incredibly low rates of recidivism upon completing treatment. No matter, their lives are over. Some undoubtedly think this is a good thing.
NakedZerglingA more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
you know what? if you're on a sex offender list for rape or molestation then some people think your life should be over. If you don't want the shame of being an offender, DON'T RAPE KIDS. keep your cock in your pants.
I love the people on the to catch a predator show who make refrence to the show "boy i hope this isn't a sting like that msnbc thing" right before they get busted. They KNOW the risk and they take it any way. Some people think that proves how "sick" they are. I don't think it excuses them the crime. I mean people know the speed limit and choose to speed...maybe we can get a human rights group to say some of us can't help ourselves but to drive really fast. We should get a ticket of be responsible for any accidents we cause.
We've become a nation of whiny pussies who take no responsibility for our actions.
edit
i concede that like anything there are issues that should be able to be reviewed...but its the same bullshit society we live in that would put an 11 year old on a sex offender list, or suspend a 6 year old for having a plastic knife at school for peanut butter.
you know what? if you're on a sex offender list for rape or molestation.
Two kids play doctor, later one of them tells his or her parents about it. The other kid is arrested and charged with sexual assault, is branded a sex offender for life.
If this is your idea of justice, then you have issues.
you know what? if you're on a sex offender list for rape or molestation then some people think your life should be over. If you don't want the shame of being an offender, DON'T RAPE KIDS. keep your cock in your pants.
I love the people on the to catch a predator show who make refrence to the show "boy i hope this isn't a sting like that msnbc thing" right before they get busted. They KNOW the risk and they take it any way. Some people think that proves how "sick" they are. I don't think it excuses them the crime. I mean people know the speed limit and choose to speed...maybe we can get a human rights group to say some of us can't help ourselves but to drive really fast. We should get a ticket of be responsible for any accidents we cause.
We've become a nation of whiny pussies who take no responsibility for our actions.
Really? What "actions" have these people taken that are deserving of having their life be over?
Not to mention that peeing in an alley is enough to land you on the sex offender registry in some places.
Not to mention the fact that children should not be treated like "adults in smaller bodies" when they are in no way such. It's bullshit. I'm uncomfortable with charging 16 year olds as adults, but 13 year olds? No.
We've become a nation of whiny pussies who take no responsibility for our actions.
And you know what, I couldn't agree more with this; we take people who commit these crimes, let them out of jail into areas where they are legally prohibited from living, tell them they can't leave or have a job, and then get all righteous when the re-offend.
Seriously, it's about time we started taking some goddamn responsibility for what we as a society do to these people.
NakedZerglingA more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
I agree about the children as adults thing. But i think usually the focus is on adults preying on children.
i find it difficult to argue with someone who wants to defend rapists and molesters. You make it sound like 90% of the people on the list are "innocent"
I agree about the children as adults thing. But i think usually the focus is on adults preying on children.
The article I mentioned is about how the "focus" has been expanded to any situation where the victim is a child, regardless of the age of the perpetrator. Our national hysteria over pedophilia is ruining lives, and it will ruin more, and it will not protect children at all.
NakedZerglingA more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
We had a guy down the street from us try to lure a 13 year old girl into his car. It turns out it's his 5th FUCKING offense. But Rhode Island is such a libral state that he keeps getting let out after being "cured" or "rewired" or what ever bullshit they call it.
if some asshole who has touched 4 children touches MY daughter i will kill him. And yes i think that is justice.
I agree about the children as adults thing. But i think usually the focus is on adults preying on children.
i find it difficult to argue with someone who wants to defend rapists and molesters. You make it sound like 90% of the people on the list are "innocent"
There are multiple lists (by state), and a lot of the people on those lists are innocent. If you're 17 and dating a 16-year-old, do you really think your life should be over just because you turned 18?
And let's assume for the moment that each and every person on that list is a child molester who totally deserves to be on it (even though that's not anywhere close to true): in what way is society or the molesters served by putting them in a situation where the best possible outcome for them is going back to prison? Why would you want to encourage them to reoffend? Do you like child rape that much?
We had a guy down the street from us try to lure a 13 year old girl into his car. It turns out it's his 5th FUCKING offense. But Rhode Island is such a libral state that he keeps getting let out after being "cured" or "rewired" or what ever bullshit they call it.
if some asshole who has touched 4 children touches MY daughter i will kill him. And yes i think that is justice.
Yes, and you'd certainly be doing society a great favor with your "justice," as the next bunch of guys who get out of prison after hearing that story decide they'd be better off just dropping off the radar entirely rather than risk their lives by registering as a sex offender. Good work!
But, I mean, hey, why would you care if ten other girls got molested just because you had a hard-on for revenge? At least the guy being dead makes everything all better, right?
We had a guy down the street from us try to lure a 13 year old girl into his car. It turns out it's his 5th FUCKING offense. But Rhode Island is such a libral state that he keeps getting let out after being "cured" or "rewired" or what ever bullshit they call it.
if some asshole who has touched 4 children touches MY daughter i will kill him. And yes i think that is justice.
Oh of course, it's all the fault of liberals that child molestation exists.
I didn't know it was self-righteous to not want pedophiles to prey on kids on the internet.
Yes, because this is the best way to go about discouraging that. Certainly not any negative externalities from this kind of shit. I mean, why would you complain about the government listening to all of your phone calls, or videotaping your every move? What, you want terrorists to be able to attack us with impunity?
I never claimed their means were perfect or even good, I just said it wasn't self-righteous.
I mean, it's not like they act like Mark Foley or anything.
I didn't know it was self-righteous to not want pedophiles to prey on kids on the internet.
Yes, because this is the best way to go about discouraging that. Certainly not any negative externalities from this kind of shit. I mean, why would you complain about the government listening to all of your phone calls, or videotaping your every move? What, you want terrorists to be able to attack us with impunity?
I never claimed their means were perfect or even good, I just said it wasn't self-righteous.
I mean, it's not like they act like Mark Foley or anything.
No, it's the fact that these people pretend like they're some sort of heroes for doing this shit that makes them self-righteous.
If they were trying to do it on the down-low, that would just make them scum, instead of self-righteous scum.
Thanatos on
0
Options
KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
No, it's the fact that these people pretend like they're some sort of heroes for doing this shit that makes them self-righteous.
If they were trying to do it on the down-low, that would just make them scum, instead of self-righteous scum.
I'm not sure who you think are acting like their heroes. The Perverted Justice team are a bunch of no names, the most notable person is Chris Hansen, but SOMEONE has to host the damn show, and I haven't heard anything about them writing books or doing any kind of publicity.
Scum? They're doing what they think best, especially the PJ team. They may be wrong and misguided, but that doesn't make them scum.
No, it's the fact that these people pretend like they're some sort of heroes for doing this shit that makes them self-righteous.
If they were trying to do it on the down-low, that would just make them scum, instead of self-righteous scum.
I'm not sure who you think are acting like their heroes. The Perverted Justice team are a bunch of no names, the most notable person is Chris Hansen, but SOMEONE has to host the damn show, and I haven't heard anything about them writing books or doing any kind of publicity.
Scum? They're doing what they think best, especially the PJ team. They may be wrong and misguided, but that doesn't make them scum.
NAMBLA is also doing what they think best. Personally, I think they're scum, too. But I guess you'd disagree, right?
As for "not doing any kind of publicity," have you ever looked at their website? You don't partner up with a cable news network and pull this kind of shit because you don't want publicity. Note the donations link.
Thanatos on
0
Options
KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
No, no one has to host this show. This show should not exist, it's a veritable abortion.
Perhaps, but it doe exist and calling the people who are a part of it scum just because they take a different tact than you isn't the most intellectual thing ever.
Ah screw it I'm arguing against the nature of D&D, who am I kidding?
Kagera on
My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
0
Options
KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
No, it's the fact that these people pretend like they're some sort of heroes for doing this shit that makes them self-righteous.
If they were trying to do it on the down-low, that would just make them scum, instead of self-righteous scum.
I'm not sure who you think are acting like their heroes. The Perverted Justice team are a bunch of no names, the most notable person is Chris Hansen, but SOMEONE has to host the damn show, and I haven't heard anything about them writing books or doing any kind of publicity.
Scum? They're doing what they think best, especially the PJ team. They may be wrong and misguided, but that doesn't make them scum.
NAMBLA is also doing what they think best. Personally, I think they're scum, too. But I guess you'd disagree, right?
As for "not doing any kind of publicity," have you ever looked at their website? You don't partner up with a cable news network and pull this kind of shit because you don't want publicity. Note the donations link.
Because people who want to protect children from predators are JUST LIKE people who want to fuck 4 year olds.
No, it's the fact that these people pretend like they're some sort of heroes for doing this shit that makes them self-righteous.
If they were trying to do it on the down-low, that would just make them scum, instead of self-righteous scum.
I'm not sure who you think are acting like their heroes. The Perverted Justice team are a bunch of no names, the most notable person is Chris Hansen, but SOMEONE has to host the damn show, and I haven't heard anything about them writing books or doing any kind of publicity.
Scum? They're doing what they think best, especially the PJ team. They may be wrong and misguided, but that doesn't make them scum.
NAMBLA is also doing what they think best. Personally, I think they're scum, too. But I guess you'd disagree, right?
As for "not doing any kind of publicity," have you ever looked at their website? You don't partner up with a cable news network and pull this kind of shit because you don't want publicity. Note the donations link.
Because people who want to protect children from predators are JUST LIKE people who want to fuck 4 year olds.
Thank you mister reasonable.
You can take any extremist position and turn it into something that sounds reasonable. "You want to protect the children, right? So you agree that we should outlaw eating anything but baby food, since a baby could choke on it, right?"
PJ is just a part of this obsessive movement to protect "the children" we have in this country. There are seven words that people aren't allowed to say on television at any time, why? Because of the children. We can't show uncut movies on television either, because of the children (nevermind the fact that it's ridiculously easy to block things you don't want your kids to see, now). We should throw out the Constitution, why? In order to protect the children. Better outlaw alcohol, too, so that we can protect the children. Marijuana, as well (nevermind that having it outlawed makes it easier for kids to get ahold of). All "for the children," and it's fucking stupid.
You know what the best way to protect kids from online predators is? Monitor their internet use. Tell them "hey, inviting naked people to come over to your house isn't something you should do." How many kids have been actually harmed by online predators? Do you have statistics? Or is PJ just selling us mastadon repellent, then talking about how well it works?
Also, what Jeepguy said.
You want people to take personal responsibility? Howsabout some of these parents take some personal responsibility? You popped a kid out, it's your job to keep the kid safe from the horrors of the outside world.
No, it's the fact that these people pretend like they're some sort of heroes for doing this shit that makes them self-righteous.
If they were trying to do it on the down-low, that would just make them scum, instead of self-righteous scum.
I'm not sure who you think are acting like their heroes. The Perverted Justice team are a bunch of no names, the most notable person is Chris Hansen, but SOMEONE has to host the damn show, and I haven't heard anything about them writing books or doing any kind of publicity.
Scum? They're doing what they think best, especially the PJ team. They may be wrong and misguided, but that doesn't make them scum.
NAMBLA is also doing what they think best. Personally, I think they're scum, too. But I guess you'd disagree, right?
As for "not doing any kind of publicity," have you ever looked at their website? You don't partner up with a cable news network and pull this kind of shit because you don't want publicity. Note the donations link.
Because people who want to protect children from predators are JUST LIKE people who want to fuck 4 year olds.
Thank you mister reasonable.
and why can't they leave this job to the police?
There honest to god cops and federal agents doing this already. What good does adding a questionably accountable vigilante justice agency into the mix do?
And lets be honest, Perverted Justice is, for all intents and purposes, a vigilante organization.
and, this is several pages back, as to the validity of the Texas solicitation law, I can see the point in it when an actual minor involved, but I have to question the logical validity of it when talking to Perverted Justice, as there is no actual child in question
it'd be like arresting a person for having delusions that he's having a sexual conversation with a minor, sure he's having a sexual conversation, but the minor is completely non-existent.
and, this is several pages back, as to the validity of the Texas solicitation law, I can see the point in it when an actual minor involved, but I have to question the logical validity of it when talking to Perverted Justice, as there is no actual child in question
it'd be like arresting a person for having delusions that he's having a sexual conversation with a minor, sure he's having a sexual conversation, but the minor is completely non-existent.
But he doesn't know that. And it is in no way a delusion (because the illusion is entirely created at the other end).
If I pose as a hit man, and you give me money to kill somebody, did you suddenly not commit a crime simply because I'm not actually a hit man?
and, this is several pages back, as to the validity of the Texas solicitation law, I can see the point in it when an actual minor involved, but I have to question the logical validity of it when talking to Perverted Justice, as there is no actual child in question
it'd be like arresting a person for having delusions that he's having a sexual conversation with a minor, sure he's having a sexual conversation, but the minor is completely non-existent.
But he doesn't know that. And it is in no way a delusion (because the illusion is entirely created at the other end).
If I pose as a hit man, and you give me money to kill somebody, did you suddenly not commit a crime simply because I'm not actually a hit man?
neither does the guy having the delusion, that's the point, that both the person with the delusion and the person in the chat with the PJ agent are both talking with non-existent minors that they perceive as real
and wouldn't, for your idea to be accurate, I'd have to pay you to kill someone who was entirely non-existent? You're not the one being harmed, the target is. And isn't the point of the law to protect people from harm?
neither does the guy having the delusion, that's the point, that both the person with the delusion and the person in the chat with the PJ agent are both talking with non-existent minors that they perceive as real
and wouldn't, for your idea to be accurate, I'd have to pay you to kill someone who was entirely non-existent? You're not the one being harmed, the target is. And isn't the point of the law to protect people from harm?
Well, sometimes we make certain behavior illegal even if nobody is harmed, because somebody could likely be in the future. For instance, discharging a firearm within city limits. The idea is that a guy who is willing to solicit a PJ member sex (thinking they're underage) may well try to solicit an actual minor for sex next time.
Of course, this all depends on just how hard PJ are trolling for guys. At this point, it's likely all they're really picking up is the "low hanging fruit," or guys who likely would never have actually tried anything without the kind of "nudging" that PJ provides.
neither does the guy having the delusion, that's the point, that both the person with the delusion and the person in the chat with the PJ agent are both talking with non-existent minors that they perceive as real
and wouldn't, for your idea to be accurate, I'd have to pay you to kill someone who was entirely non-existent? You're not the one being harmed, the target is. And isn't the point of the law to protect people from harm?
Well, sometimes we make certain behavior illegal even if nobody is harmed, because somebody could likely be in the future. For instance, discharging a firearm within city limits. The idea is that a guy who is willing to solicit a PJ member sex (thinking they're underage) may well try to solicit an actual minor for sex next time.
Of course, this all depends on just how hard PJ are trolling for guys. At this point, it's likely all they're really picking up is the "low hanging fruit," or guys who likely would never have actually tried anything without the kind of "nudging" that PJ provides.
that's pretty much the reason it worries me. How many people would never, ever have acted on their pedophilia if they hadn't been tempted into it by Perverted Justice?
That, and the uncomfortable proximity into Thought Crime territory
Posts
My bigger concern is that shows like this make accusation of pedophelia very, very sticky. This was mentioned a few pages ago, but what's stopping a small town from labeling a soccer coach, or a new guy who doesn't visit the local church, or anyone that someone dislikes, as a pedophile? And what's worse, it's already been established in this thread that there are people who would be perfectly happy setting up a lynch mob to kill these people based entirely on speculation.
I mean, pedophelia is bad, wrong, all that, but to me shows like this don't seem all that different from "To Catch a Black Man" back in the turn of the century South. "We've set up a telegram chat with John Freeman, who was seen conversing with a white woman. We suspect he wishes to know her carnally," and it ends with a tree and a noose. Now, pedophelia is actually illegal, but it should be handled in a court of law, and investigated by law enforcement -- not network television. And once it's broadcast, how the hell do you get a fair trial? And if you play a part of creating a dramatic increase in sensitivity to the crime, making people jump at shadows and making it difficult for anyone who isn't actually a pedophile to get a fair shake at justice, how is that good?
The few times I've seen the show, it's usually obvious that there's an undertone that the criminal would have had sex with a child had there been a child at the residence. It does make you wonder, though, if they sit in chat rooms and get pissed off when someone doesn't take the bait.
This. "Awareness" of Pedophilia has been increased to a level where even the accusation can destroy peoples lifes. To those who advocate brutal punishments to pedophiles, do you, honestly, think "innocent until proven guilty" when someone would be brought before you, charged with pedophilia?
The absurd thing with these charges is that even if you manage to successfully defend yourself, there will always be this "yeah, well, he was charged with child molestion, but nothing could be proven", thing around.
I would love to headbutt Nancy Grace and her cadre of bitch lawyers. Oh my god I hate her so much.
This is why the "Church" of Scientology loves to accuse critics of being child molesters. Slander and libel laws being toothless and unenforceable in this country, there is nothing stopping an unscrupulous person or group from labeling someone a pedophile. Unless the person is wealthy enough to pay for all the court proceedings for long enough to win a civil suit (ie: Don't accuse Tom Cruise of being gay) there's nothing they can do.
Makes me wonder that, and also wonder if when the pedos don't take the bait, do they get pissed off and then start going all over the top sexy with "Oh please come over, please please I'm so horny and naked and wet just thinking about you please please oh my parents aren't at home please please" until the guy finally gives in. Basically, a Charlie the Unicorn situation.
....
You realize it isn't the kids who aren't allowed to fuck adults, right?
skate, halo 3
Check the next line before you jump to that.
The government kills kids, so it should be okay for adults to fuck them?
skate, halo 3
It makes so much sense that it's how it works in most countries, actually.
The most usual way to regulate statutory rape is claiming it's a matter of consent. If the person is mature enough to give consent, it's no rape. That's a very popular way to think about underage consent, and it's used in everything from managing their own money to considering them criminally responsible and consenting to medical treatments and sex.
In fact, in most places it tends to go the other way, you accept that maybe a 16 years old person can consent to sex (which is commonly known as opening your eyes and looking at how things really work), but it's pressumed that when it comes to commiting a crime nobody under 18 is fully responsible.
Of course, in most places killing people is also considered a barbaric from of punishment, so this compared law approach might not really apply.
Yeah! who do those assholes think they are! trying to stop child rapists! HOW DARE THEY. Grown men should be able to fuck little boys..i mean look at history, men in Greece and Rome fucked boys. There's no reason men today shouldn't be able to!
NAMBLA FOR LIFE
in case you couldn't tell thats sarcasm, and you're a fucking idiot.
And hey, really, what better way to make sex offenders not want to fall off the radar than by beating them with baseball bats.
Really, the bitch should get hit with attempted murder, and go to prison for a very long time. What will actually end up happening? I'll be surprised if she gets probation. And then, of course, that story gets spread around, which will just reinforce the idea that once you're on the sex offender registry, your life is basically over. Since the consequences of working with the system are just as bad (if not worse) than the consequences of avoiding the system, of course, that's going to make things so very much better.
Did you read that article in the Seattle Times about child sex offenders? Kids as young as 11 are being put on the sex offender registry for life, with no ability to have their criminal records expunged when they turn 18.
Here's the sad part: These child sex offenders have incredibly low rates of recidivism upon completing treatment. No matter, their lives are over. Some undoubtedly think this is a good thing.
I love the people on the to catch a predator show who make refrence to the show "boy i hope this isn't a sting like that msnbc thing" right before they get busted. They KNOW the risk and they take it any way. Some people think that proves how "sick" they are. I don't think it excuses them the crime. I mean people know the speed limit and choose to speed...maybe we can get a human rights group to say some of us can't help ourselves but to drive really fast. We should get a ticket of be responsible for any accidents we cause.
We've become a nation of whiny pussies who take no responsibility for our actions.
edit
i concede that like anything there are issues that should be able to be reviewed...but its the same bullshit society we live in that would put an 11 year old on a sex offender list, or suspend a 6 year old for having a plastic knife at school for peanut butter.
Two kids play doctor, later one of them tells his or her parents about it. The other kid is arrested and charged with sexual assault, is branded a sex offender for life.
If this is your idea of justice, then you have issues.
Not to mention that peeing in an alley is enough to land you on the sex offender registry in some places.
Seriously, it's about time we started taking some goddamn responsibility for what we as a society do to these people.
i find it difficult to argue with someone who wants to defend rapists and molesters. You make it sound like 90% of the people on the list are "innocent"
The article I mentioned is about how the "focus" has been expanded to any situation where the victim is a child, regardless of the age of the perpetrator. Our national hysteria over pedophilia is ruining lives, and it will ruin more, and it will not protect children at all.
if some asshole who has touched 4 children touches MY daughter i will kill him. And yes i think that is justice.
And let's assume for the moment that each and every person on that list is a child molester who totally deserves to be on it (even though that's not anywhere close to true): in what way is society or the molesters served by putting them in a situation where the best possible outcome for them is going back to prison? Why would you want to encourage them to reoffend? Do you like child rape that much?
But, I mean, hey, why would you care if ten other girls got molested just because you had a hard-on for revenge? At least the guy being dead makes everything all better, right?
Oh of course, it's all the fault of liberals that child molestation exists.
WHERE IS MY DAMN :ROLL: EMOTE NOW, GOD?
I never claimed their means were perfect or even good, I just said it wasn't self-righteous.
I mean, it's not like they act like Mark Foley or anything.
If they were trying to do it on the down-low, that would just make them scum, instead of self-righteous scum.
I'm not sure who you think are acting like their heroes. The Perverted Justice team are a bunch of no names, the most notable person is Chris Hansen, but SOMEONE has to host the damn show, and I haven't heard anything about them writing books or doing any kind of publicity.
Scum? They're doing what they think best, especially the PJ team. They may be wrong and misguided, but that doesn't make them scum.
As for "not doing any kind of publicity," have you ever looked at their website? You don't partner up with a cable news network and pull this kind of shit because you don't want publicity. Note the donations link.
Perhaps, but it doe exist and calling the people who are a part of it scum just because they take a different tact than you isn't the most intellectual thing ever.
Ah screw it I'm arguing against the nature of D&D, who am I kidding?
Because people who want to protect children from predators are JUST LIKE people who want to fuck 4 year olds.
Thank you mister reasonable.
Who ever said that protecting children was their primary goal? Or even their goal at all?
No no, the goal here is exploitation, sensationalism, and money.
PJ is just a part of this obsessive movement to protect "the children" we have in this country. There are seven words that people aren't allowed to say on television at any time, why? Because of the children. We can't show uncut movies on television either, because of the children (nevermind the fact that it's ridiculously easy to block things you don't want your kids to see, now). We should throw out the Constitution, why? In order to protect the children. Better outlaw alcohol, too, so that we can protect the children. Marijuana, as well (nevermind that having it outlawed makes it easier for kids to get ahold of). All "for the children," and it's fucking stupid.
You know what the best way to protect kids from online predators is? Monitor their internet use. Tell them "hey, inviting naked people to come over to your house isn't something you should do." How many kids have been actually harmed by online predators? Do you have statistics? Or is PJ just selling us mastadon repellent, then talking about how well it works?
Also, what Jeepguy said.
You want people to take personal responsibility? Howsabout some of these parents take some personal responsibility? You popped a kid out, it's your job to keep the kid safe from the horrors of the outside world.
and why can't they leave this job to the police?
There honest to god cops and federal agents doing this already. What good does adding a questionably accountable vigilante justice agency into the mix do?
And lets be honest, Perverted Justice is, for all intents and purposes, a vigilante organization.
it'd be like arresting a person for having delusions that he's having a sexual conversation with a minor, sure he's having a sexual conversation, but the minor is completely non-existent.
But he doesn't know that. And it is in no way a delusion (because the illusion is entirely created at the other end).
If I pose as a hit man, and you give me money to kill somebody, did you suddenly not commit a crime simply because I'm not actually a hit man?
neither does the guy having the delusion, that's the point, that both the person with the delusion and the person in the chat with the PJ agent are both talking with non-existent minors that they perceive as real
and wouldn't, for your idea to be accurate, I'd have to pay you to kill someone who was entirely non-existent? You're not the one being harmed, the target is. And isn't the point of the law to protect people from harm?
Well, sometimes we make certain behavior illegal even if nobody is harmed, because somebody could likely be in the future. For instance, discharging a firearm within city limits. The idea is that a guy who is willing to solicit a PJ member sex (thinking they're underage) may well try to solicit an actual minor for sex next time.
Of course, this all depends on just how hard PJ are trolling for guys. At this point, it's likely all they're really picking up is the "low hanging fruit," or guys who likely would never have actually tried anything without the kind of "nudging" that PJ provides.
that's pretty much the reason it worries me. How many people would never, ever have acted on their pedophilia if they hadn't been tempted into it by Perverted Justice?
That, and the uncomfortable proximity into Thought Crime territory