I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of other black characters in RE5 that are black and not zombies. Your partner, for one
Well, the whole light-skinned "good" African with Western, white, middle-class accepted modes of speech and behavior is, unfortunately, actually another Hollywood stereotype.
Unless I'm wrong, she's not really presented as in any way similar to or a part of the group of africans that are being turned into zombies, no? So that entire group of people is still dehumanized. What's needed are people who look like them, speak like them, and still humanized and relatable. Having some completely different Westernized, light-skinned black person who doesn't look, act, or speak anything like the people being dehumanized really doesn't help, especially when the only "good" black person conforms to white standards that still plague this country today (like how among most African Americans, as well as Hollywood and the fashion industry, light skin is considered more attractive than dark skin).
Like I said, having a black protagonist doesn't make the problem go away by itself.
I would really like this further explained.
How come you can't have a black person with middle-class accepted mode of speech? I see this complaint alot when there are black people portrayed.
Because I am not trying to be mean here but if we were to say look percentage wise at say black doctors, the majority of them would come from middle class families as opposed to people from the ghetto. So why is it surprise that they speak where they are from?
No, what he's saying is that having a black character with more 'relatable' speech and mannerisms, etc., doesn't help to undo the portrayal as the Africans in the game as mindless/violent/savages, because she is then patently not a part of that group at all.
No that's cool I get that.
But I have heard this complaint in that they don't "sound black enough" before and I am genuinely curious about it.
My problem with Resident Evil 5 is that the enemies are no longer entirely zombies, they're merely parasitically infected humans. This zombie franchise has been stripped of its zombies, and now thousands of slow shambling zombies are out of a job. Dead Rising 2 may come with a stimulus of needed jobs for the shambling zombie market, but with all Fast Zombies capable of slowing down to meet the reduced speed requirements, many exclusively slow zombies will again find it increasingly hard to find employment in today's spiraling economy.
No, what he's saying is that having a black character with more 'relatable' speech and mannerisms, etc., doesn't help to undo the portrayal as the Africans in the game as mindless/violent/savages, because she is then patently not a part of that group at all.
No that's cool I get that.
But I have heard this complaint in that they don't "sound black enough" before and I am genuinely curious about it.
Oh, that.
It kind of varies with intent, I think.
On the one hand it can be some seriously racist bullshit, the idea that a well-spoken, middle-class black is not "believable".
On the other hand there is a strong desire in a lot of TV/Movie circles to want to present "safe" black characters, that aren't too different or strong or threatening.
Or it can dissolve into some ridiculously convoluted and idiotic identity politics, a la what Javen said.
My problem with Resident Evil 5 is that the enemies are no longer entirely zombies, they're merely parasitically infected humans. This zombie franchise has been stripped of its zombies, and now thousands of slow shambling zombies are out of a job. Dead Rising 2 may come with a stimulus of needed jobs for the shambling zombie market, but with all Fast Zombies capable of slowing down to meet the reduced speed requirements, many exclusively slow zombies will again find it increasingly hard to find employment in today's spiraling economy.
Back to you, Tom.
Thanks Diane.
This just in, Family Guy references suck ass. More at eleven.
But I have heard this complaint in that they don't "sound black enough" before and I am genuinely curious about it.
That's mostly stupid.
But a more detailed complaint could go sort of like this:
Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional. The only time people tend to break out of this at all is the "color-blind" character, where their race is literally just completely ignored. I think a lot of people find this disingenuous though, especially black people, because it's hard to be black and not notice your own race, and have it influence your life. So a character who is written "color-blind" isn't perfect, though in my own opinion it's still better than a stupid stereotype.
Now some media of course actually manages to portray black characters that are, you know, properly fleshed out and well-written but in a race-conscious way.
I think if those kinds of characters weren't so rare, actually the concept of the color-blind character would be completely fine.
Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional.
Let's be fair here.
Portrayal of people in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes.
The controls are the same as RE4's, but for some reason I felt like I was struggling with them a lot more in this game than I was in the other. I think it's just because the areas they dump you into in the demo are actually kind of hard.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
Racism is about intent and beliefs. I don't know how you could think of it otherwise.
A white man shooting a black man is not inherently racist, that's the point of the comic. People were calling RE5 racist the moment that a white protagonist was shown facing black antagonists.
I guess we better not make any games with black people in them. That'll avoid racism for certain.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
The only thing you are going to convince game developers of doing is that they should never set their games in Africa for any reason.
Hell, I think this is the only one ever.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
My problem with Resident Evil 5 is that the enemies are no longer entirely zombies, they're merely parasitically infected humans. This zombie franchise has been stripped of its zombies, and now thousands of slow shambling zombies are out of a job. Dead Rising 2 may come with a stimulus of needed jobs for the shambling zombie market, but with all Fast Zombies capable of slowing down to meet the reduced speed requirements, many exclusively slow zombies will again find it increasingly hard to find employment in today's spiraling economy.
Back to you, Tom.
Thanks Diane.
This just in, Family Guy references suck ass. More at eleven.
Also it's worth mentioning that white middle-class modes of speech and behavior shouldn't be taken at face value as superior or necessary.
Certainly there are plenty of very intelligent and successful people who "sound black" or "dress black" or in whatever other way conform to a more stereotypical image of African Americans, and why in the hell should they have to adopt different mannerisms or styles of dress?
I think it's people like this who feel most left out of all in media portrayal.
Like, a guy I knew in Ohio, who dressed "ghetto," smoked wine-flavored Black N Milds, used black slang, and generally disliked white people but he graduated with honors from Princeton, as did his brother. We shouldn't consider those things incongruous, but most of us do, thanks to widespread media stereotypes
People like him don't really have any representation in American media whatsoever.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
Whenever I think about stereotypical statistics, I think of young black males that have been in prison once
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional. The only time people tend to break out of this at all is the "color-blind" character, where their race is literally just completely ignored. I think a lot of people find this disingenuous though, especially black people, because it's hard to be black and not notice your own race, and have it influence your life. So a character who is written "color-blind" isn't perfect, though in my own opinion it's still better than a stupid stereotype.
Now some media of course actually manages to portray black characters that are, you know, properly fleshed out and well-written but in a race-conscious way.
I think if those kinds of characters weren't so rare, actually the concept of the color-blind character would be completely fine.
Developed characters of any skin color are fucking rare.
Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional.
Let's be fair here.
Portrayal of people in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes.
It's true, but for white people, who are considered "normal" in American media, those stereotypes are things like "frat boy" and "nerd" and whatever else. For black characters, those stereotypes are all defined primarily by their race.
The problem is that white people are considered "normal." Anyone else is racialized. White characters, just like white people in America, aren't defined at all by their race. Black characters, as well as other minority characters, are defined that way in the public eye.
Just think about this, for instance: we don't find anything unusual about black people seeing movies with all or almost entirely all white characters, but we do consider it weird for white people to attend movies with predominately black casts.
I mean, just think about it -- there are "black" movies. Are there "white" movies? No, of course not, we consider those just "regular" or "normal" movies. This is because whites are considered normal and not identified or defined by their race
sdrawkcaB emaN on
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PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
edited February 2009
Pharezon on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
Although I am pretty sure that the black dude in the second panel is staring right at her chest.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional.
Let's be fair here.
Portrayal of people in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes.
It's true, but for white people, who are considered "normal" in American media, those stereotypes are things like "frat boy" and "nerd" and whatever else. For black characters, those stereotypes are all defined primarily by their race.
The problem is that white people are considered "normal." Anyone else is racialized. White characters, just like white people in America, aren't defined at all by their race. Black characters, as well as other minority characters, are defined that way in the public eye.
Just think about this, for instance: we don't find anything unusual about black people seeing movies with all or almost entirely all white characters, but we do consider it weird for white people to attend movies with predominately black casts.
I mean, just think about it -- there are "black" movies. Are there "white" movies? No, of course not, we consider those just "regular" or "normal" movies. This is because whites are considered normal and not identified or defined by their race
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Racism is about intent and beliefs. I don't know how you could think of it otherwise.
A white man shooting a black man is not inherently racist, that's the point of the comic. People were calling RE5 racist the moment that a white protagonist was shown facing black antagonists.
Actually that's not really true at all. The vast majority of the criticism did not revolve around simply a white character shooting black characters, but many other images in the game, and the context of that violence.
Additionally, if you read the newspost, you would have seen that they did actually find the game to present some uncomfortable imagery.
Also, you don't seem to have read anything anyone said in this thread about this issue.
I, for instance, specifically pointed out how it's not the white character shooting black characters that's inherently racist, it's the the stereotypes presented.
Also, Munkus, tell me what you think about this:
Bill O'Reilly went to a famous soul food restaurant in Harlem, and on his show the next day talked at length about how "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"
Now, he of course insisted that that segment wasn't racist at all, because he didn't intend it to be.
However, clearly, the fact that he thinks he needs to explain that people weren't calling waiters motherfuckers in a soul food restaurant indicates that he's internalized and is propagating stereotypes and, is in fact, racist.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited February 2009
Pharezon showing us pictures of black people does not stop the game from having racist overtones.
The issue really isn't a white dude (and a pleasantly lightened black friend) shooting black people.
It's the issue of the beat down of the white girl and the savages thing. Those are the main issues.
There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"
One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated
There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"
Do you actually think whites are getting short-shrifted here? Are we being oppressed by PC watchdogs or something?
I don't want to assume anything and respond before clarifying what you're saying here.
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PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
Pharezon showing us pictures of black people does not stop the game from having racist overtones.
The issue really isn't a white dude (and a pleasantly lightened black friend) shooting black people.
It's the issue of the beat down of the white girl and the savages thing. Those are the main issues.
Not saying it doesn't it was more in reference to Backwards.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
I can see how that isn't racist in two ways since his expectations would be for a soul food dining environment in harlem.
If you tell me that you're gonna take me to a roadhouse outside of Jasper, I am going to have expectations too.
Second, he could be speaking
People act like human beings don't hear stories and conduct pattern recognition in their brains on a subconscious level, and that it's somehow evil for a person to have any sort of expectation and have it proved wrong.
I'll tell you this: If I am walking in New York at night and I see a guy behind me in a hoodie and saggy pants, I'm gonna cross the street cause I'm afraid. If I see a guy behind me wearing a suit I won't do shit.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"
One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated
I didn't realize that the Matrix was meant to target white audiences.
Best go tell my asian buds that they were out of the demographic.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"
One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated
I didn't realize that the Matrix was meant to target white audiences.
Best go tell my asian buds that they were out of the demographic.
I think what he meant was that it doesn't discriminate, ie it targets all audiences, whites included.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Racism is about intent and beliefs. I don't know how you could think of it otherwise.
A white man shooting a black man is not inherently racist, that's the point of the comic. People were calling RE5 racist the moment that a white protagonist was shown facing black antagonists.
Actually that's not really true at all. The vast majority of the criticism did not revolve around simply a white character shooting black characters, but many other images in the game, and the context of that violence.
Additionally, if you read the newspost, you would have seen that they did actually find the game to present some uncomfortable imagery.
Also, you don't seem to have read anything anyone said in this thread about this issue.
I, for instance, specifically pointed out how it's not the white character shooting black characters that's inherently racist, it's the the stereotypes presented.
Also, Munkus, tell me what you think about this:
Bill O'Reilly went to a famous soul food restaurant in Harlem, and on his show the next day talked at length about how "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"
Now, he of course insisted that that segment wasn't racist at all, because he didn't intend it to be.
However, clearly, the fact that he thinks he needs to explain that people weren't calling waiters motherfuckers in a soul food restaurant indicates that he's internalized and is propagating stereotypes and, is in fact, racist.
Well no, isn't he saying, he more saying? Hey, I used to think this, (which was racist) but I have come to realise that this is not the case and I was wrong in believing that.
I can't seem to find the full blog of that crazy lady who was ranting how racist RE5 was. She was a barrel full of crazy; it was a delightful read.
Remember the hideous fatbeast bitch that complained about Fat Princess? That was funny, too. Hey fatty, if you don't like it, why don't you do some light exercise a couple times a week and fucking control what you eat? Stupid fatbody.
Posts
I'm going to wait until it drops in price at least because the demo was really underwhelming.
But not out of principle because of any racist bollocks.
I'd buy a Ku Klux Revolution game if it was fun enough. Morals be damned.
It's always the way they've controlled. As far as survival horror goes I much prefer the more deliberate, yet slightly unrealistic movement.
No that's cool I get that.
But I have heard this complaint in that they don't "sound black enough" before and I am genuinely curious about it.
Satans..... hints.....
Back to you, Tom.
Oh, that.
It kind of varies with intent, I think.
On the one hand it can be some seriously racist bullshit, the idea that a well-spoken, middle-class black is not "believable".
On the other hand there is a strong desire in a lot of TV/Movie circles to want to present "safe" black characters, that aren't too different or strong or threatening.
Or it can dissolve into some ridiculously convoluted and idiotic identity politics, a la what Javen said.
Thanks Diane.
This just in, Family Guy references suck ass. More at eleven.
what is a fallout
out?
That's mostly stupid.
But a more detailed complaint could go sort of like this:
Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional. The only time people tend to break out of this at all is the "color-blind" character, where their race is literally just completely ignored. I think a lot of people find this disingenuous though, especially black people, because it's hard to be black and not notice your own race, and have it influence your life. So a character who is written "color-blind" isn't perfect, though in my own opinion it's still better than a stupid stereotype.
Now some media of course actually manages to portray black characters that are, you know, properly fleshed out and well-written but in a race-conscious way.
I think if those kinds of characters weren't so rare, actually the concept of the color-blind character would be completely fine.
but I might be misremembering
also, are the controls basically like the RE4 controls or what? 'cause I was fine with those
Let's be fair here.
Portrayal of people in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes.
The controls are the same as RE4's, but for some reason I felt like I was struggling with them a lot more in this game than I was in the other. I think it's just because the areas they dump you into in the demo are actually kind of hard.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
A white man shooting a black man is not inherently racist, that's the point of the comic. People were calling RE5 racist the moment that a white protagonist was shown facing black antagonists.
I guess we better not make any games with black people in them. That'll avoid racism for certain.
Hell, I think this is the only one ever.
Wait, family guy did this? Goddamnit.
Certainly there are plenty of very intelligent and successful people who "sound black" or "dress black" or in whatever other way conform to a more stereotypical image of African Americans, and why in the hell should they have to adopt different mannerisms or styles of dress?
I think it's people like this who feel most left out of all in media portrayal.
Like, a guy I knew in Ohio, who dressed "ghetto," smoked wine-flavored Black N Milds, used black slang, and generally disliked white people but he graduated with honors from Princeton, as did his brother. We shouldn't consider those things incongruous, but most of us do, thanks to widespread media stereotypes
People like him don't really have any representation in American media whatsoever.
Developed characters of any skin color are fucking rare.
It's true, but for white people, who are considered "normal" in American media, those stereotypes are things like "frat boy" and "nerd" and whatever else. For black characters, those stereotypes are all defined primarily by their race.
The problem is that white people are considered "normal." Anyone else is racialized. White characters, just like white people in America, aren't defined at all by their race. Black characters, as well as other minority characters, are defined that way in the public eye.
Just think about this, for instance: we don't find anything unusual about black people seeing movies with all or almost entirely all white characters, but we do consider it weird for white people to attend movies with predominately black casts.
I mean, just think about it -- there are "black" movies. Are there "white" movies? No, of course not, we consider those just "regular" or "normal" movies. This is because whites are considered normal and not identified or defined by their race
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Actually that's not really true at all. The vast majority of the criticism did not revolve around simply a white character shooting black characters, but many other images in the game, and the context of that violence.
Additionally, if you read the newspost, you would have seen that they did actually find the game to present some uncomfortable imagery.
Also, you don't seem to have read anything anyone said in this thread about this issue.
I, for instance, specifically pointed out how it's not the white character shooting black characters that's inherently racist, it's the the stereotypes presented.
Also, Munkus, tell me what you think about this:
Bill O'Reilly went to a famous soul food restaurant in Harlem, and on his show the next day talked at length about how "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"
Now, he of course insisted that that segment wasn't racist at all, because he didn't intend it to be.
However, clearly, the fact that he thinks he needs to explain that people weren't calling waiters motherfuckers in a soul food restaurant indicates that he's internalized and is propagating stereotypes and, is in fact, racist.
The issue really isn't a white dude (and a pleasantly lightened black friend) shooting black people.
It's the issue of the beat down of the white girl and the savages thing. Those are the main issues.
Satans..... hints.....
One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated
Do you actually think whites are getting short-shrifted here? Are we being oppressed by PC watchdogs or something?
I don't want to assume anything and respond before clarifying what you're saying here.
Not saying it doesn't it was more in reference to Backwards.
If you tell me that you're gonna take me to a roadhouse outside of Jasper, I am going to have expectations too.
Second, he could be speaking
People act like human beings don't hear stories and conduct pattern recognition in their brains on a subconscious level, and that it's somehow evil for a person to have any sort of expectation and have it proved wrong.
I'll tell you this: If I am walking in New York at night and I see a guy behind me in a hoodie and saggy pants, I'm gonna cross the street cause I'm afraid. If I see a guy behind me wearing a suit I won't do shit.
I didn't realize that the Matrix was meant to target white audiences.
Best go tell my asian buds that they were out of the demographic.
I think what he meant was that it doesn't discriminate, ie it targets all audiences, whites included.
Well no, isn't he saying, he more saying? Hey, I used to think this, (which was racist) but I have come to realise that this is not the case and I was wrong in believing that.
Satans..... hints.....
I dare you to find any non-white who wanted to see Beer For My Horses
So there's that.
Remember the hideous fatbeast bitch that complained about Fat Princess? That was funny, too. Hey fatty, if you don't like it, why don't you do some light exercise a couple times a week and fucking control what you eat? Stupid fatbody.