I'll be honest, I'm trying to work out my own feelings on neuro-diversity here. A friend of mine runs an autism/disability rights lobbying group, and we were talking a lot over the weekend. I haven't been the biggest fan of neuro-diversity in the past, but he made some good points.
If we make strict judgements as to what is "okay" and what is "wrong", even if we think we're doing it to help people, we are going to make things even more difficult for the people who simply do not want help.
Eh. There's a certain measure of civil duty to consider. People occassionally have temporary or undesired problems which can lead them to self-harm. We protect children from it on a regular basis, of course, and then there are people like those who have the disorder that makes them not feel that their own body parts are part of them - they occassionally remove their own limbs. And, of course, suicide and depression which is pretty typically something people are happy to overcome, but which they can rarely do on their own.
I'm aware, which is why I guess my feeling is that a line needs to be drawn somewhere.
I also feel that there SHOULD be treatments and the like available for those who DO want them (some of the extreme end of the neuro-diversity crowd seems to oppose this notion.)
What I'm taking away, though, is that if it is possible for some one to function within our society, despite being atypical, as long as people are willing to reasonably accommodate them, then I think that if they want to remain atypical, they should not be looked down upon for that.
Yes, which is why we focus on abnormalities that actually cause serious detriment on and don't go throwing people who don't want to bother with sex in straight jackets. :P
Yes, which is why we focus on abnormalities that actually cause serious detriment on and don't go throwing people who don't want to bother with sex in straight jackets. :P
Eh. There's a certain measure of civil duty to consider. People occassionally have temporary or undesired problems which can lead them to self-harm. We protect children from it on a regular basis, of course, and then there are people like those who have the disorder that makes them not feel that their own body parts are part of them - they occassionally remove their own limbs. And, of course, suicide and depression which is pretty typically something people are happy to overcome, but which they can rarely do on their own.
That is actually a really interesting disorder though. Obviously there are benefits to having that limb, but it's a pretty heavy psychological burden to them to have something which feels so alien attached to them.
What I'm taking away, though, is that if it is possible for some one to function within our society, despite being atypical, as long as people are willing to reasonably accommodate them, then I think that if they want to remain atypical, they should not be looked down upon for that.
Bingo!
No one in this thread has seriously been looking down on asexuals. Many question the existence or scope of their existence (this is me, and it's mostly definitional), others are simply boggled by the notion. I don't think anyone is seriously saying "man those people must be treated! Quick, let's send them to sex camps!"
I do think the language limitations of the internet are making it seem more hostile then it is intended.
That is actually a really interesting disorder though. Obviously there are benefits to having that limb, but it's a pretty heavy psychological burden to them to have something which feels so alien attached to them.
Certainly. Someone whose life is an absolute horrible and painful mess filled with excrutiating memories may also likely spend the rest of their life with the psychological burden if we don't let them kill themselves. It's not at all easy to draw the line.
That is actually a really interesting disorder though. Obviously there are benefits to having that limb, but it's a pretty heavy psychological burden to them to have something which feels so alien attached to them.
Certainly. Someone whose life is an absolute horrible and painful mess filled with excrutiating memories may also likely spend the rest of their life with the psychological burden if we don't let them kill themselves. It's not at all easy to draw the line.
Well it really depends if you support euthanasia. The thing is that there is not a middle ground on depression - you're either alive or dead. It would certainly be preferable to correct...I'm doing to say the body dysmorphia (but I think this is the wrong term) that results in feeling unattached to a body part, but as far as I know we basically don't have the science currently and the net result is frequently that people's quality of life improves once they dispose of it.
The thing is that there is not a middle ground on depression - you're either alive or dead.
depression =/= suicidal tendancies
The main risk factor of depression is that you'll kill yourself.
The others are of course that you generally let your life go to hell through apathy, but actually a big problem in the treatment of depression is the perception of it being "cool" to be depressed in the sense that people look at various great artists who suffered from depression and see there being a stoicism in it rather then seeking treatment.
More importantly however, depression is rather characterized by the inability to make a choice in a sound state of mind. I know of no one who has beaten depression and said "yeah I was happier when I was depressed". I do know of a guy who very nearly killed himself fucking around with drugs due to his depression, who is now much happier that he told someone what he had done and was pointed at the right treatments.
But also all this is pretty fucking irrelevant, since depression and distress are obvious problematic issues and the DSM IV on low libido (i.e. asexuality) is that it's not clinically relevant unless it causes depression or distress.
I'm not sure that "fetishism with an unidentified fetish" is a meaningful concept.
A fetish is something that takes the fetishist's attention. If the fetishist isn't giving it attention, how can be a fetish?
If you have a particular fetish then surely it has to be discovered.
Discovered, or developed?
You make it sound as though there are people with little or no sex drive who are merrily going through their lives until one day they discover shoes.
When it's more like you start with a relatively normal sexual appetite but with a fascination for the particular fetish object, that fascination is reinforced through sex or masturbatory fantasies, or intense sexual or traumatic experiences, until the fetish overwhelms the person's sexuality.
I agree that you can discover an interest. You can come across a sexual practice or paraphilia and go "hey, that is interesting!" But for it to develop in a full-blown psychiatric fetish requires reinforcement.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Posts
I wouldn't
but some one else might
and what business of mine is it to judge them?
I'll be honest, I'm trying to work out my own feelings on neuro-diversity here. A friend of mine runs an autism/disability rights lobbying group, and we were talking a lot over the weekend. I haven't been the biggest fan of neuro-diversity in the past, but he made some good points.
If we make strict judgements as to what is "okay" and what is "wrong", even if we think we're doing it to help people, we are going to make things even more difficult for the people who simply do not want help.
I also feel that there SHOULD be treatments and the like available for those who DO want them (some of the extreme end of the neuro-diversity crowd seems to oppose this notion.)
What I'm taking away, though, is that if it is possible for some one to function within our society, despite being atypical, as long as people are willing to reasonably accommodate them, then I think that if they want to remain atypical, they should not be looked down upon for that.
that sounds good to me
No one in this thread has seriously been looking down on asexuals. Many question the existence or scope of their existence (this is me, and it's mostly definitional), others are simply boggled by the notion. I don't think anyone is seriously saying "man those people must be treated! Quick, let's send them to sex camps!"
I do think the language limitations of the internet are making it seem more hostile then it is intended.
Certainly. Someone whose life is an absolute horrible and painful mess filled with excrutiating memories may also likely spend the rest of their life with the psychological burden if we don't let them kill themselves. It's not at all easy to draw the line.
depression =/= suicidal tendancies
The others are of course that you generally let your life go to hell through apathy, but actually a big problem in the treatment of depression is the perception of it being "cool" to be depressed in the sense that people look at various great artists who suffered from depression and see there being a stoicism in it rather then seeking treatment.
More importantly however, depression is rather characterized by the inability to make a choice in a sound state of mind. I know of no one who has beaten depression and said "yeah I was happier when I was depressed". I do know of a guy who very nearly killed himself fucking around with drugs due to his depression, who is now much happier that he told someone what he had done and was pointed at the right treatments.
But also all this is pretty fucking irrelevant, since depression and distress are obvious problematic issues and the DSM IV on low libido (i.e. asexuality) is that it's not clinically relevant unless it causes depression or distress.
Discovered, or developed?
You make it sound as though there are people with little or no sex drive who are merrily going through their lives until one day they discover shoes.
When it's more like you start with a relatively normal sexual appetite but with a fascination for the particular fetish object, that fascination is reinforced through sex or masturbatory fantasies, or intense sexual or traumatic experiences, until the fetish overwhelms the person's sexuality.
I agree that you can discover an interest. You can come across a sexual practice or paraphilia and go "hey, that is interesting!" But for it to develop in a full-blown psychiatric fetish requires reinforcement.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.