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[Star Wars X-Wing] Wave 7 and New Core in stores! PA Vassal League Season 3 now forming!

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    DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    Using the generic HWK for a comparison is kinda weird because, well, you shouldn't ever use the generic HWK. A support ship without any support abilities is a terrible investment, I agree! Fortunately there are still good cheap options, for example:

    Roark + an Ion Turret is 24 points, which is one more point than a Y-wing with two lower pilot skill and the same secondary weapon. The HWK is less maneuverable and has a little less survivability, but unlike the Y it doesn't need to get close at all to affect the battle.

    if you're seriously worried about losing firepower, 24 points is hardly a huge investment. you can squeeze a B in there too and still come in as cheap or cheaper than a Han Falcon, with actually more firepower between the two ships, the same total health (but less each of course) and less potential to get blocked.

    So pointswise I consider those pretty even trades!

    The HWK doesn't see a whole lot of competitive use but it's not like it's going to sink your list if it's designed intelligently. I've used it in a couple of competitions and I do pretty decent.

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    WibodWibod Registered User regular
    I'm in agreement that you shouldn't ever use the generic HWK which says a lot about the ship when the game has had low PS generics be fairly dominant for roughly 2 and a half years. Obviously different types of ships, but I think that even the generic support ship should bring something useful to the table.

    My question to you then would be; is that extra point spent on Roark worth losing initiative over, or dropping another upgrade to maintain initiative?

    The comparison to a Han falcon is a bit more complicated in my mind as Roark and B-wing have more combined firepower, but Han has better fire coverage. Even then a lot of Falcon lists are criticized for being weak offensively/lacking one pass kill ability which is key to most Rebel 3/4 ship builds.

    I'm interested in seeing what you've tried though.

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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    It is interesting to read about, but I don't put much stock in tournament results.
    Total attendance to Regionals this year was right around 2000 players. Too few to draw useful conclusions from - especially when huge swathes of the community are simply aping a vocal minority.
    Just because it's not showing up in top 8's right now doesn't mean it's not competitive or can't be. It's not fashionable. That's most of it. Experience suggests to me that the HWK-290 is cost effective in many of it's roles.
    Maybe next week someone figures out that Jan or Roark is exactly what they need to win the ubiquitous Falcon mirror match.
    The meta is fluid and unstable, not chiseled in stone.



    For example, here's a random take on the hot list on the moment;

    Outer Rim Smuggler
    Luke
    C3PO
    Engine Upgrade

    Jan Ors
    Decoy or Swarm Tactics
    Blaster Turret
    Recon Specialist

    Bandit Squadron x2



    2 fewer HP than a typical Falcon + 3x Z-95 list, but it throws one more attack dice and has stronger action economy. The ORS will still have opportunities to shoot before Chewbaca due to Jan, hits just as hard, but sacrifices fewer points if it goes down and will never, ever lose it's action to being blocked and so will always have an evade or focus available. Meanwhile Jan with Recon Specialist is substantially tougher to shoot down than a generic Z-95, and not really that much less mobile.

    Are there disadvantages here? Sure. But there are advantages too!

    Sokpuppet on
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    DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    I think the problem the HWK runs into is that if you put too many points into it, it means you neuter the rest of your team a little. So here's a list I used for Imdar Alpha that doesn't really sacrifice too much in return:

    Biggs (25)
    Hobbie + R3-A2 (27)
    Roark + ICT (24)
    Blue Squadron Pilot + Fire Control (24)

    this was basically meant to strike a nice balance between different roles and function with or without any one pilot. Hobbie is the obvious target but with Biggs he stays around longer, Roark can boost anyone to 12 and just generally keeps the list's pilot skill to above 4, which was the average I was shooting for ( 12, 5, 5, 4 on a good turn). That means everyone is shooting before most of any given tie swarm and most of any given rebel list, usually. The ability to hit enemies with stress and ion shots helped control expensive or maneuverable targets, and I could fit three named pilots into a list without dropping down to just three ships.

    The Blue Squadron pilot was basically just a closer. It was my first time using the B-wing (and Hobbie, but he has a pretty obvious gimmick), so I wanted to go with something basic that would be dangerous even if I was a little clumsy.

    It went pretty well!

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I just signed up for an Amazon Visa card and they gave me $30 free. So I did this......

    k7ok2ntsw2nc.png

    Now the fiance and I will have to stop at the local game store next to the movie theater today and pick up an Imperial ship. You know, to make it fair and all. :D

    This will make my new ship count:

    X-wing x3
    Y-Wing x1
    B-Wing x1
    TIE-Fighter x5
    TIE-Advance x1
    TIE-Bomber x1
    TIE-Interceptor x1 (after game store visit)

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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Played in a tournament today. First day of a 2 day event.
    Currently seeded 3rd going in to top 8 tomorrow.
    My first opponent - another top 8 player - was flying Roark with a Falcon and 2 Z-95's, handing me my only defeat of the day in a close match.
    1jikm5p0g0fa.jpg

    Highlights include ioning a mostly intact Firespray off the board with a single well timed shot;
    Also ordering my green dice to, "OBEY"... and having all three of them listen. B)


    Learned some interesting things about flying the Defender.
    As everybody already knows, this ship is capable of surviving at least a little bit of focus fire. What is less well understood is what this lets you do.
    One of the worst sins you can commit in a game of X-wing is to divide your fire. The Defender capitalizes on this magically. It can soak a couple of crucial attacks on the first joust, then vanish like smoke out to the fringes of the battle and snipe. Meanwhile the rest of your squadron is hale, hearty, and fixing for trouble.
    It's like... the worst thing you can do is to focus on the Defender... but the other worst thing you can do is to leave it around for the endgame.


    Another interesting thing is the Ion Cannon. You don't necessarily try to keep things locked down constantly. You use it tactically, and for reliable plinking at range 3.
    Example: Today I took a potshot at a Bounty Hunter fairly early in the game, landing an Ion Token on it. Instead of immediately trying to ion it again the following turn, I left that token where it was and did other things.
    Fast-forward to several turns later; the Bounty Hunter is nearing a board edge. Not really very close at all - about two full range increments. Nearly eight inches.
    Well, I plinked him again with the Ion Cannon and that was it. A 1-forward movement in that situation leaves the Firespray with no survivable maneuvers on it's next turn.

    I would like to say it was planned...
    Next time, it will be.

    Sokpuppet on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Got in a couple of really simple (42 points of TIEs and X-wings) games tonight with a friend. He definitely seems like a convert, though I think he'll be wanting to play with my stuff instead of investing in his own for a while, but that's fine.

    Won't get another game for a couple of weeks, though, since he'll be out of town.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    So the local store didn't have any TIE-Interceptors in stock, so my fiance had a choice between the Defender and the Phantom. After describing them to her, she was leaning towards the Defender.

    We take it up to the register, and the guy starts unloading facts and details about the ships, pilots, and cards contained within. What's worse, is my fiance is no slouch and he's giving her valuable combo ideas to use against me.

    But it's all good, at least she plays the game with me and enjoys it. Can't ask for more than that! :)

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    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Yup I managed to Ion a firespray off the board from right beside an asteroid, which means it was at range 2 from the edge, but he faced it directly toward the corner, so once I got the second token on him that thing was done, even though it took it two turns. He did get to shoot at me though.

    IWBRLjC.png
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    @Sokpuppet what's the list you were running, out of curiosity?

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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Two Alpha Squadron Pilots, Night Beast, Dark Curse, and a Delta with an Ion Cannon.
    Wasn't really the list I had intended to run, but it has been performing well despite a few learner's-permit type mistakes with the Delta.

    MVP to Dark Curse. He is an uncaring, unflinching Z-95 murder machine.

    Sokpuppet on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Defender with an Ion Cannon has peaked my interest as well. I'm not sure how to make the best use of it, however, since that is a ton of ship to drop into a build.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    My feeling is that it would pair well with Backstabber and/or Black Squadron TIEs fitted with Outmaneuver.

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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    I would just play Interceptors, just because I love Interceptors.

    I might lose but I'm gonna look awesome while losing.

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I had considered that.

    Delta + Ion Cannon
    Backstabber
    Black Squadron + Outmaneuver
    Echo + Advanced Cloaking Device

    The other Defender build I've been looking at is probably even sillier;

    Onyx + Heavy Laser
    Onyx + Heavy Laser
    Captain Jonus (TIE Bomber)

    Running a bomber with no ordinance is kind of weird, but 4 attack dice rerolling 2 is pretty hardcore.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Quick question since I'm now the proud owner of Ion Tokens, why would you have more than one on a ship? So this card gives you two:

    XNkL26p.png


    But then, the Ion Token rules say to discard all Ion Tokens:

    YlIx1Kr.png

    So what's the point of having an extra token? Are there pilots/skills that can remove a token that I don't know about? Should the rules card read "remove 1 token" instead?

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    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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    MegaMekMegaMek Girls like girls. Registered User regular
    Large ships ignore 1 ion token.

    Is time a gift or punishment?
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    MegaMek wrote: »
    Large ships ignore 1 ion token.

    Yeah, I just read that while looking at a FAQ. Guess that means those missiles are useless most of the time. :)

    Also, here's a listing of all the cards in the game released so far. Could we add it to the OP @mightyspacepope‌?

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    MegaMek wrote: »
    Large ships ignore 1 ion token.

    Yeah, I just read that while looking at a FAQ. Guess that means those missiles are useless most of the time. :)

    Nah, they aren't useless because ionizing a small ship is tactically good as well. It just means you can use them effectively on a large ship as well.

    Anyway here's a little list I made that I haven't tried yet. I don't know, probably should drop the second Phantom from the list but I just love 'em so much.

    Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30
    Ion Cannon 3

    "Echo" — TIE Phantom 30
    Veteran Instincts 1
    Advanced Cloaking Device 4

    Shadow Squadron Pilot — TIE Phantom 27
    Advanced Sensors 3
    Stygium Particle Accelerator 2


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    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Oh hey, new resources:
    Buy single upgrade cards and loose ships:
    http://teamcovenant.com/store/star-wars-x-wing-2/singles.html

    The Xwing Wiki, pictures of all cards in the game:
    http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/X-Wing_Miniatures_Wiki

    IWBRLjC.png
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I realized the other day that I thought I had 5 TIE-Fighters, but in fact, only have 4 (all from the base set). So now I'm stuck deciding on whether to get the TIE-Fighter expansion. I don't need an extra TIE, as I seriously doubt my fiance will want to run a vanilla swarm when there are other fun ships to play instead.

    Everywhere I've looked online (ebay, etc) sells the pilot/upgrade cards for way too much money after shipping. I suppose I could always print them, but it's just not quite the same, ya' know? Any thoughts?

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Just get the expansion, ya goof. The pilots are all good and you think you don't need 5 TIES but you totally will for Epic play.

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    WibodWibod Registered User regular
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    UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Bros before Does Rollin' in the thlayRegistered User regular
    I have 6 TIES which means I can't run either of the the traditional 7-8 TIE swarms but I think having at least 5 gives options for running a squad of Unique pilots or create a large support element for a more powerful ship (Vader, a Defender, Shuttle, etc). It's fun to be able to fly a bunch of TIEs every so often.

    Don't know what the unique pilot cards/tokens sell for, but I'd say a TIE expansion is worth it for the 3 of them and the extra TIE.

    Also, Dash Rendar pilot card:
    dash-rendar-crew.png

    So Dash as a pilot can land on Obstacles without taking damage, while Dash as a crew can land on obstacles and still shoot.

    hmm.gif
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Good preview but show us more of the Decimator!

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    Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I just signed up for an Amazon Visa card and they gave me $30 free. So I did this......
    I freaking looooooove the bomber. I don't know why more people don't fly with one. At the last tournament, everyone seemed shocked that I was running one. They are a ton of fun and really throw a monkey wrench into some play styles. The only thing that can suck with Bombers is that if you don't exhaust at least 2/3 of your payload, it's a total waste and you'll get your arse kicked.

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
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    Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    As cool as the GripMats are, I cannot justify spending $50 on a 2x3 mat. I'm a bit of a cheap skate, so this has given me the idea of getting those this grip sheets that you put down for putting plates and glasses in the cupboard and roll that across the paying area. Same effect, no where near as kick ass looking, but 1/10th the price

    Le_Goat on
    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
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    wonderpugwonderpug Registered User regular
    Le_Goat wrote: »
    As cool as the GripMats are, I cannot justify spending $50 on a 2x3 mat. I'm a bit of a cheap skate, so this has given me the idea of getting those this grip sheets that you put down for putting plates and glasses in the cupboard and roll that across the paying area. Same effect, no where near as kick ass looking, but 1/10th the price

    You must feel the kitchen non-slip mat around you: here, between you, me, the asteroid tokens, everywhere, yes, even between the dining table and the ship base.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    3x3 mat, not 2x3.

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    Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    3x3 mat, not 2x3.
    Odd, according to their store, only the Xia Quadrant is 3x3 and it's sold out. Starfield is 2x3, Nebula is 2x3.5, and Oceanfield is 2x2. I totally could be looking in the wrong place.

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Oh that's right, they're more expensive now than if you Kickstarted it.

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Le_Goat wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    3x3 mat, not 2x3.
    Odd, according to their store, only the Xia Quadrant is 3x3 and it's sold out. Starfield is 2x3, Nebula is 2x3.5, and Oceanfield is 2x2. I totally could be looking in the wrong place.

    The store is, I think, a bit out-of-date with their eventual plans for what will be available. If you kickstarted it, you could get bascially any art done at any size, and I'd expect those to make it to the store in not too much longer (couple months, probably).

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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    So how dumb am I? I was at my Friendly Not-So-Local Gaming Store, and while they only had a single Z-95 in stock, they had E-wings shooting out the ying yang. Being the kind soul that I am, I said, 'shopkeep, I shall lay claim to three of your finest E-wings!'

    So now I have 3 E-wings, which really only look like if you cut everything off the ship that doesn't look like an E. I definitely had some fun using them right there in the store in a 3 player Furball game, and I've been playing around with how to put three of them into a hundred point list.

    Just with some fiddling around and no games to to field test it, I've got:

    -Knave Squadron Pilot w/R7-T1 and Flechette Torpedoes

    -Blackmoon Squadron w/FCS and Proton Torpedoes

    -Etahn A'Baht w/Deadeye

    Which brings me in at 100 points even. Is this setup not too pants-on-head to be fun?

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    RendRend Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    While I was away, I received a package.

    2014-08-05

    Yes, release your anger.

    I now have: 4 fighters, 1 interceptor, 1 bomber, 1 phantom, and 1 defender on the imperial side.

    Rend on
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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    So how dumb am I? I was at my Friendly Not-So-Local Gaming Store, and while they only had a single Z-95 in stock, they had E-wings shooting out the ying yang. Being the kind soul that I am, I said, 'shopkeep, I shall lay claim to three of your finest E-wings!'

    So now I have 3 E-wings, which really only look like if you cut everything off the ship that doesn't look like an E. I definitely had some fun using them right there in the store in a 3 player Furball game, and I've been playing around with how to put three of them into a hundred point list.

    Just with some fiddling around and no games to to field test it, I've got:

    -Knave Squadron Pilot w/R7-T1 and Flechette Torpedoes

    -Blackmoon Squadron w/FCS and Proton Torpedoes

    -Etahn A'Baht w/Deadeye

    Which brings me in at 100 points even. Is this setup not too pants-on-head to be fun?

    Looks fun to me, but you'll want to juggle some things around. Deadeye doesn't do anything with no torpedo on Etahn A'Baht for instance.

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    kaidkaid Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I haven't bought any Y-Wings yet, but they are next on the list. Are they really that useless or just too niche?

    I have not played this game a ton but my Y-wings have performed pretty well for me in play. Make sure to take a missile of some sort and probably an ion turret. Their normal lasers are unlikely to kill tie fighters but with a good missile they are good ways to hurt or kill enemy big ships. They take an insane amount of beating to kill and are pretty cheap to field.

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    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2014
    -Knave Squadron Pilot w/R7-T1 and Flechette Torpedoes

    -Blackmoon Squadron w/FCS and Proton Torpedoes

    -Etahn A'Baht w/Deadeye

    Which brings me in at 100 points even. Is this setup not too pants-on-head to be fun?

    That's kinda bad. As noted deadeye does nothing. R7-T1 is weird on a 1 skill ship, as are torpedoes, because you probably wont be able to use them.

    If you wanted something similar I would suggest this list:

    -Knave Squadron Pilot

    -Etahn A'baht w/Wingman

    -Corran Horn w/R7 and FCS

    Wingman is the only way for this list to get rid of excess stress, but you can switch it for any other 2 pt upgrade if you don't see a lot of stress shenanigans. R7 is VERY useful with FCS on a high skill ship, and with Corran Horn you can use FCS twice in the same turn, then during his "can't attack" turn Focus and still have the defensive target lock.

    ElderCat on
    IWBRLjC.png
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    Dead-Eye was a misunderstanding - I thought it meant you could turn Focus into a Target Lock for normal shooting too.

    You're going to have to explain your reasoning about the droid and the torpedoes though. The range differentiation means it's going to take work to try and lock-on and stay beyond range 1, but for a dog-fighting ship, getting target lock and boosting when somebody else is trying to shoot you seems like a handy ability.

    Or is the thinking that if you're not spending the target lock the same turn you're acquiring it, you're not making efficient use of your abilities?

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    RendRend Registered User regular
    Dead-Eye was a misunderstanding - I thought it meant you could turn Focus into a Target Lock for normal shooting too.

    You're going to have to explain your reasoning about the droid and the torpedoes though. The range differentiation means it's going to take work to try and lock-on and stay beyond range 1, but for a dog-fighting ship, getting target lock and boosting when somebody else is trying to shoot you seems like a handy ability.

    Or is the thinking that if you're not spending the target lock the same turn you're acquiring it, you're not making efficient use of your abilities?

    I think the problem they are alluding to is that a low skill pilot with valuable gear like torpedoes is going to get focus fired to death too quickly to launch the payload, though I might be mistaken about that.

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    ElderCatElderCat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    As for the droid, at skill 1 you are usually going first. You don't know where the other ships are going to be, so you have to guess which ship to target lock and where to boost to. If it was a high skill ship you would at least have some knowledge of where some ships would be so you could target lock one you will be able to shoot, and potentially boost out of some firing arcs.

    On torpedoes, again with skill 1 you move first each round. This means that you cannot be in range to target lock on the first turn. And on the second turn again you have to guess, the ship you target locked can move out of your arc or close to within 1. Both will make it so you cannot fire the torpedoes.

    IWBRLjC.png
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