Which, given it's alpha and they'll wipe all our gold at least once more, shouldn't really upset anyone but I do wish I'd saved up to buy another hero instead of getting the last couple of % on an artifact! ;-)
The only changes are the removal of artifacts and the xp adjustments, which will probably jump some of your heroes up a level or two. It's a dark time to play mana-hungry heroes.
To be honest, I'm actually pretty okay with no Path talents. It means you can opt for picking more utility based level 1 talents. It does kind of suck for Supports though, especially mana-heavy ones. But ultimately I think it's better for the game.
To be honest, I'm actually pretty okay with no Path talents. It means you can opt for picking more utility based level 1 talents. It does kind of suck for Supports though, especially mana-heavy ones. But ultimately I think it's better for the game.
They just need to do a balancing pass on mana and regen. (Which they won't)
i was about to post asking if anyone tried the +40% trinket with arthas/diablo. was curious whether it beat out the +5% move speed. guess that doesn't matter anymore (thankfully). glad the artifacts are gone.
blizzard could've made them interesting by making it +X stat -Y stat or using them to drastically change how things work on a given hero. however i am not sure it would've added anything that couldn't be accomplished via talents even if they went that route and it still potentially adds all the issues that the current/former iteration had, or introduced it';s own set of issues since they would need to be universal and it'd create a nightmare for balancing.
even though i spent all of the stimulus gold and then some maxing them out i'll survive and it isn't a big deal.
if nothing else this proves that this really is an alpha. everything about the artifacts and how they talked about it when first released sounds like they just had the idea, coded it, and dropped it out there to try ASAP. given the public scrutiny as a result of the alpha format i wonder how this bodes for future games.
the changes they made to firestorm taking it from 50% to 150% per fire wave is part of why diablo was turbobroken, unkillable and highest damage character in the game short of hammer and valla. i expect to see firestorm get huge changes next patch.
i do wish they added path of the wizard back in or just rebalanced mana regen temporarily, nova is going to be roughhhhhh without either.
Honestly, I think Tyrande is tied with Abathur for sheer complexity.
In the right hands, Tyrande can wreck a team worse than almost any other character. She is AMAZING in the hands of a skilled, experienced player.
But she also has the capacity to be dead weight on the team. She is a highly nuanced hero, and to be effective you have to understand those nuances. She is not an archer hero. That's Valla. She is not a healer. That's 3 or 4 other heroes.
She fills a very niche role, and in the right hands I have seen good Tyrandes do things that nobody else can do. I fear a well played Tyrande.
Note: I suck with Tyrande and I envy the people greatly who can do what I cannot. I'm one of those people who makes Tyrande look like a crap hero. But I know she has the potential to be awesome because I've been on the receiving end of a Tyrande-given asskicking.
Out of curiosity, what exactly does a an AMAZING Tyrande do to make her that way? I think the best Tyrande I ever fought against would only be considered the best because she was pretty spot on with her Starfalls. I've dabbled with her but I'm quite unsure as to how she could be AMAZING.
Also, what are 'Path of' talents? Are those the 'get orbs to increase x' talents?
EDIT: Also, I'm really surprised but happy to see them move quickly (for Blizzard) at removing the artifacts and tweaking talent gating, though I am still slightly upset they didn't just remove talent gating altogether. I don't think there was anything too horrible about the old system of reaching a certain account level.
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Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
path of the wizard which gave +0.1 mana regen per second and... some amount of mana i forget per level
path of the warrior was 25 hp per level
path of the assassin was 2 basic attack damage per level
path of the wizard was almost mandatory on supports and nova where it was offered because they are super mana hungry and mana dependent. you were supposed to replicate those effects with artifacts, but now they're just gone.
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i c, i c.
For the Tyrael players, what's the general consensus on ult? I've been going w/ sanctification because holy shit an invulnerable team, sound awesome, but it seems like I just get blown up as soon as I cast it, or the enemy just runs away. It seems like it's most useful effect would be to maybe help a low health teammate that's trying to run away. Starting to think his charge might be the way to go. Someone point me in the right direction here.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
For the Tyrael players, what's the general consensus on ult? I've been going w/ sanctification because holy shit an invulnerable team, sound awesome, but it seems like I just get blown up as soon as I cast it, or the enemy just runs away. It seems like it's most useful effect would be to maybe help a low health teammate that's trying to run away. Starting to think his charge might be the way to go. Someone point me in the right direction here.
i've only played tyreal a few times, but judgement fucks up all sorts of shit. it's free kills on characters like nova, and gives you incredible initiation power in teamfights.
For the Tyrael players, what's the general consensus on ult? I've been going w/ sanctification because holy shit an invulnerable team, sound awesome, but it seems like I just get blown up as soon as I cast it, or the enemy just runs away. It seems like it's most useful effect would be to maybe help a low health teammate that's trying to run away. Starting to think his charge might be the way to go. Someone point me in the right direction here.
i've only played tyreal a few times, but judgement fucks up all sorts of shit. it's free kills on characters like nova, and gives you incredible initiation power in teamfights.
Judgement all day, every day. Huge damage, 2 second stun, AND knockback on other nearby enemies. Ridiculously good engage which usually leads to a kill on your preferred target. Swings team fights in a major way.
On a side note, I've been playing with Haymaker on Muradin over Avatar. I like it quite a bit. It has a lot of utility, way more than mini stuns and more health. Fun fact: You can actually Haymaker someone through your tower gate. And similar to Stitches' Gorge, that usually leads to a free kill.
On a side note, I've been playing with Haymaker on Muradin over Avatar. I like it quite a bit. It has a lot of utility, way more than mini stuns and more health. Fun fact: You can actually Haymaker someone through your tower gate. And similar to Stitches' Gorge, that usually leads to a free kill.
I've regularly haymaker'd opponents out of capture points in order to score merc caps and dragon shrines. It's wonderful.
Honestly, I think Tyrande is tied with Abathur for sheer complexity.
In the right hands, Tyrande can wreck a team worse than almost any other character. She is AMAZING in the hands of a skilled, experienced player.
But she also has the capacity to be dead weight on the team. She is a highly nuanced hero, and to be effective you have to understand those nuances. She is not an archer hero. That's Valla. She is not a healer. That's 3 or 4 other heroes.
She fills a very niche role, and in the right hands I have seen good Tyrandes do things that nobody else can do. I fear a well played Tyrande.
Note: I suck with Tyrande and I envy the people greatly who can do what I cannot. I'm one of those people who makes Tyrande look like a crap hero. But I know she has the potential to be awesome because I've been on the receiving end of a Tyrande-given asskicking.
Out of curiosity, what exactly does a an AMAZING Tyrande do to make her that way? I think the best Tyrande I ever fought against would only be considered the best because she was pretty spot on with her Starfalls. I've dabbled with her but I'm quite unsure as to how she could be AMAZING.
Also, what are 'Path of' talents? Are those the 'get orbs to increase x' talents?
EDIT: Also, I'm really surprised but happy to see them move quickly (for Blizzard) at removing the artifacts and tweaking talent gating, though I am still slightly upset they didn't just remove talent gating altogether. I don't think there was anything too horrible about the old system of reaching a certain account level.
so an amazing tyrande does several things
1. co-ordinates burst with her lane partner, landing all of her damage skills along with her partner's while their target takes 25% more damage
2. utilizes her W for map vision to keep tabs on missing lane opponents and spot enemies mercing
3. positions herself for objectives where her aura will do the most damage - when you have the choice between solo laning with tyrande or leaving that lane xp to help a seige, what's the correct move? do your allies benefit more from the increased AD, or the seige minions marching down your lane? these are decisions not really made by other supports
4. lands her cc. duh.
5. knows when she shouldn't be healing her lane opponent up - having enough mana to drop her E-W on someone with her D up is way more important than topping off an ally
6. and some other general stuff you just expect players to be good at
a lot of tyrande's power is invisible. even the things people remember reciting in the thread are things like cross-map W snipes, because those things are flashy. tyrande is strong because she turns the tankiest enemy into the squishiest, because she stops ambushes, because she lands screen-length cc. tyrande isn't a support who sits around and heals people, tyrande is a support who exists as more of a tactician, seeking to control the flow of a fight and focus your team where they are the strongest. sometimes this doesn't win games. sometimes when you have a braindead assassin who fights when they shouldn't you need raw healing output instead of clever abilities. but with a competent team a tyrande is one of the most dangerous supports there is.
To be honest, I'm actually pretty okay with no Path talents. It means you can opt for picking more utility based level 1 talents. It does kind of suck for Supports though, especially mana-heavy ones. But ultimately I think it's better for the game.
They just need to do a balancing pass on mana and regen. (Which they won't)
That is some fair amount of negativity right there.
While the ones that are smart enough to stay in the back and snipe are still rather broken in damage, it feels super super cathartic to beat the shit out of overaggressive hammers that think they're still tanky.
So I'm finally back to mostly a somewhat stable life.
I haven't even loaded the game since before artifacts even came in (so my posts were all speculative).
But man, gotta say we shouldn't be as butthurt as some posts appear since really, it's just alpha. Shit's going to be wonky for a while. I know we've said this before that it's super polished and all for an alpha and we have some expectations because of real $, but keep in mind when the game does actually come out (blizzard soon), it'll be so god damned polished that the days of LoL having 90% of the moba scene will seem like a joke that no one gets because this game is obviously so damn better and it'd be just plain silly to ever think it was different.
We might all have grand kids by then but hell, we'll be able to scare them with horror stories of LoL communities or official blizzard forums.
i dunno if we should label this game a lol killer we all know how well that works out for wow killers
also, no, once you are making a product you do not get to excuse it by saying it is not done. it is a product. blizzard may not be selling it to the mass market but they are presenting a product, and i have the right to call it a piece of shit when it is a piece of shit, no matter how much people who think they like the game but haven't played it yet say i should be thankful to play it
If people weren't loudly butthurt all over the forums, Artifacts probably wouldn't have been removed. Blizzard added it to the alpha because they needed to see what the public response to it would be.
If people weren't loudly butthurt all over the forums, Artifacts probably wouldn't have been removed. Blizzard added it to the alpha because they needed to see what the public response to it would be.
Yea this is maybe the one time the official forums have accomplished something good, that's how bad there system was
leveling is a lot better now, if you're playing versus on the weekend or with a friend it should be a game per level at worst, a good game with friend on a weekend could probably get you all 3 levels in one go if it took a long time, i've gotten over 300k at once before.
@MMmig and I rolled some people with a 5-man premade team. My apologies to anyone else from here that was on that team that I didn't give a shout out to.
I love Tyrael, and I can't wait for his Master Skin to be put in the game.
@Darklite_x Everything that was said above is correct. Tyrande's greatest strength is setting up her team for big plays. I cannot stress enough how significant a ranged, targeted stun is. But that's not all she offers. Scouting, damage amp, invisibility bring a lot to the team also. I've played against a 5-man premade that put her team-invis to great use. They setup some killer ambushes and used it to travel across lanes without us knowing where they were.
Regarding Tyrael, I'm not a fan of Sanctification. It has too many downsides to be good. I'm sure when the game gets to beta and balance becomes their chief concern, it will be made better. But right now, the list of downsides include:
-Removing the tank from combat
-Small radius of effect
-All of a sudden you become the focus of all incoming fire
I'm not a fan of Uther's Divine Shield either. It doesn't have a long enough duration, and it has too long of a cooldown. I feel like taking Divine Storm is so much better of a choice, that it makes the Shield no choice at all.
i challenge you to find a character in hots that is more of a tank than hammer
I'd still rather fight Hammer than Diablo. I just suck against Diablo. Anyone on right now that wants to suffer through a few games of me trying to get better at Abathur?
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
I'll be on I'm about three hours if you are still on then :P
Happy to help with Abathur training too, he's still one of my favorite heroes
I could have sworn I'd played enough games w/ him to have all his talents unlocked, but I guess not. I feel like I'm doing better w/ him every game I play, but I still have a long way to go before I'm great at him. I think that's why I like him so much. His playstyle is so different from any other MOBA char I've ever played.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
@MMmig and I rolled some people with a 5-man premade team. My apologies to anyone else from here that was on that team that I didn't give a shout out to.
I love Tyrael, and I can't wait for his Master Skin to be put in the game.
@Darklite_x Everything that was said above is correct. Tyrande's greatest strength is setting up her team for big plays. I cannot stress enough how significant a ranged, targeted stun is. But that's not all she offers. Scouting, damage amp, invisibility bring a lot to the team also. I've played against a 5-man premade that put her team-invis to great use. They setup some killer ambushes and used it to travel across lanes without us knowing where they were.
Regarding Tyrael, I'm not a fan of Sanctification. It has too many downsides to be good. I'm sure when the game gets to beta and balance becomes their chief concern, it will be made better. But right now, the list of downsides include:
-Removing the tank from combat
-Small radius of effect
-All of a sudden you become the focus of all incoming fire
I'm not a fan of Uther's Divine Shield either. It doesn't have a long enough duration, and it has too long of a cooldown. I feel like taking Divine Storm is so much better of a choice, that it makes the Shield no choice at all.
Tyrande's cloak-heal is actually really good, a lot better than people give it credit for, yeah. I played a few games with some PA folk a while back (this was before the Artifact/Talent Gating patch) and capitalized pretty well on it. I was Kerrigan with a Tyrande helping me attack a fort, and there was an enemy Valla dancing around back taking pot shots at us. I told the Tyrande to cloak me, and then I moved in between the fort and tower and was able to kill the Valla. It was pretty great.
Granted, in pub games, the extra movespeed is generally the way to go. You can't rely on/expect pubbies to take full advantage of the cloak. In a coordinated team, though, cloak heal can be devastating.
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Ouch. That's gonna sting.
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Which, given it's alpha and they'll wipe all our gold at least once more, shouldn't really upset anyone but I do wish I'd saved up to buy another hero instead of getting the last couple of % on an artifact! ;-)
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
They just need to do a balancing pass on mana and regen. (Which they won't)
blizzard could've made them interesting by making it +X stat -Y stat or using them to drastically change how things work on a given hero. however i am not sure it would've added anything that couldn't be accomplished via talents even if they went that route and it still potentially adds all the issues that the current/former iteration had, or introduced it';s own set of issues since they would need to be universal and it'd create a nightmare for balancing.
even though i spent all of the stimulus gold and then some maxing them out i'll survive and it isn't a big deal.
if nothing else this proves that this really is an alpha. everything about the artifacts and how they talked about it when first released sounds like they just had the idea, coded it, and dropped it out there to try ASAP. given the public scrutiny as a result of the alpha format i wonder how this bodes for future games.
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i do wish they added path of the wizard back in or just rebalanced mana regen temporarily, nova is going to be roughhhhhh without either.
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Don't worry, Sgt. Hammer and Valla are still broken even with artifacts gone.
Out of curiosity, what exactly does a an AMAZING Tyrande do to make her that way? I think the best Tyrande I ever fought against would only be considered the best because she was pretty spot on with her Starfalls. I've dabbled with her but I'm quite unsure as to how she could be AMAZING.
Also, what are 'Path of' talents? Are those the 'get orbs to increase x' talents?
EDIT: Also, I'm really surprised but happy to see them move quickly (for Blizzard) at removing the artifacts and tweaking talent gating, though I am still slightly upset they didn't just remove talent gating altogether. I don't think there was anything too horrible about the old system of reaching a certain account level.
path of the wizard which gave +0.1 mana regen per second and... some amount of mana i forget per level
path of the warrior was 25 hp per level
path of the assassin was 2 basic attack damage per level
path of the wizard was almost mandatory on supports and nova where it was offered because they are super mana hungry and mana dependent. you were supposed to replicate those effects with artifacts, but now they're just gone.
For the Tyrael players, what's the general consensus on ult? I've been going w/ sanctification because holy shit an invulnerable team, sound awesome, but it seems like I just get blown up as soon as I cast it, or the enemy just runs away. It seems like it's most useful effect would be to maybe help a low health teammate that's trying to run away. Starting to think his charge might be the way to go. Someone point me in the right direction here.
i've only played tyreal a few times, but judgement fucks up all sorts of shit. it's free kills on characters like nova, and gives you incredible initiation power in teamfights.
Judgement all day, every day. Huge damage, 2 second stun, AND knockback on other nearby enemies. Ridiculously good engage which usually leads to a kill on your preferred target. Swings team fights in a major way.
On a side note, I've been playing with Haymaker on Muradin over Avatar. I like it quite a bit. It has a lot of utility, way more than mini stuns and more health. Fun fact: You can actually Haymaker someone through your tower gate. And similar to Stitches' Gorge, that usually leads to a free kill.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I've regularly haymaker'd opponents out of capture points in order to score merc caps and dragon shrines. It's wonderful.
so an amazing tyrande does several things
1. co-ordinates burst with her lane partner, landing all of her damage skills along with her partner's while their target takes 25% more damage
2. utilizes her W for map vision to keep tabs on missing lane opponents and spot enemies mercing
3. positions herself for objectives where her aura will do the most damage - when you have the choice between solo laning with tyrande or leaving that lane xp to help a seige, what's the correct move? do your allies benefit more from the increased AD, or the seige minions marching down your lane? these are decisions not really made by other supports
4. lands her cc. duh.
5. knows when she shouldn't be healing her lane opponent up - having enough mana to drop her E-W on someone with her D up is way more important than topping off an ally
6. and some other general stuff you just expect players to be good at
a lot of tyrande's power is invisible. even the things people remember reciting in the thread are things like cross-map W snipes, because those things are flashy. tyrande is strong because she turns the tankiest enemy into the squishiest, because she stops ambushes, because she lands screen-length cc. tyrande isn't a support who sits around and heals people, tyrande is a support who exists as more of a tactician, seeking to control the flow of a fight and focus your team where they are the strongest. sometimes this doesn't win games. sometimes when you have a braindead assassin who fights when they shouldn't you need raw healing output instead of clever abilities. but with a competent team a tyrande is one of the most dangerous supports there is.
That is some fair amount of negativity right there.
I haven't even loaded the game since before artifacts even came in (so my posts were all speculative).
But man, gotta say we shouldn't be as butthurt as some posts appear since really, it's just alpha. Shit's going to be wonky for a while. I know we've said this before that it's super polished and all for an alpha and we have some expectations because of real $, but keep in mind when the game does actually come out (blizzard soon), it'll be so god damned polished that the days of LoL having 90% of the moba scene will seem like a joke that no one gets because this game is obviously so damn better and it'd be just plain silly to ever think it was different.
We might all have grand kids by then but hell, we'll be able to scare them with horror stories of LoL communities or official blizzard forums.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
also, no, once you are making a product you do not get to excuse it by saying it is not done. it is a product. blizzard may not be selling it to the mass market but they are presenting a product, and i have the right to call it a piece of shit when it is a piece of shit, no matter how much people who think they like the game but haven't played it yet say i should be thankful to play it
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Yea this is maybe the one time the official forums have accomplished something good, that's how bad there system was
Later today! But not now...
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seems more like he doesn't think you should get angry or despair. which seems especially reasonable considering the changes they just made.
so I still have to level a hero to access all their skills but the out-of-game grind of artifacts is gone? sounds good
@MMmig and I rolled some people with a 5-man premade team. My apologies to anyone else from here that was on that team that I didn't give a shout out to.
I love Tyrael, and I can't wait for his Master Skin to be put in the game.
@Darklite_x Everything that was said above is correct. Tyrande's greatest strength is setting up her team for big plays. I cannot stress enough how significant a ranged, targeted stun is. But that's not all she offers. Scouting, damage amp, invisibility bring a lot to the team also. I've played against a 5-man premade that put her team-invis to great use. They setup some killer ambushes and used it to travel across lanes without us knowing where they were.
Regarding Tyrael, I'm not a fan of Sanctification. It has too many downsides to be good. I'm sure when the game gets to beta and balance becomes their chief concern, it will be made better. But right now, the list of downsides include:
-Removing the tank from combat
-Small radius of effect
-All of a sudden you become the focus of all incoming fire
I'm not a fan of Uther's Divine Shield either. It doesn't have a long enough duration, and it has too long of a cooldown. I feel like taking Divine Storm is so much better of a choice, that it makes the Shield no choice at all.
3-4 games in a row we won by the 11th minute?
ed: Speaking of, I'm going to jump back in now. Join up!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I'd still rather fight Hammer than Diablo. I just suck against Diablo. Anyone on right now that wants to suffer through a few games of me trying to get better at Abathur?
Happy to help with Abathur training too, he's still one of my favorite heroes
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I could have sworn I'd played enough games w/ him to have all his talents unlocked, but I guess not. I feel like I'm doing better w/ him every game I play, but I still have a long way to go before I'm great at him. I think that's why I like him so much. His playstyle is so different from any other MOBA char I've ever played.
just got him and he's..... strong...
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Tyrande's cloak-heal is actually really good, a lot better than people give it credit for, yeah. I played a few games with some PA folk a while back (this was before the Artifact/Talent Gating patch) and capitalized pretty well on it. I was Kerrigan with a Tyrande helping me attack a fort, and there was an enemy Valla dancing around back taking pot shots at us. I told the Tyrande to cloak me, and then I moved in between the fort and tower and was able to kill the Valla. It was pretty great.
Granted, in pub games, the extra movespeed is generally the way to go. You can't rely on/expect pubbies to take full advantage of the cloak. In a coordinated team, though, cloak heal can be devastating.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582