I'm calling that a -2 episodes until cancellation. What are we at now, 12?
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
edited February 2009
How have MSM reviews been of Whedon's other shows?
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
edited February 2009
So I'll probably like Dollhouse then. All one season of it. Good to know.
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I've seen a lot of other reviews of the pilot and the general consensus seems to be about "B-, with lots of potential". That Washington Post review is unusually bad.
Can't wait for tonight.
OremLK on
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So I'll probably like Dollhouse then. All one season of it. Good to know.
You think we're get a whole season?
Sucker.
EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure tonights ep is actually the season finale. The season premiere will be next week. The episode seven or so will play after that.
I didn't much care for Buffy or Angel aside from the generally great highlights (an episode here or there that I would really like). I did, however, love Firefly. I felt like it was the first time Whedon was taking his work seriously, building a cast (and world) from the ground up without specifically targeting wry teenagers. It's a show my entire family likes, with characters that feel authentically from different age groups and have very unique voices. That is more than I could say for any of his other work.
I'm a little concerned based on what I've been seeing/reading regarding Dollhouse. It looks a bit too much like he's returning to his "young girl kicks ass, let's watch!" formula. If that's your thing, then I suppose it'll be fantastic. But to me, it feels almost like regression. The FOX ads also make the show feel very one-dimensional, but I'll give it the benefit of a doubt there (I mean, it's FOX after all).
I'm interested in seeing what people here have to say about it after the premiere, though.
We don't really know what FOX will or won't do, just what they said they'd do, which is unreliable at best. Do keep in mind, though, that the season is only 13 episodes, and that they even aired about that many of Firefly... and that was under less friendly management.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I didn't much care for Buffy or Angel aside from the generally great highlights (an episode here or there that I would really like). I did, however, love Firefly. I felt like it was the first time Whedon was taking his work seriously, building a cast (and world) from the ground up without specifically targeting wry teenagers. It's a show my entire family likes, with characters that feel authentically from different age groups and have very unique voices. That is more than I could say for any of his other work.
I'm a little concerned based on what I've been seeing/reading regarding Dollhouse. It looks a bit too much like he's returning to his "young girl kicks ass, let's watch!" formula. If that's your thing, then I suppose it'll be fantastic. But to me, it feels almost like regression. The FOX ads also make the show feel very one-dimensional, but I'll give it the benefit of a doubt there (I mean, it's FOX after all).
I'm interested in seeing what people here have to say about it after the premiere, though.
Angel was nothing like what you describe.
And Buffy was built on the reversal of the standard Horror Stereotype. So yeah, it's got some "Women Kicking Ass, Fuck Ya!", but that's the point. Instead of "Girl is bad and gets punished by being murdered by monster", it's "Girl is in charge of her life and murders the monster back".
I didn't much care for Buffy or Angel aside from the generally great highlights (an episode here or there that I would really like). I did, however, love Firefly. I felt like it was the first time Whedon was taking his work seriously, building a cast (and world) from the ground up without specifically targeting wry teenagers. It's a show my entire family likes, with characters that feel authentically from different age groups and have very unique voices. That is more than I could say for any of his other work.
I'm a little concerned based on what I've been seeing/reading regarding Dollhouse. It looks a bit too much like he's returning to his "young girl kicks ass, let's watch!" formula. If that's your thing, then I suppose it'll be fantastic. But to me, it feels almost like regression. The FOX ads also make the show feel very one-dimensional, but I'll give it the benefit of a doubt there (I mean, it's FOX after all).
I'm interested in seeing what people here have to say about it after the premiere, though.
Angel was nothing like what you describe.
And Buffy was built on the reversal of the standard Horror Stereotype. So yeah, it's got some "Women Kicking Ass, Fuck Ya!", but that's the point. Instead of "Girl is bad and gets punished by being murdered by monster", it's "Girl is in charge of her life and murders the monster back".
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I thought it was never about "girl being bad, thus, punished by monsters" I always thought it was simply the role reversal of the dumb blonde always being the meek and scared ones getting killed.
I didn't much care for Buffy or Angel aside from the generally great highlights (an episode here or there that I would really like). I did, however, love Firefly. I felt like it was the first time Whedon was taking his work seriously, building a cast (and world) from the ground up without specifically targeting wry teenagers. It's a show my entire family likes, with characters that feel authentically from different age groups and have very unique voices. That is more than I could say for any of his other work.
I'm a little concerned based on what I've been seeing/reading regarding Dollhouse. It looks a bit too much like he's returning to his "young girl kicks ass, let's watch!" formula. If that's your thing, then I suppose it'll be fantastic. But to me, it feels almost like regression. The FOX ads also make the show feel very one-dimensional, but I'll give it the benefit of a doubt there (I mean, it's FOX after all).
I'm interested in seeing what people here have to say about it after the premiere, though.
Angel was nothing like what you describe.
And Buffy was built on the reversal of the standard Horror Stereotype. So yeah, it's got some "Women Kicking Ass, Fuck Ya!", but that's the point. Instead of "Girl is bad and gets punished by being murdered by monster", it's "Girl is in charge of her life and murders the monster back".
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I thought it was never about "girl being bad, thus, punished by monsters" I always thought it was simply the role reversal of the dumb blonde always being the meek and scared ones getting killed.
Well yes. But at the same time, from what I've been told anyway cause I'm not a horror fan of any sort, alot of deaths in horror films are sort of linked to, I guess, sexuality in some way.
It's like, the girl has sex, and then the monster kills her. Sort of a "Sex is bad" message buried in there or something.
Buffy is the opposite. Not just in role, but in theme. Female Empowerment kicks ass ... literally.
I didn't much care for Buffy or Angel aside from the generally great highlights (an episode here or there that I would really like). I did, however, love Firefly. I felt like it was the first time Whedon was taking his work seriously, building a cast (and world) from the ground up without specifically targeting wry teenagers. It's a show my entire family likes, with characters that feel authentically from different age groups and have very unique voices. That is more than I could say for any of his other work.
I'm a little concerned based on what I've been seeing/reading regarding Dollhouse. It looks a bit too much like he's returning to his "young girl kicks ass, let's watch!" formula. If that's your thing, then I suppose it'll be fantastic. But to me, it feels almost like regression. The FOX ads also make the show feel very one-dimensional, but I'll give it the benefit of a doubt there (I mean, it's FOX after all).
I'm interested in seeing what people here have to say about it after the premiere, though.
Angel was nothing like what you describe.
And Buffy was built on the reversal of the standard Horror Stereotype. So yeah, it's got some "Women Kicking Ass, Fuck Ya!", but that's the point. Instead of "Girl is bad and gets punished by being murdered by monster", it's "Girl is in charge of her life and murders the monster back".
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I thought it was never about "girl being bad, thus, punished by monsters" I always thought it was simply the role reversal of the dumb blonde always being the meek and scared ones getting killed.
Well yes. But at the same time, from what I've been told anyway cause I'm not a horror fan of any sort, alot of deaths in horror films are sort of linked to, I guess, sexuality in some way.
It's like, the girl has sex, and then the monster kills her. Sort of a "Sex is bad" message buried in there or something.
Buffy is the opposite. Not just in role, but in theme. Female Empowerment kicks ass ... literally.
Having sex in the Buffyverse is usually a bad idea. Angel lost his soul, Cordelia was impregnated by demonspawn (twice!), Riley and Buffy animated spirits that made everyone go crazy, etc.
I worry that it might have a bit too much mystery-for-the-sake-of-mystery going on, and I'm definitely getting a Dark Angel vibe from parts of it, but it's a solid premise and a fairly promising start.
I'm afraid I can't get into this as long as BSG is still on the air, though, because right now I can't see Penikett as anyone but Helo.
Yeah, the show wasn't the disappointment I was expecting. The only things that didn't work for me was Helo getting chewed out for being a rogue agent who doesn't play by the rules and Dushku not being terribly convincing as a rape victim.
That said, I'm glad to see the personalities aren't just skill sets, but rather fully fleshed out personalities.
but I liked how it was intercut with the fight scene, and was fascinated that somebody above their heads is interested enough in the Dollhouse to interfere and keep Ballard on the job
Random thoughts (no spoilers):
The memory-transfer thing is a lot more interesting than I thought it would be
The first scene was very cool, but also felt a little odd as a way to start the pilot. The first ten or fifteen minutes were a bit slow in general, but the second half was amazing.
Having 60-90 second commercial breaks is awesome
Fran Kranz is like the smarmiest little man, seriously.
Tahmoh Penikett and Harry J. Lennix are awesome, Amy Acker is... scarred... and Olivia Williams is the iciest bitch
And Eliza was better than I expected--she did well at some of the more emotional parts, whereas I didn't feel like she pulled it off on Tru Calling... which was probably because the writing sucked on that show.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
They were going to sleep in coffins. Very bizarre, I wonder if there's a reason they have them sleep in there? Definitely reinforces the whole "underground prison" angle.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Really disconcerting how there was almost zero Whedon humor in this. Even serious episodes of his previous shows had a touch of humor here and there. I hope it's just this episode, because otherwise, I didn't find anything to really set it apart from any other average show on Fox.
So was Amy Acker scarred for the show or did she actually get that scar between the time of Angel ending and this show starting?
Also, about the actual show: Liking it so far (although it could of used a little more humor like Bionic Monkey mentioned). I'm interested in seeing (assuming it survives long enough) where they take this show and how it can have longevity. Obviously they plan on having her start to remember things, as has been outright stated, but at that point, one would assume she would break away from the people controlling her, so how would it continue to be "dollhouse" then?
So was Amy Acker scarred for the show or did she actually get that scar between the time of Angel ending and this show starting?
Also, about the actual show: Liking it so far (although it could of used a little more humor like Bionic Monkey mentioned). I'm interested in seeing (assuming it survives long enough) where they take this show and how it can have longevity. Obviously they plan on having her start to remember things, as has been outright stated, but at that point, one would assume she would break away from the people controlling her, so how would it continue to be "dollhouse" then?
Perhaps there are other facilities like the one she is in, and when she gets her memory back, she'll work to free others from them as well?
So was Amy Acker scarred for the show or did she actually get that scar between the time of Angel ending and this show starting?
Also, about the actual show: Liking it so far (although it could of used a little more humor like Bionic Monkey mentioned). I'm interested in seeing (assuming it survives long enough) where they take this show and how it can have longevity. Obviously they plan on having her start to remember things, as has been outright stated, but at that point, one would assume she would break away from the people controlling her, so how would it continue to be "dollhouse" then?
Maybe she will choose to stay? Apparently over time she will begin to remember more and more from her "engagements". Maybe she will start retaining skills and memories, and when enough of her own self has surfaced to prevent further programming, she will still be useful as an agent.
Or not. Who knows, it's total speculation at this point.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
So was Amy Acker scarred for the show or did she actually get that scar between the time of Angel ending and this show starting?
Also, about the actual show: Liking it so far (although it could of used a little more humor like Bionic Monkey mentioned). I'm interested in seeing (assuming it survives long enough) where they take this show and how it can have longevity. Obviously they plan on having her start to remember things, as has been outright stated, but at that point, one would assume she would break away from the people controlling her, so how would it continue to be "dollhouse" then?
Maybe she will choose to stay? Apparently over time she will begin to remember more and more from her "engagements". Maybe she will start retaining skills and memories, and when enough of her own self has surfaced to prevent further programming, she will still be useful as an agent.
Or not. Who knows, it's total speculation at this point.
At this point, and I know it's not really enough to judge it on, I'd be extremely doubtful of her staying after she develops a personality of her own, if only because she'd want to help the others like her (well free them).
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Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
Really disconcerting how there was almost zero Whedon humor in this. Even serious episodes of his previous shows had a touch of humor here and there.
This, I get the feeling that Fox probably had something to do with this. The problem is that Whedon's humor is the kind of humor that certain people wouldn't understand, they wouldn't get the greatness of that, these people are the people over at Fox, they instead want to make Dollhouse their new "sexy action" show...because ya know, they have a great track record with those.
I like it, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like the show that Wedon wants it to be.
Also, I totally didn't know Amy Acker was going to be in this
So was Amy Acker scarred for the show or did she actually get that scar between the time of Angel ending and this show starting?
Also, about the actual show: Liking it so far (although it could of used a little more humor like Bionic Monkey mentioned). I'm interested in seeing (assuming it survives long enough) where they take this show and how it can have longevity. Obviously they plan on having her start to remember things, as has been outright stated, but at that point, one would assume she would break away from the people controlling her, so how would it continue to be "dollhouse" then?
Maybe she will choose to stay? Apparently over time she will begin to remember more and more from her "engagements". Maybe she will start retaining skills and memories, and when enough of her own self has surfaced to prevent further programming, she will still be useful as an agent.
Or not. Who knows, it's total speculation at this point.
At this point, and I know it's not really enough to judge it on, I'd be extremely doubtful of her staying after she develops a personality of her own, if only because she'd want to help the others like her (well free them).
Yeah, that may be, but remember that she presumably chose this life. At least, in a way. I'm guessing based on the first scene that before becoming an Active, she committed some crime (my money is on vigilante-type stuff) and the Dollhouse was her only out. Maybe she took it over going to prison or some such?
Guess we'll find out soon enough.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Posts
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/12/AR2009021203994.html
Man, fuck the Washington Post.
By and large positive for Buffy and Angel. I'm not sure on Firefly
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About the same, apparently.
Can't wait for tonight.
You think we're get a whole season?
Sucker.
EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure tonights ep is actually the season finale. The season premiere will be next week. The episode seven or so will play after that.
I didn't read it, although...
I'm a little concerned based on what I've been seeing/reading regarding Dollhouse. It looks a bit too much like he's returning to his "young girl kicks ass, let's watch!" formula. If that's your thing, then I suppose it'll be fantastic. But to me, it feels almost like regression. The FOX ads also make the show feel very one-dimensional, but I'll give it the benefit of a doubt there (I mean, it's FOX after all).
I'm interested in seeing what people here have to say about it after the premiere, though.
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This is stated/countered so often in this seven page thread that I'm thinking of creating a drinking game based on it.
Angel was nothing like what you describe.
And Buffy was built on the reversal of the standard Horror Stereotype. So yeah, it's got some "Women Kicking Ass, Fuck Ya!", but that's the point. Instead of "Girl is bad and gets punished by being murdered by monster", it's "Girl is in charge of her life and murders the monster back".
Whedon interview with Knowledge@Wharton (School of Business at Penn). Mostly about Dr Horrible but a little about Dollhouse
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Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I thought it was never about "girl being bad, thus, punished by monsters" I always thought it was simply the role reversal of the dumb blonde always being the meek and scared ones getting killed.
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Well yes. But at the same time, from what I've been told anyway cause I'm not a horror fan of any sort, alot of deaths in horror films are sort of linked to, I guess, sexuality in some way.
It's like, the girl has sex, and then the monster kills her. Sort of a "Sex is bad" message buried in there or something.
Buffy is the opposite. Not just in role, but in theme. Female Empowerment kicks ass ... literally.
I can't wait.
Having sex in the Buffyverse is usually a bad idea. Angel lost his soul, Cordelia was impregnated by demonspawn (twice!), Riley and Buffy animated spirits that made everyone go crazy, etc.
It goes on and on.
But seriously, Angel is awesome.
Yeah, I know. I'm not saying that Whedon was advocating abstinence, just probably sexual responsibility.
I worry that it might have a bit too much mystery-for-the-sake-of-mystery going on, and I'm definitely getting a Dark Angel vibe from parts of it, but it's a solid premise and a fairly promising start.
I'm afraid I can't get into this as long as BSG is still on the air, though, because right now I can't see Penikett as anyone but Helo.
That said, I'm glad to see the personalities aren't just skill sets, but rather fully fleshed out personalities.
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Random thoughts (no spoilers):
I keep seeing Wolfram and Hart in the Dollhouse set though. Wonder if they used some of the set pieces from it. I'll definitely be tuning in again.
Wow, when you put it like that, I get Little Sister flashbacks. Thanks a lot.
Also, about the actual show: Liking it so far (although it could of used a little more humor like Bionic Monkey mentioned). I'm interested in seeing (assuming it survives long enough) where they take this show and how it can have longevity. Obviously they plan on having her start to remember things, as has been outright stated, but at that point, one would assume she would break away from the people controlling her, so how would it continue to be "dollhouse" then?
She had like five scars on her face. Of course they're makeup for the show.
Perhaps there are other facilities like the one she is in, and when she gets her memory back, she'll work to free others from them as well?
Maybe she will choose to stay? Apparently over time she will begin to remember more and more from her "engagements". Maybe she will start retaining skills and memories, and when enough of her own self has surfaced to prevent further programming, she will still be useful as an agent.
Or not. Who knows, it's total speculation at this point.
At this point, and I know it's not really enough to judge it on, I'd be extremely doubtful of her staying after she develops a personality of her own, if only because she'd want to help the others like her (well free them).
This, I get the feeling that Fox probably had something to do with this. The problem is that Whedon's humor is the kind of humor that certain people wouldn't understand, they wouldn't get the greatness of that, these people are the people over at Fox, they instead want to make Dollhouse their new "sexy action" show...because ya know, they have a great track record with those.
I like it, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like the show that Wedon wants it to be.
Also, I totally didn't know Amy Acker was going to be in this
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
Yeah, that may be, but remember that she presumably chose this life. At least, in a way. I'm guessing based on the first scene that before becoming an Active, she committed some crime (my money is on vigilante-type stuff) and the Dollhouse was her only out. Maybe she took it over going to prison or some such?
Guess we'll find out soon enough.