We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way. [Dollhouse, Whedon spoilers]

OremLK

What is it?

If the words "Joss Whedon's new show" don't spark your interest, I don't even know what to do with you.

Sigh. Fine. Dollhouse is a new one-hour drama. It is a near-future science fiction show about "actives", people who are blank slates living in a futuristic dormitory/laboratory (the Dollhouse), where they wait to be programmed with memories and sent on secret missions. Eliza Dushku (Faith in Buffy) plays as Echo, a doll whose personality begins to emerge despite the best efforts of her handlers.

Other actors of interest include Tahmoh Penikett (Helo in BSG), who plays a cop trying to discover the truth about the Dollhouse, and Amy Acker (Fred in Angel), a doctor who looks after the the actives.

When does it come on?

In case you're blind and missed that big honking poster, Dollhouse premiered on February 13th and will play on Fridays at 9pm ET/8pm CST. This is known as the "death slot" and has killed about a dozen science fiction shows in the last fifteen years, including Firefly. So if you happen to have a Nielsen box, do us a favor and leave it running, will you?

GoodOmens

So we've got Faith looking hawt as hell, Helo being awesome, and a bunch of nobodies in strange and disconcerting clothes. Somehow I don't think these factors are going to add up to success. G'bye, Dollhouse, we hardly knew ye.

1ddqd

I have to be honest, I'm not nearly as psyched about this as I should be. I love Serenity, Drive, even Buffy/Angel, but I always grew bored with each series as it went on (with the exception of Drive, since Fox didn't even give me the chance to grow bored).

I think the only thing that can save shows is if DirecTV, DishNetwork, Comcast, etc all start using their boxes to cross-rate shows based on DVR and watch rates.

Or if they start selling their usage rates to networks, either way. As far as this show goes, though, like any fan, I'll give it a fair shake. I really hope it's not too heavy in the drama department (a la Buffy) and is more action-packed than Serenity. From the trailers, I think that may be the case!

OremLK

GoodOmens wrote: »

So we've got Faith looking hawt as hell, Helo being awesome, and a bunch of nobodies in strange and disconcerting clothes. Somehow I don't think these factors are going to add up to success. G'bye, Dollhouse, we hardly knew ye.

Yeah, the promo shots are weird as hell. I'm not sure what they did to bring them into the uncanny valley, but they definitely succeeded if that was their goal.

1ddqd

OremLK wrote: »

GoodOmens wrote: »

So we've got Faith looking hawt as hell, Helo being awesome, and a bunch of nobodies in strange and disconcerting clothes. Somehow I don't think these factors are going to add up to success. G'bye, Dollhouse, we hardly knew ye.

Yeah, the promo shots are weird as hell. I'm not sure what they did to bring them into the uncanny valley, but they definitely succeeded if that was their goal.

I think it's just to show who are "blanks" and who are their handlers. The three people in the middle (asian chick, girl from True Lies, random dude) are all dressed in yoga clothes. Maybe so they can easily switch into disguises for missions, or so they're always comfortable. But always stylish!

theSquid

Well they do look like they're made out of plastic.

Also, I have never seen an Asian woman before with that facial structure. I have no idea whats going on over there.

reVerse

Whoa. What the hell is up with the red shirted dude's and the Asian chick's faces? That's some freaky shit.

Tomanta

The good news is that Fox has promised to:
1) Use lower rating standards, given its timeslot
and
2) Show the full season no matter what.

So let's just hope Joss didn't give it a cliffhanger ending of any sort.

OremLK

Tomanta wrote: »

The good news is that Fox has promised to:
1) Use lower rating standards, given its timeslot
and
2) Show the full season no matter what.

So let's just hope Joss didn't give it a cliffhanger ending of any sort.

Good to hear that they're using lower rating standards, I hadn't read that before. Maybe, just maybe, they'll give it a chance after the first season. We can hope.

OptimusZed

The mental image I'm getting here is of Joss with a sword in one hand and a shield in the other fighting off a Dragon with Ruppert Murdoch's head while Eliza Dushku is tied to a stake behind him.

Godspeed, Sir Whedon.

redx

I just don't get it. It's like the cute girl that keeps going back to the asshole boyfriend. You just have to sit there and watch it happen over and over and over again.

I know Fox drives a nice car and sometimes is funny, but can't Joss Whedon do better?

Robos A Go Go

What happens if the ratings are low, but it's one of the more popular shows on Hulu and/or itunes? Do the networks still use Nielsen ratings as the primary means of judging a show's viability?

Just_Bri_Thanks

Having never seen any of this show I have to say I kind of feel sorry for Joss. His stuff seems to me to have potential, but he keeps getting canceled.

OptimusZed

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Having never seen any of this show I have to say I kind of feel sorry for Joss. His stuff seems to me to have potential, but he keeps getting canceled.

He had good long runs with Buffy and Angel (Angel not as long as he would have liked, I guess). It's just more recent projects that haven't gotten the same time to develop. Because he keeps pitching to FOX.

OremLK

redx wrote: »

I just don't get it. It's like the cute girl that keeps going back to the asshole boyfriend. You just have to sit there and watch it happen over and over and over again.

I know Fox drives a nice car and sometimes is funny, but can't Joss Whedon do better?

He said this time that the management had changed hands at FOX and that's why he gave them another chance. I really wish he would go to cable, though. In my opinion it's where he belongs, where there is room for quirky, high-concept shows that are not as highly rated.

area

redx wrote: »

I just don't get it. It's like the cute girl that keeps going back to the asshole boyfriend. You just have to sit there and watch it happen over and over and over again.

I know Fox drives a nice car and sometimes is funny, but can't Joss Whedon do better?

It wasn't deliberate this time. Much.

The LA Times wrote:

Is it true that this idea came to you over lunch with Eliza Dushku?

Eliza had made the deal at Fox and we got together to talk about her ambition, her management, her opportunities, because I’ve always felt that she’s a huge star. Plus, she’s a friend.

But I was trying to get a movie off the ground, “Goners.” “Wonder Woman” had already crashed and burned. “Goners” they had already lost control of the instruments, but who knows? So things were not that auspicious, but I was working it. Not shunning television but not intending to come back. But as we discussed Eliza’s predicament, I started giving her some ideas about what I thought she would need: a genre show so she could be political without being partisan; an ensemble show so she didn’t have to be in every scene. And I thought about it for a bit and then literally went, oh, curse word, I just came up with the show and the title. And it was the title that I knew I was doomed. Because if you have the title, you know it’s right. And that’s just bad.

When we really discussed the whole thing, she said, “You’re talking about my life. In my life, everybody tells me who they want me to be while I try and figure out who I am.” And that spoke to me. I agreed that I’ll write and maybe oversee the pilot. So I went home and said, “Honey, I’m sorry, I accidentally agreed to a Fox show at lunch.”

Link

Buttcleft

anything with Amy Acker is destined for epic levels of win.

Robos A Go Go

Buttcleft wrote: »

anything with Amy Acker is destined for epic levels of win.

Her Sci-Fi channel original movie disagrees!

GoodOmens

I didn't realize she was involved. Amy Acker and Faith...I'll be in my bunk.

A Dabble Of Thelonius

I love Joss Whedon, but Dollhouse looks pretty dumb. Doesn't help that Dushku is not a very good actress.

Wash

A Dabble Of Thelonius wrote: »

I love Joss Whedon, but Dollhouse looks pretty dumb. Doesn't help that Dusku is not a very good actress.

OremLK

Dushku has never been one of my favorite Whedonverse actresses, and this series sounds a little too episodic for my usual taste, but I will give them both the benefit of the doubt. A whole season's worth of benefit of the doubt, and plenty of enthusiasm to boot. That's how much I love his past shows.

Plus, Tahmoh Penikett and Amy Acker are fucking awesome.

Bloods End

Didn't they have to rewrite the entire pilot because it was terrible?

And hasn't Whedon said he has absolutely no idea where he's going with it?

OremLK

Yeah, they re-did the pilot. But that kind of shit happens, sometimes, with writing, especially something as critical to get right as the first episode. I don't remember Joss saying he doesn't know where things are going, though--I'd love to see a link on that if you can remember where you heard it. I would be surprised if he doesn't have some ideas bouncing around, though.

ElJeffe

Dushku is an acceptable actress, easily the equal of most of the cast of Buffy.

And the premise for Dollhouse is intriguing, but it will all boil down to execution.

See, what I don't get is how Joss Whedon is a beloved show creator who has spawned three immensely popular shows, and yet he still always gets screwed by Fox. Clearly, there are people who want to watch these shows. There are people who want to bathe in the Buffyverse. And Fox is saying, "Huh, huge devoted fan base who slavers over anything Whedon-y? Yeah, we better make sure they can never figure out when this show is on, or else they might try to watch it."

Seriously, wtf?

ElJeffe

I think the episodic nature is a smart move. It allows people to jump in several episodes in without feeling they've missed as much. There are several shows I've planned to watch, forgotten about before they started, and decided to pass because I didn't want to have to play catch-up.

Robos A Go Go

Personally, I get the sense that the episodic format of weekly adventures that have no lasting repercussions on the main character is something of a decoy and that the true point of the show will manifest later on. A show about a main character with no enduring traits just doesn't sound sustainable.

Also, it's pretty funny how the ad people want us to look at the scene where Dushku is brainwashed into making out with an old guy as comical and sexy when, once the show airs in full, it'll probably become clear that the act is tantamount to rape.

OremLK

Yeah, it may be a smart move from the business side of things (getting more people to watch the show), which is probably why FOX is pushing for it. It's just not as much to my personal taste. I like my TV seasons like novels--one big storyline with lots of cool subplots.

PantsB

What Whedon show hasn't been largely episodic. Buffy, Angel and Firefly had overarching plots, but the former used the Monster of the Week format (a majority of the time) and Firefly basically used scheme of the week.

OremLK

Buffy had plenty of monsters of the week, true, but it also always had what the fans call a "Big Bad"--a season-long story arc--and became incredibly serial at times. Angel took it even farther in the third and fourth seasons and had very few monsters of the week... almost every episode in those seasons progressed the main story.

I suppose it's fair to say that Firefly was pretty episodic, but they did keep the River storyline in play pretty consistently given how few episodes there were in total. So, yes, this show could be amazing just like Firefly was, and I'm hoping it will be. I do love me some continuity though.

Bionic Monkey

Tomanta wrote: »

The good news is that Fox has promised to:
1) Use lower rating standards, given its timeslot
and
2) Show the full season no matter what.

So let's just hope Joss didn't give it a cliffhanger ending of any sort.

Joss tends to be pretty good at avoiding cliff-hangers. He likes to wrap up plots at the end of his seasons, and start fresh with the new season.

Bionic Monkey

redx wrote: »

I just don't get it. It's like the cute girl that keeps going back to the asshole boyfriend. You just have to sit there and watch it happen over and over and over again.

I know Fox drives a nice car and sometimes is funny, but can't Joss Whedon do better?

If this hasn't already been addressed, Dushku has a contract with Fox. The show is actually a collaboration between her and Whedon, so if he wanted to do it, it legally had to be with Fox.

Balefuego

Bionic Monkey wrote: »

Tomanta wrote: »

The good news is that Fox has promised to:
1) Use lower rating standards, given its timeslot
and
2) Show the full season no matter what.

So let's just hope Joss didn't give it a cliffhanger ending of any sort.

Joss tends to be pretty good at avoiding cliff-hangers. He likes to wrap up plots at the end of his seasons, and start fresh with the new season.

Except for Buffy season 2, season 4, season 5, and season 6.

and Angel season 1, season 3, season 4, and season 5

Bionic Monkey

I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say there.

Balefuego

I had quoted the wrong post, it's fixed now!

Bionic Monkey

Balefuego wrote: »

I had quoted the wrong post, it's fixed now!

Okay, maybe my definition of "cliff hanger" is different than yours.

Season 1 of Battlestar Galactica is a cliff hanger. Killing Angel and stopping the apocalypse, then getting on a bus for LA is not a cliff hanger.

Season 3 of Angel is the only cliff hanger ending I can think of that Joss has ever done.

Balefuego

so angel getting locked in a box and dropped into the ocean at the end of season 3 isn't a cliffhanger?

the last scene of angel season 1 is darla's resurection, thats not a cliffhanger?

Bionic Monkey

Balefuego wrote: »

so angel getting locked in a box and dropped into the ocean at the end of season 3 isn't a cliffhanger?

Had that mixed up with season 4. Fixed my post now.

As for the Darla thing, that feels borderline to me.

Balefuego

then yes we have proufoundly different definitions of cliffhangers

shryke

If you think S5 of Angel is a cliff-hanger, your nuts.

Angel S1 and Angel S3 are the only real cliff-hangers.

The closest Buffy ever came was S6, and that was more "resolution with a slight tease at the end".

Balefuego

I'm not saying a cliffhanger can't be a viable ending

but angel season 5 counts in my book.