Care to expand? Cause it'd be nice to think you're either being facetious or have a better explanation than this.
It's really simple.
In the game of attraction, women make themselves visible and attractive for many potential suitors.
But men can't play this same game as women. Women will never zero in on any specific man, there's too many of them orbiting around them. Too much noise. If a man seeks to make himself visible to a woman he does it by confronting her and giving her attention.
Care to expand? Cause it'd be nice to think you're either being facetious or have a better explanation than this.
It's really simple.
In the game of attraction, women make themselves visible and attractive for many potential suitors.
But men can't play this same game as women. Women will never zero in on any specific man, there's too many of them orbiting around them. Too much noise. If a man seeks to make himself visible to a woman he does it by confronting her and giving her attention.
That's really funny.
Because it's the exact opposite of how my girlfriend and I met.
You see - we mutually zeroed in on each other.
And also - get your definition of feminism right. We're all fucking feminists unless you're a douche.
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
i too dread the horrible specter of gender equality
are you trying to be difficult obs?
No, I'm just pointing out that in the real world, Women aren't men, and men aren't women. That's what's good about the world.
Our goal shouldn't be to make a world where the genders are so equal that they lose the aspects that attract them together in the first place. Women and Men are complements to each other, every woman should need a man and every man should need a woman. Neither gender is superior to the other, but together they can become far greater.
I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
i too dread the horrible specter of gender equality
are you trying to be difficult obs?
No, I'm just pointing out that in the real world, Women aren't men, and men aren't women. That's what's good about the world.
Our goal shouldn't be to make a world where the genders are so equal that they lose the aspects that attract them together in the first place. Women and Men are complements to each other, every woman should need a man and every man should need a woman. Neither gender is superior to the other, but together they can become far greater.
I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I had to laugh.
SkyGheNe on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Hey guys, if we keep going, maybe we can get him to agree with ege!
And also - get your definition of feminism right. We're all fucking feminists unless you're a douche.
Doesn't making the word feminism so broad that it encompasses everyone who isn't a douche effectively make the term useless?
Feminists believe in gender equality.
Feminism is the belief that women should have equal political, social, sexual, intellectual and economic rights to men. It involves various movements, theories, and philosophies, all concerned with issues of gender difference, that advocate equality for women and that campaign for women's rights and interests.
And there are some people that believe, whether stated explicitly or not, that this should not be so.
So no, I'm pretty sure that the definition is just fine.
And also - get your definition of feminism right. We're all fucking feminists unless you're a douche.
Doesn't making the word feminism so broad that it encompasses everyone who isn't a douche effectively make the term useless?
For the sake of most web based arguments, feminism is either everyone who agrees with you, or a subset of raving loons who cause a fuss for no good reason depending on whether you are for them or against them.
tbloxham on
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Guys, do I laugh or do I cry? I'm laughing, but part of me is a little scared.
I'm almost doing both. He must realise how fucking wrong he is or he must be have been living in a very small room without any social interaction at all, his whole "life".
@Obs, do women not zero in on males? You haven't even met one right? It happens just as often as the opposite way, that is what I've experienced and everyone except you. Why shouldn't women zero in on men, you have no clue do you.
Given the amount of stupid you've spat out on this page alone this is last time ever I will pay attention to anything you post, the forum would be a whole lot better off if others would just ignore you as well.
This is the part of the thread where I look down at my pocket watch, take one last look over my shoulder, and walk away into the blinding white bloom of an open doorway. Hands buried in the pockets of my coat.
I'm not hating, really. What I meant was, if you don't care if someone labels you for how you act, then act any way you please. But only being polite to women is easy to see how that could be viewed as misogynistic. And that's complete different from your dating preferences, so you can keep your false dichotomy.
Nope, you can actually keep your absurd judgements. If I only would help women, and viewed men as having to get by for themselves, then that would be dickish. However if there is an equal choice between who I hold the door open for, and I always choose the woman, theres nothing wrong with that on any level. The same number of people had doors held for them, and I got to follow my preferences. This is what having a preference means.
If I was placed in a position of authority over more than my own actions, and used that to only help women, or only help men then that would be dickish since once you gain authority society demands you set some personal preferences aside.
This is the part of the thread where I look down at my pocket watch, take one last look over my shoulder, and walk away into the blinding white bloom of an open doorway. Hands buried in the pockets of my coat.
And into the warm glow of another computer, set up to a completely different forum, sheltered from the realities of the world, left alone to brood over the goldfish not found in a pet store, but the ones found in the grain aisle of a Costco wholesale food store.
Guys, do I laugh or do I cry? I'm laughing, but part of me is a little scared.
I'm almost doing both. He must realise how fucking wrong he is or he must be have been living in a very small room without any social interaction at all, his whole "life".
@Obs, do women not zero in on males? You haven't even met one right? It happens just as often as the opposite way, that is what I've experienced and everyone except you. Why shouldn't women zero in on men, you have no clue do you.
Given the amount of stupid you've spat out on this page alone this is last time ever I will pay attention to anything you post, the forum would be a whole lot better off if others would just ignore you as well.
Naw, I find Obs amusing, talking with my girlfriend over Skype and we are laughing our asses off at his comments.
It's amusing in a sad way though, like watching a train filled to the brim with puppies and clowns derail into a bubblegum lake.
Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?
Which part, the inherent misogyny? Or the.... inherent misogyny? Yes. Yes we do.
So if the lady I'm with is cold and I offer her my jacket...it's because I hate women?
If you have some kind of relationship with this person, then I would say its just doing something nice for someone you care about. If the woman is a stranger, then that strikes me as a little creepy and you may be a bit of a misogynist.
Not really. The important thing isn't to be a dick to women, it's to not assume that they need men to take care of everything for them. It becomes misogyny when you expect her to repay you loaning her your jacket in trade, or when you try to force her to take it despite anything she says about not needing it, or otherwise treat them as either a sex-object, a child, or an invalid. If you're outside talking to a girl while you both smoke cigarettes and she says she's freezing you can offer her your jacket without being anything. If you're not dressed warmly enough to go without your jacket then you look pathetic. There's basically a whole lot more to it than your oversimplification.
This is kind of a poor topic. There really isn't any discussion possible, it's either a self-righteous wankfest or a flamewar, depending on whether people who don't feel that men and women should be treated equally whenever possible decide to participate.
This is kind of a poor topic. There really isn't any discussion possible, it's either a self-righteous wankfest or a flamewar, depending on whether people who don't feel that men and women should be treated equally whenever possible decide to participate.
There are four pages of impossible so far. And that's if you've got your viewing options set to the maximum posts per page. How do you reconcile this?
I dunno. We actually do segregate men and women quite a bit. Frats, sororities, ladies' nights, bathrooms, locker rooms, sports. We're far far FAR from equality between the sexes in just about anything as of yet. I have no problems with a lot of these things because... you know... cooties and shit, but that's my social upbringing talking and I have no illusions about that. I treat girls a little nicer than guys, and I don't care what other people think. Suck on that.
Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?
Which part, the inherent misogyny? Or the.... inherent misogyny? Yes. Yes we do.
So if the lady I'm with is cold and I offer her my jacket...it's because I hate women?
If you have some kind of relationship with this person, then I would say its just doing something nice for someone you care about. If the woman is a stranger, then that strikes me as a little creepy and you may be a bit of a misogynist.
Not really. The important thing isn't to be a dick to women, it's to not assume that they need men to take care of everything for them. It becomes misogyny when you expect her to repay you loaning her your jacket in trade, or when you try to force her to take it despite anything she says about not needing it, or otherwise treat them as either a sex-object, a child, or an invalid. If you're outside talking to a girl while you both smoke cigarettes and she says she's freezing you can offer her your jacket without being anything. If you're not dressed warmly enough to go without your jacket then you look pathetic. There's basically a whole lot more to it than your oversimplification.
I don't know about that. In that scenario, assuming the woman is otherwise healthy, I would say offering her a jacket is going beyond the call of duty in a way; suggesting that you do in fact believe women need to be taken care of. But I admit its possible that I just view loaning articles of clothing to strangers to be a stronger gesture than you do.
As far as the original topic goes, I'm with the people who say they don't see how their life is worth less than others just because of their gender. I think the women first idea is obsolete. Children first I can be fine with.
And I'm generally a pretty selfless person. I always think of others' needs before my own in social interactions etc. But in life or death? I don't think I should stand back just because I usually care about others before myself. I don't want to die just as much as the rest.
And as others have said, there are still plenty of factors that would influence my decision. If I were elderly then I wouldn't mind dying as much.
Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?
Which part, the inherent misogyny? Or the.... inherent misogyny? Yes. Yes we do.
So if the lady I'm with is cold and I offer her my jacket...it's because I hate women?
If you have some kind of relationship with this person, then I would say its just doing something nice for someone you care about. If the woman is a stranger, then that strikes me as a little creepy and you may be a bit of a misogynist.
Not really. The important thing isn't to be a dick to women, it's to not assume that they need men to take care of everything for them. It becomes misogyny when you expect her to repay you loaning her your jacket in trade, or when you try to force her to take it despite anything she says about not needing it, or otherwise treat them as either a sex-object, a child, or an invalid. If you're outside talking to a girl while you both smoke cigarettes and she says she's freezing you can offer her your jacket without being anything. If you're not dressed warmly enough to go without your jacket then you look pathetic. There's basically a whole lot more to it than your oversimplification.
I don't know about that. In that scenario, assuming the woman is otherwise healthy, I would say offering her a jacket is going beyond the call of duty in a way; suggesting that you do in fact believe women need to be taken care of. But I admit its possible that I just view loaning articles of clothing to strangers to be a stronger gesture than you do.
If I loan someone my jacket because she says she's freezing I believe women need to be taken care of? How does that interpretation make more sense than that I believe she is capable of determining that she is in fact very cold and doesn't just have some tic where she says random crazy nonsense at arbitrary intervals?
And how far does this logic go? If a woman asks to bum a cigarette am I to chastise her for failing to buy enough cigarettes before going to the bar while I bum them to any random guy who asks as long as I have more than one left?
Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?
Which part, the inherent misogyny? Or the.... inherent misogyny? Yes. Yes we do.
So if the lady I'm with is cold and I offer her my jacket...it's because I hate women?
If you have some kind of relationship with this person, then I would say its just doing something nice for someone you care about. If the woman is a stranger, then that strikes me as a little creepy and you may be a bit of a misogynist.
Not really. The important thing isn't to be a dick to women, it's to not assume that they need men to take care of everything for them. It becomes misogyny when you expect her to repay you loaning her your jacket in trade, or when you try to force her to take it despite anything she says about not needing it, or otherwise treat them as either a sex-object, a child, or an invalid. If you're outside talking to a girl while you both smoke cigarettes and she says she's freezing you can offer her your jacket without being anything. If you're not dressed warmly enough to go without your jacket then you look pathetic. There's basically a whole lot more to it than your oversimplification.
I don't know about that. In that scenario, assuming the woman is otherwise healthy, I would say offering her a jacket is going beyond the call of duty in a way; suggesting that you do in fact believe women need to be taken care of. But I admit its possible that I just view loaning articles of clothing to strangers to be a stronger gesture than you do.
If I loan someone my jacket because she says she's freezing I believe women need to be taken care of? How does that interpretation make more sense than that I believe she is capable of determining that she is in fact very cold and doesn't just have some tic where she says random crazy nonsense at arbitrary intervals?
Like I said, I think in this case I just happen to put more significance into this particular deed than you do. Being courteous is on thing, but if you are sacrificing your own comfort to such an extent for a stranger then that would cause me to read more into it.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Guys, do I laugh or do I cry? I'm laughing, but part of me is a little scared.
I'm almost doing both. He must realise how fucking wrong he is or he must be have been living in a very small room without any social interaction at all, his whole "life".
@Obs, do women not zero in on males? You haven't even met one right? It happens just as often as the opposite way, that is what I've experienced and everyone except you. Why shouldn't women zero in on men, you have no clue do you.
Given the amount of stupid you've spat out on this page alone this is last time ever I will pay attention to anything you post, the forum would be a whole lot better off if others would just ignore you as well.
Naw, I find Obs amusing, talking with my girlfriend over Skype and we are laughing our asses off at his comments.
It's amusing in a sad way though, like watching a train filled to the brim with puppies and clowns derail into a bubblegum lake.
I'm not good at laughing at his sort of mentality, or rather his idiocy is very amusing but I know he is dangerous. Because people of his kind are the one reason the world is not perfect. I'm not just talking about the misogyny but his complete ignorance on any presented subject whatsoever and his apparent hatred of anything that is not him (though he might and certainly should hate himself as well).
So if the lady I'm with is cold and I offer her my jacket...it's because I hate women?
This question is stupid and missing the point, almost purposely.
You'd be sexist in this situation only if you'd have your jacket to cold women and never to cold men who ask for your jacket. I have a feeling that you understood this before asking.
And how far does this logic go? If a woman asks to bum a cigarette am I to chastise her for failing to buy enough cigarettes before going to the bar while I bum them to any random guy who asks as long as I have more than one left?
Yea, I am going to say you have completely misinterpreted my meaning.
Edit: If it makes thing clearer, I would put this into the just being courteous category. Giving the person a cigarette that is.
Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?
Which part, the inherent misogyny? Or the.... inherent misogyny? Yes. Yes we do.
So if the lady I'm with is cold and I offer her my jacket...it's because I hate women?
If you have some kind of relationship with this person, then I would say its just doing something nice for someone you care about. If the woman is a stranger, then that strikes me as a little creepy and you may be a bit of a misogynist.
Not really. The important thing isn't to be a dick to women, it's to not assume that they need men to take care of everything for them. It becomes misogyny when you expect her to repay you loaning her your jacket in trade, or when you try to force her to take it despite anything she says about not needing it, or otherwise treat them as either a sex-object, a child, or an invalid. If you're outside talking to a girl while you both smoke cigarettes and she says she's freezing you can offer her your jacket without being anything. If you're not dressed warmly enough to go without your jacket then you look pathetic. There's basically a whole lot more to it than your oversimplification.
I don't know about that. In that scenario, assuming the woman is otherwise healthy, I would say offering her a jacket is going beyond the call of duty in a way; suggesting that you do in fact believe women need to be taken care of. But I admit its possible that I just view loaning articles of clothing to strangers to be a stronger gesture than you do.
If I loan someone my jacket because she says she's freezing I believe women need to be taken care of? How does that interpretation make more sense than that I believe she is capable of determining that she is in fact very cold and doesn't just have some tic where she says random crazy nonsense at arbitrary intervals?
Like I said, I think in this case I just happen to put more significance into this particular deed than you do. Being courteous is on thing, but if you are sacrificing your own comfort to such an extent for a stranger then that would cause me to read more into it.
Why would I offer my jacket if I'm going to freeze without it?
Exactly. In the scenario I envisioned the man would be doing just that, which in my mind would indicate a certain level of misogyny.
It seems that in most women's minds it just makes him pathetic. Mind I could be wrong, I'm not a woman so I just have to assume that what they tell me is true.
Exactly. In the scenario I envisioned the man would be doing just that, which in my mind would indicate a certain level of misogyny.
It seems that in most women's minds it just makes him pathetic. Mind I could be wrong, I'm not a woman so I just have to assume that what they tell me is true.
Yea, I get that. When I say its creepy I mean in the he is trying too hard way.
Examples include forcing women to tend to all domestic responsibilities, not allowing women to take jobs outside the home, or beating women. Subscribers to one model, the mother/whore dichotomy, hold that women can only be "mothers" or "whores." Another variant is the virgin/whore dichotomy, in which women who do not adhere to a saintly standard of moral purity (Abrahamic) are considered "whores".
Frequently, the term misogynist is used in a looser sense as a term of derision to describe anyone who holds an unpopular or distasteful view about women as a group. A man who considers himself "a great lover of women," therefore, might somewhat paradoxically be termed a misogynist by those who consider his treatment of women sexist, such as sex-negative feminists. Archetypes of this type of man might be Giacomo Casanova and Don Juan, who were both reputed for their many libertine affairs with women.
Not necessarily hatred, but traditional social memes.
Just as a...the more you know. Not arguing that it hasn't been tossed around here.
Posts
It's really simple.
In the game of attraction, women make themselves visible and attractive for many potential suitors.
But men can't play this same game as women. Women will never zero in on any specific man, there's too many of them orbiting around them. Too much noise. If a man seeks to make himself visible to a woman he does it by confronting her and giving her attention.
wrong?
That's really funny.
Because it's the exact opposite of how my girlfriend and I met.
You see - we mutually zeroed in on each other.
And also - get your definition of feminism right. We're all fucking feminists unless you're a douche.
I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I had to laugh.
Doesn't making the word feminism so broad that it encompasses everyone who isn't a douche effectively make the term useless?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
You underestimate the size of the set "douche". By a lot.
Feminists believe in gender equality.
And there are some people that believe, whether stated explicitly or not, that this should not be so.
So no, I'm pretty sure that the definition is just fine.
For the sake of most web based arguments, feminism is either everyone who agrees with you, or a subset of raving loons who cause a fuss for no good reason depending on whether you are for them or against them.
I'm almost doing both. He must realise how fucking wrong he is or he must be have been living in a very small room without any social interaction at all, his whole "life".
@Obs, do women not zero in on males? You haven't even met one right? It happens just as often as the opposite way, that is what I've experienced and everyone except you. Why shouldn't women zero in on men, you have no clue do you.
Given the amount of stupid you've spat out on this page alone this is last time ever I will pay attention to anything you post, the forum would be a whole lot better off if others would just ignore you as well.
Nope, you can actually keep your absurd judgements. If I only would help women, and viewed men as having to get by for themselves, then that would be dickish. However if there is an equal choice between who I hold the door open for, and I always choose the woman, theres nothing wrong with that on any level. The same number of people had doors held for them, and I got to follow my preferences. This is what having a preference means.
If I was placed in a position of authority over more than my own actions, and used that to only help women, or only help men then that would be dickish since once you gain authority society demands you set some personal preferences aside.
And into the warm glow of another computer, set up to a completely different forum, sheltered from the realities of the world, left alone to brood over the goldfish not found in a pet store, but the ones found in the grain aisle of a Costco wholesale food store.
I mean who doesn't have like 8 extended family members who are just woaaaah racist/sexist douches? Is that just me?
Naw, I find Obs amusing, talking with my girlfriend over Skype and we are laughing our asses off at his comments.
It's amusing in a sad way though, like watching a train filled to the brim with puppies and clowns derail into a bubblegum lake.
Not really. The important thing isn't to be a dick to women, it's to not assume that they need men to take care of everything for them. It becomes misogyny when you expect her to repay you loaning her your jacket in trade, or when you try to force her to take it despite anything she says about not needing it, or otherwise treat them as either a sex-object, a child, or an invalid. If you're outside talking to a girl while you both smoke cigarettes and she says she's freezing you can offer her your jacket without being anything. If you're not dressed warmly enough to go without your jacket then you look pathetic. There's basically a whole lot more to it than your oversimplification.
There are four pages of impossible so far. And that's if you've got your viewing options set to the maximum posts per page. How do you reconcile this?
I don't know about that. In that scenario, assuming the woman is otherwise healthy, I would say offering her a jacket is going beyond the call of duty in a way; suggesting that you do in fact believe women need to be taken care of. But I admit its possible that I just view loaning articles of clothing to strangers to be a stronger gesture than you do.
And I'm generally a pretty selfless person. I always think of others' needs before my own in social interactions etc. But in life or death? I don't think I should stand back just because I usually care about others before myself. I don't want to die just as much as the rest.
And as others have said, there are still plenty of factors that would influence my decision. If I were elderly then I wouldn't mind dying as much.
If I loan someone my jacket because she says she's freezing I believe women need to be taken care of? How does that interpretation make more sense than that I believe she is capable of determining that she is in fact very cold and doesn't just have some tic where she says random crazy nonsense at arbitrary intervals?
Like I said, I think in this case I just happen to put more significance into this particular deed than you do. Being courteous is on thing, but if you are sacrificing your own comfort to such an extent for a stranger then that would cause me to read more into it.
I'm not good at laughing at his sort of mentality, or rather his idiocy is very amusing but I know he is dangerous. Because people of his kind are the one reason the world is not perfect. I'm not just talking about the misogyny but his complete ignorance on any presented subject whatsoever and his apparent hatred of anything that is not him (though he might and certainly should hate himself as well).
This question is stupid and missing the point, almost purposely.
You'd be sexist in this situation only if you'd have your jacket to cold women and never to cold men who ask for your jacket. I have a feeling that you understood this before asking.
Yea, I am going to say you have completely misinterpreted my meaning.
Edit: If it makes thing clearer, I would put this into the just being courteous category. Giving the person a cigarette that is.
Why would I offer my jacket if I'm going to freeze without it?
It seems that in most women's minds it just makes him pathetic. Mind I could be wrong, I'm not a woman so I just have to assume that what they tell me is true.
Yea, I get that. When I say its creepy I mean in the he is trying too hard way.
Also, for a forum filled with a rabid hatred of all things Ayn Rand, there's a lot of objectivists running around here.
Yes, I do. And they're not synonyms but it's pretty tough to be a misogynist without also being a sexist.
Chivarly is misogynistic? Maybe some of the people here forgot what the word means.
Saying chivalry is misogynistic is like saying a Klansmen would give up his seat on the lifeboat for a black guy because he hates them all so much.
Not necessarily hatred, but traditional social memes.
Just as a...the more you know. Not arguing that it hasn't been tossed around here.