Ok, I am coming from an uneducated place in terms of the comics, but can someone enlighten me as to why there are male Amazons?
They aren't Amazons really, it was just a misnomer used by DiDio.
Basically Zeus figured the Amazons were a lost cause and started a similar order that's made up of men.
Is it bad that this makes me sad because it is historically inaccurate? I know it's not anyway but still...
Would have been cooler if they were Scythians. If I remember right, the common probably-a-myth-but-a-good-story is that the Scythians, of the all-male military, met with the Amazons, of the all-female military, and each culture took a long look at the other and though "Ooooh who is that tall drink of water?" Then they became one culture with a unisex and presumably awesome military.
Ok, I am coming from an uneducated place in terms of the comics, but can someone enlighten me as to why there are male Amazons?
They aren't Amazons really, it was just a misnomer used by DiDio.
Basically Zeus figured the Amazons were a lost cause and started a similar order that's made up of men.
Is it bad that this makes me sad because it is historically inaccurate? I know it's not anyway but still...
Would have been cooler if they were Scythians. If I remember right, the common probably-a-myth-but-a-good-story is that the Scythians, of the all-male military, met with the Amazons, of the all-female military, and each culture took a long look at the other and though "Ooooh who is that tall drink of water?" Then they became one culture with a unisex and presumably awesome military.
Ok, I am coming from an uneducated place in terms of the comics, but can someone enlighten me as to why there are male Amazons?
They aren't Amazons really, it was just a misnomer used by DiDio.
Basically Zeus figured the Amazons were a lost cause and started a similar order that's made up of men.
Is it bad that this makes me sad because it is historically inaccurate? I know it's not anyway but still...
Would have been cooler if they were Scythians. If I remember right, the common probably-a-myth-but-a-good-story is that the Scythians, of the all-male military, met with the Amazons, of the all-female military, and each culture took a long look at the other and though "Ooooh who is that tall drink of water?" Then they became one culture with a unisex and presumably awesome military.
Yeah, see, this sounds much better.
They aren't meant to be chummy with one another. The Amazons have been dubbed obsolete, essentially.
And historical accuracy has no place here, considering it's happening during the present in a fictional universe.
Well the Greek Pantheon is going through some changes right now as well. Athena died and Zeus pretty much went insane.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I'm pretty sure Athena's not actually dead.
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Quoththe RavenMiami, FL FOR REALRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I think that I don't get why historical accuracy can't have a place in something. Why make stuff up when there are perfectly good existing ideas to poach/subvert, thus lending the story additional gravitas that it otherwise might lack? I am thinking of things like Sandman, which uses ancient historical figures well while giving them a new spin.
I'm not being all nerdragey, by the by. I mean, as stated, we're talking about a fictional universe with fictional people doing fantastic things. I might as well complain about characters in a medieval fantasy setting wearing historically inaccurate armor.
I think that I don't get why historical accuracy can't have a place in something. Why make stuff up when there are perfectly good existing ideas to poach/subvert, thus lending the story additional gravitas that it otherwise might lack? I am thinking of things like Sandman, which uses ancient historical figures well while giving them a new spin.
I'm not being all nerdragey, by the by. I mean, as stated, we're talking about a fictional universe with fictional people doing fantastic things. I might as well complain about characters in a medieval fantasy setting wearing historically inaccurate armor.
Well, the context within the fictional universe is different. For example, the thing with Hercules actually happened! Argo? Happened. Troy? Happened. Gods? Exist! So she's taking from ideas that are somewhat more fundamental than, say, the scythians, because they work better within the context of the story.
Also, they need to be equal to the Amazons, for obvious thematic reasons. Although, I'm still wondering if Odysseus and Orion are going to help everyone avoid the "pointless fighting" stage.
Wonder Woman is in trinity because she's the most famous superhero with a vagina. Who isn't a copy of a male superhero.
This comment seems so mind-numbingly stupid to me. The "trinity" isn't some new thing DC just cooked up, they are historically the three most popular characters.
And why is she one of the most popular/well known characters? Because she's one of the oldest female heroes. I would estimate that most of her popularity with the baby boomer crowd is due to Linda Carter, and any popularity she has now is due to being the longest running original female superhero. Because frankly, what else is there on the dc side? Manhunter?
It seems like every time I see wonder woman in the books I DO buy with her in them, she's basically the face of the feminist movement. I really think that this isn't due to her personality or character per se, but because there is no one else.
The problem with Wonder Woman is that she's too old-fashioned and out of touch with today's America. What we need is a new look that lets today's American female identify with a hero that's just like them:
I have much fear about a Wonder Woman live action movie. Her mythos and pretty much everything about her is so inconsistent that a movie would probably try to capture too much and end up with nothing.
That being said, in the hands of a capable writer and director, a Wonder Woman movie could be exactly what the brand needs to solidify her mythos once and for all.
I still think a Joss Whedon Wonder Woman would be the best thing ever, but it doesn't look like that will ever happen.
I don't think trying to capture too much has been a common problem with superhero films, though. In fact, the first order of business with most adaptations seems to be streamlining everything so it can fit in 2 hours.
That said, the film could still suck horribly. I just think it would be for other reasons, like casting. If you went down the list of good casting of female roles in superhero films and bad casting, you'd end up with a very short column on the left and a very long one on the right.
I have much fear about a Wonder Woman live action movie. Her mythos and pretty much everything about her is so inconsistent that a movie would probably try to capture too much and end up with nothing.
That being said, in the hands of a capable writer and director, a Wonder Woman movie could be exactly what the brand needs to solidify her mythos once and for all.
I still think a Joss Whedon Wonder Woman would be the best thing ever, but it doesn't look like that will ever happen.
They could just work with the animated movie's origin. That was awesome.
I don't even know who I would cast as Wonder Woman. Back in the day, Lucy Lawless was always a favorite pick, but I've always been against that idea. She's not a very good actress. She'd do ok at action scenes, but I don't see her interpretation of the character being very deep. And she's way too old now anyway.
Actually, Malin Ackerman didn't do a half bad job as Laurie in Watchmen, but I don't know if DC would want to use her again.
Wow yeah, she'd be perfect. I forgot about her since really the only thing I've seen her in is the Matrix but at least in terms of physical appearance she'd be perfect for the job.
I really really loved Greg Rucka's run on Wonder Woman; it's what actually got me into comics. The Diana there had a purpose that wasn't just Superman with tits, had a great supporting cast, and was leading up to an interesting political conflict. Unfortunately they fucked it all up with Infinite Crisis, then even more so with Amazons Attack. Even Simone's run, while great, feels too much like damage control from those two events.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I really really loved Greg Rucka's run on Wonder Woman; it's what actually got me into comics. The Diana there had a purpose that wasn't just Superman with tits, had a great supporting cast, and was leading up to an interesting political conflict. Unfortunately they fucked it all up with Infinite Crisis, then even more so with Amazons Attack. Even Simone's run, while great, feels too much like damage control from those two events.
Honestly, that's mostly because Simone, for some ungodsly reason, decided to respect all the crap stuff that came before. I mean yes, that's a professional attitude, but there should be limits.
I thought she left Birds of Prey to do the New Atom. She was on it for like 20 issues before she switched to Wonder Woman.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
She gave up Atom to focus on Wonder Woman, as she realized she needed to put more focus on fixing the bigger name character. She left BoP initially to focus on a bigger "Woman's book", because when she left BoP she was hinting that she was still going to write strong female characters.
Her Atom run was great, especially with Byrne as the artist (they worked well together on Action Comics too), then Remender completely screwed it up (Oliffe had good art though)
The only thing wrong with Simone's run so far seems to have been the movie two parter with the storytime Queen. That and having Cassie's battle armor have a midrift to it, which defeats the purpose of wearing armor in the first place. But let's chalk that one up to Lopresti.
Her Atom run was great, especially with Byrne as the artist (they worked well together on Action Comics too), then Remender completely screwed it up (Oliffe had good art though)
You really can't blame Remender for much, since DC Editorial screwed the book up long before he was brought in. Remember the utterly pointless Countdown crossover? That shit was abysmal.
Anyway, I've been intending on reading Rucka's run of Wonder Woman for a while now. Anyone know where to start? Are they all collected in trades?
Her Atom run was great, especially with Byrne as the artist (they worked well together on Action Comics too), then Remender completely screwed it up (Oliffe had good art though)
You really can't blame Remender for much, since DC Editorial screwed the book up long before he was brought in. Remember the utterly pointless Countdown crossover? That shit was abysmal.
Anyway, I've been intending on reading Rucka's run of Wonder Woman for a while now. Anyone know where to start? Are they all collected in trades?
You should actually start with Wonder Woman: The Hiketeia, a stand alone TPB which starts off the Rucka-flavoured Wonder Woman. It's really good and mixes both Batman (!) and Diana's Greek Myth background. Rucka's official run starts at issue #195 and continues until it was abruptly cut short by Infinite Crisis. They all should be collected in trades.
If you went down the list of good casting of female roles in all films and bad casting, you'd end up with a very short column on the left and a very long one on the right.
Fixed, because the problem is a hell of a lot more systemic than with just comic book movies.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I don't think Wonder Woman would fare too well with Whedon either.
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Man, this is comic book mythology.
Of course DC's Gargareans aren't going to be any more faithful an adaptation than their Amazons.
Would have been cooler if they were Scythians. If I remember right, the common probably-a-myth-but-a-good-story is that the Scythians, of the all-male military, met with the Amazons, of the all-female military, and each culture took a long look at the other and though "Ooooh who is that tall drink of water?" Then they became one culture with a unisex and presumably awesome military.
man what the fuck
Yeah, see, this sounds much better.
Oh come on, who hasn't been vexed by their eyelashes at least once?
Coran Attack!
And historical accuracy has no place here, considering it's happening during the present in a fictional universe.
I'm not being all nerdragey, by the by. I mean, as stated, we're talking about a fictional universe with fictional people doing fantastic things. I might as well complain about characters in a medieval fantasy setting wearing historically inaccurate armor.
Also, they need to be equal to the Amazons, for obvious thematic reasons. Although, I'm still wondering if Odysseus and Orion are going to help everyone avoid the "pointless fighting" stage.
And why is she one of the most popular/well known characters? Because she's one of the oldest female heroes. I would estimate that most of her popularity with the baby boomer crowd is due to Linda Carter, and any popularity she has now is due to being the longest running original female superhero. Because frankly, what else is there on the dc side? Manhunter?
It seems like every time I see wonder woman in the books I DO buy with her in them, she's basically the face of the feminist movement. I really think that this isn't due to her personality or character per se, but because there is no one else.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Honestly I'm not a massive fan of Batman or Superman either, but I liked them in that as well. Wagner seemed to really get the characters.
Plus WW and Ra's Al Ghul having a swordfight on top of a submarine is brilliant. BRILLIANT!
Is this some sort of deep cultural observation that you are trying to make? Are you saying that the modern woman is empty? What does this mean!
a live action flick for her could be a good thing.
That being said, in the hands of a capable writer and director, a Wonder Woman movie could be exactly what the brand needs to solidify her mythos once and for all.
I still think a Joss Whedon Wonder Woman would be the best thing ever, but it doesn't look like that will ever happen.
That said, the film could still suck horribly. I just think it would be for other reasons, like casting. If you went down the list of good casting of female roles in superhero films and bad casting, you'd end up with a very short column on the left and a very long one on the right.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
They could just work with the animated movie's origin. That was awesome.
I heard that Whedon's ideas for WW were terrible.
Actually, Malin Ackerman didn't do a half bad job as Laurie in Watchmen, but I don't know if DC would want to use her again.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
She did do a fully awful job though.
Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
Wow yeah, she'd be perfect. I forgot about her since really the only thing I've seen her in is the Matrix but at least in terms of physical appearance she'd be perfect for the job.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Her Atom run was great, especially with Byrne as the artist (they worked well together on Action Comics too), then Remender completely screwed it up (Oliffe had good art though)
The only thing wrong with Simone's run so far seems to have been the movie two parter with the storytime Queen. That and having Cassie's battle armor have a midrift to it, which defeats the purpose of wearing armor in the first place. But let's chalk that one up to Lopresti.
You really can't blame Remender for much, since DC Editorial screwed the book up long before he was brought in. Remember the utterly pointless Countdown crossover? That shit was abysmal.
Anyway, I've been intending on reading Rucka's run of Wonder Woman for a while now. Anyone know where to start? Are they all collected in trades?
You should actually start with Wonder Woman: The Hiketeia, a stand alone TPB which starts off the Rucka-flavoured Wonder Woman. It's really good and mixes both Batman (!) and Diana's Greek Myth background. Rucka's official run starts at issue #195 and continues until it was abruptly cut short by Infinite Crisis. They all should be collected in trades.
How, exactly, would that be? Since I am apparently one of maybe five GV posters who doesn't worship at the altar of Joss Whedon.
Fixed, because the problem is a hell of a lot more systemic than with just comic book movies.
I have no idea who would direct it well.