But I mean, now we're just doing useless theory crafting, because I can sit here all day and go "LOLOLOLOLOOL JUST USE FLASH AND THEN POP IT BEFORE ANYONE KNOWS WHATS UP"
Luckily my Annie has Bearstun up and Taric, TF, Shen and Udyr are ready to stun.
Regarding the whole wards business, it's good that they're starting to look at the whole warding thing. I'm not entirely sure why they think having wards take three hits is going to make it more balanced for melee to kill them instead of ranged, but whatever.
But at the moment, pink wards are horribly expensive (especially for their duration), and I think there should be some mid-tier ward that can be used to detect stealthed characters but not wards, and lasts close to if not exactly as long as green wards.
And Oracles is a horrible risk:reward item. If you're in a strong position and the enemy has a stealthed character and is warding a bit, it's a massive reward for minimal risk. Destroy their map awareness and one of their characters at once. On the other hand, if you're not doing so well, and are in the same position otherwise, it's a horrific risk:reward item.
They could just make vanilla sight (green) wards detect stealthed champions but not any other stealthed object. I would be totally fine with that.
Although honestly I think it would be better if they just re-worked stealth in general to be more similar to Shaco's where you can move around freely for short bursts but not be impervious to detection for a long time like Eve/Twitch.
@surrealitycheck: I'm not complaining about Eve being overpowered. I still don't think she is. But there's a difference between saying "this is not good for the game", and "this is not balanced".
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
He's great if the other team is dumb enough to play to his strengths and dead weight if they're not.
Disagree. See Mooman, then disagree with yourself.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Nah dude it's cool. You don't need to worry. Riot have already said stealth in its current incarnation is overpowered and is getting reworked. BTW Eve is getting banned 9/10 games at top elo now
He's great if the other team is dumb enough to play to his strengths and dead weight if they're not.
Disagree. See Mooman, then disagree with yourself.
so we can then determine that sion is awful
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I love complete fucking morons on my team. Apparently jungle Evelynn requires mia calls and me telling everyone at the start of the game to drop pink wards against his was completely ignored and Evelynn ganked the fuck out of bottom. Fuck yea
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I will be happy when the ganking metagame ends because it's just so annoying
It's even annoying when you're the jungler because then you have those assholes who are on your team keeping a tally, like "So Eve has ganked four times Warwick has ganked only once gg"
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
"where was miss???????" is the best response to getting ganked by a jungler.
I will be happy when the ganking metagame ends because it's just so annoying
It's even annoying when you're the jungler because then you have those assholes who are on your team keeping a tally, like "So Eve has ganked four times Warwick has ganked only once gg"
It was great this morning when my team had no junglers, enemy had jungle udyr, udyr ganked top 5 times and I told them to buy wards after getting ganked 1 time and they still didnt buy wards.
Wards are so cheap I always buy 2 of them even if i cant find a spot to put them down, at least i have them!
Yeah, I played a ranked game last night as Kog'Maw mid. First trip back, boots, 2 hp pots, and 3 WARDS. Top lane with solo Kennan? WARDS.
Bottom lane? "OMG GUYS CALL MIA!!" Me: "Their Rammus was jungling. Notice how me and Kennan have wards set up? Even our jungle Shaco has wards. Notice how none of us have died."
The problem stealth has right now is that with the exception of Shaco, it's all-or nothing. You either have ward/oracles out or don't. So a stealth character essentially has two modes that they have to be balanced between. If a stealth character is capably powerful without stealth, then in stealth they tend to be absolutely unstoppable. If they're balanced in stealth, then they're dead useless outside it. Shaco is the only character whose stealth is balanced because it's temporary and thus not as strong, so his de-stealthed balance is stronger to compensate. Teemo, too, but only because his playstyle is odd and not too ganky.
I think Eve and Twitch's stealth would work better if it were similar to a mix between Shaco and Teemo's-only doable in a bush, on a timer once they leave (and make them "fade out" to nearby players). Stealth players can still sneak in for well-timed ganks, but can't just stealth and sit around.
I will be happy when the ganking metagame ends because it's just so annoying
It's even annoying when you're the jungler because then you have those assholes who are on your team keeping a tally, like "So Eve has ganked four times Warwick has ganked only once gg"
Especially when your lanes push to the towers. Makes them easy gank targets, and makes it impossible for you to gank.
I will be happy when the ganking metagame ends because it's just so annoying
It's even annoying when you're the jungler because then you have those assholes who are on your team keeping a tally, like "So Eve has ganked four times Warwick has ganked only once gg"
i seriously wonder why you play this game
you seem to dislike so much of it.
I like laning against people
I like teamfighting over map objectives
I like winning
I like that satisfying sounds Teemo makes when he dies
It was great this morning when my team had no junglers, enemy had jungle udyr, udyr ganked top 5 times and I told them to buy wards after getting ganked 1 time and they still didnt buy wards.
Wards are so cheap I always buy 2 of them even if i cant find a spot to put them down, at least i have them!
I buy more and more wards lately and just throw them down everywhere. It's so much easier to fit a ward or two into a buy now that they're 75g. Not unusual for me to buy 5-10 wards in a game lately. This may not seem like a huge amount to you arranged 5s guys, but in solo queue if I had a teammate who bought five wards I would probably die of sheer joy.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Here's a thought too: Make all wards stealth-detecting and drop the price to, say, 75 gold, but have the price increase slowly over time. That way wards are still buyable without gimping yourself early game, but you still can't ward the entire fucking map mid-late.
I'm pretty sure the matchmaking system is trolling me. I keep getting on horrendously unbalanced teams, and I'm the only one on my side with a positive KD ratio.
This was the last game about 12 minutes in.
It was about 1/17 (I had the only kill) at our worst. I think the game ended 15/45.
At one point two of their guys disconnected, and I said we should surrender so that they get leaver status just to troll them.
One of them said I was the reason he hated the internet. I was so proud..
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I can't comprehend how these people can easily avoid ganks from junglers but choose to not do prevent it. Do they just want to be complete failures? Is that why the play ranked, so they can look as horrible as possible?
I lost my first game today as jungle Udyr after completely shutting down the other jungle which was a Warwick without Smite. The first 15 minutes of the game I'm taking his blue and red, keeping mine warded so I can gank him at mine and then take them and its going perfect, my team is ganking him when he goes for them but bottom is feeding Pantheon like a mother fucker. One has 2 deaths and the other has 4 before 20 minutes and its just done. I ended with 0/4 because I can't gank Mundo at top, Vlad is in mid and Pantheon is too fed at bottom. It was a miserable game. So that my team leader didn't ban anyone at all at the start of the game even though we all said Pantheon. GG
Then the idiots not using wards in the seconds. I will find a way to rise above this sea of idiots and actually win games.
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
if an enemy puts down more than 5 wards at once buy a freaking oracles and clean them up. 400 gold spent, 125 gold+ back. Cost of 375+ to your enemy. Net win = You're team. Oracles breaks even as an investment at 4 ward kills (assuming of course you are killing recently placed wards).
Shen thought it was a good idea to get all snowball items and no MR. We had dragon control (thanks sylem!) and almost equal towers, and even kills...but we couldn't win a team fight and I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Shens items. I was tankier than he was.
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MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Caitlyn's traps vs stealthers is hilarious in the laning phase. At level 2 I start plunking down traps on the corners of the bushes closest to their tower on top/bottom lane if I'm not mid. And having Twtich run into one of them behind our line is a happy first blood!
Of course they generally stop running into the bushes from the corners, or at all, after a while.
You have to be some kind of bad to play shen and manage to snag the most deaths on your own team.
Also that entire team is bad for not buying anything but token magic resist against a vlad with over 450 AP.
He was the only magic damage, and got shut down pretty hard until late. I started to work on some MR but from buying all the teams wards (well glirk did too) and potting for every fight (I thought every fight would be our last, but the other team was horrible) I never got to BV.
I think the vlad started out like 3/5 or something like that, he wasn't a problem at all in team fights until the end.
A single magic resist item that costs 720 gold is sufficent. Also you said 'all snowball items' but I only see one? On top of this warwick and Gragas do significant magic damage.
A single magic resist item that costs 720 gold is sufficent. Also you said 'all snowball items' but I only see one? On top of this warwick and Gragas do significant magic damage.
Gragas wasn't really doing any damage and warwick got shut down early as well (thanks for the wards sylem!) also his magic damage isn't really significant. And no a single 720 gold MR item is not sufficient when vlad gets that much AP.
Still a snowball item, it gets better the later the game goes and he still didn't even max it out.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Fizban, how do you go about last hitting? For a 43 minute game, 81 creep score is incredibly low (unless you were jungling). Your team, honestly, did similarly badly. I mean, yeah, your Shen built badly (and I'm not a particular fan of some of those other builds, or your lack of CC as a team) but the horrendously low creep score on everyone but Sivir sticks out like a sore thumb.
Fizban, how do you go about last hitting? For a 43 minute game, 81 creep score is incredibly low (unless you were jungling). Your team, honestly, did similarly badly. I mean, yeah, your Shen built badly (and I'm not a particular fan of some of those other builds, or your lack of CC as a team) but the horrendously low creep score on everyone but Sivir sticks out like a sore thumb.
I am a little new to last hitting with melee characters (usually jungle with them) but we were laned against Pants and Gragas which was a little tough and we got zoned a bunch. Lux would get stunned by pants, I would dive in then she would have to go back and heal and I would be zoned out. Although to our credit we killed them twice in lane (lux died once, had to b the other time) and didn't die in the laning phase.
I usually do great with ranged though, mid or top.
I'm just saying, the Lady of Luminosity should reveal stealthed units.
Giant laser beam of light>Whatever the fuck Twitch is doing.
i was so sad when i found out they removed illumination's ability to have sight on people who are marked with it, even stealthers. woulda made lasers even more fun
though knowing that they can be seen might make people juke more, which would suck, kind of like if you clairvoyance them they start juking sometimes
it is better when you do it blind and they don't expect it cause they are too busy going "OH GOD 100 HEALTH RUN AWAY"
all that needs to be said about sion is: 2 second stun on a 4.8 second cooldown
TWO SECOND STUN
ON A 4.8 SECOND COOLDOWN
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I am a little new to last hitting with melee characters (usually jungle with them) but we were laned against Pants and Gragas which was a little tough and we got zoned a bunch. Lux would get stunned by pants, I would dive in then she would have to go back and heal and I would be zoned out.
Yeah, that wouldn't be a bad lane if your Lux weren't awful. But I assume you're not auto-attacking the mobs beyond balancing the waves?
Unrelated note; why do cooks insist on defacing pizzas with onion? Seriously.
I am a little new to last hitting with melee characters (usually jungle with them) but we were laned against Pants and Gragas which was a little tough and we got zoned a bunch. Lux would get stunned by pants, I would dive in then she would have to go back and heal and I would be zoned out.
Yeah, that wouldn't be a bad lane if your Lux weren't awful. But I assume you're not auto-attacking the mobs beyond balancing the waves?
Unrelated note; why do cooks insist on defacing pizzas with onion? Seriously.
Onions are delicious.
But yeah I was just last hitting for the most part, the enemy was fortunately not so they pushed hard and I had a chance to take advantage of my passive. The Lux was not terrible, just way too aggressive, she kept getting caught by pants leaping out of the brush and stunning her, I would jump in, knock him up and he would usually run but she caught a stun on him once and we killed him.
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And Orem, I seem to remember you saying something about wards and oracles making eve useless. Hm.
They could just make vanilla sight (green) wards detect stealthed champions but not any other stealthed object. I would be totally fine with that.
Although honestly I think it would be better if they just re-worked stealth in general to be more similar to Shaco's where you can move around freely for short bursts but not be impervious to detection for a long time like Eve/Twitch.
@surrealitycheck: I'm not complaining about Eve being overpowered. I still don't think she is. But there's a difference between saying "this is not good for the game", and "this is not balanced".
Disagree. See Mooman, then disagree with yourself.
I just haven't seen an impactful Sion in a very long time.
Would not mind seeing a good one in action.
anyone who was playing with me last night
i would like to apologize
for being fucking awesome
sorry i made you all look so bad.
love,
mooman
so we can then determine that sion is awful
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
It's even annoying when you're the jungler because then you have those assholes who are on your team keeping a tally, like "So Eve has ganked four times Warwick has ganked only once gg"
i seriously wonder why you play this game
you seem to dislike so much of it.
Wards are so cheap I always buy 2 of them even if i cant find a spot to put them down, at least i have them!
Bottom lane? "OMG GUYS CALL MIA!!" Me: "Their Rammus was jungling. Notice how me and Kennan have wards set up? Even our jungle Shaco has wards. Notice how none of us have died."
I think Eve and Twitch's stealth would work better if it were similar to a mix between Shaco and Teemo's-only doable in a bush, on a timer once they leave (and make them "fade out" to nearby players). Stealth players can still sneak in for well-timed ganks, but can't just stealth and sit around.
Especially when your lanes push to the towers. Makes them easy gank targets, and makes it impossible for you to gank.
deathcap deathcap
what do we like?
deathcap deathcap
of course that does bring of the issue of having 0 defensive items on sona 40 minutes in against xin
I like laning against people
I like teamfighting over map objectives
I like winning
I like that satisfying sounds Teemo makes when he dies
And some more things
I buy more and more wards lately and just throw them down everywhere. It's so much easier to fit a ward or two into a buy now that they're 75g. Not unusual for me to buy 5-10 wards in a game lately. This may not seem like a huge amount to you arranged 5s guys, but in solo queue if I had a teammate who bought five wards I would probably die of sheer joy.
You were streets ahead.
This was the last game about 12 minutes in.
It was about 1/17 (I had the only kill) at our worst. I think the game ended 15/45.
At one point two of their guys disconnected, and I said we should surrender so that they get leaver status just to troll them.
One of them said I was the reason he hated the internet. I was so proud..
I lost my first game today as jungle Udyr after completely shutting down the other jungle which was a Warwick without Smite. The first 15 minutes of the game I'm taking his blue and red, keeping mine warded so I can gank him at mine and then take them and its going perfect, my team is ganking him when he goes for them but bottom is feeding Pantheon like a mother fucker. One has 2 deaths and the other has 4 before 20 minutes and its just done. I ended with 0/4 because I can't gank Mundo at top, Vlad is in mid and Pantheon is too fed at bottom. It was a miserable game. So that my team leader didn't ban anyone at all at the start of the game even though we all said Pantheon. GG
Then the idiots not using wards in the seconds. I will find a way to rise above this sea of idiots and actually win games.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Shen thought it was a good idea to get all snowball items and no MR. We had dragon control (thanks sylem!) and almost equal towers, and even kills...but we couldn't win a team fight and I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Shens items. I was tankier than he was.
Of course they generally stop running into the bushes from the corners, or at all, after a while.
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
Also that entire team is bad for not buying anything but token magic resist against a vlad with over 450 AP.
I think the vlad started out like 3/5 or something like that, he wasn't a problem at all in team fights until the end.
people who say sion is meh just don't know dawg.
dey don't know.
Gragas wasn't really doing any damage and warwick got shut down early as well (thanks for the wards sylem!) also his magic damage isn't really significant. And no a single 720 gold MR item is not sufficient when vlad gets that much AP.
Shen had Warmogs and Leviathan.
You dont lose stacks when you die.
Still a snowball item, it gets better the later the game goes and he still didn't even max it out.
I am a little new to last hitting with melee characters (usually jungle with them) but we were laned against Pants and Gragas which was a little tough and we got zoned a bunch. Lux would get stunned by pants, I would dive in then she would have to go back and heal and I would be zoned out. Although to our credit we killed them twice in lane (lux died once, had to b the other time) and didn't die in the laning phase.
I usually do great with ranged though, mid or top.
i was so sad when i found out they removed illumination's ability to have sight on people who are marked with it, even stealthers. woulda made lasers even more fun
though knowing that they can be seen might make people juke more, which would suck, kind of like if you clairvoyance them they start juking sometimes
it is better when you do it blind and they don't expect it cause they are too busy going "OH GOD 100 HEALTH RUN AWAY"
all that needs to be said about sion is: 2 second stun on a 4.8 second cooldown
TWO SECOND STUN
ON A 4.8 SECOND COOLDOWN
Unrelated note; why do cooks insist on defacing pizzas with onion? Seriously.
Onions are delicious.
But yeah I was just last hitting for the most part, the enemy was fortunately not so they pushed hard and I had a chance to take advantage of my passive. The Lux was not terrible, just way too aggressive, she kept getting caught by pants leaping out of the brush and stunning her, I would jump in, knock him up and he would usually run but she caught a stun on him once and we killed him.
i regret agreeing with bethryn but i'm gonna have to on this one