Warmogs is not a snowball item as traditionally defined. Its pretty easy to stack up and warmogs with half stacks is still an effective item. Calling warmogs a snowball item is like calling any item that you have to assemble a snowball item. Yes a FoN instead of a levi would have been much better but warmogs is hardly a wasted item on shen.
I define snowball items as items that are significantly worse with no stacks, and cost you something if you die. Warmogs doesnt fit in either of these categories, as its still effective with no stacks. Calling warmogs a snowball item is like calling the rod of ages a snowball item. Deathcap is a snowball item too because it gets more effecitve the more AP items you get by your logic.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
i was so sad when i found out they removed illumination's ability to have sight on people who are marked with it, even stealthers. woulda made lasers even more fun
though knowing that they can be seen might make people juke more, which would suck, kind of like if you clairvoyance them they start juking sometimes
it is better when you do it blind and they don't expect it cause they are too busy going "OH GOD 100 HEALTH RUN AWAY"
all that needs to be said about sion is: 2 second stun on a 4.8 second cooldown
TWO SECOND STUN
ON A 4.8 SECOND COOLDOWN
I laned against a sion and blitz.
It made me hate life.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Almost as fun as Sion/Morgana.
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...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Shen thought it was a good idea to get all snowball items and no MR. We had dragon control (thanks sylem!) and almost equal towers, and even kills...but we couldn't win a team fight and I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Shens items. I was tankier than he was.
Bad Xin build. Always merc treads on xin and get wit's end over SotD. You NEED magic resist because you should be in the thick of it with charge/ult quite often.
Shen thought it was a good idea to get all snowball items and no MR. We had dragon control (thanks sylem!) and almost equal towers, and even kills...but we couldn't win a team fight and I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Shens items. I was tankier than he was.
Bad Xin build. Always merc treads on xin and get wit's end over SotD. You NEED magic resist because you should be in the thick of it with charge/ult quite often.
You did not have enough MR by far.
I end up with 170 or so with just treads/wits.
Didn't someone say Malady is always better than Wits End? I don't really have a Xin build yet, just sort of go attack speed and some defense.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
With all this Sion lovin going around maybe people with experience with Sion can post some builds? Do people get max CDR on him and what would be a good way of doing so? Also specs and stuff
This is what happens to AP champions when your enemy buys a little resist. Especially when they get most of the kills on their team and rob their AD champions of much needed gold. Not that your lone AD champion would have done anything anyway with that itemization.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
You mean I kill everybody but my team still fails? The resist caused me bsaically no trouble at all
Almost. Morg lacks the ability to pull you to her after you get stunned by sion under your own tower, pop you in the air and get wailed on by both champions (with sions shield bursting too)
Failures at champion select are the best failures, usually because you can do something about them by not locking in early yourself.
Shen thought it was a good idea to get all snowball items and no MR. We had dragon control (thanks sylem!) and almost equal towers, and even kills...but we couldn't win a team fight and I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Shens items. I was tankier than he was.
Bad Xin build. Always merc treads on xin and get wit's end over SotD. You NEED magic resist because you should be in the thick of it with charge/ult quite often.
You did not have enough MR by far.
I end up with 170 or so with just treads/wits.
Didn't someone say Malady is always better than Wits End? I don't really have a Xin build yet, just sort of go attack speed and some defense.
Malady has no defensive stats. Maybe if you're ranged dps you can go malady but on melee you need to be tough.
With all this Sion lovin going around maybe people with experience with Sion can post some builds? Do people get max CDR on him and what would be a good way of doing so? Also specs and stuff
I've been going 9/0/21 with magic pen reds/quints, mana regen per level yellows/blues.
Doran's Ring and depending on how the game is going I either get a Rod of Ages or rush straight to a Deathcap and then just build more AP from there. I usually get the cooldown boots first though, they're very nice on him.
I haven't played him a whole lot but it has been working pretty well for me, the only times I've lost with this build have been when a Veigar is present on the other team.
playing as shaco to counterjungle amumu feels so...dirty
dirty and delicious
edit: much like onions
Counterjungling in general is so much fun.
Last night my team was able to fuck over a jungle Xin so much that he stopped jungling at like level 2 and laned for most of the game. The best thing is that we didn't even do that much, just took his wraiths and lizard (and left one tiny monster alive at each of course). I guess he was just that demoralized from it.
Shen thought it was a good idea to get all snowball items and no MR. We had dragon control (thanks sylem!) and almost equal towers, and even kills...but we couldn't win a team fight and I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Shens items. I was tankier than he was.
Bad Xin build. Always merc treads on xin and get wit's end over SotD. You NEED magic resist because you should be in the thick of it with charge/ult quite often.
You did not have enough MR by far.
I end up with 170 or so with just treads/wits.
Didn't someone say Malady is always better than Wits End? I don't really have a Xin build yet, just sort of go attack speed and some defense.
Malady has no defensive stats. Maybe if you're ranged dps you can go malady but on melee you need to be tough.
Wits End, Merc Treds, Yomuus, Frozen Mallet? Also I am doing hp quints and the rest is armor pen, cdr, and mp/5 (can't afford anything else). I think I went mostly defensive tree too.
With all this Sion lovin going around maybe people with experience with Sion can post some builds? Do people get max CDR on him and what would be a good way of doing so? Also specs and stuff
get the ionian boots and just blue pot once in a while personally with 15% in runes/masteries
i do like bethryn's build order with the abyssal scepter + zhonya's hourglass to make a tankier sion that can take a few hits
sheen -> deathcap -> lich bane works pretty hilariously if you don't expect much resistance from the enemy team
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Anyone playing right now?
I'm on, Tiny Angry Crab. but a game just started so I'll be a bit.
Wits End, Merc Treds, Yomuus, Frozen Mallet? Also I am doing hp quints and the rest is armor pen, cdr, and mp/5 (can't afford anything else). I think I went mostly defensive tree too.
I start with vamp sceptre, rush wriggles. Then treads, wit's end, phage, finish trinity force, then from there it depends on the enemy team for the last 2 items.
I run armor pen red, mp/5/level yellow, and magic resist per level blue/quint.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Shen thought it was a good idea to get all snowball items and no MR. We had dragon control (thanks sylem!) and almost equal towers, and even kills...but we couldn't win a team fight and I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Shens items. I was tankier than he was.
Bad Xin build. Always merc treads on xin and get wit's end over SotD. You NEED magic resist because you should be in the thick of it with charge/ult quite often.
You did not have enough MR by far.
I end up with 170 or so with just treads/wits.
Didn't someone say Malady is always better than Wits End? I don't really have a Xin build yet, just sort of go attack speed and some defense.
Malady has no defensive stats. Maybe if you're ranged dps you can go malady but on melee you need to be tough.
Wits End, Merc Treds, Yomuus, Frozen Mallet? Also I am doing hp quints and the rest is armor pen, cdr, and mp/5 (can't afford anything else). I think I went mostly defensive tree too.
Malady is a great item on ranged AS/AP hybrids like Teemo, Kayle, and TF (an argument can be made for guys like Jax but he has other priorities). It's kind of junky on pure AS guys like Xin.
SotD is the pure offensive AS choice, Wit's/Stark's/Bloodrazor (depending on need and gold available) are the defensive choices.
In other news, I can't make killer Xin work for the life of me. If he can't get those early couple kills during laning (partner gets it or its an unfavorable lane), I always seem to need to switch to tank Xin.
Wits End, Merc Treds, Yomuus, Frozen Mallet? Also I am doing hp quints and the rest is armor pen, cdr, and mp/5 (can't afford anything else). I think I went mostly defensive tree too.
I start with vamp sceptre, rush wriggles. Then treads, wit's end, phage, finish trinity force, then from there it depends on the enemy team for the last 2 items.
I run armor pen red, mp/5/level yellow, and magic resist per level blue/quint.
Vamp Scepter has to be one of the worst starting items you could ever take with Xin. The only use you'll get out of it is from autoattacking creeps, which is such a bad idea at the start of a match. If you're going to rush wriggles you should get cloth armor and 5 health pots so you can just lane to your heart's content. Or just get Doran's shield, probably his best starting item option.
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I am playing aggressively
and then I get killed
and then I say "welp we have no fucking tank this game, guess it's me *anyway*"
Of course like all my games last night were just fucking abysmal in terms of personal performance so maybe today I will have better luck.
The only wins were against short bus teams. Enemy team had Olaf, Yi, Morgana, Malphite, Cho. I ended up going Phage, Merc's, THORNMAIL, and Recurve on Xin just to stop dying and be able to tank for our team of Xin, Anivia, TF, Eve, and Teemo.
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MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
Shen thought it was a good idea to get all snowball items and no MR. We had dragon control (thanks sylem!) and almost equal towers, and even kills...but we couldn't win a team fight and I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Shens items. I was tankier than he was.
Bad Xin build. Always merc treads on xin and get wit's end over SotD. You NEED magic resist because you should be in the thick of it with charge/ult quite often.
You did not have enough MR by far.
I end up with 170 or so with just treads/wits.
Didn't someone say Malady is always better than Wits End? I don't really have a Xin build yet, just sort of go attack speed and some defense.
Malady has no defensive stats. Maybe if you're ranged dps you can go malady but on melee you need to be tough.
Wits End, Merc Treds, Yomuus, Frozen Mallet? Also I am doing hp quints and the rest is armor pen, cdr, and mp/5 (can't afford anything else). I think I went mostly defensive tree too.
Malady is a great item on ranged AS/AP hybrids like Teemo, Kayle, and TF (an argument can be made for guys like Jax but he has other priorities). It's kind of junky on pure AS guys like Xin.
SotD is the pure offensive AS choice, Wit's/Stark's/Bloodrazor (depending on need and gold available) are the defensive choices.
In other news, I can't make killer Xin work for the life of me. If he can't get those early couple kills during laning (partner gets it or its an unfavorable lane), I always seem to need to switch to tank Xin.
I'm having the same problem. Although one thing I've found is that move speed quints really help with his early lane phase, so you can GTFO or into a fight. But I still really have a hard time deciding on if ultimately HP or ArmPen Quints will help in the long run even more.
Is jungling Xin still viable? I'd imagine him being somewhat of a terror on ganks, especially with red.
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
In solo queue normal, I instantly select either Yi or Ryze depending on whether I want AD or AP. If the team doesn't get a tank, dodge. If someone picks a tank, either once they've locked in or at the very end, I'll switch to the character I want to play.
Because otherwise you pick Sion and people are like "oh cool, Sion will tank" and all pick squishies.
Malady is a great item on ranged AS/AP hybrids like Teemo, Kayle, and TF (an argument can be made for guys like Jax but he has other priorities). It's kind of junky on pure AS guys like Xin.
SotD is the pure offensive AS choice, Wit's/Stark's/Bloodrazor (depending on need and gold available) are the defensive choices.
In other news, I can't make killer Xin work for the life of me. If he can't get those early couple kills during laning (partner gets it or its an unfavorable lane), I always seem to need to switch to tank Xin.
I'm having the same problem. Although one thing I've found is that move speed quints really help with his early lane phase, so you can GTFO or into a fight. But I still really have a hard time deciding on if ultimately HP or ArmPen Quints will help in the long run even more.
Is jungling Xin still viable? I'd imagine him being somewhat of a terror on ganks, especially with red.
Jungle Xin was marginal to begin with, but the health regen on level nerf fucked him hard, so no not really.
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SaldonasSee you space cowboy...Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
I haven't tried jungle Xin in a bit but I know it's still "possible" but Xin has never been a really good jungler since he's so slow at the start. To make the most of it you usually need to go with AS runes.
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
What spells have you guys been running on your Xins? My buddy usually runs Flash/Ignite. I've been trying combinations of Ghost/Exhaust, Exhaust/Ignite, Ghost/Ignite, etc
if you could get jungling xin to work you are right, he is fucking terrifying ganking with red or double buffs
either he pops out and charges you and knocks you up and you immediately die to him + your opponent(s) in lane or he ghosts out, you flash and what have you and he charges, knocks you up, and then your lane opponents murder you
edit: ghost exhaust, can't really imagine anything different
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I define snowball items as items that are significantly worse with no stacks, and cost you something if you die. Warmogs doesnt fit in either of these categories, as its still effective with no stacks. Calling warmogs a snowball item is like calling the rod of ages a snowball item. Deathcap is a snowball item too because it gets more effecitve the more AP items you get by your logic.
Hey, that depends on stuff. When I make chili I'll throw a full onion in there to cook and absorb delicious chili flavor so I can eat that later.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Just sayin'.
see thread title
That looks so good, I'm gonna have to make make some steak and onions now
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I laned against a sion and blitz.
It made me hate life.
Bad Xin build. Always merc treads on xin and get wit's end over SotD. You NEED magic resist because you should be in the thick of it with charge/ult quite often.
You did not have enough MR by far.
I end up with 170 or so with just treads/wits.
Didn't someone say Malady is always better than Wits End? I don't really have a Xin build yet, just sort of go attack speed and some defense.
Because it has no onions in it.
dirty and delicious
edit: much like onions
This is what happens to AP champions when your enemy buys a little resist. Especially when they get most of the kills on their team and rob their AD champions of much needed gold. Not that your lone AD champion would have done anything anyway with that itemization.
The problem is that the other two dps were ap.
Caitlynn isn't a dps, she's a fail.
well.. i'll be
Almost. Morg lacks the ability to pull you to her after you get stunned by sion under your own tower, pop you in the air and get wailed on by both champions (with sions shield bursting too)
Failures at champion select are the best failures, usually because you can do something about them by not locking in early yourself.
Malady has no defensive stats. Maybe if you're ranged dps you can go malady but on melee you need to be tough.
I've been going 9/0/21 with magic pen reds/quints, mana regen per level yellows/blues.
Doran's Ring and depending on how the game is going I either get a Rod of Ages or rush straight to a Deathcap and then just build more AP from there. I usually get the cooldown boots first though, they're very nice on him.
I haven't played him a whole lot but it has been working pretty well for me, the only times I've lost with this build have been when a Veigar is present on the other team.
Counterjungling in general is so much fun.
Last night my team was able to fuck over a jungle Xin so much that he stopped jungling at like level 2 and laned for most of the game. The best thing is that we didn't even do that much, just took his wraiths and lizard (and left one tiny monster alive at each of course). I guess he was just that demoralized from it.
Feels good man.
Xicotencatl is game name.
get the ionian boots and just blue pot once in a while personally with 15% in runes/masteries
i do like bethryn's build order with the abyssal scepter + zhonya's hourglass to make a tankier sion that can take a few hits
sheen -> deathcap -> lich bane works pretty hilariously if you don't expect much resistance from the enemy team
I'm on, Tiny Angry Crab. but a game just started so I'll be a bit.
I start with vamp sceptre, rush wriggles. Then treads, wit's end, phage, finish trinity force, then from there it depends on the enemy team for the last 2 items.
I run armor pen red, mp/5/level yellow, and magic resist per level blue/quint.
SotD is the pure offensive AS choice, Wit's/Stark's/Bloodrazor (depending on need and gold available) are the defensive choices.
In other news, I can't make killer Xin work for the life of me. If he can't get those early couple kills during laning (partner gets it or its an unfavorable lane), I always seem to need to switch to tank Xin.
once i have brutalizer/ghostblade with my 66 armor pen total i hold down CTRL for smartcasting and go QWERQWERQWERQWERQWER aimed at squishies
god that game i posted the other day was awesome, they sucked
Vamp Scepter has to be one of the worst starting items you could ever take with Xin. The only use you'll get out of it is from autoattacking creeps, which is such a bad idea at the start of a match. If you're going to rush wriggles you should get cloth armor and 5 health pots so you can just lane to your heart's content. Or just get Doran's shield, probably his best starting item option.
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
with the best gangplank build
with the best gangplank runes
with the best gangplank masteries
that i stole from the best gangplank
and then I get killed
and then I say "welp we have no fucking tank this game, guess it's me *anyway*"
Of course like all my games last night were just fucking abysmal in terms of personal performance so maybe today I will have better luck.
The only wins were against short bus teams. Enemy team had Olaf, Yi, Morgana, Malphite, Cho. I ended up going Phage, Merc's, THORNMAIL, and Recurve on Xin just to stop dying and be able to tank for our team of Xin, Anivia, TF, Eve, and Teemo.
SotD is the pure offensive AS choice, Wit's/Stark's/Bloodrazor (depending on need and gold available) are the defensive choices.
In other news, I can't make killer Xin work for the life of me. If he can't get those early couple kills during laning (partner gets it or its an unfavorable lane), I always seem to need to switch to tank Xin.
I'm having the same problem. Although one thing I've found is that move speed quints really help with his early lane phase, so you can GTFO or into a fight. But I still really have a hard time deciding on if ultimately HP or ArmPen Quints will help in the long run even more.
Is jungling Xin still viable? I'd imagine him being somewhat of a terror on ganks, especially with red.
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
Because otherwise you pick Sion and people are like "oh cool, Sion will tank" and all pick squishies.
charge in from behind on enemy sona, she melts in two hits, jump to enemy xin zhao, murder him brutally, then to shen and murdered him as well
my friend who was playing singed thankfully flung taric away from us so he wasn't in range to heal any of em
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
either he pops out and charges you and knocks you up and you immediately die to him + your opponent(s) in lane or he ghosts out, you flash and what have you and he charges, knocks you up, and then your lane opponents murder you
edit: ghost exhaust, can't really imagine anything different