I'm annoyed that I'm forced to slap a weapon on myself. It would be fun to find "corpse spiders + 3" or whatever, finding "BIG CLUB +100" and being like oh well guess I'm getting a big old silly club for a few levels is annoying.
I'd love everyone to be like the DH. OR for weapon attacks to work like D2 so it didn't seem so silly.
I disagree, I got tired of EVERYTHING being about +skills in D2, that's the only stat that really mattered after you hit a few caps like max blocking or whatever. The fact that getting a weapon that does more damage actually matters to every class is nice. Sure it doesn't 'make sense' but neither did having a helmet that made you better at casting fireball which also made someone else better at raising a corpse or turning into a bear.
What bothers me is the disconnect between what's supposed to be happening conceptually, what we're seeing on screen, and what's happening mechanically.
I'm actually fine with, say, magic missile being based on weapon damage. The wizard swings the sword, a magic missile flies off the end. Obviously, magic like that has a physical component, and the weapon serves as a focus. That's great- conceptual, mechanical, and visual all line up nicely.
A skill like Impale is different. You're throwing a dagger, that's great. Why does having a better bow make you throw a dagger harder? The conceptual and the visual don't line up with the mechanical.
The monk and the witch doctor suffer the most from this, because most of their skills just make their weapons teleport out of their hands. Why can't we have punch and kick damage based off of boots and gloves, like the Assassin from D2?
This I probably all a result of how they were still making drastic changes to the mechanics years after they made the character concepts. And I don't really see a way around it now, since there's no time to go back and redo all the skill animations that don't match the new mechanics.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
It's been discussed by the Blizz devs before. They would have to do an insane amount of animation variations if they were to include those in the casting animations for the monk and witch doctor. Me, I'd rather not wait another year.
Obviously there is a bit of disconnect there, but I think the good outweigh the bad. I don't need separate items for bows/knifes/grenades/rockets/sentry turrets/bags of caltrops/Chakrams for my demon hunter.
Foolish Chaos on
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lu tzeSweeping the monestary steps.Registered Userregular
However, are you saying that the melee classes can just hover over targets with the mouse button held down and terrible, terrible damage will occur? I didn't try that except perhaps by accident, and that would make life a lot easier.
Yes.
You never noticed before? Are you new to Diablo?
You don't even have to hover over a target, just hold shift and your attack button and your character will swing away regardless.
The reason Blizzard can't just put in jar weapons that boost your corpse spider skill is because it would be completely insane of them to itemize 18 tiers of glass jars, plus legendaries, including different art for each one, that only a WD can use that only boosts a single skill, for the purpose of relieving some mild annoyance about if a Witch Doctor conceptually should be using an axe.
Weapons are less involved in some skill animations in exchange for more elaborate and varied animations. Would Blow Dart make any more sense if the WD stabbed his dagger at the air in front of him and three poison blowdarts inexplicably shot out of his face?
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
However, are you saying that the melee classes can just hover over targets with the mouse button held down and terrible, terrible damage will occur? I didn't try that except perhaps by accident, and that would make life a lot easier.
Yes.
You never noticed before? Are you new to Diablo?
You don't even have to hover over a target, just hold shift and your attack button and your character will swing away regardless.
I haven't played a Diablo melee class in quite a while.
However, are you saying that the melee classes can just hover over targets with the mouse button held down and terrible, terrible damage will occur? I didn't try that except perhaps by accident, and that would make life a lot easier.
Yes.
You never noticed before? Are you new to Diablo?
You don't even have to hover over a target, just hold shift and your attack button and your character will swing away regardless.
I haven't played a Diablo melee class in quite a while.
Melee? Shift-Attacking was invaluable to ranged classes in D2.
With Shift-click: Whelp, that meteor is totally going to fall right into that pack of monsters.
Without Shift-click: OH GOD WHY ARE YOU RUNNING INTO THAT PACK OF MONSTER FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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lu tzeSweeping the monestary steps.Registered Userregular
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
I'm sure it was a bit of conundrum for them. You give a monk a Blazing Morning star of Death that he just got from a boss. But it doesn't show up on his character cause in all honesty, he's just gonna be punching and kicking duders. Compromise? Let him show off his mighty weapon even though he won't actually be using it.
The monk was the only one where it felt really really out of place to me. The WD you're kind of doing other stuff and casting is kind of its own thing. But the monk, you are hitting them.. with the fists which were just holding powerful glowing axes.
Did it ruin my enjoyment of either class. Nope. Do I think it was odd and out of place? Yeah, a little.
It's a situation where the design benefit of having a unified mechanism for skill damage that makes everyone care about weapons equally is just way too valuable to fuck with for the sake of conceptual agreement. People need to understand that animating 3-5 weapon specific variations of every single attack skill in the monk's arsenal was most likely never really on the table. To fix the disparity here they would have had to just make all the monk animations very simplistic so that any weapon can fit ("basic attack" animations with particle effects), and frankly it would destroy the feeling of the class. Monk feels good because how how specific and hand-crafted those attack animations are. The solution they settled on allows players to still be able to see their shiny new weapons and show them off, while also letting the monks retain their carefully animated fighting kata.
I have a hardware question. My computer is a few years old, and it is capable of running D3 but it doesn't look too great. I'm wondering if I can do a cheap upgrade (like video card/RAM) without a complete overhaul, that will make a difference.
Here's what I have:
Intel Core 2 Duo 1.86 Ghz
2 Gigs of RAM
Nvidia GeForce 7900 GS
Any hardware smart people on here that could suggest where my best bet would be in terms of performace:dollars? In the beta I could get decent performance out of running at the lowest 16:10 resolution with minimized graphics settings. With vsync on, I would be at 60fps while walking through empty hallways and 30fps during combat.
If I were to upgrade the video card, would it matter? Or do I have a processor and/or RAM bottleneck?
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
Well, your first character also isn't going to have thousands of gold to blow for a while. By then you might have finally gotten a decent xbow drop anyway.
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
edit: ranged definitely looks a little more sparse than your melee options as you continue to progress, but it's not absolutely ignored, I guess you just have to supplement with solid drops/vendor usage.
Torgairon on
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
But yeah you can buy an okay xbow from the merchant if one doesn't drop for ya. I got a bunch in my beta run after level 6-7, but before then kinda sucked.
I like the monk's unarmed attacks, but I feel like there has to be a more elegant solution. Even if making gloves/boots more important than weapons isn't feasible, there's no reason not to simply add a command to sheath one's weapons until and unless they're needed for an animation.
I have a hardware question. My computer is a few years old, and it is capable of running D3 but it doesn't look too great. I'm wondering if I can do a cheap upgrade (like video card/RAM) without a complete overhaul, that will make a difference.
Here's what I have:
Intel Core 2 Duo 1.86 Ghz
2 Gigs of RAM
Nvidia GeForce 7900 GS
Any hardware smart people on here that could suggest where my best bet would be in terms of performace:dollars? In the beta I could get decent performance out of running at the lowest 16:10 resolution with minimized graphics settings. With vsync on, I would be at 60fps while walking through empty hallways and 30fps during combat.
If I were to upgrade the video card, would it matter? Or do I have a processor and/or RAM bottleneck?
Video card would help a bunch and another 2GB of RAM would be good too. Assuming you have PCIE (which I think you would on that rig but there are AGP 7900s) you can get a good GPU upgrade for under 100 I would think. Something along the lines of a 6670 to a 6770 in AMD or a 550ti in nVidia. RAM would run you another 40 for 2GB of DDR2. That said you would probably swing a refresh of CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU for under 400 that would blow it out of the water. Just depends on budget.
Melee? Shift-Attacking was invaluable to ranged classes in D2.
With Shift-click: Whelp, that meteor is totally going to fall right into that pack of monsters.
Without Shift-click: OH GOD WHY ARE YOU RUNNING INTO THAT PACK OF MONSTER FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I don't recall it being strictly necessary to my necromancer or sorceress, but that was probably due to the trees I was using.
Different topic: Anyone aware of any $10-off promotions? I missed the Newegg preorder deal and am casting about for another.
Later game weapons will most likely have + skill affixes.
I think you're stuck in a D2 mentality. There are no skill/rune levels, so how would an item add to a skill? Binding a weapon to a skill or rune is a terrible idea, IMO. I'd much rather have stats beneficial to my class so that I'm free to choose whatever skill/rune combos I want.
Later game weapons will most likely have + skill affixes.
I think you're stuck in a D2 mentality. There are no skill/rune levels, so how would an item add to a skill? Binding a weapon to a skill or rune is a terrible idea, IMO. I'd much rather have stats beneficial to my class so that I'm free to choose whatever skill/rune combos I want.
There are skill levels, you just don't see them.
And I'm talking datamined stuff here, as well as logical thinking when faced with runed skills that are only 1/5th as powerful as their old level 7 counterparts.
Later game weapons will most likely have + skill affixes.
I think you're stuck in a D2 mentality. There are no skill/rune levels, so how would an item add to a skill? Binding a weapon to a skill or rune is a terrible idea, IMO. I'd much rather have stats beneficial to my class so that I'm free to choose whatever skill/rune combos I want.
Skill affixes have been known/confirmed for a little while now.
The general understanding is that they act how the different ranks of runes used too. (when runes were still drops)
Relentless makes your skills cost no Fury while below 20% health, while Dread Bomb expends all remaining fury to deal 3% * (each point of remaining fury) damage to targets within 12 yards of the point of impact.
This probably won't work like I think it might, but I can dream
I like the monk's unarmed attacks, but I feel like there has to be a more elegant solution. Even if making gloves/boots more important than weapons isn't feasible, there's no reason not to simply add a command to sheath one's weapons until and unless they're needed for an animation.
Maybe a show/hide weapons interface option would be a good middle ground for both sides -- like WoW's show/hide helmet and cloak options.
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
Well, your first character also isn't going to have thousands of gold to blow for a while. By then you might have finally gotten a decent xbow drop anyway.
I don't know, I made plenty of gold to blow on stuff during the beta.
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
Well, your first character also isn't going to have thousands of gold to blow for a while. By then you might have finally gotten a decent xbow drop anyway.
I don't know, I made plenty of gold to blow on stuff during the beta.
recently? after they jacked the price up on everything, i never seemed to have enough.
I think I did prefer the tomes of training system for leveling my blacksmith. If only because it made Pages of Training some of the most exciting drops.
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
Well, your first character also isn't going to have thousands of gold to blow for a while. By then you might have finally gotten a decent xbow drop anyway.
I don't know, I made plenty of gold to blow on stuff during the beta.
recently? after they jacked the price up on everything, i never seemed to have enough.
Well, recently as in the weekend beta. I had no problems at all scrounging up a few thousand gold to buy stuff at the fence. Maybe they reduced prices dramatically for the weekend beta? I don't know.
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
Well, your first character also isn't going to have thousands of gold to blow for a while. By then you might have finally gotten a decent xbow drop anyway.
I don't know, I made plenty of gold to blow on stuff during the beta.
On your first character? On the first play through?
I think I did prefer the tomes of training system for leveling my blacksmith. If only because it made Pages of Training some of the most exciting drops.
Well they supposedly still exist in Nightmare+, so you can celebrate.
forty on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
The reason Blizzard can't just put in jar weapons that boost your corpse spider skill is because it would be completely insane of them to itemize 18 tiers of glass jars, plus legendaries, including different art for each one, that only a WD can use that only boosts a single skill, for the purpose of relieving some mild annoyance about if a Witch Doctor conceptually should be using an axe.
Weapons are less involved in some skill animations in exchange for more elaborate and varied animations. Would Blow Dart make any more sense if the WD stabbed his dagger at the air in front of him and three poison blowdarts inexplicably shot out of his face?
This is basically how I feel.
My head starts to hurt when people start talking about conceptual consistency in a game with wizards, demons and magic. Characters could bend over and shoot magic fire from their ass, and as far as I'm concerned, that's as internally consistent as anything else in a fantasy world.
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
Well, your first character also isn't going to have thousands of gold to blow for a while. By then you might have finally gotten a decent xbow drop anyway.
I don't know, I made plenty of gold to blow on stuff during the beta.
On your first character? On the first play through?
I think I did prefer the tomes of training system for leveling my blacksmith. If only because it made Pages of Training some of the most exciting drops.
Well they supposedly still exist in Nightmare+, so you can celebrate.
Doing it as monk and deliberately blowing through the last couple of cathedral levels without 100%ing, I believe I ended up with about 11-12K total gold (since I sank into four or five crafting upgrades for giggles.) I don't know whether you consider that 'a lot' or not, but it's certainly enough to buy a full set of (lousy) fence items if you thought it was necessary.
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
Well, your first character also isn't going to have thousands of gold to blow for a while. By then you might have finally gotten a decent xbow drop anyway.
I don't know, I made plenty of gold to blow on stuff during the beta.
On your first character? On the first play through?
Maybe I'm just used to saving and spending gold in diablo games, but I had enough gold on my first play through to buy more than 2 rings and a few other things, and I upgraded the crafter a few times as well. I mean, I definitely didn't have enough money to buy a weapon at level 2 or 3 or whatever.
Good luck to anyone playing demon hunter as their first, praying for that good xbow to drop while everyone else is crafting awesome new melee weapons every few levels.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
Right, which is just like in D2 where you can pick up a weapon from a vendor if nothing is dropping. Then by act4 if your luck doesn't improve things become very slow with vendor stuff and downright painful in act5. I played through D2 normal from scratch a few weeks ago with amazon and getting everything but that good weapon is a huge deal. Remains to be seen if D3 follows the same curve.
I'm struck by how different the classes felt to me. The Wizard consistently annoyed me up through level eleven despite my enjoyment of the concept, while the Demon Hunter's combination of traps, mobility and dakka had me grinning.
Maybe I'll like Wizzie more with electrocute. Perhaps it just isn't for me.
Posts
What bothers me is the disconnect between what's supposed to be happening conceptually, what we're seeing on screen, and what's happening mechanically.
I'm actually fine with, say, magic missile being based on weapon damage. The wizard swings the sword, a magic missile flies off the end. Obviously, magic like that has a physical component, and the weapon serves as a focus. That's great- conceptual, mechanical, and visual all line up nicely.
A skill like Impale is different. You're throwing a dagger, that's great. Why does having a better bow make you throw a dagger harder? The conceptual and the visual don't line up with the mechanical.
The monk and the witch doctor suffer the most from this, because most of their skills just make their weapons teleport out of their hands. Why can't we have punch and kick damage based off of boots and gloves, like the Assassin from D2?
This I probably all a result of how they were still making drastic changes to the mechanics years after they made the character concepts. And I don't really see a way around it now, since there's no time to go back and redo all the skill animations that don't match the new mechanics.
You never noticed before? Are you new to Diablo?
You don't even have to hover over a target, just hold shift and your attack button and your character will swing away regardless.
Weapons are less involved in some skill animations in exchange for more elaborate and varied animations. Would Blow Dart make any more sense if the WD stabbed his dagger at the air in front of him and three poison blowdarts inexplicably shot out of his face?
I haven't played a Diablo melee class in quite a while.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
They took that out the latest builds of D2 though.
Melee? Shift-Attacking was invaluable to ranged classes in D2.
With Shift-click: Whelp, that meteor is totally going to fall right into that pack of monsters.
Without Shift-click: OH GOD WHY ARE YOU RUNNING INTO THAT PACK OF MONSTER FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Alt is a close second though.
The fence reliably sells hand crossbows with 16dps that will turn you into a killing machine for a few thousand gold.
The monk was the only one where it felt really really out of place to me. The WD you're kind of doing other stuff and casting is kind of its own thing. But the monk, you are hitting them.. with the fists which were just holding powerful glowing axes.
Did it ruin my enjoyment of either class. Nope. Do I think it was odd and out of place? Yeah, a little.
Here's what I have:
Intel Core 2 Duo 1.86 Ghz
2 Gigs of RAM
Nvidia GeForce 7900 GS
Any hardware smart people on here that could suggest where my best bet would be in terms of performace:dollars? In the beta I could get decent performance out of running at the lowest 16:10 resolution with minimized graphics settings. With vsync on, I would be at 60fps while walking through empty hallways and 30fps during combat.
If I were to upgrade the video card, would it matter? Or do I have a processor and/or RAM bottleneck?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/progression/#level=2
20% xp, looks like a solid crafted xbow to me
edit: ranged definitely looks a little more sparse than your melee options as you continue to progress, but it's not absolutely ignored, I guess you just have to supplement with solid drops/vendor usage.
Required level : 14
But yeah you can buy an okay xbow from the merchant if one doesn't drop for ya. I got a bunch in my beta run after level 6-7, but before then kinda sucked.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Video card would help a bunch and another 2GB of RAM would be good too. Assuming you have PCIE (which I think you would on that rig but there are AGP 7900s) you can get a good GPU upgrade for under 100 I would think. Something along the lines of a 6670 to a 6770 in AMD or a 550ti in nVidia. RAM would run you another 40 for 2GB of DDR2. That said you would probably swing a refresh of CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU for under 400 that would blow it out of the water. Just depends on budget.
I don't recall it being strictly necessary to my necromancer or sorceress, but that was probably due to the trees I was using.
Different topic: Anyone aware of any $10-off promotions? I missed the Newegg preorder deal and am casting about for another.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
I think you're stuck in a D2 mentality. There are no skill/rune levels, so how would an item add to a skill? Binding a weapon to a skill or rune is a terrible idea, IMO. I'd much rather have stats beneficial to my class so that I'm free to choose whatever skill/rune combos I want.
And I'm talking datamined stuff here, as well as logical thinking when faced with runed skills that are only 1/5th as powerful as their old level 7 counterparts.
Skill affixes have been known/confirmed for a little while now.
The general understanding is that they act how the different ranks of runes used too. (when runes were still drops)
Relentless makes your skills cost no Fury while below 20% health, while Dread Bomb expends all remaining fury to deal 3% * (each point of remaining fury) damage to targets within 12 yards of the point of impact.
This probably won't work like I think it might, but I can dream
I don't know, I made plenty of gold to blow on stuff during the beta.
recently? after they jacked the price up on everything, i never seemed to have enough.
Well, recently as in the weekend beta. I had no problems at all scrounging up a few thousand gold to buy stuff at the fence. Maybe they reduced prices dramatically for the weekend beta? I don't know.
Well they supposedly still exist in Nightmare+, so you can celebrate.
This is basically how I feel.
My head starts to hurt when people start talking about conceptual consistency in a game with wizards, demons and magic. Characters could bend over and shoot magic fire from their ass, and as far as I'm concerned, that's as internally consistent as anything else in a fantasy world.
Doing it as monk and deliberately blowing through the last couple of cathedral levels without 100%ing, I believe I ended up with about 11-12K total gold (since I sank into four or five crafting upgrades for giggles.) I don't know whether you consider that 'a lot' or not, but it's certainly enough to buy a full set of (lousy) fence items if you thought it was necessary.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
I was a pretty casual D1/D2 player, but after eight hours of free play on Sunday, I'm primed for the release.
Right, which is just like in D2 where you can pick up a weapon from a vendor if nothing is dropping. Then by act4 if your luck doesn't improve things become very slow with vendor stuff and downright painful in act5. I played through D2 normal from scratch a few weeks ago with amazon and getting everything but that good weapon is a huge deal. Remains to be seen if D3 follows the same curve.
Maybe I'll like Wizzie more with electrocute. Perhaps it just isn't for me.
I feel so cold. it's going to be a rough couple of weeks.