This is my first time playing anything Little King Story so I'm digging it but I'm not far in. There is DEFINITELY slowdown already even with a small party in the city area. Just inconvenient so far, not enough to get me to stop playing. I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting into beforehand but at $9 I think it's a steal of a deal.
0
Options
MattitudePaste Pot PeteKicking The BucketRegistered Userregular
So, when Velocity 2X came on PS+, I remembered I had Velocity Ultra from back when I first got my Vita.
So I blew through Velocity Ultra and then I started Velocity 2X last night.
It's AWESOME. I felt a bit overwhelmed by the speed of it all at first, but I stuck with it and it just clicked. Such a fun pair of games. And awesome to play in short bursts on the tube.
I got this Tumblr and I don't know how to use it.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
I definitely like everything about Little King Story. It's a really fun game, but the lag just kills it for me. Can't even play the game properly, in my opinion, the further you progress. Haven't played it in a while... Might try it again though. I'll try to limit my party and see if I can tolerate the lag that way.
0
Options
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
So I just ended chapter 2 of Daganronpa and this game is shaping out to be pretty freaking fun. I'm usually not a huge fan of visual novels, but I guess there's an exception to everything.
spoilers for Ch. 2
Man, poor Chihiro. But, the weak dies and strong lives.
So I'm a bit...perplexed. My understanding was that the "mastermind" behind a murder was considered the blackened. So if Nagito masterminded his own murder, even without the knowledge or consent of the person who actually killed him, wouldn't he still be the "murderer" per Monokuma's rules?
That's all fine and good, but literally none of the characters brought that up as a possibility. It wouldn't bother me if it was dismissed for some explained reason. Or even handwaved because Monokuma is a dick. But...
(again HUGE spoilers)
Monokuma mentions the mastermind thing multiple times to the kids. It's discussed in previous trials. It was discussed in even more length, if I recall correctly, during Danganonpa 1, but it's reaffirmed here. In a way, it's even the deciding factor in the Mahiru trial. But here, that angle is totally ignored.
I dunno, that kind of bugs me. Feels like a miss to me.
Also...
(again again HUGE spoilers]
I guess I'm biased because I really liked Chiaki and didn't want her to die...
It is what it is. It's not a big deal I guess and I agree that it would have likely been dismissed. Just seemed out of character for the non-okumas to not even bring it up or entertain the thought. It would have made sense for it to be denied as a possibility by Monokuma.
That's all fine and good, but literally none of the characters brought that up as a possibility. It wouldn't bother me if it was dismissed for some explained reason. Or even handwaved because Monokuma is a dick. But...
(again HUGE spoilers)
Monokuma mentions the mastermind thing multiple times to the kids. It's discussed in previous trials. It was discussed in even more length, if I recall correctly, during Danganonpa 1, but it's reaffirmed here. In a way, it's even the deciding factor in the Mahiru trial. But here, that angle is totally ignored.
I dunno, that kind of bugs me. Feels like a miss to me.
Also...
(again again HUGE spoilers]
I guess I'm biased because I really liked Chiaki and didn't want her to die...
It is what it is. It's not a big deal I guess and I agree that it would have likely been dismissed. Just seemed out of character for the non-okumas to not even bring it up or entertain the thought. It would have made sense for it to be denied as a possibility by Monokuma.
Again, not a huge deal but whatevs.
I think the point is moot, really.
I'm not going to spoil the Chapter 6 stuff but it plays into what you're going through right now. Drez, you can safely read what's behind the tags.
If the cast hadn't decided to trust in Nagito's luck, they might've told Monokuma they had solved the mystery and maybe he would've been gracious, but my guess is probably not. The idea is to reinforce despair, and there's a very good reason for him to act this way, as you'll see in Chapter 6.
Thanks, I hear ya. I'm gonna power through and see if I can finish the story tonight. Of course that doesn't mean I'll be finished. I haven't even touched the other modes yet. Gonna 100% this mofo just like DNGNRNPA1.
So I'm a bit...perplexed. My understanding was that the "mastermind" behind a murder was considered the blackened. So if Nagito masterminded his own murder, even without the knowledge or consent of the person who actually killed him, wouldn't he still be the "murderer" per Monokuma's rules?
Oh well.
It sounds like the above has kind of wrapped this up already, but some thoughts:
Keep in mind that the students pretty much immediately latch on to it being a trap, due in no small part to the elaborate nature of the setup and how Nagito was acting the entire time. So it's not like they missed it out of omission, it's because, as joshofalltrades indicated, they already knew the "even more horrifying" truth --- they'd been set up by Nagito's luck and they had every reason to expect Monokuma would go along with it.
Shortly thereafter, Monokuma says two things that short circuit any chance of the group raising "hey, isn't Nagito still the killer?" because he certainly latches onto the plan:
"Nagito's killer is the one who made him breathe the poison!"
"However, he also prepared a mystery that couldn't be solved. As you solve mysteries and bolster your hope, a huge mystery comes along and slaps you in your faces... For those of you who believe there are no unsolvable mysteries, that is when you finally taste despair..."
Besides, if you start extrapolating out intent a bit, how Nagito dies is highly influenced by what the others chose to do. If no one throws the fire grenade, maybe Nagito dies from the fire, or self-inflicted blood loss, or doesn't die at all. He just staged an event that might have killed him, or would have certainly killed him if the group took one specific (even if it was orchestrated) action. So maybe Monokuma's right anyway. (Puhuhu!)
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
Well, I mean it is kind of clarified in the Chapter 2 trial.
Spoilers for Ch. 2 and 5:
In the whole Mastermind vs. Killer thing, the Killer always trumps. Fuyuhiko basically set every single thing in motion when it came to Mahiru's death except actually killing her. Peko was just along with him until it actually came time to kill and then she did it. Peko was punished, not Fuyuhiko. This is pretty much the exact same scenario, in that Nagito put everything into motion except his actual death, which was done by Chiaki. The only difference is that she didn't know it until it was too late.
I honestly forget the cases in DR1 and I'm going to have to play it over again, but it's at least consistent with itself in 2.
Well, I mean it is kind of clarified in the Chapter 2 trial.
Spoilers for Ch. 2 and 5:
In the whole Mastermind vs. Killer thing, the Killer always trumps. Fuyuhiko basically set every single thing in motion when it came to Mahiru's death except actually killing her. Peko was just along with him until it actually came time to kill and then she did it. Peko was punished, not Fuyuhiko. This is pretty much the exact same scenario, in that Nagito put everything into motion except his actual death, which was done by Chiaki. The only difference is that she didn't know it until it was too late.
I honestly forget the cases in DR1 and I'm going to have to play it over again, but it's at least consistent with itself in 2.
You're ultimately right, but it's a bit more complicated than that:
There's a lot of unreliable narrator (Peko herself) effect in Chapter 2. Fuyuhiko confronts Mahiru, he is conflicted about killing Mahiru but is set off by something she says and says "I got really pissed off and grabbed the metal bat that I hid under the bench..." and it is then that Peko intercedes (both in the murder and in the narrative) and says she killed Mahiru as ordered. But she, the unreliable narrator here, believes she was ordered implicitly because of her nature as a tool. When confronted about whether or not he considered Peko a tool, Fuyuhiko wavers and says that he can't accept Peko's alibi, because that'd mean she actually was a tool to him, and he confides he never felt that way and never gave that order (and in fact, tried to essentially dismiss Peko as a tool when they got on the island).
It's interesting to note that you get two images of the same scene in this narrative: the first, from Peko's narrative, is her holding the bloodied bat and Fuyuhiko grinning sinisterly; the second is during Fuyuhiko's narrative, and the scene is the same except his face is more panicked and shocked. This is an important distinction from Chapter 5 as Peko was never a tool and by all accounts was never intended to be part of the murder. Fuyuhiko's Mastermind role ended before the murder, ending when Peko intercedes on her own volition (as delusional or assumptive as it was). To this end, after all the cards are on the table, Peko admits that she herself chose to try to be the patsy for Fuyuhiko.
So yes, indeed, Killer trumps Mastermind in the end, but this situation is somewhat different as the crux of the discovery is that Peko acts of her own free will. Monokuma twists the knife a bit throughout the wrap up, eventually concluding there's no way "a human that meddlesome could ever be considered a tool" and calls Peko "the tool with a heart". However, it kind of seems like he could see either interpretation; he calls some facets of the argument "surprisingly interesting", but naturally he chose whatever interpretation maximized despair, which in this situation is most definitely executing Peko rather than everyone except Fuyuhiko. There is definitely an air to post-trial that Monokuma could have accepted Fuyuhiko was the actual killer.
God I'm glad I took screenshots of like half of this game.
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
This time last week I was just finishing chapter 2 of Danganronpa 2 and now I've finished (plus read the novel), so I've played a ton of it over the last week.
Great game but I enjoyed the first one more. I was loving the game for the first five chapters but once it hit six, it all felt a bit messy, even though quite a bit of it was foreshadowed beforehand. And then once Junko, Makoto, Kyoko and Byakuya appeared, it seemed like the first game's cast overshadowed the second's.
Also, the novel is pretty great. I didn't know what to expect going in but I figured it might just be a summary of the first game. Nope, instead it's a pretty great alternate reality take on the first game and developed a character that got absolutely nothing in that game really well, which just makes it suck that she's dead in canon.
Now I'm off to do Island Mode, which'll probably take me another freaking week.
Well, I mean it is kind of clarified in the Chapter 2 trial.
Spoilers for Ch. 2 and 5:
In the whole Mastermind vs. Killer thing, the Killer always trumps. Fuyuhiko basically set every single thing in motion when it came to Mahiru's death except actually killing her. Peko was just along with him until it actually came time to kill and then she did it. Peko was punished, not Fuyuhiko. This is pretty much the exact same scenario, in that Nagito put everything into motion except his actual death, which was done by Chiaki. The only difference is that she didn't know it until it was too late.
I honestly forget the cases in DR1 and I'm going to have to play it over again, but it's at least consistent with itself in 2.
It's actually the exact opposite. (Major Chapter 2 spoilers.)
Peko took it upon herself to kill Mahiru. She did NOT do so at Fuyuhiko's explicit or even implicit orders. This was what the climax and conclusion of Chapter 2 clarified. In fact, the other classmates were asking Fuyuhiko to make a choice about his involvement. Peko wished for Fuyuhiko to confirm he was the mastermind. This would have made HIM the blackened and made everyone else's vote wrong. Everyone else obviously wished for Fuyuhiko to confirm he was NOT the mastermind and that Peko acted of her own accord, which she did.
In the end, it didn't matter. Monokuma knew that Fuyuhiko was not the mastermind and that Peko ultimately acted on her own. Nothing Fuyuhiko said would have changed Monokuma's interpretation of events.
As such, Chapter 2 explicitly confirms that the mastermind IS the blackened, but only if there is a true mastermind.
Well, I mean it is kind of clarified in the Chapter 2 trial.
Spoilers for Ch. 2 and 5:
In the whole Mastermind vs. Killer thing, the Killer always trumps. Fuyuhiko basically set every single thing in motion when it came to Mahiru's death except actually killing her. Peko was just along with him until it actually came time to kill and then she did it. Peko was punished, not Fuyuhiko. This is pretty much the exact same scenario, in that Nagito put everything into motion except his actual death, which was done by Chiaki. The only difference is that she didn't know it until it was too late.
I honestly forget the cases in DR1 and I'm going to have to play it over again, but it's at least consistent with itself in 2.
You're ultimately right, but it's a bit more complicated than that:
There's a lot of unreliable narrator (Peko herself) effect in Chapter 2. Fuyuhiko confronts Mahiru, he is conflicted about killing Mahiru but is set off by something she says and says "I got really pissed off and grabbed the metal bat that I hid under the bench..." and it is then that Peko intercedes (both in the murder and in the narrative) and says she killed Mahiru as ordered. But she, the unreliable narrator here, believes she was ordered implicitly because of her nature as a tool. When confronted about whether or not he considered Peko a tool, Fuyuhiko wavers and says that he can't accept Peko's alibi, because that'd mean she actually was a tool to him, and he confides he never felt that way and never gave that order (and in fact, tried to essentially dismiss Peko as a tool when they got on the island).
It's interesting to note that you get two images of the same scene in this narrative: the first, from Peko's narrative, is her holding the bloodied bat and Fuyuhiko grinning sinisterly; the second is during Fuyuhiko's narrative, and the scene is the same except his face is more panicked and shocked. This is an important distinction from Chapter 5 as Peko was never a tool and by all accounts was never intended to be part of the murder. Fuyuhiko's Mastermind role ended before the murder, ending when Peko intercedes on her own volition (as delusional or assumptive as it was). To this end, after all the cards are on the table, Peko admits that she herself chose to try to be the patsy for Fuyuhiko.
So yes, indeed, Killer trumps Mastermind in the end, but this situation is somewhat different as the crux of the discovery is that Peko acts of her own free will. Monokuma twists the knife a bit throughout the wrap up, eventually concluding there's no way "a human that meddlesome could ever be considered a tool" and calls Peko "the tool with a heart". However, it kind of seems like he could see either interpretation; he calls some facets of the argument "surprisingly interesting", but naturally he chose whatever interpretation maximized despair, which in this situation is most definitely executing Peko rather than everyone except Fuyuhiko. There is definitely an air to post-trial that Monokuma could have accepted Fuyuhiko was the actual killer.
God I'm glad I took screenshots of like half of this game.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who took screenshots of things. I have tons.
But, I don't agree with your interpretation of Chapter 2 at all... Keep in mind I am close to finishing Chapter 6, but I am not 100% done yet.
Huge Chapter 2 and Chapter 5 spoilers and some Chapter 6 spoilers:
First, Monokuma has no choice in how to interpret events. In fact, Monokuma is a wholly objective observer of events and his judgments are based on those objective observations. And since he is more or less omnipresent and omniscient on the island, you can be sure that his observations are always 100% accurate.
He is constrained by rules. This is reinforced in Danganronpa 1 and 2, and is even more plausible in DR2 considering what Monokuma represents in this game. Thus, he has no freedom to choose the "interpretation that maximizes despair." All he is able to do is guide the kids toward a path that maximizes despair, which is different. He omits facts, but he doesn't lie or distort them. He tries to get the group to misinterpret things, but his interpretation is always spot on because he is omniscient within the scope of the game.
Second, I think it was made pretty clear after the second trial that there was no other acceptable interpretation. Nagito (I believe) even asks Monokuma if he knew this outcome all along. To me, that's just exposition parrotry. In fact, throughout the climax all I could think was "this is all irrelevant. They already voted and it doesn't matter what Fuyuhiko says - his decision has no impact on the outcome here" and I believe that to be totally true. I don't think Monokuma had any freedom to reinterpret events because the events had already been determined and as we know, Monokuma simply observes events to complete accuracy and deals out punishment based on the trial group's correct or incorrect interpretation of those events. Monokuma doesn't actually have to interpret anything, and doesn't have the freedom to.
Third, I don't agree that killer trumps mastermind - it seems like it's explicitly reinforced multiple times throughout both games that the opposite is true - I'll have to dig through my screenshots but I'm pretty sure Monokuma explicitly says this at least once in DR2. The only situation in both games where it does NOT seem to be true is Chapter 5 of DR2. Which is why I'm a bit perplexed.
Anyway, I enjoy this debate. I know you thoroughly devoured DR1 too so I'm interested in your thoughts. And everyone else's of course.
Oh, let me go one step further about the conclusion of Chapter 2 (full game spoilers though):
Above I wrote "this is irrelevant as it won't change anything" regarding Fuyuhiko's choice, but of course that's not true.
In fact, it's very important because it defines and redeems Fuyuhiko's character.
I have to admit here that Fuyuhiko was one of my favorite characters and I had a sneaking suspicion that the writers were setting him up to be one of the main cast throughout the game. I was happy that he made the more altruistic choice. That's ALL that was about, though - showing the characters (and us, the audience) what choice Fuyuhiko would make. Putting Fuyuhiko on the spot had nothing to do with the outcome of the trial - it was a character building moment, Fuyuhiko's redemption.
I think that is even more powerful when you realize his "choice" actually had no impact on the conclusion as the events had already been determined and observed by Monokuma, the arbiter. Which I personally believe is confirmed in dialogue after Fuyuhiko makes his choice.
Drez on
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
0
Options
MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
Well, I mean it is kind of clarified in the Chapter 2 trial.
Spoilers for Ch. 2 and 5:
In the whole Mastermind vs. Killer thing, the Killer always trumps. Fuyuhiko basically set every single thing in motion when it came to Mahiru's death except actually killing her. Peko was just along with him until it actually came time to kill and then she did it. Peko was punished, not Fuyuhiko. This is pretty much the exact same scenario, in that Nagito put everything into motion except his actual death, which was done by Chiaki. The only difference is that she didn't know it until it was too late.
I honestly forget the cases in DR1 and I'm going to have to play it over again, but it's at least consistent with itself in 2.
You're ultimately right, but it's a bit more complicated than that:
There's a lot of unreliable narrator (Peko herself) effect in Chapter 2. Fuyuhiko confronts Mahiru, he is conflicted about killing Mahiru but is set off by something she says and says "I got really pissed off and grabbed the metal bat that I hid under the bench..." and it is then that Peko intercedes (both in the murder and in the narrative) and says she killed Mahiru as ordered. But she, the unreliable narrator here, believes she was ordered implicitly because of her nature as a tool. When confronted about whether or not he considered Peko a tool, Fuyuhiko wavers and says that he can't accept Peko's alibi, because that'd mean she actually was a tool to him, and he confides he never felt that way and never gave that order (and in fact, tried to essentially dismiss Peko as a tool when they got on the island).
It's interesting to note that you get two images of the same scene in this narrative: the first, from Peko's narrative, is her holding the bloodied bat and Fuyuhiko grinning sinisterly; the second is during Fuyuhiko's narrative, and the scene is the same except his face is more panicked and shocked. This is an important distinction from Chapter 5 as Peko was never a tool and by all accounts was never intended to be part of the murder. Fuyuhiko's Mastermind role ended before the murder, ending when Peko intercedes on her own volition (as delusional or assumptive as it was). To this end, after all the cards are on the table, Peko admits that she herself chose to try to be the patsy for Fuyuhiko.
So yes, indeed, Killer trumps Mastermind in the end, but this situation is somewhat different as the crux of the discovery is that Peko acts of her own free will. Monokuma twists the knife a bit throughout the wrap up, eventually concluding there's no way "a human that meddlesome could ever be considered a tool" and calls Peko "the tool with a heart". However, it kind of seems like he could see either interpretation; he calls some facets of the argument "surprisingly interesting", but naturally he chose whatever interpretation maximized despair, which in this situation is most definitely executing Peko rather than everyone except Fuyuhiko. There is definitely an air to post-trial that Monokuma could have accepted Fuyuhiko was the actual killer.
God I'm glad I took screenshots of like half of this game.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who took screenshots of things. I have tons.
But, I don't agree with your interpretation of Chapter 2 at all... Keep in mind I am close to finishing Chapter 6, but I am not 100% done yet.
Huge Chapter 2 and Chapter 5 spoilers and some Chapter 6 spoilers:
First, Monokuma has no choice in how to interpret events. In fact, Monokuma is a wholly objective observer of events and his judgments are based on those objective observations. And since he is more or less omnipresent and omniscient on the island, you can be sure that his observations are always 100% accurate.
He is constrained by rules. This is reinforced in Danganronpa 1 and 2, and is even more plausible in DR2 considering what Monokuma represents in this game. Thus, he has no freedom to choose the "interpretation that maximizes despair." All he is able to do is guide the kids toward a path that maximizes despair, which is different. He omits facts, but he doesn't lie or distort them. He tries to get the group to misinterpret things, but his interpretation is always spot on because he is omniscient within the scope of the game.
Second, I think it was made pretty clear after the second trial that there was no other acceptable interpretation. Nagito (I believe) even asks Monokuma if he knew this outcome all along. To me, that's just exposition parrotry. In fact, throughout the climax all I could think was "this is all irrelevant. They already voted and it doesn't matter what Fuyuhiko says - his decision has no impact on the outcome here" and I believe that to be totally true. I don't think Monokuma had any freedom to reinterpret events because the events had already been determined and as we know, Monokuma simply observes events to complete accuracy and deals out punishment based on the trial group's correct or incorrect interpretation of those events. Monokuma doesn't actually have to interpret anything, and doesn't have the freedom to.
Third, I don't agree that killer trumps mastermind - it seems like it's explicitly reinforced multiple times throughout both games that the opposite is true - I'll have to dig through my screenshots but I'm pretty sure Monokuma explicitly says this at least once in DR2. The only situation in both games where it does NOT seem to be true is Chapter 5 of DR2. Which is why I'm a bit perplexed.
Anyway, I enjoy this debate. I know you thoroughly devoured DR1 too so I'm interested in your thoughts. And everyone else's of course.
DR1 all chapters + DR2 Ch. 1-5 spoilers, hoy! I don't think I spoiled any DR2 Ch. 6 but be careful.
I totally disagree with the base premise that Monokuma is objective, or at least an impartial arbiter. There's really no reason to assume he acts with good faith in these games he (at least partially) orchestrates on his own. You are coming to some illuminating stuff in Ch. 6 if you still have yet to start (and finish) the trial, but there are other things to suggest his biases anyway. In many of the DR1 and DR2 Monokuma Files, he omits key evidence --- the nature of Nagito's death, Chihiro's identity, the entire nature of Mukuro's identity and death as well as the identity of Junko as examples --- only for the purposes of making the trials harder and twisting the knife just a little bit more. Like you said, yes, these omissions are not lies, but he doesn't need to lie to steer towards the ending he chooses.
The perhaps most concrete example of this conclusion that Monokuma's word trumps objective reality is the two ending nature of DR1 Ch. 5. Either choice in the Ch. 5 trial proceeds as if it is correct, because the entire trial is a farce. Outside of the general problem that no really, the entire trial is a farce, Monokuma gladly allows either student to be "correctly" identified as the blackened in order to keep the game going, as is stated in the events of Ch. 6 or suggested by the alternate ending.
So I just can't agree with an assumption that Monokuma represents only objective reality --- his actions throughout the series amount to an antagonist operating within some rules, but there's plenty of wiggle room there for him to supersede or ignore the rules as it suits him.
Interestingly many of the Monokuma Theaters play with this "alternative interpretation of reality" nature. Many of the monologues are little jabs at commonly accepted "right" truths, twisting interpretations of everyday thoughts and events into a more despair-y nature. Monokuma is the ultimate Devil's Advocate, really --- and he's in charge of the trials.
Your second point is I feel a consequence of the first so it's hard to directly address. :) I believe Monokuma had no reason to side with Peko, but for reasons of it not maximizing his own stake in the game, not by any constraint to objective reality. As far as I'm aware, the constraints on Monokuma's freedoms are very explicit and limited in scope, and basically limited to only the ones in the handbook. The entire killing game exists despite the school trip's rules, there's no real reason to assume any limitation outside of the ones explicitly mentioned as limitations on Monokuma himself, or those set up as killing game rules.
Your third point was something I wasn't going to mention but you opened it up so here goes. I chalked this all up to my poor memory, but I couldn't recall an explicit case where the Mastermind was the blackened when there was a different freely-willed Killer as the student. A Mastermind defense is somewhat rejected in Leon's trial, but the case determines that he went beyond the act of self-defense so it's a moot point anyway. That's the closest I can recall to a statement more explicit than Nagito's case on the subject of Mastermind vs. Killer.
An interesting exception is Celestia's case, since she manipulates Hifumi into killing Taka and then kills Hifumi to complete her set-up, but to be honest I don't recall some of the arguments in her case and can't quite recall where that line of reasoning goes. This case I feel might be the most useful Mastermind vs. Killer example, but it too is sullied because Taka's killer is also himself a victim, so it's not a pure example either and the entire case might be thrown out the window for purposes of solving Mastermind vs. Killer.
Anyway, I'd be interested to see if you find any screenshots that explicitly set up a "Mastermind trumps" interpretation, because I couldn't find anything on my cursory sifting through DR2 screens.
Edit: fixing a couple typos and clarifying one reply.
bss on
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
Sword Art Online: Lost Song, for Vita and PS3. Curious to see if they bring this one over.
Oooooh, an ALfheim Online game. I'm patiently somewhat interested.
I wonder if Project Alicization will get any adaptions or if those books will stay LN-only. It's a rather interesting direction the story moves in, but it also goes with a mostly new cast and male bff, and thus they lose much of their waifu-merchandising should the books receive anime or game adaptions.
This time last week I was just finishing chapter 2 of Danganronpa 2 and now I've finished (plus read the novel), so I've played a ton of it over the last week.
Great game but I enjoyed the first one more. I was loving the game for the first five chapters but once it hit six, it all felt a bit messy, even though quite a bit of it was foreshadowed beforehand. And then once Junko, Makoto, Kyoko and Byakuya appeared, it seemed like the first game's cast overshadowed the second's.
Also, the novel is pretty great. I didn't know what to expect going in but I figured it might just be a summary of the first game. Nope, instead it's a pretty great alternate reality take on the first game and developed a character that got absolutely nothing in that game really well, which just makes it suck that she's dead in canon.
Now I'm off to do Island Mode, which'll probably take me another freaking week.
General DR2 impression-spoilers:
I think I enjoyed DR2 more (both were really great) but yeah, I can definitely see where one would feel that the end overshadowed the cast of DR2. Even despite me liking the DR1 cast more, I feel somewhat the same way.
Oh, let me go one step further about the conclusion of Chapter 2 (full game spoilers though):
Above I wrote "this is irrelevant as it won't change anything" regarding Fuyuhiko's choice, but of course that's not true.
In fact, it's very important because it defines and redeems Fuyuhiko's character.
I have to admit here that Fuyuhiko was one of my favorite characters and I had a sneaking suspicion that the writers were setting him up to be one of the main cast throughout the game. I was happy that he made the more altruistic choice. That's ALL that was about, though - showing the characters (and us, the audience) what choice Fuyuhiko would make. Putting Fuyuhiko on the spot had nothing to do with the outcome of the trial - it was a character building moment, Fuyuhiko's redemption.
I think that is even more powerful when you realize his "choice" actually had no impact on the conclusion as the events had already been determined and observed by Monokuma, the arbiter. Which I personally believe is confirmed in dialogue after Fuyuhiko makes his choice.
Despite the stuff we're debating, I agree with the end result --- Fuyuhiko was a great character. I just disagree with how he got there. Fuyuhiko made the right choice but I do feel it may have had an impact on the trial because Monokuma gonna Monokuma. What would have happened has no impact on Fuyuhiko making the right choice --- the important part about his character is that he made it.
bss on
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
Sword Art Online: Lost Song, for Vita and PS3. Curious to see if they bring this one over.
Oooooh, an ALfheim Online game. I'm patiently somewhat interested.
I wonder if Project Alicization will get any adaptions or if those books will stay LN-only. It's a rather interesting direction the story moves in, but it also goes with a mostly new cast and male bff, and thus they lose much of their waifu-merchandising should the books receive anime or game adaptions.
I like the Project Alicization arc because it had effectively a complete cast reset. I could see an anime based on that arc, but a game might be a bit more difficult.
Okay so I finished Danganronpa 2 story mode. I enjoyed it thoroughly. It makes me pretty pissed off that Zero Escape 3 may actually never happen because these crazy stories are some of my favorite games.
I am only on Chapter 2 of Danganronpa 2 (Destiny has been taking up a majority of my time) but I have some theories about what's really going on. I may be wrong but I'm putting this down in case I'm right. Don't tell me if I'm right or wrong.
Major Danganronpa 1 and 2 spoilers:
I bet Hajime is one of the despair people. Some of the survivors of Danganronpa 1 are trying to study if removing the memories of someone committed to despair can reject despair and achieve hope.
Maybe.
Which would make both Nagito and Hajime this "traitor" (but only if Nagito is Nagito - otherwise Hajime is the sole traitor, at least from Monokuma's perspective).
Probably wrong. But whatevs.
*ahem*
*bow*
OK, I wasn't totally 100% right here and I was wrong about the traitor aspect I guess (depending on your definition of "traitor") but I was pretty close to at least a big part of it...back in Chapter 2.
Chiaki said something like, "If you think about it, the truth is actually much more horrifying". I hesitated, cocked an eyebrow and it clicked. I went, "Oh, shit." and proceeded to bemoan why cool characters had to keep dying and leave me stuck with Kazuichi.
Heh,
Yeah, I'd figured it out by then, but yeah, that was a cool moment. Those are the kinds of moments I love Danganronpa for.
Also yeah Kazuichi was kind of a bummer of a character aside from jokes when talking to Sonia.
From a few pages ago (huge chapter 5 spoilers).
I suspected it as soon as they started focusing on the fire grenades and brought up the poison.
Some loose ends (full/huge Danganronpa 2 spoilers). Thoughts on these?
1. Who was Mikan referring to by "him" when she claimed she killed Ibuki and Hiyoki as retribution or whatever as a result of the Remembering Disease? Was it Izuru? But even if it was, why would he give a shit? I also find it interesting that she ended up killing the other two girls in her little 5-girl group.
2. Did Fuyuhiko kill Girl E? If so, was it before or after he became a part of Ultimate Despair?
3. If you think about it, that's seriously fucked up because ALL the girls PLUS Fuyuhiko were Ultimate Despair. So either Fuyuhiko's sister was killed and covered up by members of Ultimate Despair and he killed Girl E while a part of Ultimate Despair and they just decided to let it go, or his sister was killed and he killed Girl E before they all became Ultimate Despair and decided to let it go. Or the whole thing was bullshit, but I doubt that.
4. Who was Nagito? Just some asshole? How could both he and Naegi be the Ultimate Lucky Student? I still think he has something to do with Naegi. Naegi/Nagito sounds similar. And Nagito sounds like "negation." Plus he basically acts like a nega-Naegi. Like he applied the concepts of Ultimate Luck and Ultimate Hope in the exact opposite way Naegi would have.
5. Who was Nagito referring to when he said he "hated" someone ("her") while on the boat with Izuru? I thought Enoshima but I'm not sure how that makes sense.
6. Not a loose end, but I loved when Nagito says something about "time to pass the torch" in Chapter 1 (or 2, can't recall clearly).
Some loose ends (full/huge Danganronpa 2 spoilers). Thoughts on these?
1. Who was Mikan referring to by "him" when she claimed she killed Ibuki and Hiyoki as retribution or whatever as a result of the Remembering Disease? Was it Izuru? But even if it was, why would he give a shit? I also find it interesting that she ended up killing the other two girls in her little 5-girl group.
2. Did Fuyuhiko kill Girl E? If so, was it before or after he became a part of Ultimate Despair?
3. If you think about it, that's seriously fucked up because ALL the girls PLUS Fuyuhiko were Ultimate Despair. So either Fuyuhiko's sister was killed and covered up by members of Ultimate Despair and he killed Girl E while a part of Ultimate Despair and they just decided to let it go, or his sister was killed and he killed Girl E before they all became Ultimate Despair and decided to let it go. Or the whole thing was bullshit, but I doubt that.
4. Who was Nagito? Just some asshole? How could both he and Naegi be the Ultimate Lucky Student? I still think he has something to do with Naegi. Naegi/Nagito sounds similar. And Nagito sounds like "negation." Plus he basically acts like a nega-Naegi. Like he applied the concepts of Ultimate Luck and Ultimate Hope in the exact opposite way Naegi would have.
5. Who was Nagito referring to when he said he "hated" someone ("her") while on the boat with Izuru? I thought Enoshima but I'm not sure how that makes sense.
6. Not a loose end, but I loved when Nagito says something about "time to pass the torch" in Chapter 1 (or 2, can't recall clearly).
2. The game never says if Fuyuhiko was actually the killer or not. However, both he and his sis are the next-in-line from a Yakuza group, ANYONE in the "family/group" could of done the murder as revenge really. Murdering someone from an organized crime group is a preeeeety dumb thing to do.
Well, that's just my own take on the situation. That said, I think this murder incident in general is probably what lead those particular kids to becoming members of Ultimate Despair. So nah, I don't think they were despairs yet.
Again, this is just my thoughts on the matter, could be wrong!
Also, I get the impression that the despairs aren't really friends with each other for the most part.
4: The school chooses a lucky student every year. Nagito and Makoto are in different grades.
Nagito's name is an anagram of Makoto's name by the way "Nagito Komaeda" - "Naegi Makoto da" "I am Makoto Naegi" .
Obviously, He's not ACTUALLY Makoto, but his character is supposed to represent a person with the "lucky talent" who goes on a darker path. (Nagito partially ends up crazy because his "luck" really goes on the extreme end of things. In Island mode, for example, he's kinda terrified to do anything even REMOTELY dangerous.)
5- He was talking about Enoshima. Nagito is a lover of hope and Enoshima represents (and put into practice) the exact opposite of that on the world.
Sword Art Online: Lost Song, for Vita and PS3. Curious to see if they bring this one over.
Oooooh, an ALfheim Online game. I'm patiently somewhat interested.
I wonder if Project Alicization will get any adaptions or if those books will stay LN-only. It's a rather interesting direction the story moves in, but it also goes with a mostly new cast and male bff, and thus they lose much of their waifu-merchandising should the books receive anime or game adaptions.
I just think it'd be too boring for a game. I mean the first three volumes aren't exactly game worthy and even the later parts are... Eh, alright? Frankly it feels a bit too generic as a setting. The story I really like but I just don't see it being something I'd want to play.
Unless I get to be a dragon knight and go around murdering innocents.
Some loose ends (full/huge Danganronpa 2 spoilers). Thoughts on these?
1. Who was Mikan referring to by "him" when she claimed she killed Ibuki and Hiyoki as retribution or whatever as a result of the Remembering Disease? Was it Izuru? But even if it was, why would he give a shit? I also find it interesting that she ended up killing the other two girls in her little 5-girl group.
My impression was that she was referring to Junko. The only problem is the 'him' part, but that may be a translation issue. Japan doesn't really do gender pronouns.
Well, I mean it is kind of clarified in the Chapter 2 trial.
Spoilers for Ch. 2 and 5:
In the whole Mastermind vs. Killer thing, the Killer always trumps. Fuyuhiko basically set every single thing in motion when it came to Mahiru's death except actually killing her. Peko was just along with him until it actually came time to kill and then she did it. Peko was punished, not Fuyuhiko. This is pretty much the exact same scenario, in that Nagito put everything into motion except his actual death, which was done by Chiaki. The only difference is that she didn't know it until it was too late.
I honestly forget the cases in DR1 and I'm going to have to play it over again, but it's at least consistent with itself in 2.
It's actually the exact opposite. (Major Chapter 2 spoilers.)
Peko took it upon herself to kill Mahiru. She did NOT do so at Fuyuhiko's explicit or even implicit orders. This was what the climax and conclusion of Chapter 2 clarified. In fact, the other classmates were asking Fuyuhiko to make a choice about his involvement. Peko wished for Fuyuhiko to confirm he was the mastermind. This would have made HIM the blackened and made everyone else's vote wrong. Everyone else obviously wished for Fuyuhiko to confirm he was NOT the mastermind and that Peko acted of her own accord, which she did.
In the end, it didn't matter. Monokuma knew that Fuyuhiko was not the mastermind and that Peko ultimately acted on her own. Nothing Fuyuhiko said would have changed Monokuma's interpretation of events.
As such, Chapter 2 explicitly confirms that the mastermind IS the blackened, but only if there is a true mastermind.
Ah, I don't think I explained myself well enough.
Basically what I was getting at is that there would have been no murder had Fuyuhiko set everything in motion. If he hadn't called Mahiru to the beach house, if he hadn't confronted her and got all upset and put the three of them in the tense situation, Peko wouldn't have killed Mahiru. We're not opposed on that point - she did it of her own volition, no matter the unreliable narrator moment of "He ordered it" versus "She wanted to do it".
But! The whole point of the case was that there was a heavy swing about whether or not someone who -caused- a murder superseded someone who -actually performed- a murder. Peko killed Mahiru because of the situation Fuyuhiko created. In the end, though, Peko killed Mahiru and that's what mattered. Killer trumped.
Same situation with Nagito and Chiaki. Nagito put everything into motion, literally everything, but Chiaki was the one that dealt the killing blow. She didn't know it, but she killed him. Thus, in the same ruling as the Mahiru thing, the blackened was the person who actually did the killing, and not the one who made the killing happen.
Well, I mean it is kind of clarified in the Chapter 2 trial.
Spoilers for Ch. 2 and 5:
In the whole Mastermind vs. Killer thing, the Killer always trumps. Fuyuhiko basically set every single thing in motion when it came to Mahiru's death except actually killing her. Peko was just along with him until it actually came time to kill and then she did it. Peko was punished, not Fuyuhiko. This is pretty much the exact same scenario, in that Nagito put everything into motion except his actual death, which was done by Chiaki. The only difference is that she didn't know it until it was too late.
I honestly forget the cases in DR1 and I'm going to have to play it over again, but it's at least consistent with itself in 2.
It's actually the exact opposite. (Major Chapter 2 spoilers.)
Peko took it upon herself to kill Mahiru. She did NOT do so at Fuyuhiko's explicit or even implicit orders. This was what the climax and conclusion of Chapter 2 clarified. In fact, the other classmates were asking Fuyuhiko to make a choice about his involvement. Peko wished for Fuyuhiko to confirm he was the mastermind. This would have made HIM the blackened and made everyone else's vote wrong. Everyone else obviously wished for Fuyuhiko to confirm he was NOT the mastermind and that Peko acted of her own accord, which she did.
In the end, it didn't matter. Monokuma knew that Fuyuhiko was not the mastermind and that Peko ultimately acted on her own. Nothing Fuyuhiko said would have changed Monokuma's interpretation of events.
As such, Chapter 2 explicitly confirms that the mastermind IS the blackened, but only if there is a true mastermind.
Ah, I don't think I explained myself well enough.
Basically what I was getting at is that there would have been no murder had Fuyuhiko set everything in motion. If he hadn't called Mahiru to the beach house, if he hadn't confronted her and got all upset and put the three of them in the tense situation, Peko wouldn't have killed Mahiru. We're not opposed on that point - she did it of her own volition, no matter the unreliable narrator moment of "He ordered it" versus "She wanted to do it".
But! The whole point of the case was that there was a heavy swing about whether or not someone who -caused- a murder superseded someone who -actually performed- a murder. Peko killed Mahiru because of the situation Fuyuhiko created. In the end, though, Peko killed Mahiru and that's what mattered. Killer trumped.
Same situation with Nagito and Chiaki. Nagito put everything into motion, literally everything, but Chiaki was the one that dealt the killing blow. She didn't know it, but she killed him. Thus, in the same ruling as the Mahiru thing, the blackened was the person who actually did the killing, and not the one who made the killing happen.
At least, that's my take on it.
Ch 4 spoilers
Nekomaru's death might be a counter example though. Gundam set everything up, but in the end it was Nekomaru's own struggling that caused him to fall and die. Yet it was a murder and not a suicide. I feel that once Monokuma decides the killer it's final, but how he decides the killer in ambiguous cases may be arbitrary.
Every time I listed to the P4G soundtrack I want to play P4G again. I still haven't finished Disgaea 4 or Hyperdimension Neptunia yet though. And Freedom Wars is out soon? The only thing my Vita has been playing recently is Destiny. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Switch SW-5832-5050-0149
PSN Hypacia
Xbox HypaciaMinnow
Discord Hypacia#0391
Some loose ends (full/huge Danganronpa 2 spoilers). Thoughts on these?
1. Who was Mikan referring to by "him" when she claimed she killed Ibuki and Hiyoki as retribution or whatever as a result of the Remembering Disease? Was it Izuru? But even if it was, why would he give a shit? I also find it interesting that she ended up killing the other two girls in her little 5-girl group.
2. Did Fuyuhiko kill Girl E? If so, was it before or after he became a part of Ultimate Despair?
3. If you think about it, that's seriously fucked up because ALL the girls PLUS Fuyuhiko were Ultimate Despair. So either Fuyuhiko's sister was killed and covered up by members of Ultimate Despair and he killed Girl E while a part of Ultimate Despair and they just decided to let it go, or his sister was killed and he killed Girl E before they all became Ultimate Despair and decided to let it go. Or the whole thing was bullshit, but I doubt that.
4. Who was Nagito? Just some asshole? How could both he and Naegi be the Ultimate Lucky Student? I still think he has something to do with Naegi. Naegi/Nagito sounds similar. And Nagito sounds like "negation." Plus he basically acts like a nega-Naegi. Like he applied the concepts of Ultimate Luck and Ultimate Hope in the exact opposite way Naegi would have.
5. Who was Nagito referring to when he said he "hated" someone ("her") while on the boat with Izuru? I thought Enoshima but I'm not sure how that makes sense.
6. Not a loose end, but I loved when Nagito says something about "time to pass the torch" in Chapter 1 (or 2, can't recall clearly).
Can I just say that I fucking love how much Danganronpa 1 and 2 cover?
1. It was my understanding that (and I could be massively misremembering this part) Mikan was referring to "Her Beloved", someone she was in love with in school, perhaps after, who accepted her and loved her, but then he died. Since their memories were wiped from the point that they entered school, she only remembered him once she caught the Despair Disease and her side-effect was Remembering. I'm guessing he was killed as part of the riots and such when the school went into an uproar. It was probably what pushed her into being Ultimate Despair but I don't know because I am really iffy as to the timeline between DR1, the Tragedy and DR2.
4. Basically. As someone else said, he's just a different year's Ultimate Lucky Student. Which I guess is just a step up from a Reserve Course student, since they're hand-picked? Anyway, I had a pet theory that Nagito knew about Naegi and emulated some twisted version of him, but the timeline just doesn't support it, because anything he would've known about Naegi would have been after school started, which he doesn't have access to in his memories unless he's special.
In the end, it's probably most likely that he was designed like that to fuck with the audience.
5. Yeah, that was Junko. I didn't really get to understand why because I kind of focused on the part where he cut her hand off her dead body and grafted it to his own arm in horror and nothing else about that scene really stuck.
I'm really -really- hoping that this next game clears up the confusion about the timeline of events.
Posts
So I blew through Velocity Ultra and then I started Velocity 2X last night.
It's AWESOME. I felt a bit overwhelmed by the speed of it all at first, but I stuck with it and it just clicked. Such a fun pair of games. And awesome to play in short bursts on the tube.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
I made a thread once. It didn't end well for me.
spoilers for Ch. 2
Also, Genocide Jill?
Sword Art Online: Lost Song, for Vita and PS3. Curious to see if they bring this one over.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
Huge spoilers.
Oh well.
Yeah but it wasn't discussed or addressed by the characters, either. They just ignored that possibility.
I figure Monokuma rules in whatever way would cause the most despair.
And let's face it, he probably *loved* that outcome.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
(again HUGE spoilers)
I dunno, that kind of bugs me. Feels like a miss to me.
Also...
(again again HUGE spoilers]
It is what it is. It's not a big deal I guess and I agree that it would have likely been dismissed. Just seemed out of character for the non-okumas to not even bring it up or entertain the thought. It would have made sense for it to be denied as a possibility by Monokuma.
Again, not a huge deal but whatevs.
I think the point is moot, really.
I'm not going to spoil the Chapter 6 stuff but it plays into what you're going through right now. Drez, you can safely read what's behind the tags.
It sounds like the above has kind of wrapped this up already, but some thoughts:
Shortly thereafter, Monokuma says two things that short circuit any chance of the group raising "hey, isn't Nagito still the killer?" because he certainly latches onto the plan:
"Nagito's killer is the one who made him breathe the poison!"
"However, he also prepared a mystery that couldn't be solved. As you solve mysteries and bolster your hope, a huge mystery comes along and slaps you in your faces... For those of you who believe there are no unsolvable mysteries, that is when you finally taste despair..."
Besides, if you start extrapolating out intent a bit, how Nagito dies is highly influenced by what the others chose to do. If no one throws the fire grenade, maybe Nagito dies from the fire, or self-inflicted blood loss, or doesn't die at all. He just staged an event that might have killed him, or would have certainly killed him if the group took one specific (even if it was orchestrated) action. So maybe Monokuma's right anyway. (Puhuhu!)
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
I think I let some temporary despair get to me.
Spoilers for Ch. 2 and 5:
I honestly forget the cases in DR1 and I'm going to have to play it over again, but it's at least consistent with itself in 2.
You're ultimately right, but it's a bit more complicated than that:
It's interesting to note that you get two images of the same scene in this narrative: the first, from Peko's narrative, is her holding the bloodied bat and Fuyuhiko grinning sinisterly; the second is during Fuyuhiko's narrative, and the scene is the same except his face is more panicked and shocked. This is an important distinction from Chapter 5 as Peko was never a tool and by all accounts was never intended to be part of the murder. Fuyuhiko's Mastermind role ended before the murder, ending when Peko intercedes on her own volition (as delusional or assumptive as it was). To this end, after all the cards are on the table, Peko admits that she herself chose to try to be the patsy for Fuyuhiko.
So yes, indeed, Killer trumps Mastermind in the end, but this situation is somewhat different as the crux of the discovery is that Peko acts of her own free will. Monokuma twists the knife a bit throughout the wrap up, eventually concluding there's no way "a human that meddlesome could ever be considered a tool" and calls Peko "the tool with a heart". However, it kind of seems like he could see either interpretation; he calls some facets of the argument "surprisingly interesting", but naturally he chose whatever interpretation maximized despair, which in this situation is most definitely executing Peko rather than everyone except Fuyuhiko. There is definitely an air to post-trial that Monokuma could have accepted Fuyuhiko was the actual killer.
God I'm glad I took screenshots of like half of this game.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
Also, the novel is pretty great. I didn't know what to expect going in but I figured it might just be a summary of the first game. Nope, instead it's a pretty great alternate reality take on the first game and developed a character that got absolutely nothing in that game really well, which just makes it suck that she's dead in canon.
Now I'm off to do Island Mode, which'll probably take me another freaking week.
It's actually the exact opposite. (Major Chapter 2 spoilers.)
In the end, it didn't matter. Monokuma knew that Fuyuhiko was not the mastermind and that Peko ultimately acted on her own. Nothing Fuyuhiko said would have changed Monokuma's interpretation of events.
As such, Chapter 2 explicitly confirms that the mastermind IS the blackened, but only if there is a true mastermind.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who took screenshots of things. I have tons.
But, I don't agree with your interpretation of Chapter 2 at all... Keep in mind I am close to finishing Chapter 6, but I am not 100% done yet.
Huge Chapter 2 and Chapter 5 spoilers and some Chapter 6 spoilers:
He is constrained by rules. This is reinforced in Danganronpa 1 and 2, and is even more plausible in DR2 considering what Monokuma represents in this game. Thus, he has no freedom to choose the "interpretation that maximizes despair." All he is able to do is guide the kids toward a path that maximizes despair, which is different. He omits facts, but he doesn't lie or distort them. He tries to get the group to misinterpret things, but his interpretation is always spot on because he is omniscient within the scope of the game.
Second, I think it was made pretty clear after the second trial that there was no other acceptable interpretation. Nagito (I believe) even asks Monokuma if he knew this outcome all along. To me, that's just exposition parrotry. In fact, throughout the climax all I could think was "this is all irrelevant. They already voted and it doesn't matter what Fuyuhiko says - his decision has no impact on the outcome here" and I believe that to be totally true. I don't think Monokuma had any freedom to reinterpret events because the events had already been determined and as we know, Monokuma simply observes events to complete accuracy and deals out punishment based on the trial group's correct or incorrect interpretation of those events. Monokuma doesn't actually have to interpret anything, and doesn't have the freedom to.
Third, I don't agree that killer trumps mastermind - it seems like it's explicitly reinforced multiple times throughout both games that the opposite is true - I'll have to dig through my screenshots but I'm pretty sure Monokuma explicitly says this at least once in DR2. The only situation in both games where it does NOT seem to be true is Chapter 5 of DR2. Which is why I'm a bit perplexed.
Anyway, I enjoy this debate. I know you thoroughly devoured DR1 too so I'm interested in your thoughts. And everyone else's of course.
In fact, it's very important because it defines and redeems Fuyuhiko's character.
I have to admit here that Fuyuhiko was one of my favorite characters and I had a sneaking suspicion that the writers were setting him up to be one of the main cast throughout the game. I was happy that he made the more altruistic choice. That's ALL that was about, though - showing the characters (and us, the audience) what choice Fuyuhiko would make. Putting Fuyuhiko on the spot had nothing to do with the outcome of the trial - it was a character building moment, Fuyuhiko's redemption.
I think that is even more powerful when you realize his "choice" actually had no impact on the conclusion as the events had already been determined and observed by Monokuma, the arbiter. Which I personally believe is confirmed in dialogue after Fuyuhiko makes his choice.
Yep, should be out the 28th.
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
DR1 all chapters + DR2 Ch. 1-5 spoilers, hoy! I don't think I spoiled any DR2 Ch. 6 but be careful.
The perhaps most concrete example of this conclusion that Monokuma's word trumps objective reality is the two ending nature of DR1 Ch. 5. Either choice in the Ch. 5 trial proceeds as if it is correct, because the entire trial is a farce. Outside of the general problem that no really, the entire trial is a farce, Monokuma gladly allows either student to be "correctly" identified as the blackened in order to keep the game going, as is stated in the events of Ch. 6 or suggested by the alternate ending.
So I just can't agree with an assumption that Monokuma represents only objective reality --- his actions throughout the series amount to an antagonist operating within some rules, but there's plenty of wiggle room there for him to supersede or ignore the rules as it suits him.
Interestingly many of the Monokuma Theaters play with this "alternative interpretation of reality" nature. Many of the monologues are little jabs at commonly accepted "right" truths, twisting interpretations of everyday thoughts and events into a more despair-y nature. Monokuma is the ultimate Devil's Advocate, really --- and he's in charge of the trials.
Your second point is I feel a consequence of the first so it's hard to directly address. :) I believe Monokuma had no reason to side with Peko, but for reasons of it not maximizing his own stake in the game, not by any constraint to objective reality. As far as I'm aware, the constraints on Monokuma's freedoms are very explicit and limited in scope, and basically limited to only the ones in the handbook. The entire killing game exists despite the school trip's rules, there's no real reason to assume any limitation outside of the ones explicitly mentioned as limitations on Monokuma himself, or those set up as killing game rules.
Your third point was something I wasn't going to mention but you opened it up so here goes. I chalked this all up to my poor memory, but I couldn't recall an explicit case where the Mastermind was the blackened when there was a different freely-willed Killer as the student. A Mastermind defense is somewhat rejected in Leon's trial, but the case determines that he went beyond the act of self-defense so it's a moot point anyway. That's the closest I can recall to a statement more explicit than Nagito's case on the subject of Mastermind vs. Killer.
An interesting exception is Celestia's case, since she manipulates Hifumi into killing Taka and then kills Hifumi to complete her set-up, but to be honest I don't recall some of the arguments in her case and can't quite recall where that line of reasoning goes. This case I feel might be the most useful Mastermind vs. Killer example, but it too is sullied because Taka's killer is also himself a victim, so it's not a pure example either and the entire case might be thrown out the window for purposes of solving Mastermind vs. Killer.
Anyway, I'd be interested to see if you find any screenshots that explicitly set up a "Mastermind trumps" interpretation, because I couldn't find anything on my cursory sifting through DR2 screens.
Edit: fixing a couple typos and clarifying one reply.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
Oooooh, an ALfheim Online game. I'm patiently somewhat interested.
I wonder if Project Alicization will get any adaptions or if those books will stay LN-only. It's a rather interesting direction the story moves in, but it also goes with a mostly new cast and male bff, and thus they lose much of their waifu-merchandising should the books receive anime or game adaptions.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
General DR2 impression-spoilers:
Same spoilers as Drez:
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
I like the Project Alicization arc because it had effectively a complete cast reset. I could see an anime based on that arc, but a game might be a bit more difficult.
@bss I'll reply to your post when I get home.
For the time being I'll post this (major full game spoilers):
*ahem*
*bow*
OK, I wasn't totally 100% right here and I was wrong about the traitor aspect I guess (depending on your definition of "traitor") but I was pretty close to at least a big part of it...back in Chapter 2.
From a few pages ago (huge chapter 5 spoilers).
I was like "oh shit, one of us is the killer."
2. Did Fuyuhiko kill Girl E? If so, was it before or after he became a part of Ultimate Despair?
3. If you think about it, that's seriously fucked up because ALL the girls PLUS Fuyuhiko were Ultimate Despair. So either Fuyuhiko's sister was killed and covered up by members of Ultimate Despair and he killed Girl E while a part of Ultimate Despair and they just decided to let it go, or his sister was killed and he killed Girl E before they all became Ultimate Despair and decided to let it go. Or the whole thing was bullshit, but I doubt that.
4. Who was Nagito? Just some asshole? How could both he and Naegi be the Ultimate Lucky Student? I still think he has something to do with Naegi. Naegi/Nagito sounds similar. And Nagito sounds like "negation." Plus he basically acts like a nega-Naegi. Like he applied the concepts of Ultimate Luck and Ultimate Hope in the exact opposite way Naegi would have.
5. Who was Nagito referring to when he said he "hated" someone ("her") while on the boat with Izuru? I thought Enoshima but I'm not sure how that makes sense.
6. Not a loose end, but I loved when Nagito says something about "time to pass the torch" in Chapter 1 (or 2, can't recall clearly).
Well, that's just my own take on the situation. That said, I think this murder incident in general is probably what lead those particular kids to becoming members of Ultimate Despair. So nah, I don't think they were despairs yet.
Again, this is just my thoughts on the matter, could be wrong!
Also, I get the impression that the despairs aren't really friends with each other for the most part.
4: The school chooses a lucky student every year. Nagito and Makoto are in different grades.
Nagito's name is an anagram of Makoto's name by the way "Nagito Komaeda" - "Naegi Makoto da" "I am Makoto Naegi" .
Obviously, He's not ACTUALLY Makoto, but his character is supposed to represent a person with the "lucky talent" who goes on a darker path. (Nagito partially ends up crazy because his "luck" really goes on the extreme end of things. In Island mode, for example, he's kinda terrified to do anything even REMOTELY dangerous.)
5- He was talking about Enoshima. Nagito is a lover of hope and Enoshima represents (and put into practice) the exact opposite of that on the world.
I just think it'd be too boring for a game. I mean the first three volumes aren't exactly game worthy and even the later parts are... Eh, alright? Frankly it feels a bit too generic as a setting. The story I really like but I just don't see it being something I'd want to play.
Unless I get to be a dragon knight and go around murdering innocents.
Ah, I don't think I explained myself well enough.
But! The whole point of the case was that there was a heavy swing about whether or not someone who -caused- a murder superseded someone who -actually performed- a murder. Peko killed Mahiru because of the situation Fuyuhiko created. In the end, though, Peko killed Mahiru and that's what mattered. Killer trumped.
Same situation with Nagito and Chiaki. Nagito put everything into motion, literally everything, but Chiaki was the one that dealt the killing blow. She didn't know it, but she killed him. Thus, in the same ruling as the Mahiru thing, the blackened was the person who actually did the killing, and not the one who made the killing happen.
At least, that's my take on it.
Ch 4 spoilers
PSN Hypacia
Xbox HypaciaMinnow
Discord Hypacia#0391
Can I just say that I fucking love how much Danganronpa 1 and 2 cover?
4. Basically. As someone else said, he's just a different year's Ultimate Lucky Student. Which I guess is just a step up from a Reserve Course student, since they're hand-picked? Anyway, I had a pet theory that Nagito knew about Naegi and emulated some twisted version of him, but the timeline just doesn't support it, because anything he would've known about Naegi would have been after school started, which he doesn't have access to in his memories unless he's special.
In the end, it's probably most likely that he was designed like that to fuck with the audience.
5. Yeah, that was Junko. I didn't really get to understand why because I kind of focused on the part where he cut her hand off her dead body and grafted it to his own arm in horror and nothing else about that scene really stuck.
I'm really -really- hoping that this next game clears up the confusion about the timeline of events.