Smash has a lot of objects moving around super fast with all kinds of effects plus the transforming stages, on top of the whole physics and fighting mechanics. Regular Pokemon fights don't even compare. They do look good, but they're slow as fuck, while Smash looks (or seems to look) at least as good and moves a billion times faster.
I'm saying that Pokemon runs choppy in 3D because it's rendering two really high quality models, too many polygons for the 3DS to handle. More RAM doesn't help in that situation unless they used it for LOD. More RAM does help with Smash because it has a lot going on that might require a wide range of models and textures to be called up at a moment's notice.
I'm not saying they couldn't have done Pokemon better, I'm saying that Smash's extra RAM allocation might not have provided the same benefit to them.
In fact I bet the reason Smash 3DS doesn't have the trophy photo mode is because it'd have a hard time rendering two or three of those trophies at once.
I'm not saying anything about RAM. Just that a system that can render 4 player Smash battles can definitely do a better framerate on Pokemon.
Smash has a lot of objects moving around super fast with all kinds of effects plus the transforming stages, on top of the whole physics and fighting mechanics. Regular Pokemon fights don't even compare. They do look good, but they're slow as fuck, while Smash looks (or seems to look) at least as good and moves a billion times faster.
I'm saying that Pokemon runs choppy in 3D because it's rendering two really high quality models, too many polygons for the 3DS to handle. More RAM doesn't help in that situation unless they used it for LOD. More RAM does help with Smash because it has a lot going on that might require a wide range of models and textures to be called up at a moment's notice.
I'm not saying they couldn't have done Pokemon better, I'm saying that Smash's extra RAM allocation might not have provided the same benefit to them.
In fact I bet the reason Smash 3DS doesn't have the trophy photo mode is because it'd have a hard time rendering two or three of those trophies at once.
I'm not saying anything about RAM. Just that a system that can render 4 player Smash battles can definitely do a better framerate on Pokemon.
Sure, that's a function of how detailed the models are. 4 player Smash would run choppy too if they used the pause models during gameplay.
I get the feeling that the Pokemon models are higher poly than the 3DS' resolution can properly show, in order to make it easier to carry them into future games. At least, that is what I tell myself when I cry about how I can't play my game in 3D.
Do you actually know how hi-poly those pokemon models are? because they definitely don't look nearly detailed enough to cause so much slowdown.
Yes actually, there's been some work done extracting the models from the game. The smallest ones tend to be 4900-5100, medium ones are 5200-6100 and the most detailed ones are up in the 7000 range. This is why sometimes there's almost no slowdown in 3D at all, and sometimes the system is really being taxed. It depends the participants in the battle. This also explains why specific Pokemon can swarm and many don't; the swarming ones have lower poly counts.
On the low end, Ditto is only 1947. On the high end, Volcanion is 12k. It's higher than most due to some of the animations it has, the hoop over its back comes apart into arms that fire at the enemy.
Skitty is one of the less detailed ones, at 5062.
At 1.7 gigs, Pokemon X and Y was one of the largest games on the 3DS at the time of its release (rivaled by RE: Revelations, which was around 3 GB I believe). Considering the system only comes with a 2 gig card, I expect they were hesitant to release anything much larger than that. LOD models could have alleviated some framerate issues, but would've also increased the file size even further, not to mention the extra work that would go into reducing 700+ Pokemon, testing them, making sure all the animations still looked right, etc. You can get some really weird deformation going on and if you want it to look right, often you need to go over them again by hand.
I would guess that a major motivation was to create models good enough to set a standard for a long while into the future and wouldn't need to be redone anytime soon, so they're a bit too much for the hardware at this point but can be carried forward to future generations. An example of them doing this previously is Pokemon Battle Revolution on the Wii, which still included some touched up models from the 64 games.
I completely skipped the GBA generation. I only have like five games. I never played any until I got my original DS. There wasn't much to play on the DS the first year it was out.
I played my Neo Geo Pocket Color for most of the GBA cycle.
I've gone quite a while without using my 3DS, now Fantasy Life and Persona Q are coming out within a month of each other. I'm also looking at that Phoenix Wright collection. Oh, there's also a new Harvest Moon. And Story of Seasons is supposedly Q4 2014. So yeah.
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Do you actually know how hi-poly those pokemon models are? because they definitely don't look nearly detailed enough to cause so much slowdown.
Yes actually, there's been some work done extracting the models from the game. The smallest ones tend to be 4900-5100, medium ones are 5200-6100 and the most detailed ones are up in the 7000 range. This is why sometimes there's almost no slowdown in 3D at all, and sometimes the system is really being taxed. It depends the participants in the battle. This also explains why specific Pokemon can swarm and many don't; the swarming ones have lower poly counts.
On the low end, Ditto is only 1947. On the high end, Volcanion is 12k. It's higher than most due to some of the animations it has, the hoop over its back comes apart into arms that fire at the enemy.
Skitty is one of the less detailed ones, at 5062.
At 1.7 gigs, Pokemon X and Y was one of the largest games on the 3DS at the time of its release (rivaled by RE: Revelations, which was around 3 GB I believe). Considering the system only comes with a 2 gig card, I expect they were hesitant to release anything much larger than that. LOD models could have alleviated some framerate issues, but would've also increased the file size even further, not to mention the extra work that would go into reducing 700+ Pokemon, testing them, making sure all the animations still looked right, etc. You can get some really weird deformation going on and if you want it to look right, often you need to go over them again by hand.
I would guess that a major motivation was to create models good enough to set a standard for a long while into the future and wouldn't need to be redone anytime soon, so they're a bit too much for the hardware at this point but can be carried forward to future generations. An example of them doing this previously is Pokemon Battle Revolution on the Wii, which still included some touched up models from the 64 games.
Whoa, the 3ds is really pitifully weak, then. Having a couple to six 12k polys on a low res screen stopped being an issue years and years ago. Even if it has to render it twice.
Whoa, the 3ds is really pitifully weak, then. Having a couple to six 12k polys on a low res screen stopped being an issue years and years ago. Even if it has to render it twice.
Polygons are its bottleneck. It can do some pretty good modern shader effects and texturing is decent, but polys are where it lags a bit. It's not an exact science but many people put it in the ballpark of the Game Cube, maybe slightly worse.
Not sure how to feel about Fantasy Life. It looks like a lot of fun, but has gotten pretty middling reviews :?
(Europonian here) I really recommend Fantasy Life. Production values are great. Lovely atmosphere. Story is simple, yet lovely. There is a lot of depth in the it/armor/weapon system.
If you've read the eurogamer review, please ignore the last paragraph and add two points to their grade.Are there any cons? Sure.
Inter job quests don't exit. If you start life A, then start job B, the npc's that you've met at job A will treat you like a job B character.
Combat is not really deep, but I didn't get the game for combat in the first place.
I tried so hard to like AC, but couldn't. Fantasy life scratches the life sim itch for me perfectly.
Not sure how to feel about Fantasy Life. It looks like a lot of fun, but has gotten pretty middling reviews :?
(Europonian here) I really recommend Fantasy Life. Production values are great. Lovely atmosphere. Story is simple, yet lovely. There is a lot of depth in the it/armor/weapon system.
If you've read the eurogamer review, please ignore the last paragraph and add two points to their grade.Are there any cons? Sure.
Inter job quests don't exit. If you start life A, then start job B, the npc's that you've met at job A will treat you like a job B character.
Combat is not really deep, but I didn't get the game for combat in the first place.
I tried so hard to like AC, but couldn't. Fantasy life scratches the life sim itch for me perfectly.
Do you mean to say that if you're a Miner you're allowed to start Cook quests and the NPCs will treat you like a cook?
I was sort of under the impression that you go out as one of the gathering lives and then can switch to the manufacturing lives to make things with the materials you gathered, and then as one of the "questing" lives you can utilize those items. So with the inter-job quest things, you mean you can do what I say, but there are no quests that utilize this?
I'm not saying any of these things are problems, just trying to understand.
Not sure how to feel about Fantasy Life. It looks like a lot of fun, but has gotten pretty middling reviews :?
(Europonian here) I really recommend Fantasy Life. Production values are great. Lovely atmosphere. Story is simple, yet lovely. There is a lot of depth in the it/armor/weapon system.
If you've read the eurogamer review, please ignore the last paragraph and add two points to their grade.Are there any cons? Sure.
Inter job quests don't exit. If you start life A, then start job B, the npc's that you've met at job A will treat you like a job B character.
Combat is not really deep, but I didn't get the game for combat in the first place.
I tried so hard to like AC, but couldn't. Fantasy life scratches the life sim itch for me perfectly.
Do you mean to say that if you're a Miner you're allowed to start Cook quests and the NPCs will treat you like a cook?
I was sort of under the impression that you go out as one of the gathering lives and then can switch to the manufacturing lives to make things with the materials you gathered, and then as one of the "questing" lives you can utilize those items. So with the inter-job quest things, you mean you can do what I say, but there are no quests that utilize this?
I'm not saying any of these things are problems, just trying to understand.
You can still use all of job A skills after switching to job B. All npc's will treat you like job B tough. For example if you start as a forester, then switch to carpenter you can gather all your wood(forester) , but all quests and npc's will respond to you as a carpenter. It's a minor issue really, but one I did notice and it was left out of most reviews.
To 'level up' each Life, you have to complete challenges related to that Life. Some of these can be completed by any Life, others only by that specific Life.
Woodcutters, for example, have challenges that are basically 'Cut down X Oak trees'. But you don't have to cut them all down while being a Woodcutter, you can also do so while being a Paladin because you never forget how axes work. And then there are challenges like 'Cut down this Great Magic Tree as a Woodcutter' and then it really does only count if you're a Woodcutter when you cut down that tree.
To 'level up' each Life, you have to complete challenges related to that Life. Some of these can be completed by any Life, others only by that specific Life.
Woodcutters, for example, have challenges that are basically 'Cut down X Oak trees'. But you don't have to cut them all down while being a Woodcutter, you can also do so while being a Paladin because you never forget how axes work. And then there are challenges like 'Cut down this Great Magic Tree as a Woodcutter' and then it really does only count if you're a Woodcutter when you cut down that tree.
Not quite, you only have to turn in the bounty as a woodcutter to complete the challenge.
Fantasy Life is one of those games that has design issues that lower review scores, but is a lot of fun to play anyway. The biggest design issue for me is that the main storyline is almost completely disconnected from the meat of the game. In one way, that's cool because you can do the main storyline as any Life, but on the other hand, you could play right through the main story and finish it without having built up your skills at all. There's no need to use any of the skills you learn in any Life to complete it. It feels a bit like playing two different games, the one in which the main story happens and the one in which you use your Life/Lives to do neat shit in a fantasy world.
In the end I don't care, because the game is really fun, but it's one of those things that I felt like I had to discuss and ding the game for in my critical review. I suspect other reviewers faced a similar dilemna, and I know at least one for whom that separation actually caused him to dislike the game.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
I can't see the point of seasonal themes myself. It's fine during the season. But using a Halloween theme in February seems terribly out of place to me.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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I vaguely remember needing the poop for certain alchemical concoctions. So use the poop, then sell the used poop. That's the way to get stinking rich.
Or just stinking.
I'm not saying anything about RAM. Just that a system that can render 4 player Smash battles can definitely do a better framerate on Pokemon.
Sure, that's a function of how detailed the models are. 4 player Smash would run choppy too if they used the pause models during gameplay.
Let's Plays of Japanese Games
Yes actually, there's been some work done extracting the models from the game. The smallest ones tend to be 4900-5100, medium ones are 5200-6100 and the most detailed ones are up in the 7000 range. This is why sometimes there's almost no slowdown in 3D at all, and sometimes the system is really being taxed. It depends the participants in the battle. This also explains why specific Pokemon can swarm and many don't; the swarming ones have lower poly counts.
On the low end, Ditto is only 1947. On the high end, Volcanion is 12k. It's higher than most due to some of the animations it has, the hoop over its back comes apart into arms that fire at the enemy.
Skitty is one of the less detailed ones, at 5062.
At 1.7 gigs, Pokemon X and Y was one of the largest games on the 3DS at the time of its release (rivaled by RE: Revelations, which was around 3 GB I believe). Considering the system only comes with a 2 gig card, I expect they were hesitant to release anything much larger than that. LOD models could have alleviated some framerate issues, but would've also increased the file size even further, not to mention the extra work that would go into reducing 700+ Pokemon, testing them, making sure all the animations still looked right, etc. You can get some really weird deformation going on and if you want it to look right, often you need to go over them again by hand.
I would guess that a major motivation was to create models good enough to set a standard for a long while into the future and wouldn't need to be redone anytime soon, so they're a bit too much for the hardware at this point but can be carried forward to future generations. An example of them doing this previously is Pokemon Battle Revolution on the Wii, which still included some touched up models from the 64 games.
I play my GBA games on a micro.
I played my Neo Geo Pocket Color for most of the GBA cycle.
Same. Though I do keep my DS Lite around just in case I want a slightly bigger screen to play them on.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
PSN Hypacia
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Whoa, the 3ds is really pitifully weak, then. Having a couple to six 12k polys on a low res screen stopped being an issue years and years ago. Even if it has to render it twice.
It'll be up when the eShop updates, noon Eastern/9AM Pacific.
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Polygons are its bottleneck. It can do some pretty good modern shader effects and texturing is decent, but polys are where it lags a bit. It's not an exact science but many people put it in the ballpark of the Game Cube, maybe slightly worse.
Like 12 hours or something till Fantasy Life release!
MAGICIAN OR MINER I CAN'T DECIIIIIIIIIIIIDE
Porqué no los dos?
thank you
If you're a Cook, you can make them yourself!
Shipping arrived early or eshop?
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Shipping arrived early I guess. I thought I was behind everyone else.
They can't stand each other, I guess.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
(Europonian here) I really recommend Fantasy Life. Production values are great. Lovely atmosphere. Story is simple, yet lovely. There is a lot of depth in the it/armor/weapon system.
If you've read the eurogamer review, please ignore the last paragraph and add two points to their grade.Are there any cons? Sure.
Inter job quests don't exit. If you start life A, then start job B, the npc's that you've met at job A will treat you like a job B character.
Combat is not really deep, but I didn't get the game for combat in the first place.
I tried so hard to like AC, but couldn't. Fantasy life scratches the life sim itch for me perfectly.
Do you mean to say that if you're a Miner you're allowed to start Cook quests and the NPCs will treat you like a cook?
I was sort of under the impression that you go out as one of the gathering lives and then can switch to the manufacturing lives to make things with the materials you gathered, and then as one of the "questing" lives you can utilize those items. So with the inter-job quest things, you mean you can do what I say, but there are no quests that utilize this?
I'm not saying any of these things are problems, just trying to understand.
Wii: 4521 1146 5179 1333 Pearl: 3394 4642 8367 HG: 1849 3913 3132
You can still use all of job A skills after switching to job B. All npc's will treat you like job B tough. For example if you start as a forester, then switch to carpenter you can gather all your wood(forester) , but all quests and npc's will respond to you as a carpenter. It's a minor issue really, but one I did notice and it was left out of most reviews.
Woodcutters, for example, have challenges that are basically 'Cut down X Oak trees'. But you don't have to cut them all down while being a Woodcutter, you can also do so while being a Paladin because you never forget how axes work. And then there are challenges like 'Cut down this Great Magic Tree as a Woodcutter' and then it really does only count if you're a Woodcutter when you cut down that tree.
Not quite, you only have to turn in the bounty as a woodcutter to complete the challenge.
PSN Hypacia
Xbox HypaciaMinnow
Discord Hypacia#0391
That sounds deliciously like a 10pm release for me.
PSN Hypacia
Xbox HypaciaMinnow
Discord Hypacia#0391
In the end I don't care, because the game is really fun, but it's one of those things that I felt like I had to discuss and ding the game for in my critical review. I suspect other reviewers faced a similar dilemna, and I know at least one for whom that separation actually caused him to dislike the game.