Triple AAA games are absolutely contingent on dlc purchase
It's how they have kept the cost at 60 dollars
Is this something Ninten—no that's not a fair question, fucking of course they haven't
Is this something other developers, especially Japanese ones, have talked about? I understand it makes the model more sustainable, but I didn't understand it to be necessary for the existence of the genre. I mean, some DLC can cost as much to make as the main game in terms of its assets and content (like the Shovel Knight DLC, and I cna't imagine how expensive the Witcher 3 DLC was)
The assets and content may be expensive, but it's built on an underlying engine and gameplay system that's already been built, which is a very significant cost of development.
That's true, but asset creation and tweaking of new systems can also be a super significant investment! Plague of Shadows was more expensive to produce than Shovel Knight, and Specter of TOrment might be even moreso?
But the point is that DLC of a certain kind isn't pure pro—
No one's saying they're pure profit. And using Shovel Knight as an example is super missing the mark on this discussion because they're not a AAA game, their development was crowdfunded and their release method driven by promises made during that campaign. It has almost no applicability to how AAA budgeting works.
Think of it this way--a lot of games are sold on thin margins or even at a loss, with the intent that DLC built off the pre-existing game base can be sold at higher margins afterwards to make up for the gap. This is very common these days because the budget expectations for AAA are pretty out of control compared to the $60 price point.
So right now, EA's whole strategy is pretty seriously built around the idea that sales overall are going down so you need to get more out of the people that ARE buying
That doesn't, to be fair, 100% mean these games wouldn't exist without DLC, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are absolutely supplementing dev costs with DLC money and that they wouldn't be able to do as much with these games if they weren't selling it
This is a damn good chart but I think it's also a little off the mark, since it's a chart about digital revenue and digital sales of EA games are often going to be heavily discounted through Origin, right? This makes a lot of sense if they're expecting you to buy DLC for a game that's selling for over half off
It always depends on what they're going for with DLC and how robust the base game is. The parts of Shovel Knight that persists between game modes is fairly small because each character controls radically differently and those tight controls are what makes that game good. BotW on the other hand will likely have you play as Link or someone who controls like Link and they can put new assets in new configurations that will work within the existing engine without having to ensure the gameplay feels good because they've already done that.
So right now, EA's whole strategy is pretty seriously built around the idea that sales overall are going down so you need to get more out of the people that ARE buying
That doesn't, to be fair, 100% mean these games wouldn't exist without DLC, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are absolutely supplementing dev costs with DLC money and that they wouldn't be able to do as much with these games if they weren't selling it
This is a damn good chart but I think it's also a little off the mark, since it's a chart about digital revenue and digital sales of EA games are often going to be heavily discounted through Origin, right? This makes a lot of sense if they're expecting you to buy DLC for a game that's selling for over half off
Okay but why do you think they're getting discounted so heavily? Because sales are down. Businesses don't discount products unless they're failing to get the market penetration they're expecting.
Nintendo rarely discounts their software, which means they're EXTRA dependent on hitting their sales figures--something that gets harder to do all the time in the current market. So it's really easy to extrapolate that this season pass is at least a hedged bet on generating additional revenue for the game to give them more leeway with expected sales figures.
It's really no one's fault but theirs that they need DLC to make a profit.
The overspending in the development of modern games has gotten kind of ridiculous. Like, to the point that games are sometimes required to sell upwards of 5-8 million copies to not be considered a total failure.
Jim Sterling has a few talks about that over the years in his Jimquisition series.
OK forget for a minute about this argument, it's worth pursuing but right this second I don't care about that nearly as much as I care about a tacit standing agreement to not post spoilers in this thread
Are we, as group, cool about not posting leaked information about the game in this thread?
As long as they're behind spoiler tags and labeled in some way, I have no problem with them being posted. I won't be reading them, but it's easy enough to avoid if people use the system that was built for it.
As long as they're behind spoiler tags and labeled in some way, I have no problem with them being posted. I won't be reading them, but it's easy enough to avoid if people use the system that was built for it.
I don't want them at all because then you will get full pages of nothing but spoiler tag posts from the people that don't care
OK forget for a minute about this argument, it's worth pursuing but right this second I don't care about that nearly as much as I care about a tacit standing agreement to not post spoilers in this thread
Are we, as group, cool about not posting leaked information about the game in this thread?
Dude
I get that you care about spoilers
But no, I'm sorry, there is a spoiler tag button
I promise to put a big ol spoiler warning and put it behind spoilers
But asking people to not post them at all because you don't want to have to summon up the willpower to not click the spoiler button is unreasonable
As long as they're behind spoiler tags and labeled in some way, I have no problem with them being posted. I won't be reading them, but it's easy enough to avoid if people use the system that was built for it.
I don't want them at all because then you will get full pages of nothing but spoiler tag posts from the people that don't care
And? You just don't read those posts. It's super easy not to read a post when you have to actively click a button to see its content. The whole reason spoiler tags exist in the first place is to solve this exact problem. It's a public forum--everyone deserves to have the conversations they want.
Like, I'm super anti-spoiler and I don't see why this is a problem.
I'm not asking for a hard rule where Tube comes in and slaps anyone who posts spoilers from the game, and I don't think anyone else is
It's strictly a courtesy that's being asked for here. There are lots of spaces to have spoiler conversation for a game that's not out for two more weeks, and I would deeply appreciate it if those conversations were had somewhere that's not here, in this specific thread, because someone always fucks up the spoiler tags (among other reasons).
I mean, if your concern is people NOT FOLLOWING PROPER POSTING ETTIQUETTE, then a blanket "no spoilers" rule isn't going to help because you're dealing with people who don't care about the rules.
I just feel the spoiler debate cuts both ways. It's shitty posting behavior to spoil people on new things in a public forum but it's equally shitty posting behavior for a subset of the community to try and dictate what everyone is and isn't allowed to talk about. The spoiler system exists to bridge that gap.
If you're that concerned about it, avoiding the thread altogether is the only way to be safe no matter what, because you physically CAN'T stop people from breaking the rules, established or communal, so there's always a risk
But whatever, I've already unsubscribed from the thread
Wow did you see the leaks too? Because
I have not actually seen any, it is a ruse
By the way dear reader I am also cool with you using spoilers for jokes in the middle of everyone using them for spoilers. Honestly I think people who go into a thread on a topic while knowing immenent spoilers abound are straight up asking to be spoiled, even if everyone has made a blood pact not to do it
Wyborn's not trying to dictate anything, he's asking nicely
He's asking nicely for us all to agree to not talk about a wide swath of on-topic conversation--conversation that some people want to have. That's politely trying to dictate the conversation.
Also I've been actively looking for spoilers since -Tal posted that and haven't been able to find anything so I think you're probably safe for a while at least
Also I've been actively looking for spoilers since -Tal posted that and haven't been able to find anything so I think you're probably safe for a while at least
Some fella in the gt thread saying the same thing, that potentially it's a hoax
Were I Nintendo I would not be able to keep myself from making an unassuming twitch account and start playing the demo they've showed a million times, some message on the screen like "since there may be other leaked copies I'm not reading chat" and just spend hours not even attempting to do anything new, just messing around with physics and setting grass on fire or whatever
Were I Nintendo I would not be able to keep myself from making an unassuming twitch account and start playing the demo they've showed a million times, some message on the screen like "since there may be other leaked copies I'm not reading chat" and just spend hours not even attempting to do anything new, just messing around with physics and setting grass on fire or whatever
I mean, not even an unassuming one--that seems like the exact sort of thing Treehouse would do.
I'm not asking for a hard rule where Tube comes in and slaps anyone who posts spoilers from the game, and I don't think anyone else is
It's strictly a courtesy that's being asked for here. There are lots of spaces to have spoiler conversation for a game that's not out for two more weeks, and I would deeply appreciate it if those conversations were had somewhere that's not here, in this specific thread, because someone always fucks up the spoiler tags (among other reasons).
I mean, clearly labeled spoiler tags are kind of the most anyone can reasonably ask
and you're right that historically this forum is the worst about trying to be clever and talk around spoilers so if there are copies in the wild then this thread, the nintendo thread, and proooobably the video game mega thread podcast thread are all worth staying out of
The idea is that with some no-name account people would mistake it for the leaked full version
Too bad the streamer just can't get past these bokoblins and is too determined to walk around them
Edit ^oh dang it's real
Oh, gotcha. A false flag leak. Yeah I've wondered why that doesn't happen more often. I've heard stories of devs "leaking" torrents of their games with code removed to prevent them from working past a "demo" area, in order to drown fully working pirated copies and thought that was a really clever way to approach it.
For the sake of clarity, I am not attempting to dictate the course of the conversation here. I am asking for the people in this thread who want to discuss full-game spoilers in this thread, regardless of if they intend to play the game to completion or not, to wait until the game's release to post full-game spoilers. By all means discuss them to your heart's content, but I would appreciate it immensely that if you do so in this thread it at least wait until people in the thread are able to actually play the game and might reasonably expect wild spoilers to be trundling about.
That's the last I'll ask of it. If that's too much to ask, I will understand.
For the sake of clarity, I am not attempting to dictate the course of the conversation here. I am asking for the people in this thread who want to discuss full-game spoilers in this thread, regardless of if they intend to play the game to completion or not, to wait until the game's release to post full-game spoilers. By all means discuss them to your heart's content, but I would appreciate it immensely that if you do so in this thread it at least wait until people in the thread are able to actually play the game and might reasonably expect wild spoilers to be trundling about.
That's the last I'll ask of it. If that's too much to ask, I will understand.
so you aren't trying to dictate the course of conversation, except don't discuss it in this thread? That's what that means, dude
Again, noone's going to post open spoilers and if they do they're breaking the rules, but the spoiler tag system exists so that people who want to talk about something can. Asking people who want to discuss it to not do so, even under spoiler tags, until x criteria is met IS dictating the conversation, no matter how nicely.
Dictation implies there's an imperative of some kind. This isn't one, nor has it been from the beginning. A request and dictation can be equated, but I think it is disingenuous to do so.
But that was the last I intended to ask, and of course you guys are right that the only way to be sure is to not be in the thread. So, the thread is yours, and I'll see you guys on the other side.
It's weird when someone asks nicely if everyone as a group is willing to agree to something and the people who disagree accuse him of trying to be a dictator rather than politely disagreeing.
"there's a spoiler button" is some weak shit when people have demonstrated time and time again that they're terrible about spoiling context clues
"I can't believe Darth Vader was Luke's <spoiler>father</spoiler> all along!" helps nobody and it absolutely, absolutely happens when conversations about spoilers drift on long enough
"there's a spoiler button" is some weak shit when people have demonstrated time and time again that they're terrible about spoiling context clues
"I can't believe Darth Vader was Luke's <spoiler>father</spoiler> all along!" helps nobody and it absolutely, absolutely happens when conversations about spoilers drift on long enough
"there's a spoiler button" is some weak shit when people have demonstrated time and time again that they're terrible about spoiling context clues
"I can't believe Darth Vader was Luke's <spoiler>father</spoiler> all along!" helps nobody and it absolutely, absolutely happens when conversations about spoilers drift on long enough
but it's not like we can tell ya'll what to do
I mean, if people aren't going to use spoilers correctly, they're also not going to respect requests not to talk about spoilers. "People might misuse this feature so nobody can use it" is some weak-ass argument.
Posts
No one's saying they're pure profit. And using Shovel Knight as an example is super missing the mark on this discussion because they're not a AAA game, their development was crowdfunded and their release method driven by promises made during that campaign. It has almost no applicability to how AAA budgeting works.
Think of it this way--a lot of games are sold on thin margins or even at a loss, with the intent that DLC built off the pre-existing game base can be sold at higher margins afterwards to make up for the gap. This is very common these days because the budget expectations for AAA are pretty out of control compared to the $60 price point.
This is a damn good chart but I think it's also a little off the mark, since it's a chart about digital revenue and digital sales of EA games are often going to be heavily discounted through Origin, right? This makes a lot of sense if they're expecting you to buy DLC for a game that's selling for over half off
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
Okay but why do you think they're getting discounted so heavily? Because sales are down. Businesses don't discount products unless they're failing to get the market penetration they're expecting.
Nintendo rarely discounts their software, which means they're EXTRA dependent on hitting their sales figures--something that gets harder to do all the time in the current market. So it's really easy to extrapolate that this season pass is at least a hedged bet on generating additional revenue for the game to give them more leeway with expected sales figures.
The overspending in the development of modern games has gotten kind of ridiculous. Like, to the point that games are sometimes required to sell upwards of 5-8 million copies to not be considered a total failure.
Jim Sterling has a few talks about that over the years in his Jimquisition series.
Here's one example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKpgfBJ708A
Are we, as group, cool about not posting leaked information about the game in this thread?
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
I don't want them at all because then you will get full pages of nothing but spoiler tag posts from the people that don't care
Dude
I get that you care about spoilers
But no, I'm sorry, there is a spoiler tag button
I promise to put a big ol spoiler warning and put it behind spoilers
But asking people to not post them at all because you don't want to have to summon up the willpower to not click the spoiler button is unreasonable
And? You just don't read those posts. It's super easy not to read a post when you have to actively click a button to see its content. The whole reason spoiler tags exist in the first place is to solve this exact problem. It's a public forum--everyone deserves to have the conversations they want.
Like, I'm super anti-spoiler and I don't see why this is a problem.
It's strictly a courtesy that's being asked for here. There are lots of spaces to have spoiler conversation for a game that's not out for two more weeks, and I would deeply appreciate it if those conversations were had somewhere that's not here, in this specific thread, because someone always fucks up the spoiler tags (among other reasons).
Because I KNOW I'm gonna see something like
And now I've seen enough to figure it out
But whatever, I've already unsubscribed from the thread
I just feel the spoiler debate cuts both ways. It's shitty posting behavior to spoil people on new things in a public forum but it's equally shitty posting behavior for a subset of the community to try and dictate what everyone is and isn't allowed to talk about. The spoiler system exists to bridge that gap.
If you're that concerned about it, avoiding the thread altogether is the only way to be safe no matter what, because you physically CAN'T stop people from breaking the rules, established or communal, so there's always a risk
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
Wow did you see the leaks too? Because
By the way dear reader I am also cool with you using spoilers for jokes in the middle of everyone using them for spoilers. Honestly I think people who go into a thread on a topic while knowing immenent spoilers abound are straight up asking to be spoiled, even if everyone has made a blood pact not to do it
He's asking nicely for us all to agree to not talk about a wide swath of on-topic conversation--conversation that some people want to have. That's politely trying to dictate the conversation.
Some fella in the gt thread saying the same thing, that potentially it's a hoax
I mean, not even an unassuming one--that seems like the exact sort of thing Treehouse would do.
Too bad the streamer just can't get past these bokoblins and is too determined to walk around them
Edit ^oh dang it's real
and you're right that historically this forum is the worst about trying to be clever and talk around spoilers so if there are copies in the wild then this thread, the nintendo thread, and proooobably the video game mega thread podcast thread are all worth staying out of
Oh, gotcha. A false flag leak. Yeah I've wondered why that doesn't happen more often. I've heard stories of devs "leaking" torrents of their games with code removed to prevent them from working past a "demo" area, in order to drown fully working pirated copies and thought that was a really clever way to approach it.
That's the last I'll ask of it. If that's too much to ask, I will understand.
so you aren't trying to dictate the course of conversation, except don't discuss it in this thread? That's what that means, dude
Again, noone's going to post open spoilers and if they do they're breaking the rules, but the spoiler tag system exists so that people who want to talk about something can. Asking people who want to discuss it to not do so, even under spoiler tags, until x criteria is met IS dictating the conversation, no matter how nicely.
But that was the last I intended to ask, and of course you guys are right that the only way to be sure is to not be in the thread. So, the thread is yours, and I'll see you guys on the other side.
A DVD and CD set of the Zelda 30th anniversary Tokyo Philharmonic performance is now available
I might pick this up since I've never been able to attend any of the Zelda symphony performances
dailydot.com/bazaar/zelda-30th-anniversary/
This has been a very expensive Zelda purchasing year
I'll probably see you guys in here (or the next thread) after I finish the game! Byeeeeee
Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227
My ACNH Wishlists | My ACNH Catalog
pretty weird
I thought this was an @OmnipotentBagel post when I initially read it.
Cause that's a Joel-ass pun.
"I can't believe Darth Vader was Luke's <spoiler>father</spoiler> all along!" helps nobody and it absolutely, absolutely happens when conversations about spoilers drift on long enough
but it's not like we can tell ya'll what to do
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Gone Home.....
Brothers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I mean, if people aren't going to use spoilers correctly, they're also not going to respect requests not to talk about spoilers. "People might misuse this feature so nobody can use it" is some weak-ass argument.